Lance of Faith

[badger3k]

Ironically, getting 4e has renewed my interest in Hero. I'm not thrilled with the abilities that the players get, but I was curious as to what they would add up to in Hero. Here is my idea of the Lance of Faith power that a cleric has. It basically does radiant (the new word for "Holy" apparently) damage and gives another player a +2 bonus to hit the same target for their next attack.

I'm basically trying out this "I attack and it aids my ally" mechanic, so what do you think of this:

Lance of Faith: (Total: 43 Active Cost, 12 Real Cost) RKA 1d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (Holy Symbol; -1), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Limited Range: 5" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) <b>plus</b> +2 with All Combat, Usable By Other (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (28 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Only for next attack & only for this target; -1), OAF (Holy Symbol; -1), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Linked (Lance; -1/4) (Real Cost: 7)

I deliberately kept the limitations low, and only threw in the focus and "god's purposes" more as a cleric standard than any system reason.

I figure the link and usable by other is the way to go. Any thoughts on this type of ability?

[Nolgroth]

Looks pretty good.

[Outsider]

The UBO rules say that you grant someone the UBO power, have to maintain LOS to them, etc. Sticking a floating UBO power (skill levels, in this case) to an enemy is a bit iffy, since you can't really say who is going to get to use them when you're 'granting' the power.

I'd say the most book legal way to get the effect you're after would be to Drain 6 DEX from the target, with the limitations that the loss of DEX only reduces DCV & that it all returns immediately after the target is attacked once. Unfortunately, this is a fair bit more expensive than the floating UBO skill level method. 6 DEX = 18 points = 6D6 Drain with Standard Effect = 60 AP instead of 28.

[Eosin]

The UBO rules say that you grant someone the UBO power, have to maintain LOS to them, etc. Sticking a floating UBO power (skill levels, in this case) to an enemy is a bit iffy, since you can't really say who is going to get to use them when you're 'granting' the power.

I'd say the most book legal way to get the effect you're after would be to Drain 6 DEX from the target, with the limitations that the loss of DEX only reduces DCV & that it all returns immediately after the target is attacked once. Unfortunately, this is a fair bit more expensive than the floating UBO skill level method. 6 DEX = 18 points = 6D6 Drain with Standard Effect = 60 AP instead of 28.

I like this.... but.... only one person can take advantage of the +2 to hit bonus. I'd probably run with your version in my game just cause it is sweet. It also hits the spirit of the spell even if it isn't an exact conversion.

[badger3k]

The UBO rules say that you grant someone the UBO power, have to maintain LOS to them, etc. Sticking a floating UBO power (skill levels, in this case) to an enemy is a bit iffy, since you can't really say who is going to get to use them when you're 'granting' the power.

I'd say the most book legal way to get the effect you're after would be to Drain 6 DEX from the target, with the limitations that the loss of DEX only reduces DCV & that it all returns immediately after the target is attacked once. Unfortunately, this is a fair bit more expensive than the floating UBO skill level method. 6 DEX = 18 points = 6D6 Drain with Standard Effect = 60 AP instead of 28.

Thanks for the replies.

The book gave an option of +1/2 so that the target gaining the level doesn't have to stay in sight, and I used a custom modifer in HD for it. It now looks like this:

Lance of Faith: (Total: 51 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) RKA 1d6 (15 Active Points); OAF (Holy Symbol; -1), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Limited Range: 5" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus +2 with All Combat, Usable By Other (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Line of Sight not needed after initial use (+1/2) (36 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Only for next attack & only for this target; -1), OAF (Holy Symbol; -1), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Linked (Lance; -1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

If this looks good, it can serve as the basis for other "aid other" powers.

Does the -1 limitation for both limits seem good (I had to spell it out as this is only good for the very next attack the gaining character makes, and only then if it is for the same target)?

edit 2 - I also did not think of whether the ability to choose who gets the aid would be an issue. The linked power goes off on a hit with the lance, and I didn't see anything about it having to affect the same target. This only seems to apply with attack powers.

[badger3k]

The UBO rules say that you grant someone the UBO power, have to maintain LOS to them, etc. Sticking a floating UBO power (skill levels, in this case) to an enemy is a bit iffy, since you can't really say who is going to get to use them when you're 'granting' the power.

I'd say the most book legal way to get the effect you're after would be to Drain 6 DEX from the target, with the limitations that the loss of DEX only reduces DCV & that it all returns immediately after the target is attacked once. Unfortunately, this is a fair bit more expensive than the floating UBO skill level method. 6 DEX = 18 points = 6D6 Drain with Standard Effect = 60 AP instead of 28.

You could also do AE, or environemental control, or... (ain't Hero wonderful!) - there is also the optional negative skill levels under the combat skill level.

The dex drain (and other) constructions would also work, they just won't be as specific for who attacks the target. We could put in a short duration for the drain (one turn? phase? hmm), or set the recovery to be one of the creatures phases or the first attack that hits it. Of perhaps do it as an aid triggered to the first character to attack it. Hmmmm. :bounce:

This simple exercise already has me eager to play around some more. :thumbup:

[Maelstrom]

How about using Change Environment to give your whole party a +2 to OCV? Might require careful positioning, but isn't that what D&D is all about? :)

[badger3k]

How about using Change Environment to give your whole party a +2 to OCV? Might require careful positioning, but isn't that what D&D is all about? :)

Going the whole party only, wouldn't that be an AE - selective?

[The Monster]

I'd say the most book legal way to get the effect you're after would be to Drain 6 DEX from the target, with the limitations that the loss of DEX only reduces DCV & that it all returns immediately after the target is attacked once. Unfortunately, this is a fair bit more expensive than the floating UBO skill level method. 6 DEX = 18 points = 6D6 Drain with Standard Effect = 60 AP instead of 28.
Use Suppress rather than Drain. It only costs 5 per die (thus 30 Active), and already has the full return on expiration.

[1EyedJack]

You could also buy negative skill levels useable at range, however power defense defeats negative skill levels on a one for one basis.

[Outsider]

I like this.... but.... only one person can take advantage of the +2 to hit bonus. I'd probably run with your version in my game just cause it is sweet. It also hits the spirit of the spell even if it isn't an exact conversion.

The initial post said that the lance :



gives another player a +2 bonus to hit the same target for their next attack."


How I read it :
"Another player" = the next person to attack the creature, whoever they might be
"Their next attack" = the next single attack made on the target, but not subsequent ones.

Maybe I was misreading it.

In any case, I still think the best way to go would be an adjustment power, rather than negative skill levels.

[badger3k]

The initial post said that the lance :



How I read it :
"Another player" = the next person to attack the creature, whoever they might be
"Their next attack" = the next single attack made on the target, but not subsequent ones.

Maybe I was misreading it.

In any case, I still think the best way to go would be an adjustment power, rather than negative skill levels.

Yeah - the power gave one character (chosen by the lance of faith user) a bonus to their next attack, so long as they attacked the same target.

[Istaran]

Of some minor relevance, +2 to an attack is not the same as -2 DCV in Hero. Because the -2 DCV would be halved or zeroed in various situations. When the target's DCV is 1/2d or 0d, your ally still has +2 to hit.