Questions from a New Hero

[New Hero]

Hello there;

I have a copy of HeroSystem 5th Edition-Revised (hereafter referred to as The Book) as well as Hero Designer v 2.37 (hereafter referred to as HD) on my PC. I must admit that I am a little nervous about posting my questions.

You see, I have posted on the boards of some other games, and been called a moron by the Moderator (not to mention what the other posters on the boards called me) because I could not figure something out. It has left me a bit gun shy about asking questions. That being said (well, typed actually), I hope that you will forgive my n00b questions.

We use the 200 pt + 150 pt Disad system to create our characters with a 60 point Active Cost Limit on all Powers, etc . . .

Question #1: I wish to create my character using the Large Size Template (p575 in The Book, and hereafter referred to as the LST). She will be 100 RL inches (not game inches) tall, and weigh probably about 750 lbs. When I create a LST Prefab on HD, it costs 51 pts rather than the 47 pt cost in The Book. Do the Characteristic Bonuses from the Large Size Template (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +5 PRE, and +3 ED) all have the No Figured Characteristics Limitation on them? If not, what am I doing wrong?

Question #2: The above character (Let us call her Allura, for the time being) has 60 STR (this includes the +15 bonus for the LST), 20 CON, and 20 BODY (again including the LST bonus). Using the formula: STUN = (BODY + (STR/2) + (CON/2)), the value of STUN should be 60 (20+30+10). On the HD, it gives me a STUN value of 63! Again, did I miss something?

Question #3: Allura is (obviously) from another world. Her Homeworld is (for all intents and purposes) like Earth (climate, etc . . .). Would her Survival and Tracking skills cross-over to Earth? I mean, the wind is the wind, animal tracks are animal tracks, etc . . .

Question #4: I wish to create a Heavy Longbow for Allura. Should it have a level of Growth (Always On) to simulate being a bigger Heavy Longbow than any used on Earth? It requires a 45 STR just to lift it, and a 55 STR to properly use it. It also does not use normal arrows (Earth arrows are not big enough). I would like to figure out how to simulate that whenever Allura pulls back on the bowstring, an energy arrow appears that must be used immediately or it dissipates. I know that it would be an RKA (probably 4d6 or so) with a Special Effect of Cosmic Energy or would an Energy Blast work better?

I nervously await your answers, and I have more questions, but this will get the ball rolling.

[aylwin13]

Welcome aboard, N H. Don't worry about being called names here. Ain't gonna happen. You can expect to get numerous posts (fairly soon I would think) with answers to your questions. I'd offer some, but I'm at work and don't have my stuff here.

[ghost-angel]

Hello there;

I have a copy of HeroSystem 5th Edition-Revised (hereafter referred to as The Book) as well as Hero Designer v 2.37 (hereafter referred to as HD) on my PC. I must admit that I am a little nervous about posting my questions.

You see, I have posted on the boards of some other games, and been called a moron by the Moderator (not to mention what the other posters on the boards called me) because I could not figure something out. It has left me a bit gun shy about asking questions. That being said (well, typed actually), I hope that you will forgive my n00b questions.

Greetings, welcome to Hero.
We will not make fun of you for asking questions. In fact, we like being asked questions.


We use the 200 pt + 150 pt Disad system to create our characters with a 60 point Active Cost Limit on all Powers, etc . . .

Question #1: I wish to create my character using the Large Size Template (p575 in The Book, and hereafter referred to as the LST). She will be 100 RL inches (not game inches) tall, and weigh probably about 750 lbs. When I create a LST Prefab on HD, it costs 51 pts rather than the 47 pt cost in The Book. Do the Characteristic Bonuses from the Large Size Template (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +5 PRE, and +3 ED) all have the No Figured Characteristics Limitation on them? If not, what am I doing wrong?

The cost in the book does something silly.
It subtracts the Disadvantage from the Total Cost of the Powers. This is just really bad form, and it's a reprint series of tables from the Bestiary from before the listed things more accurately.

The Powers cost 51 Points, and you have a 5 Point Disadvantage to place on the Character.

You are doing nothing wrong, just a victim of bad presentation.


Question #2: The above character (Let us call her Allura, for the time being) has 60 STR (this includes the +15 bonus for the LST), 20 CON, and 20 BODY (again including the LST bonus). Using the formula: STUN = (BODY + (STR/2) + (CON/2)), the value of STUN should be 60 (20+30+10). On the HD, it gives me a STUN value of 63! Again, did I miss something?

I'd have to look at the HDC file in question, but I would make sure that the Characteristics are in fact 60/20/20 as you stated.

I don't know how you purchased the Characteristics but I suggest simply buying them all under the Characteristics Tab, and none under the Powers Tab.


Question #3: Allura is (obviously) from another world. Her Homeworld is (for all intents and purposes) like Earth (climate, etc . . .). Would her Survival and Tracking skills cross-over to Earth? I mean, the wind is the wind, animal tracks are animal tracks, etc . . .

They may or may not cross over - depending on the type of campaign. Some wouldn't bat an eye at crossing over. Some would get into the realism of it all; tracking depends partly on environment, partly on knowing the prey but it generally might transfer easily. Survival, on the other hand, is all about knowing the Flora and Fauna of the area and while an alien planet may be similar, it may have radically different flora and fauna.


Question #4: I wish to create a Heavy Longbow for Allura. Should it have a level of Growth (Always On) to simulate being a bigger Heavy Longbow than any used on Earth? It requires a 45 STR just to lift it, and a 55 STR to properly use it. It also does not use normal arrows (Earth arrows are not big enough). I would like to figure out how to simulate that whenever Allura pulls back on the bowstring, an energy arrow appears that must be used immediately or it dissipates. I know that it would be an RKA (probably 4d6 or so) with a Special Effect of Cosmic Energy or would an Energy Blast work better?

RKA or Energy Blast, depending on how much damage you really want to do. As for the bow itself - this is just Special Effects, I would call it a Personal Focus (meaning only the Character can utilize the Focus) and be done with that part.

As for the Energy Arrow that must be used immediately, all that really removes is the possibility of the Cover Maneuver. Again, this is just the Special Effect of the RKA or EB (whichever you choose to use).


I nervously await your answers, and I have more questions, but this will get the ball rolling.

No need to be nervous. We only bite upon request.

[ghost-angel]

To answer your question regarding the Large Template more broadly - you have to understand what that 'template' is really doing and suggesting.

First, a character's Size in Hero is mostly a Special Effect. Various Powers and Disadvantages are taken to reflect the idea of someone being taller/larger than normal.

Going with that, the Size Templates are mostly a series of guidelines on creating these characters. In a general sense, a Large character will have a STR of 25 (+15 STR over the 10 Base you get for free). But if your Character is strong, then you have whatever STR you decide on. What you're saying is the Special Effect of the Characters immense STR is "Being Larger Than Normal"

On the flipside, to reflect some of the aspects of a Large Size a character might have when interacting with the Base Size (2m tall) a Disadvantage can be taken; the Physical Limitation listed in the Size Template.

When you combine all these factors in and then claim "My Character is over eight feet tall" you now have a Large Character.

Going beyond that concept - it is entirely possible to create a Large Character with LESS Strength than the Template suggests. If Twig People are very tall (12 feet) but comparatively weak (STR 13) to the Hill Giants (10 feet tall, 30 STR) then that's fine too. And both creatures would likely take the same Disadvantage "Tall/Large Character."

The long and short is that the Templates are merely Guidelines for the concept, and not something you should take as set in stone. This is HERO we Create what you have mind, not from a list of stuff.

[Beast]

If you can get HD3 it current to all that has been put out so far HD2 does not have all thye stiff from THE BOOK

well I have no plans on calling you a moron
but the I'm not the moderator

#2 the +15 str from growth does not affect the figured stats
do the character up WITHOUTwhat you get from growth then add in the extras from growth the season with more character points till done to your taste

you can also go and simulate a large size by just buying stretching and knock back resistance(0 end perisistant always on,no noncombat stretching if they are big all the time if not the add only in hero id)
you just need +1 " on the stretching and -3" knockback resistance to simulate the weight

skills carryover
tracking would carry over
knowledge of WHAT you are tracking is something different

Survival would be hard since you have no knowledge of the flora and fawna
water would be easy,most animals can be eaten especially if cooked
plants and what small carnivores(poisonous snakes and insects)to avoid again knowledge needed
(In this case I would have you reduce you survival skill to 11-and let you buy them up with time)

the bow
if your 40 str is at 0 end cost then it would be no problem to carry it all day
I'd treat it as a wand that requires 2 hands to use(no need for a quiver)
the weight of it can be an advantage to you(hardly anybody could steal it)
maybe call it an OAF and call it a personal focus(need to know the secret way to use it or it was made just for you) and don't worry about the weight
or call it an OIF that you can summon to your hand if it is in sight


Hello there;

I have a copy of HeroSystem 5th Edition-Revised (hereafter referred to as The Book) as well as Hero Designer v 2.37 (hereafter referred to as HD) on my PC. I must admit that I am a little nervous about posting my questions.

You see, I have posted on the boards of some other games, and been called a moron by the Moderator (not to mention what the other posters on the boards called me) because I could not figure something out. It has left me a bit gun shy about asking questions. That being said (well, typed actually), I hope that you will forgive my n00b questions.

We use the 200 pt + 150 pt Disad system to create our characters with a 60 point Active Cost Limit on all Powers, etc . . .

Question #1: I wish to create my character using the Large Size Template (p575 in The Book, and hereafter referred to as the LST). She will be 100 RL inches (not game inches) tall, and weigh probably about 750 lbs. When I create a LST Prefab on HD, it costs 51 pts rather than the 47 pt cost in The Book. Do the Characteristic Bonuses from the Large Size Template (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +5 PRE, and +3 ED) all have the No Figured Characteristics Limitation on them? If not, what am I doing wrong?

Question #2: The above character (Let us call her Allura, for the time being) has 60 STR (this includes the +15 bonus for the LST), 20 CON, and 20 BODY (again including the LST bonus). Using the formula: STUN = (BODY + (STR/2) + (CON/2)), the value of STUN should be 60 (20+30+10). On the HD, it gives me a STUN value of 63! Again, did I miss something?

Question #3: Allura is (obviously) from another world. Her Homeworld is (for all intents and purposes) like Earth (climate, etc . . .). Would her Survival and Tracking skills cross-over to Earth? I mean, the wind is the wind, animal tracks are animal tracks, etc . . .

Question #4: I wish to create a Heavy Longbow for Allura. Should it have a level of Growth (Always On) to simulate being a bigger Heavy Longbow than any used on Earth? It requires a 45 STR just to lift it, and a 55 STR to properly use it. It also does not use normal arrows (Earth arrows are not big enough). I would like to figure out how to simulate that whenever Allura pulls back on the bowstring, an energy arrow appears that must be used immediately or it dissipates. I know that it would be an RKA (probably 4d6 or so) with a Special Effect of Cosmic Energy or would an Energy Blast work better?

I nervously await your answers, and I have more questions, but this will get the ball rolling.

[ghost-angel]

#2 the +15 str from growth does not affect the figured stats
do the character up WITHOUTwhat you get from growth then add in the extras from growth the season with more character points till done to your taste

I don't believe the OP used Growth at all, so that's not much of an issue.

[New Hero]

The cost in the book does something silly.
It subtracts the Disadvantage from the Total Cost of the Powers.

If that's the case then, shouldn't the cost in The Book be 46 (51-5)? :)

[CTaylor]

Question #1: I wish to create my character using the Large Size Template

Others have covered the build stuff, but I'd offer that simply because you're big doesn't mean you have to buy the large size template. You can just be big.


Question #3: Allura is (obviously) from another world. Her Homeworld is (for all intents and purposes) like Earth (climate, etc . . .). Would her Survival and Tracking skills cross-over to Earth? I mean, the wind is the wind, animal tracks are animal tracks, etc . . .

That's largely up to the GM; personally I'd give you an 8- at most because while animal tracks are tracks a bear track is different from a deer track which is different from a Znarthax track. What does that creature look like and what kind of beast is it? Who knows? What fruit is edible, which fish live in what areas, what kind of water is potable, what is the weather like in this area, can you eat those mushrooms? All these things are pretty specific to the planet, so you'd have a basic level of familiarity, but not enough to really be a full skill yet.


Question #4: I wish to create a Heavy Longbow for Allura. Should it have a level of Growth (Always On) to simulate being a bigger Heavy Longbow than any used on Earth?

Nah, that's just a special effect. Build it with more damage and define it as a huge longbow, growth isn't needed (and in this case wouldn't make sense).

[ghost-angel]

If that's the case then, shouldn't the cost in The Book be 46 (51-5)? :)

Actually, it should be:

Powers
...
Total Cost: 51 Points

Disadvantages
...
Total Disadvantages: 5 Points


If you pick up a supplement published around 2004 and later you'll see that any form of Template or Package (and that's what the Size Templates are: Package Deals) listed as Powers/Disadvantages with totals for both.

The early supplements followed the 4E model of how to present these packages which was always misleading. Later ones corrected this mis-representation to reflect what was actually going on during the Purchase Process.

[Simon]

STR: You're running into the marvels of rounding rules. It's not "total the STR and divide by two" -- it's divide each "purchase" of STR by two, rounding each calculation, and then totaling the lot of 'em.

If you have 45 STR as a Characteristic and 15 STR as a Power, then the calculation would be: 45/2 + 15/2 = 22.5 + 7.5 = 23 + 8 = 31

You would do similar for CON during the calculation of STUN.

[Checkmate]

Welcome to the boards, in general we're a friendly bunch, who love to talk about HERO System, so you shouldn't have any reservations about firing off questions.

...as well as Hero Designer v 2.37 (hereafter referred to as HD) on my PC.
First piece of advice, Get HDv3. I LOVE this software. I cannot recommend it enough. The updates are WELL worth the cost. Simon (who explained the rounding rules above) is the creator of the software and is always available for technical support, and as time allows, includes the optional rules found in other books in the software.

That out of the way, on to your questions:


Question #1: I wish to create my character using the Large Size Template (p575 in The Book, and hereafter referred to as the LST). She will be 100 RL inches (not game inches) tall, and weigh probably about 750 lbs. When I create a LST Prefab on HD, it costs 51 pts rather than the 47 pt cost in The Book. Do the Characteristic Bonuses from the Large Size Template (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +5 PRE, and +3 ED) all have the No Figured Characteristics Limitation on them? If not, what am I doing wrong?
I wouldn't worry about this too much. Looking at what you want, you're character is only around 8ft tall. I'm not sure that would really require you to take the LST. However, if you wanted it, just think about what the character should have, and give her that. If you think she should have a 60 STR go with that. If you think she's heavy enough that Knockback Resistance makes sense, get her that. Just buy what you think is approprate. Then you can add Disadvantages like Physical Limitation: Tall and heavy, or Distictive Features: Eight foot tall woman.


Question #2: The above character (Let us call her Allura, for the time being) has 60 STR (this includes the +15 bonus for the LST), 20 CON, and 20 BODY (again including the LST bonus). Using the formula: STUN = (BODY + (STR/2) + (CON/2)), the value of STUN should be 60 (20+30+10). On the HD, it gives me a STUN value of 63! Again, did I miss something?
As Simon has pointed out, it's a rounding thing. As a GM, I would tell you to take the STR out of the powers section and just buy it normally. As a player, hey you're getting 3 free STUN :D


Question #3: Allura is (obviously) from another world. Her Homeworld is (for all intents and purposes) like Earth (climate, etc . . .). Would her Survival and Tracking skills cross-over to Earth? I mean, the wind is the wind, animal tracks are animal tracks, etc . . .
I would let you use both skills face value. It's perfect within the genre to allow this type of skill crossover, couple that with how little Tracking and Survival come up in a Champions games (which mostly take place in cities) and I think it's fine.


Question #4: I wish to create a Heavy Longbow for Allura. Should it have a level of Growth (Always On) to simulate being a bigger Heavy Longbow than any used on Earth? It requires a 45 STR just to lift it, and a 55 STR to properly use it. It also does not use normal arrows (Earth arrows are not big enough). I would like to figure out how to simulate that whenever Allura pulls back on the bowstring, an energy arrow appears that must be used immediately or it dissipates. I know that it would be an RKA (probably 4d6 or so) with a Special Effect of Cosmic Energy or would an Energy Blast work better?
This is entirely up to you. The Bow is a Focus (OAF if it can be taken away, OIF if it can only be taken away when she's asleep or knocked out). You can add other limitations like STR Min, but essentially it's just a focus and the being heavy is just a special effect of that focus that have benefits and disads that equal each other out. Bad guys that aren't strong enough can't lift it and use it, but neither can friends that want to return it to you etc.

The choice between Energy Blast or Ranged Killing Attack is entirely yours. The arrows are simply the Special Effect, if you want your arrows to be Energy Blasts instead, no one can really argue because I doubt many of us have seen the effects of a bow that shoots energy arrows. Personally I would suggest going with the Energy Blast because in most Champions settings, killing is bad, and a 4d6 Killing Attack has a high probability of killing.


I nervously await your answers, and I have more questions, but this will get the ball rolling .
Roll away, we're here to help.

[New Hero]

Sorry for the delay, but I've been working a ton of hours lately. I'll post some follow-up questions soon.

[Tom Carman]

The choice between Energy Blast or Ranged Killing Attack is entirely yours. The arrows are simply the Special Effect, if you want your arrows to be Energy Blasts instead, no one can really argue because I doubt many of us have seen the effects of a bow that shoots energy arrows. Personally I would suggest going with the Energy Blast because in most Champions settings, killing is bad, and a 4d6 Killing Attack has a high probability of killing.

For that matter, a 12d6 EB is none too healthy to get hit with either. On expectation roll (42 Stun, 12 Body), an unarmored normal would be out cold and bleeding out from a single hit.

[New Hero]

For that matter, a 12d6 EB is none too healthy to get hit with either. On expectation roll (42 Stun, 12 Body), an unarmored normal would be out cold and bleeding out from a single hit.

Precisely! I never said that Allura had a Code vs Killing! Let me try to explain. As mentioned before, Allura is from another planet. Her world is basically like Themyscera (sp?). Wonder Woman's sisters are born and bred warriors. A Code vs Killing is meaningless to them. Allura will have to learn that killing is wrong. But until then . . .

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! :whistle:

Let the blood-letting begin! :snicker:

[Nolgroth]

And the HERO System unleashes another monster! :eek:

Welcome to the boards New Hero. :)

[New Hero]

Thanks to all of you for your advice and your welcomes.

I've been tinkering with the HD, and I think that I have a couple of Allura's attacks built.

In the immortal words from the Novelty Song, 'Existential Blues':

Tighten your shorts, Pilgrim, and sing like the Duke!

. . . 'cause here they come!

Foot Stomp

HA+4d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END, +1/4), Area of Effect (3" Radius, +1), Selective (+1/4), HTH Attack (-1/2)

Active Points: 55
Real Cost: 37



Thunderclap

Hearing Group Flash 8d6, Does Knockback (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END, +1/4), Area of Effect Non-Selective (9" Cone, +3/4), Gestures (Requires Both Hands, -1/2), Does Not Work versus Desolids (-1/4)

Active Points: 54
Real Cost: 31


Be afraid, be very afraid! :snicker:

[ghost-angel]

Probably don't need Personal Immunity on the Thunderclap as the Cone AoE starts in front of the Character, not on the Character like Radius AoE does.

[New Hero]

Does Foot Stomp need Gestures or something? I realize that most people don't Gesture with their feet, but if Allura's feet are Entangled, she wouldn't be able to use the power.

[ghost-angel]

Nope. I wouldn't put it on there.

Gestures is for an elaborate and obvious activation of Powers with one's limbs. So if you have to do a little dance first then it's Gestures.

Anything else is just SFX interaction.

[CTaylor]

I would probably put that under special effects and point of origin in powers rather than gestures, like Ghost says.

[Psybolt]

Does Foot Stomp need Gestures or something? I realize that most people don't Gesture with their feet, but if Allura's feet are Entangled, she wouldn't be able to use the power.


There is a limitation called restrainable on pg 306 of the BOOK that you could use to help show this effect.

And welcome to the board. Whatever old board you were at sounds terrible. This one is full of Heroes.

[New Hero]

There is a limitation called restrainable on pg 306 of the BOOK that you could use to help show this effect.

And welcome to the board. Whatever old board you were at sounds terrible. This one is full of Heroes.

Well then, theoretically, shouldn't all HAs have the Restrainable Limitation? If your arms are being held by your side, you can't punch anybody.

And thanks for the welcome. :)

[CTaylor]

Well then, theoretically, shouldn't all HAs have the Restrainable Limitation?

Correct, which is why it doesn't apply. On page 98 of the revised rules (the really BIG tome) it points out the "point of origin" rules where you describe where a power comes from - cyclops' eye beams, wolverine's claws, etc. That's part of the special effects of the power, and only worth a limitation if it is unusually likely to be restrained.

[ghost-angel]

Well then, theoretically, shouldn't all HAs have the Restrainable Limitation?

Correct, which is why it doesn't apply. On page 98 of the revised rules (the really BIG tome) it points out the "point of origin" rules where you describe where a power comes from - cyclops' eye beams, wolverine's claws, etc. That's part of the special effects of the power, and only worth a limitation if it is unusually likely to be restrained.

Or is more easily restrained that normal.

[New Hero]

Question about the Boards:

Some of you have given me rep (Thanks! :D ), but my Posts still say (in the upperright hand corner) that my Rep is 0. Do I have to click on something to get my Rep to appear?

[ghost-angel]

You have to make 50 Posts on the boards - posts in the Non Gaming Discussion (NGD) area do not count.

Once you have a Post Count of 50 you magically have Rep Power.

[CTaylor]

Or is more easily restrained than normal.

Correct :) I thought of that after I hit Post and decided it wasn't worth an edit, thanks for adding it in!

[badger3k]

the bow
if your 40 str is at 0 end cost then it would be no problem to carry it all day
I'd treat it as a wand that requires 2 hands to use(no need for a quiver)
the weight of it can be an advantage to you(hardly anybody could steal it)
maybe call it an OAF and call it a personal focus(need to know the secret way to use it or it was made just for you) and don't worry about the weight
or call it an OIF that you can summon to your hand if it is in sight

If the character can call the bow to her from a line of sight, then I'm not sure I'd go with a focus at all. Sure, you can put a towel over it and prevent her from summoning it, but...either way.

I agree with the carrying bit - if it's a superheroic campaign, I wouldn't worry about the cost, and for the arrows I'd go with either a multipower and ultra slots or use charges (the MP seems a better fit if she has different "arrows".

Also, if you can, the Until Super-Power Database (and the ultimate books) have many variations of common powers that make it extremely easy to set someone up (even if you enjoy tinkering, they can give some base powers).

[New Hero]

I would like for Allura to be completely immune to all Terrestrial Toxins, diseases, and everything with one exception:

Alcohol affects her like Fruit Juice affects humans. And Fruit Juice affects her like beer, gin and whiskey affects you Earthlings. :sneaky:

What will the other players think when they see her down a TALL glass of Tequila at breakfast? :eek:

(I'm sorry for this question but the Life Support table on page 198 is a bit confusing.)

[ghost-angel]

10 Points Life Support: Immunity All Toxins/Poisons

Physical Limitation: Fruit Juice Gets Her Drunk (Infrequently, Slightly) 5pts

[Sean Waters]

...or, for something like that, I'd just note that she has an altered metabolism and that alcohol works like fruit juice and vice versa, no points and no disadvantages. I appreciate this might be a bit of a shock coming from me as I normaly want to track the points on everything, and, depending on how it was used in-game I might change my mind, but on the face of it it just seems like a bit of colour and could be considered the realm of sfx.

Maybe.

[New Hero]

OK.

Whilst in the Laundry room, I was looking through The Book. I have a question about Hardened (No Viagra jokes, plz :D).

Do I buy 3 levels of Hardened on my Resistant PD at the same time or do I need to buy 1 level at a time stating whether it applies to Armor Piercing, or Penetrating or Indirect? And would you (as a GM) allow this in your game? Currently, Allura has 20 rPD/20 rED.

Also, I've seen the term 'Munchkinizing' (or something like that) on these boards. What does it mean, and is that what I'm trying to do with Allura?

[Tonio]

OK.

Whilst in the Laundry room, I was looking through The Book. I have a question about Hardened (No Viagra jokes, plz :D).

Do I buy 3 levels of Hardened on my Resistant PD at the same time or do I need to buy 1 level at a time stating whether it applies to Armor Piercing, or Penetrating or Indirect? And would you (as a GM) allow this in your game? Currently, Allura has 20 rPD/20 rED.

Also, I've seen the term 'Munchkinizing' (or something like that) on these boards. What does it mean, and is that what I'm trying to do with Allura?

You can buy as many levels of Hardened as you wish, and you have to specify what Advantage they work against, for those cases when more than one applies. For example, if you buy one level of Hardened, and specify it works against Armor Piercing, and are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating or one level of Armor Piercing, the Penetrating or Armor Piercing is countered by your Hardened. If you are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating and one level of Armor Piercing, then the Armor Piercing is countered, not the Penetrating. Basically, when you buy Hardened, you decide what it works against when it could apply to more than one thing.

"Munchkin" is a term used to describe people who blatantly ignore common sense, unspoken rules, fairness, and character concept in favor of power. For example, trying to apply a Limitation "Not for Offensive ECV" on your EGO when you have no mental powers (and hence no use for ECV) is considered munchkiny (and, I believe, not rules-legal). Stacking Limitation upon Limitation on your powers when you believe the Limitations overlap or won't be an issue, in order to reduce the power's cost without actually limiting it, is also considered munchkiny.

[badger3k]

You can buy as many levels of Hardened as you wish, and you have to specify what Advantage they work against, for those cases when more than one applies. For example, if you buy one level of Hardened, and specify it works against Armor Piercing, and are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating or one level of Armor Piercing, the Penetrating or Armor Piercing is countered by your Hardened. If you are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating and one level of Armor Piercing, then the Armor Piercing is countered, not the Penetrating. Basically, when you buy Hardened, you decide what it works against when it could apply to more than one thing.

"Munchkin" is a term used to describe people who blatantly ignore common sense, unspoken rules, fairness, and character concept in favor of power. For example, trying to apply a Limitation "Not for Offensive ECV" on your EGO when you have no mental powers (and hence no use for ECV) is considered munchkiny (and, I believe, not rules-legal). Stacking Limitation upon Limitation on your powers when you believe the Limitations overlap or won't be an issue, in order to reduce the power's cost without actually limiting it, is also considered munchkiny.

Hardened does not have to be specified when purchased (it says you can, though, not must) (p115 is where this is from). One level can only apply to one of those at a time. If you get hit with an AP attack and have one level of hardened, it applies. If you get hit with an AP Penetrating attack and have one level of hardened, you apply it to whichever one you want, and the other goes through. That's why you can buy multiple levels - to counteract more then one effect at a time, or to counteract multiple levels of an advantage.

For references, skimming though some books I can't see any Hardened where it is assigned a specific advantage. The body armor in Dark Champions just lists Hardened, same in Ultimate Energy Projector (that I can see) - I'm pretty certain the advantage is for all. If you want to limit it, maybe lower the advantage to +1/4 or +1/2, depending on how common the attack it defends against is (and how uncommon the others are).

Edit - Any limitation that is not actually limiting is not worth anything. Buying high STR, not usable when dead, is not worth any limitation. Buying something with "not usable in space" is not a limitation for a ground-based fantasy game. Buying something that will not work on Wednesdays, while not technically illegal, will be worth nothing unless the game keeps track of days, or a lot of the game takes place on Wednesdays (it could happen).

(although, looking at my first example, if the game involves frequent death and turning into undead, the first may be worth something, but that would be a pretty rare case (albeit maybe an interesting game))

[Tonio]

Hardened does not have to be specified when purchased (it says you can, though, not must) (p115 is where this is from). One level can only apply to one of those at a time. If you get hit with an AP attack and have one level of hardened, it applies. If you get hit with an AP Penetrating attack and have one level of hardened, you apply it to whichever one you want, and the other goes through. That's why you can buy multiple levels - to counteract more then one effect at a time, or to counteract multiple levels of an advantage.

For references, skimming though some books I can't see any Hardened where it is assigned a specific advantage. The body armor in Dark Champions just lists Hardened, same in Ultimate Energy Projector (that I can see) - I'm pretty certain the advantage is for all. If you want to limit it, maybe lower the advantage to +1/4 or +1/2, depending on how common the attack it defends against is (and how uncommon the others are).

Hm, true... says you can define it. Although why you would is beyond me. In the example, though, it says Defender bought his Hardened as working towards Penetrating first (did he, really??).

In any case, what you define is, basically, the order in which it applies, not which one it only applies to. (That is, if you define it was working towards Armor Piercing first, that doesn't mean it won't apply to Penetrating, but rather that if you're hit with a power that has both, then it applies to Armor Piercing instead of Penetrating.)

I guess it's kinda hard to explain. =/

[Tonio]

Edit - Any limitation that is not actually limiting is not worth anything. Buying high STR, not usable when dead, is not worth any limitation. Buying something with "not usable in space" is not a limitation for a ground-based fantasy game. Buying something that will not work on Wednesdays, while not technically illegal, will be worth nothing unless the game keeps track of days, or a lot of the game takes place on Wednesdays (it could happen).

(although, looking at my first example, if the game involves frequent death and turning into undead, the first may be worth something, but that would be a pretty rare case (albeit maybe an interesting game))

Right! The game itself has rules to prevent munchkinism, hehe.

[badger3k]

Hm, true... says you can define it. Although why you would is beyond me. In the example, though, it says Defender bought his Hardened as working towards Penetrating first (did he, really??).

In any case, what you define is, basically, the order in which it applies, not which one it only applies to. (That is, if you define it was working towards Armor Piercing first, that doesn't mean it won't apply to Penetrating, but rather that if you're hit with a power that has both, then it applies to Armor Piercing instead of Penetrating.)

I guess it's kinda hard to explain. =/

That's probably not a bad way to do it, but the official uses of it don't make such distinctions (even Defender in News of the World just has the generic "hardened"). It wouldn't be bad to specify which would work first if the campaign uses those advantages fairly often - in fact, if such things are common, I'd make it a requirement to specify the order (just to establish SOP). Those advantages are pretty rare in my games (the most is AP), so it really hasn't come up.

Also, some fx might give guidance - for example, magic chainmail hardened might be more resistant to penetrating while being more vulnerable to AP, or the opposite (it might resist the AP, but be affected by penetrating as the links bite into flesh :sneaky:).

[New Hero]

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

If I buy 2 levels of Hardened, I have to specify when I buy it which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

Right? :think:

[Lord Liaden]

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

Correct, except that Indirect doesn't allow someone to bypass personal Defenses like innate PD, Armor, or Force Field. It may bypass a "barrier" type Defense like a Force Wall, unless the FW has the Hardened Advantage.


If I buy 2 levels of Hardened, I have to specify when I buy it which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

Right? :think:

Well, it's a little more granular than that. Think of it as a one-to-one correspondence. One level of Hardened will prevent the effects of one level of either Armor Piercing or Penetrating. Two levels of either Armor Piercing or Penetrating will bypass one level of Hardened, affecting you as it would if the Defense were not Hardened. If you have one level of Hardened, and you're hit with an attack with both one level of Armor Piercing and one level of Penetrating (or Indirect in the case of Force Wall), you should have defined which of these Advantages the Defense will block first -- the one not chosen will affect you as it normally would.

If you have two levels of Hardened, then your Defense will block any two of those Advantages, e.g. x2 Armor Piercing, or Armor Piercing + Penetrating. If you envision an attack in your campaign with three such Advantages, then you'll need to define what order they're stopped in. Such attacks are likely to be very rare, though, if they appear at all.

[badger3k]

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

If I buy 2 levels of Hardened, I have to specify when I buy it which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

Right? :think:

No. You can specify which one will be taken off first...if you want.

Otherwise, if she has one level of hardened and gets hit by any of the three, it automatically protects her from that.

If she has two levels of hardened and gets hit with an AP and Penetrating attack(s), one level would protect against AP, one against Penetrating.

Same if she had three and three attacks hit here.

Now, if she was hit with AP and Penetrating attacks, and had only one level of hardened, then it would work for one but not the other. This is where you can specify when you buy the power the order in which it would stop them, but you don't have to.

If she had two levels of hardened, and got hit with an AP(2 levels) attack, it would work for both levels, but if she were hit with an AP(3 levels) or an AP(2)+Penetrating, then her defenses would only work for two of those levels (all AP but lets penetrating through, Stops Penetrating and 1 level AP but is affected by one level of AP, etc).

1 level of Hardened stops 1 level of one advantage, at a time.
It can stop an AP attack the first strike, and a Penetrating the next, but not both in the same attack. The specifying just makes it easier to keep track and keeps it consistent.

Did that help? :confused:

[New Hero]

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .

[badger3k]

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .
Don't you just love working on a post for an hour, then having it disappear into the intertubes? :)

No, you can but you don't have to.

Damage resistance is different, since it is a power that makes one of your resistances (PD or ED) protected to work vs killing attacks. The power has that requirement.

Hardened is an advantage. It modifies an existing power or ability, so it is automatically attached to that power/ability (note that if you buy hardened PD, and buy damage resistance, you have to apply the hardened modifier to the resistance as well). Hardened works by beefing up the resistance to other advantages, which are normally Armor Piercing and Penetrating (Indirect only applies for some defensive powers, so this one may not apply).

The way the advantage works is you buy it for a defense (say, resistant PD). It will protect against an Armor Piercing attack. It will also protect against a Penetrating attack. It will not give full protection against an Armor Piercing Penetrating attack (which is pretty powerful) - one level will only protect against whichever one you (a) want at that time, or (b) specify when the advantage is applied. It really depends on what rules you want to work with (or if you aren't the DM, then whatever they have set up).

If you want it to provide less protection, by stating that one level applies to only one form of advantage (AP, P, I), then you are free to make it that way, but since it is already only a +1/4 modifier, there is no way to get anything for it (less extensive cover means less point cost) since it is at the lowest advantage already.

You can buy a defense that is only for a particular attack (like an AP one, if the GM allows), but that's a bit more and I don't want to write it in this post (especially since it may be irrelevant).

In most games that I am aware of, Penetrating and AP attacks are not the norm, and Indirect is not used often either. Most defenses are not hardened. Unless you have a lot of those attacks, I'd say limiting it is pretty much useless - but it's still the GM call.

Long way to recap: Can, not Have To, but it is still ultimately up to the GM.

[Tonio]

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .

Nope. What you decide is, from one point of view, how you "break ties" if a "tie" occurs.

So if you're hit by an attack with only one type of Advantage (of the ones countered by Hardened), then you apply all your levels of Hardened towards it. But if you're hit with an attack with more than one type of Advantage (of the ones countered by Hardened), then you have to choose what each level of Hardened counts against. This is a decision you can make when you buy Hardened, but you apparently don't have to.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm not sure if the people saying "you can choose which attack Advantage Hardened applies to at the time of the attack" intended to imply this or not; but if you haven't made this decision in advance, I believe whatever you do decide should become the rule for that character if he's hit with the same combination of Advantages again. That's the strong implication of a response from Steve Long to a similar rules question I asked him a while back, on this thread (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61880):

I was looking at the writeup for Doctor Destroyer in CKC, particularly his "Sword of Destroyer," a HKA with Armor Piercing x2 and Penetrating. It struck me that I could use a little help working out how that combination of Advantages would interact against Defenses that are Hardened x2.

Would you mind walking me through it? Thanks for you help.

Assuming the character hasn't defined in advance how he wants his Hardened to work in this situation, just let him pick whichever two Advantages he wants to negate. Make a note so that the next time someone attacks him with this sort of power, you'll know how to apply the Hardened.

I'll post this specific question on the Rules Questions forum, to be sure.

[Lord Liaden]

And Steve confirms: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67618

[New Hero]

OK.

I started a New Character on HD (just so I don't get even more confused).


I bought her STR to 60 and her CON to 20.
Which makes her PD=12 and her ED=4.
I bought (as a Power) her PD to 20.
I selected the Affects Base Characteristics box.
I bought the Advantage Hardened.
I did the same for her ED (No sense in typing all that again).
I then buy Damage Resistance (Hardened) for all of it.
I think that I did something wrong.

1 level of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 59 (?!).
2 levels of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 74 (?!).
3 levels of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 89 (?!).

Man, I royally screwed something up, didn't I? :nonp:

[ghost-angel]

post the hdc file if you don't mind.

[New Hero]

Hope I do this right.

29213

Let me know if it worked. I'm not very computer-literate.

[ghost-angel]

Attachment worked. Nothing screwed up.

Here's the breakdown:
Base PD of 12 - Hardened costs 3 pts
(12PD costs 12 points, 12 * 1.25 = 15 points, minus the base of 12 = 3 Character Points final Cost To You)
Base ED of 4 - Hardened costs 1 pt
(breakdown is similar as above)

Purchased PD of +8, Hardened = 10 points, plus the 3 from applying Hardened to the Base PD (as statted above) gives the Power a total cost of 13.
Purchsed ED breaks down the same way.

Damage Resistance costs 1 Character Point to make 2 points of Defense Resistant, so to make 40 points of defense (20PD and 20ED) Resistant costs 20 Points, plus Hardened costs 5 points for a total of 25 points (20*1.25).

For a total cost of 59 Character Points to have 20 rPD & 20 rED, both Hardened once.

That make sense?

[New Hero]

Damn, you're quick! :D

So I didn't screw it up! HUZZAH! :celebrate

[New Hero]

I know for a fact that I want at least one level of Hardened rPD and rED for Allura. Even in real life, street punks are armed with AP bullets. The question is how many levels do I really need for a starting toon? I mean, even the most heartless GM wouldn't throw a brand new toon against Doc Destroyer!

Or would he . . . ? :sneaky:

[ghost-angel]

One level is usually more than sufficient for most games. In fact, I don't normally place any levels of Hardened on my characters defenses.

[CTaylor]

Yeah you shouldn't need armor piercing - street thugs don't have them except in the movies because why pay ten times as much for bullets when regular ones work fine? Only someone specifically built to ignore special attacks or unusually tough should be buying a lot of hardened defenses.

[Lord Liaden]

And if you buy sufficient Resistant Defenses, halved Defenses will still be enough to block significant damage even from Armor Piercing small-caliber bullets.

[New Hero]

So is 20 rPD and 20 rED enough without Hardened? Or should I consider buying both up to 30 (all resistant, no levels of Hardened)?

[Sean Waters]

If you are in a game where 12DC attacks are common (I note you have 60 STR) and you have a CON of 20 and a total PD/ED of 20 then you are going to get stunned a lot: the average damage is 42 from that sort of attack, which means 22 through your defences and that exceeds your CON.

My personal rule of thumb is that non resistant defence should be roughly 2xDC of campaign attacks (so 24 if 12d6 is the campaign average), and resistant defences about 1xDC of campaign attacks. Definitely not a hard and fast rule, but a useful place to start :)

I'd either buy up your CON, your defences, or buy some damage reduction - unless your schtick is that you don't get hit because of a high DCV or you have some other esoteric defence.

[Diamond Spear]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you’ll learn a lot about how to build characters as you play. If your going to be playing with an experienced GM just let them know that you’re knew to HERO and ask up front if you can tweak your character after the first game session or two. That way you’ll have a much better idea of how things work “in game”.

[ghost-angel]

So is 20 rPD and 20 rED enough without Hardened? Or should I consider buying both up to 30 (all resistant, no levels of Hardened)?

This depends entirely upon the campaign in question.

Sean has some good suggestions. To apply some concrete numbers to that, rPD/ED of 12-15 and total non-resistant PD/ED of 24-28 will probably do you better overall.

[New Hero]

So buy my total PD and ED to somewhere in the 24-28 range, and basically make half of them Resistant with no levels of Hardened, right?

[ghost-angel]

For your average game, usually works pretty well.

[New Hero]

Here's another question:

Just how the #%$^ do I print a character with the HD v2.37? I don't see a Print button or a selection to print a character on any drop-down menus.

:help:

[Simon]

Read the documentation. Specifically, the section titled "Previewing, Exporting, And Printing a Character" -- page 32.

[New Hero]

Here is the proposed character for Allura. Since she does not speak or understand any Earth languages (see Disadvantages), the press will call her The Blonde Bombshell.

The Blonde Bombshell Height: 9' 0" Weight: 850 lbs Eyes: Sky Blue Hair: Blonde

STR 40, DEX 20, CON 25, BDY 27, INT 9, EGO 8, PRE 21, COM 32

PD 25 (15 rPD), ED 25 (15 rED), SPD 3, REC 13, END 50, STN 60

RUN 12", SWIM 2", LEAP 15"

Skills: Animal Handler (Horses) 14-, Breakfall 13-, Defense Maneuver I, Interrogation 13-, Penalty Skill Levels: +5 vs. Range Modifier with a single attack, Survival (Temperate/SubTropical, Mountains) 11-, Weapon Familiarity (Bows), Weaponsmith (Muscle-Powered Ranged) 11-

Talents: Absolute Range Sense

Powers: Large Template (+14 STR, +3 BDY, Knockback Resistance -3", +5 PRE, Running +6", +3 ED, Stretching 1") See The Book.

Other Powers: +17 PD, +17 ED, Damage Resistance (15 PD / 15 ED), Leaping +7" (Accurate, NCM x4), Life Support: Longevity (200 years), Life Support: Immunity to all Terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents, Life Support: Immunity to all terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents, Flash Defense (Hearing) 10 pts, Flash Defense (Sight) 10 pts.

Heavy Longbow RKA 2d6 OIF Unbreakable Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; Personal Focus, Required Hands Two Handed, Real Weapon, No Knockback)

Combat Prowess MultiPower 30 pt Reserve (all slots Ultra)
a. Jab: HA +1d6, HTH Attack, No Knockback
b. The Old One-Two: HA +2d6, HTH Attack, No Knockback
c. The Jaw Jacker: HA +3d6, HTH Attack
d. The Knockout: HA +4d6, HTH Attack
e. Foot Stomp: HA +3d6, Personal Immunity, Explosion, Selective Target, HTH Attack
f. Thunderclap: Flash Attack 4d6, AOE Non-selective (3" Cone), Gestures (Requires Both Hands), Does not work against Desolids.

Disadvantages:

Physical Limitation: Large (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing), (5 pts)
Enraged: Cruelty to Animals (Common), go 11-, recover 11- (20 pts)
Hunted: U.S. Government 8-, Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching (15 pts)
Hunted: VIPER 8-, Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Capture (25 pts)
Money: Destitute (10 pts)
Physical Limitation: Knows Nothing of Earth Culture (All the time, Fully Impairing) (25 pts)
Psychological Limitation: Naive (Very Common, Total) (25 pts)
Social Limitation: Does Not Speak or Undestand and Earth Languages (Very Frequently, Severe) (25 pts)

Grand Total Points Spent: 350

All characteristics bought as Powers have already been added to the Base Characteristic.

Now could the Heavy Longbow also go into the Multipower (It has 30 Active Points)?

And would you allow this toon into your game? Are there any mistakes that I made? Are the Disadvantages OK, or should they be tweaked in some way?

Let the bludgeoning begin! :slap:

[badger3k]

Heavy Longbow RKA 2d6 OIF Unbreakable Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; Personal Focus, Required Hands Two Handed, Real Weapon, No Knockback)

Combat Prowess MultiPower 30 pt Reserve (all slots Ultra)
a. Jab: HA +1d6, HTH Attack, No Knockback
b. The Old One-Two: HA +2d6, HTH Attack, No Knockback
c. The Jaw Jacker: HA +3d6, HTH Attack
d. The Knockout: HA +4d6, HTH Attack
e. Foot Stomp: HA +3d6, Personal Immunity, Explosion, Selective Target, HTH Attack
f. Thunderclap: Flash Attack 4d6, AOE Non-selective (3" Cone), Gestures (Requires Both Hands), Does not work against Desolids.

Now could the Heavy Longbow also go into the Multipower (It has 30 Active Points)?


I didn't really look too closely at her, but I wanted to make a quick comment on this. I wouldn't put the weapon in the MP since it is not the same power (why would her bow become her foot stomp?). There isn't a connection, unless you buy the entire thing as her bow (using the weapon as a club, etc). Not that easy with the thunderclap and foot stomp.

The individual slots for extra +d6 for the HTH attack does not make a lot of sense. You can buy one slot, and you can just choose to limit your attacks to +1d6 or +2d6 instead of using all +4d6. If each were different, such as one that has "no knockback", one that does double, one that is AP, and one that is...penetrating maybe - give each slot something unique. Using 4 slots for what is really 2 attacks (one +2d6 HTH, no knockback; the other +4d6 HTH) is a bit of a waste. Make them stand out as really worth the extra slot and point cost.

Just a couple of thoughts. I haven't looked at the rest yet.

[badger3k]

For the bow, if you want to give it more "oomph", you can go with ranged HKA (so that you can add strength to the damage) - a 4d6 RKA costs 60 active, but:

Bow 1: HKA 2d6+1 (4d6 w/STR), Ranged (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) Active 52, real 21

is a bit cheaper. Of course, a 4d6 KA is real strong. I made the mistake of letting a character with high strength have this and in our practice run it was too much - he cut a norm in half (in his defense, he didn't know he had no powers, in going against him, he definitely had no code vs killing). I just present it for completeness. (is that a word?)

I am not sure I would use "Expendable" for an Unbreakable Personal Focus. Expendable is meant to refer to something that is used up each time the power is used. Using that would mean that she would have to find a new bow each time it is used (the meaning of "fire and forget"?). ;)

(edit - whoops - I meant to say that I would not use the Expendable option for this. I'd roleplay that part of the limitation if it ever came up. There are a lot of options if she did lose the bow - developed powers that replace it, discovered a new magic bow, have a high-tech one built for her, take an opponents weapons of similar point costs...lots of replacement options if you didn't want to run an adventure to get a new bow).

[New Hero]

Allura (when her 'career' begins) lives off the land in the woods/mountains near (The City). She doesn't bother anybody, and would have no use of money. Should she have the Disadvantage Money: Destitute?

[pinecone]

Only IF you want that to be an issue....Destitute means no or poor resources.... even when she hits the big town somehow she makes no money from apearance fees (crooked manager?) till it buys off.

Me I'd leave it unsaid, in the wild she's "well to do" Lot's of game etc...later she's middle income in civilization (apearaces, action figures etc...)

I agree with the Multi...you can put the Bow inside if you want, but the Multi-Fu is best if the slots have some shine to them...

Multi (30)
u Bash HA +4D6 REnd>0
u Shove! HA+3D6 x2KB, REnd>1/2
u Hit the soft spot! HA+3D6 AP, REnd>0 (Or HA +4D6 AP...)
u Hay..maker! HA +6D6
ETC....that each slot really is a choice....

u Toss a rock! E-Atk 6D6
u Shoot 'em! RKA 2D6 (or 1D6+1 Ranged HKA...) Charges(?) OAF: Bow

One shortcomming to adding non HA's is not being able to take "HA" as a disadd on the Multi it's self...more cost for more flexabilty.....

[New Hero]

An HA +4d6 AP?!! :jawdrop: If she hit a normal with that, would the AP bypass the normal defense that everybody has?

If so, ewwwwwwwwwwwwww! Clean up on aisle 5! :nonp:

[Hyper-Man]

I think you are confusing Armor Piercing (AP) with Killing damage.

The Advantage AP halves the target's defenses (normal or resistant) vs. the attack it is applied to.

[badger3k]

I think you are confusing Armor Piercing (AP) with Killing damage.

The Advantage AP halves the target's defenses (normal or resistant) vs. the attack it is applied to.

It would still be a 12d6 attack, even if only 4 dice are AP. You'd have to keep them separate, or else pay for the naked advantage for her 40 Str. Might not be a bad idea. Normal person (8 stats)...ahh, never mind. With a 2 PD, either way he's going to be toast...or maybe jelly might be better ;). Of course, that is why you don't hit norms with full STR attacks...at least not if you want them in one piece.

[Hyper-Man]

Actually, normal STR adds a number of DC's to an Advantaged HA up to equal the original number of DC's of the HA itself (4 in this case).

So a character with a 20 STR (or higher) and a 4d6 HA w/AP could do a 8d6 AP attack.

As pointed out, even this relatively low number of DC's (8) is compared to the average PD of a 'normal' (2) it will do an average of 6 Body. Applying the AP Advantage only increases that by 1 more Body. AP also means that a relatively 'tough normal' with a 10 PD would still take an average of 3 Body from such an attack even though they wouldn't normally take any Body from an 8d6n attack.

[badger3k]

Actually, normal STR adds a number of DC's to an Advantaged HA up to equal the original number of DC's of the HA itself (4 in this case).

So a character with a 20 STR (or higher) and a 4d6 HA w/AP could do a 8d6 AP attack.

As pointed out, even this relatively low number of DC's (8) is compared to the average PD of a 'normal' (2) it will do an average of 6 Body. Applying the AP Advantage only increases that by 1 more Body. AP also means that a relatively 'tough normal' with a 10 PD would still take an average of 3 Body from such an attack even though they wouldn't normally take any Body from an 8d6n attack.

Wow -- I had to look that up. I don't think this ever happened in any of my games, but it's nice to know. She would get to use the advantage if she kept her active point cost of strength equal to or less than the unmodified active total of the advantaged attack. But the minute she uses more strength, she can't use the HA AP. I never knew that. Thanks.

[pinecone]

It would still be a 12d6 attack, even if only 4 dice are AP. You'd have to keep them separate, or else pay for the naked advantage for her 40 Str. Might not be a bad idea. Normal person (8 stats)...ahh, never mind. With a 2 PD, either way he's going to be toast...or maybe jelly might be better ;). Of course, that is why you don't hit norms with full STR attacks...at least not if you want them in one piece.

Ummm...that would be 8D6 AP...Or 12 D6 normal....

[New Hero]

I had the Book with me last night in the Laundry Room. I started looking things up that I still have questions about, but you ever have one of those nights where words seem to move around on the page? Lord, I was tired. I'll try to post more questions soon.

[New Hero]

OK. I'm going to delete the Money: Destitute Disad.

Are there any others that need to be tweaked (or thrown out)?

[New Hero]

OK. I'm trying to figure out how to make a special arrow for Allura.

I want it to be a 3d6 Body / 3 DEF Entangle (A net envelopes the target hex). I would also like it to be Linked to a 2d6 DRAIN (STR) Delayed Return Rate (1 Hour). Maybe make it one of the slots in the new and improved Multipower.

Any ideas? (I can't make heads or tails out of The Book).

[ghost-angel]

If you want it as a slot in the Multipower then both Powers are placed together in the same slot and the combined total Active Points cannot exceed the AP Total of the Slot.

If you don't need them in the MultiPower, just build them normally and add the Linked Limitation to the Drain and list them together.

[New Hero]

Oooooookay . . . I guess the Entangle/Drain Arrow is pretty much a bust. A 3d6 Body / 3 DEF Entangle (without linking the Drain to it) comes to about 67 Active Points after all of the Advantages. YIKES! :eek:

Have to rethink this . . . :think:

[Hyper-Man]

Keep in mind that Active points are unaffected by any Limitations on a power.

You would be better off completely dedicating an arrow slot to a Drain and have a separate Entangle arrow slot. Might even make for a good one-two combo with Rapid Fire.

[New Hero]

Sorry for the delay in posting, but I've gotten caught up in reading the "Quote of the Week from my gaming group" thread. It's an excellent read.

Now then, let's shelve Allura for a moment.

I'm thinking (uh-oh!) that a brick is probably the easiest toon to create (Am I wrong?), so instead of building Allura, I should start small and then work my way up.

If all a brick does is smash things with his fists (which is what my toon will do), do I just buy a HTH attack, say 4d6 . . . or do I need to buy a 1d6, a 2d6, a 3d6, etc . . .

One of the punches will be Armor Piercing (probably the biggest one).

Thoughts? Again, I apologize for the lengthy delay, but that thread is hysterical! :lol:

[ghost-angel]

"Brick" being the easiest - yes and no. They can be the most straight forward as a Vanilla Type : STR + Defenses.

Just buy the largest HtH Attack you want to perform - you can always use it at less than full power.

If you want to buy a variety of Punches purchase each one with the appropriate Advantage. Placing them in a Multipower Pool may be appropriate.

[New Hero]

In the proposed character for Allura (see previous page), she had a MP. Here are a couple of the slots:

e. Foot Stomp: HA +3d6, Personal Immunity, Explosion, Selective Target, HTH Attack
f. Thunderclap: Flash Attack 4d6, AOE Non-selective (3" Cone), Gestures (Requires Both Hands), Does not work against Desolids.


Are these built properly? If they are, I will definitely include Foot Stomp, and will probably include Thunderclap with my practice toon. (With the Thunderclap, I would probably have to state 'vs. Hearing'.)

[Blackberry]

Yes, you must specify the senses affected by Flash.

Why is a thunderclap Nonselective? Keep in mind that Nonselective is not the opposite of Selective; Nonselective means a separate attack roll is made against every target in the area.

[Lucius]

I know for a fact that I want at least one level of Hardened rPD and rED for Allura. Even in real life, street punks are armed with AP bullets. The question is how many levels do I really need for a starting toon? I mean, even the most heartless GM wouldn't throw a brand new toon against Doc Destroyer!

Or would he . . . ? :sneaky:

If you're doing "Toon Hero" - a game centered around Toons, like the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit - you probably won't meet Dr. Destroyer in any case.

If you want to play that, and you can get a role playing game called "Toon" I highly recommend it. That is one style of play where I might suggest a different rules set than Hero, because I think Toon does toons very well. At the least, it should be good for some inspiration.

If you're playing in a more "normal" game - like a straight super hero, comic book type game of Champions - and want your character to be a toon, you should look for powers that simulate the abilities of a "toon." For example, some serious Regeneration with Resurrection, to simulate a toon's ability to be crushed, burned, or otherwise totally destroyed and still come back. Technically there should be something that stops Resurrection from working; that can be "dip" if you're playing in the Roger Rabbit universe, otherwise talk it over with whoever's running the game. Also, consider putting a Limitation on many of your powers: Only If It's Funny.

Lucius Alexander

Riding a palindromedary to Toontown and back

[ghost-angel]

I pictured Toon Destroyer.

I came up with Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

[New Hero]

When I used the word 'toon', I merely meant my hero. I guess I've been playing City of Heroes a lot lately.

[bigbywolfe]

When I used the word 'toon', I merely meant my hero. I guess I've been playing City of Heroes a lot lately.

CoH refers to the player's characters as "toons"?

[New Hero]

Well, our Super Group does.

[Chris Goodwin]

It's fairly common on MMOs for players to refer to their characters as "toons". I don't know where it got started.

[Thia Halmades]

10 Points Life Support: Immunity All Toxins/Poisons

Physical Limitation: Fruit Juice Gets Her Drunk (Infrequently, Slightly) 5pts

Sorry I'm late.

*dusts off bits of goblinoid* Yech. Anyway. You titled this wrong, g-a; clearly, this physical limitation is called Cheap Date. :D

[New Hero]

Sorry I'm late.

*dusts off bits of goblinoid* Yech. Anyway. You titled this wrong, g-a; clearly, this physical limitation is called Cheap Date. :D

That's cute, Thia. Welcome to the thread! :thumbup: (But you have to remember that Allura is of another species. Her naughty bits might not be where you expect them to be, and therefore, might send some poor slob home with a royal case of his testicles turning color to a purplish-blue.)

LOL

[Lord Liaden]

I pictured Toon Destroyer.

I came up with Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Good suggestion, g-a. But personally, I'd go with Doktoberfest! (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1646872) :D

[Alibear]

I'll be sure to say hello to anyone at The 'Fest sporting on of those T-Shirts.

[New Hero]

Whoops! Has it been that long since I posted? Yikes! Sorry about that!

The Brick that I'm creating (just defenses and attacks) is progressing along at a snail's pace. It's about as vanilla as it gets. I'd like to top my vanilla with a few chocolate sprinkles, and have my Brick have a car.

Question: Would having to fill the gas tank and perform regular maintenance on the vehicle from time to time be a Limitation or a Vehicle's Disadvantage?

[ghost-angel]

Physical Limitation on the Vehicle.

Infrequently, Slightly

[New Hero]

How many points of Disads does a Vehicle get (or need)?

[ghost-angel]

Typically - a Vehicle is built on the same Base Points as the Character.

It's outlined under the Vehicle/Base Perk how the points work out.

[New Hero]

Thanks. Like I said, A snail's pace. lol

[New Hero]

Are there any other 'Standard' Disads that all Vehicles have?

i.e. 'Only on Appropriate terrain', etc . . .

[pinecone]

Are there any other 'Standard' Disads that all Vehicles have?

i.e. 'Only on Appropriate terrain', etc . . .

CBM (Clumsy but mobile-1/2) used to be a fav for equipment installed....for a "super" vehicle Distinc looks, for comedy Unluck ("To the snailmobile!" "Um...where are the tires?")

Only on roads/smooth surfaces, Rep: The Snailcar!....you know, whatever....but it has to make sense for a car/vehicle....if you have the books a very nice supercar can be had for around 26 pts....

[New Hero]

All I have (Book-Wise) is the 5th Edition Revised Book. :(

[Lucius]

All I have (Book-Wise) is the 5th Edition Revised Book. :(

It's all you need, although something like The Ultimate Vehicle could give you some ideas.

Lucius Alexander

Getting ideas from a palindromedary

[pinecone]

All I have (Book-Wise) is the 5th Edition Revised Book. :(

Dude, all you need is a friend who has them...;)"Wow dude, I heard this is totally awesome! You should get it!"

[New Hero]

On the Vehicle, do I have to buy 'Change Environment: Create Light' to simulate the headlights?

Or an Entangle to simulate the seat belts?

Not sure how to build the air bags . . . :confused: :help:

[ghost-angel]

Headlights, Seatbelts and even Airbags are often considered Every Vehicle Equipment.

[Pattern Ghost]

If he doesn't use the car to fight crime I'd write it up like this:

Description: Blah blah blah.... and drives a 2009 Toyota Yaris.

[New Hero]

It'll be his Batmobile, but not as fancy. It'll take him to crime scenes, chase the bad guys, etc., but not have weapons (like in the DarkKnight movies) or transform into a giant robot (like in The Brave and the Bold).

[Lucius]

On the Vehicle, do I have to buy 'Change Environment: Create Light' to simulate the headlights?

Or an Entangle to simulate the seat belts?

Not sure how to build the air bags . . . :confused: :help:

Ghost Angel is correct that common things like this don't need to be bought with points - just as a character doesn't need to pay for two hands, or the powers of sight and hearing.

You might want to LIST all these features, as things to possibly mark off when the vehicle is damaged, or targetted in the case of headlights.

Lucius Alexander

Everypalindromedary

[Sean Waters]

on the vehicle, do i have to buy 'change environment: Create light' to simulate the headlights?

Or an entangle to simulate the seat belts?

not sure how to build the air bags . . . :confused: :help:


+6 com?

[bigbywolfe]

Not sure how to build the air bags . . . :confused: :help:

+6 com?
:rofl:Classy Sean.

[New Hero]

+6 com?

Not THOSE kind of air bags! :rofl: And adding THOSE kind of air bags wouldn't necessarily add +6 COM. In my years, I've seen women almost ruin their beauty by getting implants. (Well, ruin it for me, at any rate). :thumbdown