combination MA manuevers

[drrushing]

I recently purchased and read through several of the new Champions 5th edition books. The characters "Nightwind" and "Jade Phoenix" are interesting, but very "experienced". Some years ago, back in 2nd and 3rd edition, I read about combination manuevers in "Danger, International", at least I think that was the book. Anyway, my GM allowed my character "Nightwatch" to retain the Combo maneuvers I had purchased. Would these manuevers be allowed in a standard game/convention? My reasoning for keeping them was that Nightwatch had received special training (akin to Yengtao)but his abilities were of a purely physical nature, no Chi' or special effects. What's the general opinion about these, are they an illegal opinion now, or an allowed option, or just a cool thing for my local game?

[Tech]

Wow, combo manuevers and Danger International.. it's been awhile since I've read those. I can't answer your question but interested in the answers, also.

[GreyGuardian]

I would bet most Hero games run at conventions HAVE to use pregenerated and provided characters Or will have announced the character generation rules well in advance.

For a home game it is always up to the GM.

[Keneton]

The old combo block counterstike allowed you to abort to attacks. This is clearly prohibted by Fith Edition. Get rid of them.
:)

[Tech]

Originally posted by Keneton
The old combo block counterstike allowed you to abort to attacks. This is clearly prohibted by Fith Edition. Get rid of them.
:)

If you still like the ol' Block-Counterstrike, there's a way around the rules. Try something like:
Damage Shield, only activates with a successful Block manuever, or something like that. Can't look at D.S. right now as I don't have the book in front of me.

[Killer Shrike]

Block with a Damage Shield requires Block was a really easily abused stunt in 4th. In 5th the added cost of DS makes it less tenable.

There are some rules for making custom manuevers in the Ultimate Martial Artist. None of them will let you Abort to an attack, but you could make a manuever with the must follow element, and set it to Must Follow Block. In fact IIRC there is a Counter Strike listed in UMA, which is a Manuever that Must Follow Block -- no doubt a revised version of the old Counter Strike.

[NuSoardGraphite]

If you could scare up an old copy of Ninja Hero for the 4th edition of Hero System, it has a system for Combination attacks like the ones described above.

However:

I believe those rules are no longer necessary, because of the new optional rule for allowing Sweep to hit the same opponent multiple times. Use of this maneuver mixed with various martial arts maneuvers will generate the same effect, just with a higher decrease in CV.
The only thing you can't simulate (by the rules as they are written) is the Block/Strike combo maneuver, but that can be handled via Damage Shield or Trigger. A generous and forgiving GM may allow a Block/Strike type Sweep maneuver. With the decrease in OCV (-2) and DCV (1/2 DCV) and the fact that it takes a full phase pretty much balances it out in my opinion. I would allow such manevuers in certain genres (Anime Fighting or Wuxia Martial arts etc)
Also, don't forget about Multiple Power Attacks. With both MPA's and Sweep in use, mixed with Martial Maneuvers and modestly built Hand attack and HKA powers, any combination maneuver you can imagine should be doable within the scope of the rules....

[talisman]

As a martial artist, I do allow the block/strike combo in my games. In real life, this is actually a very effective technique called trapping (Jet Li is an expert at this, you can also see a lot of it in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), in which you can block/strike, grab/strike, or throw and strike. Of course, if any of my players wants to use these techniques, I actually make him/her learn it so that they know I will control when and where they can use it.

[Tech]

Originally posted by talisman
As a martial artist, I do allow the block/strike combo in my games. In real life, this is actually a very effective technique called trapping (Jet Li is an expert at this, you can also see a lot of it in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), in which you can block/strike, grab/strike, or throw and strike. Of course, if any of my players wants to use these techniques, I actually make him/her learn it so that they know I will control when and where they can use it.

A suggestion for the Block/Attack manuever is simply buy lots of DCV levels only with a particular attack. A miss is as good as a block. By missing, the attackers attack by special effect has been 'blocked'.

I didn't say it's a good suggestion, just that it's a suggestion. Still, it'll work for a campaign without house rules allowing for a dual manuever.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by Tech
A suggestion for the Block/Attack manuever is simply buy lots of DCV levels only with a particular attack. A miss is as good as a block. By missing, the attackers attack by special effect has been 'blocked'.

I didn't say it's a good suggestion, just that it's a suggestion. Still, it'll work for a campaign without house rules allowing for a dual manuever.

Its a perfectly viable solution.

A good way of using this method and differentiating between the DCV levels to block and DCV levels to Dodge is to make DCV levels to block based on a skill roll. If the skill roll is successful, the "block" is effectively successful. A good DCV bonus with this method is +6 (-3 to skill roll) to +8 (-4 to skill roll) which almost garuntees your opponent will miss.

And since this doesn't count as an attack action, you can still "counterattack".

Again however, if you aren't opposed to using Block and Strike in the same phase via Sweep or MPA, then I suggest that method instead, but if you don't want to "violate the rules" then the above method is well within them...

[drrushing]

Thank you for your replies, it was very informative and helpful. In my local campaign, with combination manuevers, I could never Abort, it wasn't allowed when purchasing the combination manuevers. At the very least, it's a neat convention for my character, and makes him more unique. All his manuevers began with a Block, and then Strike, Disarm, and Shove. Recently, with 5th Edition Two-Weapon fighting and Rapid Attack, it really simulates "Movie Martial Arts" ala Jet Li for a relatively cheap price. Also, my character does not have extra DCs to apply, making him much more of a finess MArtist and not a Sledgehammer with good technique. Any further discussion or information would be really appreciated.