MONSTERS, MINIONS, AND MARAUDERS -- What Would *You* Like To See?

[Steve Long]

So, it's time for another "what would you like to see in this book?" threads. ;)

First, a brief word of explanation. Monsters, Minions, And Marauders was originally intended to be a sort of two-sectioned book. One section would have a lot of "generic" monsters that weren't in the HSB; the other would have "named" enemies from the Turakian Age setting. I've recently decided to drop the "named" enemies section, partly because I'm leery of trying to write enemies for a setting that I only have sketchy notes for so far, and partly for various other reasons.

The upshot it, this leaves me some room in the book, so I thought I'd ask what people would be interested in seeing in it.

As it stands, the content of MMM is "generic" monsters that did not make it into the HSB (typically because they were inappropriate for that book). This includes:

-- a huge slew of "humanoid" monsters (orcs, ogres, giants, trolls, goblins, lizard-men, shark-men, and so on)
-- some more demons and dragons
-- "dark" (evil) versions of some standard races like dwarves
-- a few mythological or legendary creatures that weren't in the HSB
-- some more undead

...and so on. There will probably also be some "generic" human opponents -- generic barbarian warrior, generic knight, generic city guard, and so on -- for GMs that find such things useful.

So, what else would you like to see in the book? I am mainly looking for suggestions for more types of monsters and so forth. Please keep in mind that this is a Fantasy Hero product, not a book of general application like the HSB. Furthermore, I do not want suggestions about changing the nature of the product, about adding cultural or societal notes for monsters (since MMM's not a setting book), or the like. Other than that, anything that seems pertinent and useful to you, feel free to suggest. (One other "out" -- faerie-folk and like monsters. That's a subject big enough for its own book, and I intend to give it one in conjunction with Tuala Morn.)

[OddHat]

1) Monsters with solid genre-cross over potential, especially plane/dimension traveling beasts.

2) Cthuloid/Quipthotic Horrors, and their human/humanoid servants. Things to scare the beejezus out of my players.

3) Plot hooks for some of the more interesting monsters.

4) Comedy monsters. Small dragons that explode if you frighten them, horrible slimy things that want to be friendly, little trainable imps that run faux-technology by hiding inside and working a crank.

5) Low point cost beasts appropriate for summoning or shape changing.

6) Lots of sample familliars.

[OddHat]

Almost forgot:

7) Verminax and other things my mages can make deals with.

8) Spirits, Angels, Avatars and Loa.

9) Talking animals. Talking trees. Argumentative rocks. Something just between fairy tale wise fox in the woods and Warner Brothers creepy everything is alive animation. :)

10) How about some serious and less serious sentient magic items?

[TechnoViking]

That is a hard one since HSB covers so much. Here is what I can come up with.

1. Mythological or Legendary creatures fro,m Mid-East and Far East literature. Djinn and Ono come to mind, but there are a ton you could do. Chinesse Dragons would be cool

2. Monsters of the epics. Grendel and Midgard "The World Serpent" .

3. With any Humanoid creature you write up, you may want to include the Racial Package Deal for that creature.

4. Armies: Maybe mass combat writes for common fantasy units/armies.

5. Undead:
a. Revenauts - undead that hunt down their killers.
b. Charon/Grim Reaper/Death's Hand - Undead that collect the souls of the recently dead for the afterlife.
c. Lich - Undead Nercomancer.
You may want to make spells for making undead and bring the dead back to life in this section, if that is not already in the Grimoire.

Have more later,
Mike

[Tempuswolf]

How about some exotic draft and riding animals:

plane shifting horses
horses that run on air (ala Krull)
giant cave rabbits
giant flying fish
huge slugs
leafy hippocampi

to go with each more humanoid marauder. Iron Age and earlier tech makes extensive use of animals for transportation or muscle power in general.

[AnotherSkip]

enough stuff to run a full aquatic campaign.

I deas for making the critters into "Lords Of Evil" in their own right. (ie why would an Orc become te leader of an Orcish nation...)

[BobGreenwade]

I'll second the requests for comedic monsters and riding steeds.

Also, since the book will by default be used as a monsters book for the HERO Games three fantasy settings (whether it's intended to focus that way or not), you might consider basing the "animal-men" beings on animal-based alien species in the science-fiction settings. That would give the settings a greater sense of continuity, including some potential story hooks for how they got from their homeworlds to Earth (or vice versa).

[Steve Long]

Giant riding cave rabbits....

Well, I have to admit that's one I wouldn't've thought of myself.... ;)

[eepjr24]

I will second Epic monsters, at least a few. Always fun to throw one of those in a lull.

I would also like to have aquatic versions of the humanoids (sea elves, mergoblins, etc). Not necessarily entirely separate, just the stats that change and abilities added / lost.

Perhaps a few other environment spcific creatures? Things that live in lava, tunnel through the dirt or never leave the upper atmosphere? Maybe the odd abandoned castle / dungeon specific monster like the carrion crawler, gelatinous cube, mimic?

You are probably doing this already, but I would also love to see the weapons commonly used with each entry.

- Ernie

[OddHat]

I want tunnel building giant worms that eat rock and excrete gems and gold. Furthermore, their bodily fluids attract and nourish a wide variety of underground dwelling creatures (including orcs, trolls, bugbears, various slimes and jellys, etc.) and act as a sedative, preventing said creatures from preying on one-another. Of course, the scent of human sweat breaks the sedative effect, causing the underground dwellers to attack those adventurers foolish enough to brave the tunnels, and of course the fluids soaked into the walls raise human corpses as undead.
:D

Plot Seed: The local King contacts your PCs. The land is suffering from an infestation of Dung-Eon Worms. If they're not stopped soon, the land will be overwhelmed by the dark hords attracted by the stench...

[Hierax]

MONSTERS

Not just monsters themselves (lots of them of course!) but also:

Suggestions/advice/guidelines on how to build your own Fantasy Monsters; i.e., How to make monsters feel Fantasy-like; what makes fantasy monsters different from superhero monsters, from horror monsters, from sci-fi aliens, etc.

Familiars, man you gotta have familiars with all kindza special powers! Just ask what kind of character would Osiris play in Fantasy Hero? ;) As a Hero? As a villain? Turn the mundane into the fantastic. Housecat cool (well soft and warm) but mundane, hellcat familiar to diabolical necromancer lich lord supreme hellfire hot and fantastic.

animal (and monster) companions for all types of characters not just wizards. fantastic mounts for knights, sneaky for theives, deadly for assassins, etc.

Magical monsters, if magic is part of the environment that makes a Fantasy world fantastic, have monsters that have adapted to magic in usual ways. Pro-magic and Anti-magic monsters.

Some fantasy monsters are intelligent variations on animials, how might their kind of intelligence be different than humanoids - what sort of different outlook? Have psychological disadvantages that reflect this and make them feel different than humans.

Building blocks for pieces of monsters that you can assemble -- like in Champions and the USPD.


MINIONS

Again, tons of examples but also:

Present a variety of power levels of these essential NPCs that form the basis of comparison for the Heroes; Heroes will compare themselves to these everyday folk and this will determine how strong they feel in the campaign. If the average guard has characteristics of 8 and only WF it is different than if they have DEX 13 and CSLs. The more powerful the basic minions, the more power inflation will affect the Heroic PCs, offer a variety of minions for the different power levels of various Fantasy Hero campaigns.

Briefly revisit the discussion about the balance of power levels from 1st ed. Fantasy Hero (97f.), 1st ed. Spell Book (p.20f.), and HS Almanac (p.84f.) and update it for the 5th ed. so that GMs can carefully consider the implications of DEX, CSL, OCV, DC, DEF, rDEF, etc. as well as total points when designing monsters or other NPCs so that encounters can be more easily balanced.


Maurauders

Not really sure what the Maurauders part is...


OVERALL

Give us lots of character write-ups but also squeeze a few pages of advice in with the examples to give some context and guidelines to help in designing our own balanced write-ups and making them feel like Fantasy creatures and characters. And give options for various power levels.

Oh, yeah, absolutely jam-pack those side bars! -- white space looks nice but the usefulness of examples and variations far outweighs the white space.

I'm sure it'll be yet another great HERO book but I'm always greedy for more!

[Monolith]

I am sure I am in the minority here, but I would have preferred the Turakian Age characters myself. Having a tie-in with the campaign world is what makes the book unique to me. It is because of the little bits of information about the campaign world in the write-ups that I would want to buy it. I would much rather read about the Blood Orcs of Grunralk and the Tree Orcs of Purndar then to just see generic orcs with a plains and tree option.

There must be at least a couple of dozen generic “monster manual” books for d20 already in publication. That seems like more than enough source material to base generic creatures on to me. I was hoping for something with more life like CKC rather than something more plain like the Bestiary. To me it is the color commentary which makes a creature interesting, now whether it does 1d6 or 2d6 HKA.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Monolith
I am sure I am in the minority here, but I would have preferred the Turakian Age characters myself. Having a tie-in with the campaign world is what makes the book unique to me. It is because of the little bits of information about the campaign world in the write-ups that I would want to buy it. I would much rather read about the Blood Orcs of Grunralk and the Tree Orcs of Purndar then to just see generic orcs with a plains and tree option...Snipped...I was hoping for something with more life like CKC rather than something more plain like the Bestiary. To me it is the color commentary which makes a creature interesting, now whether it does 1d6 or 2d6 HKA.

Strongly agreed.

[Polaris]

I think this fits into this book:

1. I would like to see giants (hill giants, frost giants, storm giants, and the like). These are good for quick adventures, and to help newer hunting parties (kinda like some GMs use Grond in Champions).

2. Perhaps my favorite enemy in fantasy: Gnolls!

3. I am confident you are already planning on various undead creatures, but in case not, I would throw that in as a suggestion to. Undead are just too convenient to have stats for (clerics in group.. paladins... party moving through plains... want to establish an evil necromancer, etc).

4. I am glad that you are planning on evil versions of player races... evil dwarves, evil elves/Drow, etc.

5. Dragons of various kinds. In our fantasy game, dragons are extremely wise, and tend to be benevolent but a bit arrogant. There is a religion in our gameworld that worships dragons, and helps preserve the natural supply of dragonberries (which the dragons, of course eat... and some like to make into a very potent wine). Good dragons, bad dragons, and in between dragons. :)

That rounds out the top 5 of my wish list for the book. Thanks Steve for taking suggestions...:)

Polaris

[yongi]

Count me in for critters from other mythologies - Chinese, Indian, Samoan, Apache, whatever. Anything outside the traditional western European would make me happy.

Oh, and thanks for asking,
-y-

[Doctor Agenda]

Two words: Mole Men. I'm not sure which age is what, but either way there should be some of those Lemurian Mole Men running around in the deepest caverns. In other words, tie in some Champions Universe timeline stuff.

Although I'm sure there won't be enough room for all my favorite fantasy critters from cultures around the world, some suggestions on using writeups to represent different critters would be welcome, of the Oni is equivalent to a Yaksha is equivalent to a Giant Hag variety.Options for customizing always welcome.

[Hierax]

I agree the setting specific flavoured ones are far better tasting than the generic ones.

Ideally, I'd like to see a book full of monsters, a book full of characters, and a book full of spells for each of the official Fantasy Hero settings.

e.g., I'd love to see an uber write-up for Takofanes where he is in his fantasy element with all of the native flavour of his own era where we can see what really makes him tick -- far better than a generic fantasy lich.

Steve, if you're dropping the named portions from MMaM does that mean that there might be setting-specific monster, character, etc. books for the Turakian and Valdorian Ages that expand upon the setting books themselves or will these named entries only be in the setting books?

That all said, I think that generic monsters, minions, etc. are great so long as we aren't losing any of the named ones. It would be best to have both. Again, I'm greedy and want all the FH stuff you can give us!

P.S. BTW, what is the estimated page count for MMaM?

[Hierax]

Another thing I'd like to see is racially specific/perspective monster variations:

In a way "monsters" are creatures that the normal races fear and become heroes by facing these personified fears and conquering them.

Humans have their own kinds of undead and demons that play on their own fears; how would other races undead and demons differ from the human standard? I mean you could just slap a vampire package on top of a dwarf, elf, or halfling but it would be far more flavourful to have a write-up for the race that was distinctively different.

e.g., If elves are immortal (or near so) would they fear death less? If so, what sort of fears would replace this and how could that be projected to create different monsters that played upon those fears that were distinctly different?

Not really a specific request but something to think about in making some neat new monsters seeping in fantasy flavour.

[Steve Long]

I would also like to have aquatic versions of the humanoids (sea elves, mergoblins, etc). Not necessarily entirely separate, just the stats that change and abilities added / lost.

Perhaps a few other environment spcific creatures? Things that live in lava, tunnel through the dirt or never leave the upper atmosphere?

We've already got those. Take a creature from the HSB -- or from MMM, once it's available -- and apply the appropriate templates and such from the HSB. Voila, lava worms, sea hobgoblins, infernal giants, divine manticores, whatever you want. ;) I'd rather provide the tools for you to mix-and-match and create what you want than waste endless page space doing variations on major creatures.

I am sure I am in the minority here, but I would have preferred the Turakian Age characters myself. Having a tie-in with the campaign world is what makes the book unique to me. It is because of the little bits of information about the campaign world in the write-ups that I would want to buy it. I would much rather read about the Blood Orcs of Grunralk and the Tree Orcs of Purndar then to just see generic orcs with a plains and tree option.

This response seems to assume, at least in part, that the "named" enemies stuff won't ever appear. That's absolutely incorrect. I still have every intention of writing a book of enemies for the Turakian Age setting (and similar books for other settings, if sales justify). I'm just not going to do it now for the reasons stated in my original post.

[Eodin]

Hmm...
MONSTERS...Fleas that feed on spirits instead of blood, Animate creatures of sand that swallow whole caravans, cave of wonders (and horrors), mana mosquitos, elemental rats, and so forth.

MINIONS...Intelligent amulets, pinnochio-style puppets, "Mordenkainen's Hound", Spirits of departed pets, as well as the usual familiars.

MARAUDERS...Bandit gangs, Pirate crews, Viking raiders, Mercenary units (both all warriors and all wizards versions), Hill giant raiders, Werewolf packs, Slaver organizations, and tips on effectively and "realisiticly" (NOT B-movie style) using them.

[MisterD]

Opponents for different character 'classes'
A town guard for a Rogue class
A witch huinter for a wizard
A zeaolt for a prienst (opposite religion)
That sort of thing.

With plot seeds.

Antagonist of different levels. (Pick Pocket to Lich lord)

with plot seeds.


Different mounts for different classes or races.

Some denizens of heaven and hell.



A nice Dwarven woman with a beard you can.... (Surry. Flash back to the Dungeons and Dragon's movie.)

[Mr. Negative]

I'd really like to see monsters with notes as to whether they are appropriate for High, Low, and/or Swords and Sorcery Fantasy. Having done so, I'd also like to see that there are roughly an equal number of "monsters" for each system.

I have a real trouble coming up with specific examples here, but I'd like to see both monsters that could only exist in worlds with powerful magic, who could only be dealt with by the most puissant of heroes, and monsters who aren't totally fantastic, and could be dealt with using a crossbow.

To give you some ideas from Lankhmar, one of my most favorite settings:

Snow Serpents (long, white, furry, venomous snakes)
Intelligent, sword wielding octopi
Cloakers
Intelligent Rats
Ghost Wolves
Ghouls (humans with invisible flesh, but visible bones)

Not that I want to see these things in particular, but many, many "beastie books" emphasize very powerful and magical beings, and I'd like to see a good selection of lower-powered, and strange, but not necessarily fantastic monsters. Also, extended write ups of common NPC types (particularly those you encounter in combat) would be GREAT.

Assassins, thugs, cultists, city guards, drunken ruffians, surly noblemen, brigands, bandits, pirates, slavers, etc. All of these would be great (and would be very useful to those of us running low fantasy and Swords and Sorcery campaigns).

Also useful would be ideas on adapting "more fantastic" monsters to low fantasy and Swords and Sorcery campaigns. For example, you might suggest that "low fantasy" dragons might be of animal intelligence, unable to fly (or only to fly with difficulty), be limited in size (20 feet or so), and have poisonous spittle instead of a breath weapon.

I'd also love to see more folkloric supernatural creatures (again, useful for low fantasy and S&S). While I know that some of these are to be saved for a "fairy folk" idea, doing creatures such as the Black Dog, banshee, etc. would be very useful.

Finally, monsters that fit into a Horror fantasy setting (like Ravenloft) would also be appreciated. While a healthy helping of Undead is great, including creatures such as flesh golems, and giving GM tips on using monsters in a "horror milieu" rather than a "heroic" milieu would also be great.

So, to summarize my very long list:

Monsters for low fantasy and swords and sorcery
Commonly encountered opponents
Monsters from Folklore
Monsters appropriate to horror rather than heroic fantasy

[Victor]

How about making monster writeups be more easily scaled to different point levels?

It would be handy to have a base set of stats and powers, followed by one or more packages to upgrade them (or downgrade them, if it's easier to go that route) to other power levels. That way there would be ready made monsters for a wider variety of campaign point spreads.

[Nightfly]

I would like to see demonic races that aren't evil.

Joss Whedon, through his Buffy franchise, has succeeded pretty well at redefining demons to be very much like animal/humanoid species. (i.e., not every Demon is bad).
It'd be sweet to see some races of (clearly) demon, who've discarded their evil nature and've now become useful members of (whatever genre) society. Struggling against their evil/demonic nature(s).

Another example would be Martin Short's evil Gnome (who turns good) in the Sam Neill Merlin tv-movie.

And just as a general rule,...Dragons, Dragons & more Dragons.

Also, how about some traditional Alien species (such as the Roswell Grays).

Some parasitic (body-snatcher / symbiot) type critters could be cool too.

[tabascojunkie]

i second Oddhat's motion of Cthulhu style monsters. i'm a huge Lovecraft fan and one of these days i'll try to put together a fantasy mixed with cults trying to bring the Great Old Ones back and some sanity blasting formless spawn from beyond human understanding would be just the thing.

[Nightfly]

Evil items could be cool too...
Possessed armor, etc

[Ulryk]

A number of sprirts for shamans. (not undead, but totem spirits and summonable spirits.)

A lot of demons with a heirarchy and power structure for demonologists.

[Old Man]

You could do thinly disguised versions of popular Monster Manual critters, so as to make it easier for GMs to adapt published adventures from That Other Game until DOJ publishes some of its own.

And I know Hero is all about generic fantasy, but Hero should have some unique, signature monsters of its own. In particular I'd like to see an attempt to make a 'bad guy' race that is so evil and unique that it supplants orcs as the standard baddie in fantasy. I have slain tens of thousands of orcs in my day; I want to kill something different for a change.

[Herolover]

I want to emphasize the fact that I want generic characters, not necessarily monsters, that I can through at my pc';s.

Generic City Guard.
Generic Bandit.
Generic Thief
Generic Fighter
Generic Cleric
Generic Infantry
Generic Calvary
Generic Knight
on...and on...and on.

I can list more if you need them, but you get the idea. I wouldn't even give them any serious text just stats would be good.

Also for each you could have the basic 100pt, then options to boost it up to 150pts then more options to go up to 200pts or some other point levels.

[Steve Long]

Thanx for all the suggestions, folx! Keep 'em comin'!

At the risk of seeming ungrateful, though, let me point out a couple of things:

1. I'm seeing some requests for things that are already published in the HSB. Please double-check your copy of HSB before suggesting something that seems "basic." Since we're not going to reprint any of that stuff, what I'd most prefer is suggestions for new stuff for MMM.

2. This is a Fantasy Hero book. It's not a sci-fi book or a horror book or anything like that, so monsters or creatures primarily associated with non-Fantasy genres aren't appropriate for it. For instance, I would definitely like to do a book at some point where we could write up Greys (Roswell-style aliens) -- but I definitely don't intend to put 'em in a collection of Fantasy monsters. ;)

3. Don't get hung up on the name (unless it helps organize your thoughts or something). I'm not organizing the monsters into three categories, any more than I organized the villains in CKC into three categories based on that title. I just like three-word alliterative titles for enemies books. ;)

[OddHat]

A semi-sentient creature that lives by creating halucinatory terains through some sort of AOE:Mental Illusions, then just waits for its prey (the players) to starve to death or die of exposure. Perfect for running psychadelic adventures without dimension hopping or changing the entire world.

Also, dream creatures. Not incubi/sucubi, creatures that live in and on dreams.

[BobGreenwade]

Additional thoughts....

1) Some of the comedic monsters can fall under the header of, "It's only funny until it happens to you." This would include things like twelve-foot-tall squirrels with nine-inch fangs and flames shooting from their eyes, clumsy flightless birds with highly toxic feathers, or crowds of marauders with "Mad Viking Syndrome" (demolishing everything in their path).

2) In the "real world" department, you could put in a few more species of dinosaurs, and other prehistorically-extinct creatures (such as the apteryx). It would take a bit of research, but if you can manage 15-20 pages of it I think it'd be worth it. :D

3) Don't forget plants. Carnivorous or toxic trees and bushes can always make for an interesting encounter, even if they're not powerful enough to be life-threatening. You could even expand a bit on the "Deadly Ooze" (HSB page 47) to give GMs a few "viscous beasts" to work with. ;)

4) A short section (probably a quick appendix) on using parts of animals, beasts, and creatures in alchemical potions could give GMs a lot of cool plot hooks.

[Starwolf]

I would really like to see a side bar or index with a summoning table. I.E. a list of 50 point creatures, a list of 100 point creatures, a list of 250 points creatures. This list should not be a master list of creatures but rather a list of creatures appropriate for summoning (.i.e. Demons, spirits, familiars, etc).

[Geryon]

I second someone's opinion that some FH "signature" creatures would be cool. Just as Orcs, Umber Hulks, and the Tarrasque defined D&D, it would be neat to come up with a few monsters (hopefully very new and unique ones) which would be the sort of things that would end up on the cover of the book. I also really like the idea of trying to include an equal (or close to it) number of monsters for the different fantasy subgenres. Grendel-like uber-monsters and Sauron-like demon king types for epic fantasy, typical stuff for high fantasy, some monsters for swords & sorcery and low fantasy as well. I also like the idea of little one line plot hooks for different monsters.

[Storn]

Originally posted by Starwolf
I would really like to see a side bar or index with a summoning table. I.E. a list of 50 point creatures, a list of 100 point creatures, a list of 250 points creatures. This list should not be a master list of creatures but rather a list of creatures appropriate for summoning (.i.e. Demons, spirits, familiars, etc).

That is an excellent suggestion. I second the notion.

I also like the idea of trying to come up with something fresh... even if it isn't connected to Turkinian. If it could come slithering out of Chris Avellone's fevered imagination complete with purple prose... we should probably put a couple of those kind of ideas in there. Y'know, disgusting, horrible, demonic thingamajings. I'm not suggesting channeling Avellone for the whole book... gods no.. one would go insane. But for a couple of the entries....

[Storn]

... and Lord Duq du Foxbat as the inept Paladin monster hunter, class, archtype...whatever.

[keithcurtis]

I assume you're more looking for style or categorical sggestions than "I have a neat idea for a monster" suggestions. In that light:

1) A small section on how the creatures/opponents might work together. i.e. think how effective it would have been in the LotR if Gwaihir and his folk each had a Lothlorien archer upon his back? How could these creatures interact to tactical advantage?
In a similar light, suggestions for creating "enemy parties".

2) When you are adaping a beast from folklore, you could cite the cultural source. If there are equally valid takes on a creature, list how the creature should be adapted. Example: A Welsh troll shoudld be different from a Scandinavian troll. For the first, give it more strength and armor, for the other, regeneration.
How do Chinese dragons differ from European dragons, etc.

3) On a related note, somewhere in the entry note the milieu common to the creature. This might be helpful in creating a particular "flavor" of fantasy. This could either be done in the write-up, or you could list common genres in the back along with creatures that would go with them. Example, the entry on "Arabian Nights" style fantasy could include Rocs, elephants, phoenixes, etc. Many folks have a hodge-podge fantasy world where different geographic areas mimic different historical archetypes: "This is the Classical Greece area of my world." Lists like this would be helpful in designing encounters that feel right.
These lists could include references to write-ups in the HSB, which contains many generic, yet regional creatures.


4) Avoid adapting D&D as much as possible. D&D already does D&D very well.


I realize I have mentioned some beasts already in the HSB. I have done this as shorthand, since I don't know what is going to be in MMM. The suggestions are still valid, though.


Keith ":(Still don't have Fantasy Hero:(" Curtis

[Eodin]

Steve,
As you're very well aware of, each person's idea of Fantasy is widely varied. Some people like D&D monsters, some want nothing to do with D&D. Some people consider aliens visiting, like the movie Krull, to be appropriate fantasy.
What I think would be the most useful is probably not going to fit in one book.
First, there should be more templates to use in building critters, so that building an Aboleth is taking the basic large fish, adding to it the templates for telepathic species, for survive deep oceans, and making it intelligent and evil (appropriate Psych Lims).
There should be some of the creatures from various myths, of course...the Welsh? black hounds, the Chinese ogres, and so forth. And there should be options/templates to convert them to other monsters.
Also, some writeups of monster-like powers, such as a template so that the creature feeds on souls instead of blood, or mana intead of blood, the kinds of things that make a creature into a MONSTER. Creatures are somewhat scary...spiders and snakes, oh my. But Monsters should be SCARY.
The other thing that would be really useful is groups of "generic" villains...bandits, pirates, bounty hunters, orcish raiders, and the like. With FH and HSB we can create some of those, but what I'm talking about is more from a group view. For example, if my group of 6 players is going to run into a group of pirates in one of the ports they travel to, what guidelines should I follow in point level, skills, tactics, for these pirates to make it memorable? funny? dangerous? deadly serious? etc.
And finally, don't forget to put in the monsters you didn't put in HSB because you said they belonged in the Fantasy genre ;)

[AnotherSkip]

How about more "low' point monsters.

in D&D there are scads of low monsters from simple skeletons, rats, and zombies and Orcs etc...


in HERO a Zombie/skeleton is 170+
(more than most starting characters by 20 points) with almost all of it in combat effectiveness (how many Zombies have Turkarian High Society knowledge skills ?!!!?!?!)

[Rob_Knotts]

All I can think to ask is that you don't restrict inspiration to just books or movies. I'm sure I don't have to remind the folks that publish Champions that comics have alway included a lot of great ideas for fantasy, although I get the feeling that they're often overlooked by game authors.

Also, don't be shy about looking to videogames for idea for creatures. I know some people stigmatize video games as juvenile, but I've seen some monsters in games I could only dream of seeing in a major motion picture.

Lastly, don't overlook b-movies, both fantasy and horror. A lot of these feature monsters no major motion picture would touch (Pumpkinhead and Deep Rising come to mind). Along the same lines, horror monsters often work just as well in fantasy settings: the Alien monster would be just as scary in a dwarven mine or isolated castle, the Kothoga creature from Relic would probably work better in fantasy, the Cen(t)obites from Hellraiser are perfect for sophisticted demons... I could go on but I'm starting to have flashbacks of watching late night cable during my teens....:rolleyes:

[Jkeown]

Several years ago I read in Adventurer's Club about how to incorporate NPCs into an FH game. I was fairly amused by it. My games are always NPC-oriented, As such Monsters are less of a concern for me than Races I can make into NPCs. Intelligent creatures, humanoids, talking slime, whatever...

That said, there is the whole concept of the Unique monster, Talos, the (original) Terrasque, Scylla, Grendel or any of hundreds of other one-shot critters. A short description of critter's habitat would be nice as well...

The Arkoshoon lives in a sun-blasted desert, the gaudian of the secrest long held beneath the burning sands...

Note how it says a sun-blasted desert not The Bargoyan Expanse which is setting specific....

Sounds like fun to me...

[Talon]

Sure, wait until I've left work to start the thread. :)

Some sort of measure of the creature's effectiveness and power level. One of the most frequent questions here is "I'm new to Hero, how do I balance heroes against NPCs?" I don't expect a full-blown effectiveness rating system -- even a simple note would be better than nothing.
In that vein, a few pre-defined groups (in particular for Marauders) would make a great appendix. Ideally, this would be in "ready to run" state: equipment, tactics, etc all provided for a couple different power levels, so the GM could turn to the 50+50 section and pick something.
Summary Stats. Hero publications have been moving more and more toward the philosophy of giving basic information up front, followed by the full points writeup. Please do the same for this book!
Monsters for a full range of power levels, from 0 point normals to 250+ high fantasy powerhouses.
As previously mentioned, monsters (or more monsters) that can serve for familiars and summon spell targets.
Don't do "thinly veiled" versions of D&D monsters; it makes Hero seem derivative rather than original. Obviously some D&D favorites are going to show up, but I'd rather that be because you're drawing from the same original source material.
That's it for now...

[slaughterj]

Some of this has probably already been said, but I'd like to see:
1. Scalable monsters - e.g., stats for an orc, orc lieu, orc capt, etc., which can effectively be used as different levels of creatures for different point level campaigns (i.e., the orc lieu might be the orc lieu for a 100pt FH game, but be the base orc for a 150pt FH game if so desired).
2. Motivations - overarching goals, reasons to be and act, etc., which can lead to plot seeds.
3. Tactics - a sentence or two regarding general combat tactics of each monster, especially for those with lots of abilities.

[CrosshairCollie]

I'd like to see some non-Western monsters, too, myself, especially Oriental stuff like kitsune, tanuki, tengu, oni (demons) and the like. I don't have the HSB, so I don't know if those have been done or not.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
I'd like to see some non-Western monsters, too, myself, especially Oriental stuff like kitsune, tanuki, tengu, oni (demons) and the like. I don't have the HSB, so I don't know if those have been done or not.
I believe Steve mentioned that Mike Surbrook was working on an oriental bestiary that will be a Hero Plus product.

[Steve Long]

To confirm what Monolith said, Michael Surbrook is currently writing an Asian Bestiary as a sort of mostly-FH-but--a-bit-of-NH-too supplement, probably for Hero Plus. So I won't have any Oriental, Indian, etc. monsters in MMM; no need to plow the same ground twice. ;)

[austenandrews]

Not to be difficult, but if Oriental monsters are fantasy creatures, why shouldn't you put them in the fantasy creature book? At least the popular ones people would expect to find. It seems silly to me to ask for suggestions about filling out "extra pages" when you've got whole stables of critters that people will probably expect.

Small rant: There seems to be a trend in Hero now to spread material out across multiple books. As far as I can tell, it has something to do with being able to categorize rules by function rather than genre. I confess, it's a little irksome to me. It's not as if the genre books don't have large enough page counts to encompass every aspect of each genre. Yet I have to buy The Ultimate Vehicle to get the full rules on vehicles. Fantasy Hero refers the reader to the Grimoire for spell systems, instead of including spell system writeups. The basic 5E rulebook doesn't even have sample characters (!) presumably because we're supposed to buy other products for that.

Maybe this is a marketing strategy to get us to buy more books, but for me it's producing diminishing returns. I can't bring myself to buy TUV simply for the fifteen or so pages that I want. I have no idea what the difference is between The Ultimate Martial Artist and Ninja Hero, but I'm certainly not going to buy NH to find out. Instead, I'm house-ruling the stuff that's not in the basic genre books.

So if you ask me what I want in Hero's Monster Manual, here's my answer: I want every type of fantasy creature I need for my FH game. I don't want to be referred to books I haven't bought. (I won't even get into the inconvenience of e-books.)

Okay, rant over.

-AA

[eepjr24]

AA -

I don't know what your history is with the Hero system, and I am sorry that the way they are producing books bothers you. All I can say in reply is this: In the 10+ years between 4th and 5th edition, many of us would have bought ANY book we could have with new material in it for Hero. I am not going to complain at this point with whatever strategy Steve uses to get books on the shelves. As a matter of fact, I think the manner with which he is releasing them shows incredible business smarts, not that he needs my approval in any way.

In short, sorry you don't want to buy more books, but you have options available since the core books lets YOU build anything you want. Personally, I would rather have more books rather than less.

- Ernie

[Captain Obvious]

I like the way the rules books are published. You have a vehicle heavy campaign, get TUV. You have a martial arts heavy campaign, get UMA. You run a lot of different campaigns, get them all and get a little benefit over each and every campaign you run. If you don't want to get them, that's fine too, because FREd has all you need in it anyway.

Back on topic:

I would like to see templates, templates, templates. Something I can throw onto any creature and make it a unique but similar creature. What makes a Phaeree horse different from a normal horse?

More non-Eurocentric monsters. I understand Mike Surbrook is working on an Asian bestiary (and doing a very complete job of it, if his researches on the message boards are any indicator). Maybe MMM can make room for monsters native to N. American myths, or S. America, or Africa, or Australia, or Polynesia... Lots of good material to mine out there.

Monsters with a traditional feel, even if they are new creations. Too many monsters in fantasy games come across to me as less of a fairy tale beastie and more of a transplanted Cthulhuoid. Example: a levitating ball covered with eyes => Chthulhu's cousin; a hairy giant beast covered with eyes (even if it has the exact same powers) => Grendel's drinking buddy. I prefer a traditional feel in a fantasy game, and not a low-tech sci-fi feel.

Maybe I'll come up with more later.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by austenandrews
So if you ask me what I want in Hero's Monster Manual, here's my answer: I want every type of fantasy creature I need for my FH game. I don't want to be referred to books I haven't bought. (I won't even get into the inconvenience of e-books.)
Just as a point for understanding, DOJ already has a "Monster Manual." It is called the HERO System Bestiary. MM&M was originally supposed to be the Turakian Age Bestiary in the same way that CKC is the Champions Universe "Enemies" book. That does not mean you cannot use CKC or MM&M as generic books, but they were supposed to be tie-in books, not general purpose books. It seems that DOJ has now decided to change their policy in those regards, but the original intent when the product was annouced was for it not to be their generic Monster Manual II.

I am personally disappointed in the change. Since I have not opened the Bestiary more than 4 times since I bought it, I probably will not buy MM&M. I have no interest in generic books, and zero interest in generic fantasy monsters. But I will buy the Turakian Age "enemies" book if it ever comes out.

The Asian Bestiary book was more than likely contracted long before DOJ decided to change the nature of MM&M. That is why you will see that information in two different books. Their intent is not to gouge you of your money. Their intent is to give the fans the books they want, but in many cases that requires more than one book. I do not know about you, but I personally do not want to have to buy another book the size of FH. I would much rather have two 200 page books over one 400 page book. Even if it does cost me an extra $15.00.

[TechnoViking]

Originally posted by Steve Long
To confirm what Monolith said, Michael Surbrook is currently writing an Asian Bestiary as a sort of mostly-FH-but--a-bit-of-NH-too supplement, probably for Hero Plus. So I won't have any Oriental, Indian, etc. monsters in MMM; no need to plow the same ground twice. ;)
Whoops, I forgot about that.

Mike

[Citizen Keen]

Originally posted by Monolith
I am sure I am in the minority here, but I would have preferred the Turakian Age characters myself. Having a tie-in with the campaign world is what makes the book unique to me. It is because of the little bits of information about the campaign world in the write-ups that I would want to buy it. I would much rather read about the Blood Orcs of Grunralk and the Tree Orcs of Purndar then to just see generic orcs with a plains and tree option.

There must be at least a couple of dozen generic “monster manual” books for d20 already in publication. That seems like more than enough source material to base generic creatures on to me. I was hoping for something with more life like CKC rather than something more plain like the Bestiary. To me it is the color commentary which makes a creature interesting, now whether it does 1d6 or 2d6 HKA.

I agree completely. I want new monsters. I like creating generic beasts - I know what an Orc or a Troll does, and making the stats for one gives me experience in making things in HERO. I want new monsters.

I would also like to see a fair amount of Mauraders. Non-monsters. Bandits, raiders, pirates, highway robbers, dark knights, angry villagemen, witch hunters, merchant guards, etc.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Citizen Keen

I would also like to see a fair amount of Mauraders. Non-monsters. Bandits, raiders, pirates, highway robbers, dark knights, angry villagemen, witch hunters, merchant guards, etc.

Another vote here for plenty of Human (or the equivelant) foes, preferably with real personalities to them. They can be "generic," but I want a band of vicious bandits and mecenaries that have set themselves up in a ruined fortress, lead by a maniac giant of a man, a scared monster with a shocking secret. Personality makes a difference.

[Blue]

Wish I had my HSB with me. Here's a few thoughts that I think are not covered in HSB (at least not extensively).

Spirits. I mean this in a shamanistic sense. It sounds like the Grimoire is going to discuss shamanism to some degree. It would be nice to have certain spirits of various objects available for use in conjunction with the Grimoire.
Parasites. How about rules for those small insects that either deliver illness or otherwise impair animals/beings on an on-going basis.
Domestication How hard is it to train lions to jump through hoops, and dogs to simply not piddle on the rug you looted from Galdorn's castle?

[Citizen Keen]

Don't have my HSB with me, and while I think it is not mentioned in it, it may be.

What about half-forms of lycanthropes? Not just a human and a wolf, but a wolf-man.

If this is already there, then I'm an idiot.

[SuperPheemy]

Originally posted by OddHat
Another vote here for plenty of Human (or the equivelant) foes, preferably with real personalities to them. They can be "generic," but I want a band of vicious bandits and mecenaries that have set themselves up in a ruined fortress, lead by a maniac giant of a man, a scared monster with a shocking secret. Personality makes a difference.

That's something the old Enemies books had going for them (before the official recognition of a "Champions Universe"). The characters therein were really intended to be ready-to-run supervillains that ended up being a touchstone for the greater Champs community. Everyone who played Champions had a pretty good idea of who Dr Destroyer or Grond or Ogre were. I think the same thing could and really should be accomplished with part of MMM. Since the HSB has plenty of monsters and creatures to fight, and the MMM will feature a selection with a more definite fantasy bent, we should see a few villains that can be dropped into nearly any fantasy game. Perhaps with some "scaling notes" to accomodate Sword & Sorcery, High Fantasy, or other subgenres.

They don't have to be specific to the Turakian Age, though many of them could fit well into the setting once it is published. just a couple of dozen personalities with some story seeds attached.

[joen00b]

Some of these may have already been listed, it's difficult to read through them with coherence when computer illiterate people are jabbering in your ear (I'm at work).


A full compliment of Undead critters. The more the merrier, from little beasties to OMG IT'S COMING THIS WAY! Also, many years ago, I remember seeing an article about the effectiveness of different kinds of weapons versus different kinds of undead, e.g. Arrows are just not effective towards Skeletons, but big blunt crushing weapons sure are! These shouldn't be too difficult, given the great rules of Hero, to accomplish.

Benevolent/Good creatures. Not every monster is evil and wanting to eat your liver with a bottle of Chianti.

Write-ups of societal behaviors of creatures. Are they nomadic? Do they have indigenous enemies? Do natural enemies have bonuses or penalties when fighting against them?

Tactics/Strategies of Monsters. Are they mindless barbarians with no method to their madness or are they forming a shield wall and making a concerted charge? One of the greatest articles ever written for Dragon Magazine was called: Tucker's Kobolds. Those familiar with this article know exactly how evil a few crafty little 25 point monsters can really be.

Think outside the box, some originality (I know I saw this in there somewhere, just wanted to second the vote here).

That's about it for now, once I get the virus out of my systems network I'll give this much more UNINTERRUPTED thought.

[Alibear]

Originally posted by joen00b
Tactics/Strategies of Monsters. Are they mindless barbarians with no method to their madness or are they forming a shield wall and making a concerted charge? One of the greatest articles ever written for Dragon Magazine was called: Tucker's Kobolds. Those familiar with this article know exactly how evil a few crafty little 25 point monsters can really be.

[/B]

I was thinking about this too.
For example, a regenerating Troll would never fight to the death. It would take some body damage, maybe dish some out and then flee. Next day when our heroes are still injured the Troll returns as good as new..

[Nightfly]

Responding to AA's earlier comment, I must respectfully (yet wholeheartedly) disagree.

I'm a dude whose imaginative pursuits were (mournfully) restricted to appreciating other peoples art (film/music, etc).
I'd played D&D (a lot) when I was a teenager,.. but it was none other than the many outstanding products of FREd that ressurected my (own) imaginative engine - and the characters I make [with the help of the Hero library] are my own little pieces of art.

Honestly, I admit, I don't have kids, am not married, and am lucky enough to work less often than most.
Frankly if I did have a family + FT gig I don't see how I'd have any time for RPGing anyway?!

I've joked w/ my RPG retailers that I (almost literally) spend all my money there.
I'm gonna spend that money there regardless... whether it's on Star Wars, Star Trek, Buffy, or whatever d20.  In gratitude, for reloading my RPG mind, I'd MUCH RATHER spend that $$$ on a FREd porduct.  Not just out of appreciative loyalty, but for the sheer number of ideas I get from them.  Every HERO book I own is packed with bookmarks.

So, to (finally) make my point... IMO I wish DOJ would release 2x the number of books they currently do [which is a big reason why I anxiously await each month's issue of DH]!!!

FTR, I'm not A** kissing, I'm giving praise where praise is due.

P.S. Next year, when I (hopefully) make my 1st pilgrimage to ComicCon (in San Diego) w/out a doubt I'll be hanging at the FREd booth more than anywhere else!

[Steve Long]

P.S. Next year, when I (hopefully) make my 1st pilgrimage to ComicCon (in San Diego) w/out a doubt I'll be hanging at the FREd booth more than anywhere else!

We don't ever have booth at San Diego ComicCon; it's not worth it to us and comes at the wrong time of the year.

We do, however, have booths at Origins, GenCon, and several other major cons. You're welcome to stop by, say hi, and hang out there. ;)

[Nightfly]

Sorry for the false assumption, if I ever make it to Origins or GenCon I'll defintely drop by, and drop some cash! :)

If it'd help it be more worth-it to ya, I'd be happy to (volunteer) help man a (ComicCon) booth :)  I'm conveniently located in Central Cal, so it's equally close to head North [SF] or South [LA].

If I were a better writer, or farther along in my HERO skillz, I'd definitely be contributing more on the digital/online front.  I hope sooner than later I will be ready to contribute more.

By the way, thanks for so positively impacting my days!

[tiger]

I'd like to see some write-ups of the following:

1)a few "D&D" type critters. Not to many but some of the monsters people have come to expect in a fantasy setting

2)Either a rewrite of the Dragon or a list of option to add to the Dragon in HSB for making multiple types of dragons.

3)Demons, Undead & Devils

4)Unusual critters. Maneating trees or fungus, Vorpal bunnies :) . Just thing noone really expects to run into.

[Steve Long]

Thanx for the offer, Nightfly, but we've got a company that reps our products at ComicCon, and I believe does well with 'em. They can make it worthwhile to do so by repping a bunch of companies, whereas all those companies attending individually wouldn't do so well.

OTOH, if you can't make it "down" to GenCon SoCal in December (where it now appears I'll be listed as Guest Of Honor, and therefore will attend), you should try to make it up to San Ramon for DunDraCon in February. It's a great little con with a lot of Hero support and games.

[Nightshade]

I would like the following:

Role templates. These would be templates for different roles that are common with people, races, cultures, etc. Things like a chieftain, shaman, guard. This way one could have an infernal orc guard, a typical city guard, or a dragon guard without having umpteen writeups.

Lots of undead. For all of the reasons already stated.

Good creatures. It is interesting to have to find and convince a guardian to give you the item he protects in lieu of attacking them.

Interesting ways of making creatures unique. It isn't just a dragon. It's Smaug. It's Bahamut. It's Tiamat. It isn't just a lich, it's King Leoric. How to make the more unique (or powerful) creatures more unique.

Fantasy Standards. I know how to make an Orc, or an Ogre, or whatever. But that doesn't mean that everyone wants to. One of the complaints most commonly voiced is how complicated everything is (I never had this hang up, but it is always brought up). Well, making some write-ups of common fantasy creatures is one way to lower that complexity a little. In my mind, it makes the game more accessible to new players, which is a good thing.

Nightshade

[Nimbus]

Has anyone mentioned....Beholders/Beholder-kin? That would be nice to see, hehe.

[Herolover]

I am going to chime in again, because this is, I feel, going to be an important HERO book. This book should/needs/has to be very useful for the GM and the non-HERO gm or people are not going to want to switch from D&D to Fantasy HERO. Many of the creatures already are in the HSB so what I want to see is…..

1> Please, Please include generic stats for the common people that PC’s will run into. You know City Guards, Common Soldiers, Bandits, the common merchant, common knight, common noble, common etc. I would then like options to raise them to veterans and options to lower them to rookies.

2> I would like to see 4-5 original monsters and another 4-5 original NPC villains. This could satiate those that want original Fantasy HERO creations and give Fantasy HERO players a common set of, “Oh yeah, we ran into them,” kind of thing.

3> Perhaps a section on how to use other RPG fantasy creatures in your own HERO game? Nothing specific, just a mention with some quick notes and suggestions.

4> Perhaps a small chapter on how to create monsters suitable for your individual campaign using the HERO system.

[Toadmaster]

Well I went through my Beastiary and I have come to the conclusion you have your work cut out if you're not going to duplicate stuff, there is already quite a selection. Some things I would like to see more of:

Toads, lots of toads, big toads, little toads, poison toads, toads with hats, toads in boats etc. I'd also like to see at least one toad based sentiant race (it will make my job of world conquest easier, I thank you in advance for your support). :D

Mythological creatures not included in the HSB, if asian creatures are set for another book then I'd still like to see some from other cultures mythology, windigo and big foot, yeti etc. Clearly my knowledge of these is limited but I'd like to see some. Also another angle on these is spin offs based around the creatures for example Grendel from Beowulf and the relationship with the creatures from the movie The 13th Warrior.

Guardians:
critters that protect an area, treasures etc, both magically summoned / created and just plain fantastic critters that like the job.

Riding animals and beasts of burden:
include at least a few each for aerial, aquatic and land use. Common mythological and real creatures are pretty well covered in HSB so either new stuff you create or less well known mythological creatures would be nice (I'd like to see a large lizard like beast of burden ala the Starwars Dewback, never can have to many lizards, somebody has to help me in the arid climates).

Oozes, slimes and other nastiness could use some more fleshing out.

Ambush carnivores would be nice (critters that use their coloring and skin to lure food close to them, or magic (illusions etc) to bring them in close.

I have to second the inclusion of trademark D&D beasties Bullette, Beholder, Purple worm, Umberhulk, Dopleganger, Mind Flayer etc. As much as some would like to distance themselves from D&D many will want and expect to see these creatures or at least fascimiles of them, particularly the ones that have tricky powers to recreate in HERO. Also using one as an example would probably be helpful (take the creature you are converting and explain how and why things were done). I think most of us grew up on D&D and LotR which shaped our views of Fantasy, other stuff is nice but its easier to ignore stuff you don't want to use than it is to add in things not included.

Dragons were covered pretty well already but I'm sure you can find more to say about them.

Same goes for Undead.

Sentiant races elves, dwarves, orcs, ogres etc, the more the merrier.

A few "funny" creatures like the Dun Geon worm, killer rabbit etc would be nice, not too many but a few could be fun for a change of pace.

Loads of NPC's guards, soldiers, apprentice wizards, powerful lords, evil wizards etc. A full range from peon to world class conqueror. After rereading HSB I think MMM should probably devote about 1/2 to NPC's.

Famous NPC's, I realize some like Conan may have copyright issues but it would be nice to see what you can include, legendary NPC's like selected knights of the round table, Beowulf etc should be possible. Also perhaps take one and detail its creation like I mentioned under D&D creatures.

A few "funny" NPC's, like I mentioned above for funny monsters, just a few to lighten up a game now and then, perhaps Monty Haul, a powerful wizard who spends his later years giving away his treasures to those mighty enough to defeat his well stocked mazes.

Also I don't buy into the generic has to be boring, name some of the NPC's, no reason they can't be tweaked to fit various worlds but some personality and background is certainly possible without tying it to a specific product line, I'd prefer to see Sloth Amoon the blue wizard of huckleberry, than evil wizard #1.

I'd also like to put my support behind a full book for an oriental bestiary, I'll buy an ebook but I'd prefer to spend a little bit more and get the real thing. Judging from his website and Ninja Hero Mr Surbrook would make this a worthwhile product which would also further support NH.

[Shadowpup]

A few creatures I would like to see....

More plants. Killer Grasses, Thorn Shooting Bushes, Strangler Trees (ala Super Squirel), Whomping Willow (ala Harry Potter)

I'd like to see Super Squirel's Bunnies published. They were an original and fun encounter.

Dwarven Undead that maintain their forever living state by finding new bodies. Only the head remains the same.

Badger folk that treat everybody like food. Very little industry - they steal almost all of their equipment. They live in burrows, have tunneling and have a limited scent based attack power.

Elven Undead that sap years of life, making themslves younger but age their Elven victim.

Giant maggot like creatures that swallow you whole. It is possible to survive the experience but the maggot consumes all of your clothes and equipment.

A living island, just for kicks.

Sentient items which aid or harm their user/wearer - weapons, clothing, jewelry...

Insects that inject eggs into their target which quickly grow and burst forth from the victim causing grievous wounds.

Aquatic folk...

Ooh...speaking of aquatics:
A large car sized fish that keeps its young in its mouth. It opens up and the young swim out to attack prey bringing back scraps to feed themselves and the parent.

That's it for now.

[Tim]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
A few creatures I would like to see....


Shadowpup, some of these were down right disturbing. Remind me never to play in a horror game you run if I want to sleep afterward.
:)

[Korvar]

Some beasties suitable for Fantasy campaigns where Psionics/Mentalism is a big part of the game. Notes on how to take other monsters and convert them into same.

Opponents that aren't necessarily just combat monsters. The beaurocrat who takes a dislike to you. The weasel spreading malicious gossip. The competing Adventurer group. Stuff like that. Too often books like this just end up lists of "things to fight".

Notes on how to create certain "generic" or at least common monster powers.

Discussions on how monsters fit into campaigns.

Discussions on how monsters often represent various themes and concepts, above and beyond just being a beastie to kill. Dragons often represent "Greed", for example.

Underground ecology.

Enough ideas on dinosaurs to do Dinotopia :)

Elemental creatures. What might you find if you travel to the Elemental Plane of Earth? Fire? Water? Air? Ice?

Some opponents specifically designed for the Mass Combat Rules, or at least with Mass Combat stats. So maybe under the "orc" (or "more info on orcs", if orcs are already in the HSB) section, some Mass Combat unit stats for the Orc Horde.

Pernese Firelizards / Pseudodragons. Who doesn't want a small pet dragon? :)

Actually, Fantasy Pets. Useful also as Wizards Familiars.

That went on longer than I expected... Sorry if I repeated anyone :)

[Thirdbase]

Low point total monsters and extra planar critters.

Low point total versions of undead. (Necromancers are tough to build)

Summonable creatures.

Generic people packages.

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Giant maggot like creatures that swallow you whole. It is possible to survive the experience but the maggot consumes

The poor, maligned maggot. Maggots only eat dead flesh. Physicians are using them as a treatment of last resort for wounds that get infected with drug-resistant bacteria. If the maggots are cultured, they are some of the best bandage packing in the world.

Giant maggots would be make excellent riding beasts for the clerics of light, they would be ghouls' and vampires' worst nightmares.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Tempuswolf
The poor, maligned maggot. Maggots only eat dead flesh. Physicians are using them as a treatment of last resort for wounds that get infected with drug-resistant bacteria. If the maggots are cultured, they are some of the best bandage packing in the world. He did say maggot-like creatures -- possibly inspired by the movie Tremors. Giant maggots would be make excellent riding beasts for the clerics of light, they would be ghouls' and vampires' worst nightmares. Then just wait until your giant maggot steed matures into an insect....:eek:

[AnotherSkip]

oh yeah, fear those who ride giant Fly's...

*whips up an AOE TK Spell, Power name Flyswatter and a RKA NND Does bodyPower Named DDT Poison spell*

I aint fraid o nuthin!!!!!!!!

[Shadowpup]

Originally posted by Tempuswolf
The poor, maligned maggot. Maggots only eat dead flesh. Physicians are using them as a treatment of last resort for wounds that get infected with drug-resistant bacteria. If the maggots are cultured, they are some of the best bandage packing in the world.


Yeah I knew that, I saw the special on Discovery Channel (or maybe it was TLC). That was REALLY cool. Anyway, they don't digest characters, just their stuff. If anything the character would die of suffocation.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Yeah I knew that, I saw the special on Discovery Channel (or maybe it was TLC). That was REALLY cool.
I read an article on that in the 70s. Apparently it's been used for a long time, just comparitivly recently in western medicine.

[Trencher]

Why not give a writeup to the monster that already been pictured in the hero system books?
Let me give you a more detailed example:
From Fred:
 On page 4 there is this brick that are fighting this guy in cape; the brick is cool so why not make a race in fantasy hero who has been around for a long time. Or somebody messed around with some ancient DNA samples or something.
 The monster on page 68.
 I would defiantly like to see a good writeup of the golem on page70.
 The shadow demon on page 135
 Page 298 also has a great drawing which I would like to see some stats for.
 The creature on page 355 is probably meant for more of a science fiction campaign but I sure would not mind using them in a fantasy campaign.

From Fantasy hero:
 The critters on page 13 looks good are they a new original race or are they ork’s or something?
 I would also like to know more about the being on page 16.
 I don’t mind a Lovercrafitian creature or two in a new monster book like on page 20. Yes they are not strictly fantasy but remember that even Tolkien had one tentacle creature in his books.
 The insect warrior on page 189
 On page 222 there are two creatures which look similar to the creature on page 247 are they of the same race? I would really like to see a big write up on these guys. After all, flying demonsnakes with firebreath will liven up any campaign.
 The lightman(?) far to the right on page 235 looks interesting, could be some kind of otherworldly race of do-gooders, or not…
 What are we looking at on page 355? A light-knight an outworlder, a god or what?
 On page 408 there are some kind of slime creature, works for me…

The entire write up of the monster should have new art offcourse.
A new monster book should be a new monster book keep the villains for the campaign source book or give them their own. I am telling you, if I pick up the new monster book and see a write up of a bunch of bandits that live down in a cave I am going to feel cheated. I think that a monster book will also sell more than a villain book.
Speaking of things that sell: Good looking artwork! This is what you should do: you should give your artist staff lots of $$ and free reign to come up with some weird, wonderful and terrifying monsters. Then you should do the writeup and background for them. I am sure you will get a lot of good looking and original monsters this way!
Monster I personally would like to see: I like my monster grotesque and horrible, ofcourse stream lined super predators are also cool. Demons and devils are always popular. I would not mind seeing the other side of the coin in form of angel beings or something similar either. I have been playing a game called Diablo 2 lately and I think there are some monster there that are generic enough that you could make your own versions of. Like forinstance: those small desert leapers which jumps over you while they are attacking, they are very fun to watch. There is always one ugly, disfigured, creeper kind of creature who spawns others. There are also some huge suckers called gargantuan beasts which I like (to hack…). I second the suggestion of looking towards computer and video games for inspiration. I would also like to see a faceless race, some thorny creature which makes huge, fast bleeding wound and then retreats waiting for its prey to bleed to death, some sea monsters, more dragons, a race which could supplement ork’s as the token evil race. A huge lumbering race which are not evil. Beast/goatmen. Death knights and more undead. But most of all I would like to see you come up with your own unique monsters, creatures which makes it worthwhile to buy hero system so they can understand the monsterbook you are making now.
[I]

[Shadowpup]

"Faceless Race"
That reminds me...
A people that are hairless and have faces which are pretty featureless (mine were blue skinned). They have some sort of spacial awareness and communicate via telepathy. Not incredibly strong, they rely mostly on agility and skill to win fights. Vivisectionist attitudes towards other people.

I forgot to mention that I'd like to see a race thats primary missile weapon is the atlatl. Why? because they're cool yet rarely seen.

Large sized flightless birds that can be used as mounts/draft animals.

Large drifting jellyfish like creatures that float in the air. Lethality isn't important for these, it's just a nice image I had in my head.

A creature that can detect magic and consumes magic items/spells for food. As such it is virtually immune to magic. Should be physically imposing as well otherwise it would be too easy for fighters to take out.

Regarding plants. Forget about my shooting thorns idea. The plant shoots its seeds instead. If the seed is not removed, it sprouts within the host.

A grass that emits a fragrance that causes the victim to relax, sleep and not wake up - fertilizer!

[Citizen Keen]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Large sized flightless birds that can be used as mounts/draft animals.


Word.

[Tim]

Originally posted by Citizen Keen
Word.

Chocabo

[Citizen Keen]

Chocabo to your mother. ;)

[megaplayboy]

an evil demigod or lesser deity(generic), with "options" covering various spheres of influence.

packages for dragons to represent different types and personalities of dragons.

a race of extremely evil fair skinned folk, just for a change of pace.

a unique legendary creature to pose a challenge to a large group of high fantasy PCs.

[Brett]

Maybe a few pages for Fantasy Normals and normal animals.

Lots of new templates to change those normal people and normal animals into something less than normal.

I'm interested in the more humanoid monsters since HSB has so many big things that will tear a whole party apart. Lots of generic humanoids with lots of options to modify them.

How about Generic wizards of different types and power levels.

More templates to change these generic creatures into something more interesting. Generic Sorcerer becomes Demon-Possessed, Theives Guild Leader Sorcerer.

Several original interesting races would be interesting.

I also would like guidelines for determining the combat effectiveness of the creatures and NPCs.

[Talon]

A cross-index to HSB, so you can look up a monster in one place without having to worry what book its in.

Actually, this might make a good web supplement...could be updated as new books with monsters come out. Ideally it could be indexed in a couple different orders (alphabetical, point total, etc.).

[danbuter]

More Undead.
More Faerie races.
Just about everything Shadowpup suggested :D .
Small fast things that rip you apart before you can react.
Examples of unexperienced, regular, veteran, and commander knights, mercs, guards, etc.


As a side note, Beholders and Gnolls are copyright WotC, and are not in the D20 guide. They might not like you using them.

[Vondy]

Voluptuary red-headed barbarian-babes in chain-mail swimwear.

[Kintara]

My request is more of a design philosophy, than a specific example. I want creatures that are daring from the perspective of the rules. I want to see creatures that would require someone to come up with a new power construct or rules exposition to encompass it. The reason for this is that when I buy a book like this, it serves two purposes. The first purpose is to give me something that I can use immediately and easily in my game. That's all well and good for animals and other highly common creatures that people would often include with practically no changes. Easily insertable creatures are creatures that people have a common vision of, either a mythology or physical specimens. The further one goes from creatures that people would share a common vision for, the more I want those creatures to be used as examples for me to use as a tool, instead of a whole example.

So I would rather the focus be on defining abilities that you imagine would be more difficult for an overworked GM to create on his own in a balanced and thorough way. I don't want creatures that are just clever from the standpoint of story. I would rather have a creature that reads bland in the description, but gives me a new power advantage example I had never been able to create to my satisfaction.

Either that, or think up of more creatures that you imagine people would share a common vision for, like various animals and mythological creatures.

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by D-Man
Voluptuary red-headed barbarian-babes in chain-mail swimwear.

Bouncing rhythmically.:D

[Shadowpup]

Originally posted by D-Man
Voluptuary red-headed barbarian-babes in chain-mail swimwear.

Unknown to the people of the kingdom, the armor worn by the voluptuous mercenary band was not in fact chain-mail. Each piece is a community of armored beetles living in symbiosis with the warrior. Only the females of the race have the beetles as the males lack the proper scent glands to attract them.

Then you throw in some freckles and slightly pointed ears....

[Citizen Keen]

A babe covered in bugs... Yeah. I get to roleplay once every other week, and I'm going to fantasize about women covered in beatles. Right.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Citizen Keen
A babe covered in bugs... Yeah. I get to roleplay once every other week, and I'm going to fantasize about women covered in beatles. Right.

Armor: OIF John...Paul...Ringo...George

Helping Steve a lot, I suspect.

I agree with a prior poster - try and set up some of the "classic fantasy" items that seem tough to duplicate in the Hero system. Need some items? Well, troll the boards for a while and you'll see plenty! Let's start with Trog Stench, and Berserker Rage (haven't read FH yet - sorry if one or both is already in there)

A thought for discussion: Should Steve publish the full details of the characters' spells (assuming some are mages) or just a name and a Grimoire reference to save space? The latter seems preferable if you buy both to get more info in MM&M, but means the characters aren't complete in one spot, and are less useful if you didn't buy the Grimopire.

[Steve Long]

Berserker Rage is in FH, but nothing like trog stench. I don't know whether I'll have any stinky monsters or not, but we'll see. Or maybe create a "Stench" template. ;)

I can answer the latter question: I'm not going to reprint spells, just refer to the FHG if necessary. I have little enough page space to work with without re-printing existing material that was printed specifically so I and others could refer to it as needed. ;) Similarly, when a monster is published for D&D and it has spells, they don't reprint the spells -- they list them by name and expect you to look in the Player's Handbook for 'em. People who don't have the FHG should have an easy enough time doping out what a spell does based on its name, or they can substitute a spell of their own.

But then again, most monsters don't have specific spells. I'm more likely to say "X points' worth of Magic skills, spells, and abilities" so the GM can tailor the beastie to suit. ;)

[Talon]

Originally posted by Steve Long
But then again, most monsters don't have specific spells. I'm more likely to say "X points' worth of Magic skills, spells, and abilities" so the GM can tailor the beastie to suit. ;)

I guess monsters are a special case, but in general I'd far prefer to see specific spells listed -- it makes the monster (or NPC, or whatever) easier to run off the cuff. "X points' worth of stuff" basically says "extra work for the GM".

[JakSpade]

You know, I haven't read much of this thread (other than the first page, man it's long), but here's some things I'd like to see...

* Mastermind and minion creatures you can expect to encounter on a local or kingdom setting. What I mean by this is: Say an Ogre Mage set up camp in the area, what kind of forces could he be expected to have, and what other monsters could he control to cause havoc in the local shire, barony, or kingdom.

* Monster teamwork notes - tribe, pack and family issues, tactics or just notes.

* Don't forget to give us some ideas about what motivates these minions and villains... if the Ogre Mage loves gems, then he should be bothering the player characters by getting his hands on as many of the local gems as possible.

That's all for now... :)
Jak

[Nightshade]

I actually would rather have "X points of stuff" than specifics for some creatures. It allows me to more easily customize the creatures but keep them generally in the same power level.

Of course, if it is a unique creature (e.g. Tiamat), then I would prefer the specific spells and powers. It is already unique, I should not have to customize it too much from the actual write-up.

The difficult part, of course, is that not every world will have the same (or even similar) magic systems. It will make it difficult for anyone if MMM uses a magic system that is completely different than what the world uses for magic. That is, IMO, more annoying than giving points to put into spells, etc.

Nightshade

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by Nightshade
I actually would rather have "X points of stuff" than specifics for some creatures. It allows me to more easily customize the creatures but keep them generally in the same power level.

Of course, if it is a unique creature (e.g. Tiamat), then I would prefer the specific spells and powers. It is already unique, I should not have to customize it too much from the actual write-up.

The difficult part, of course, is that not every world will have the same (or even similar) magic systems. It will make it difficult for anyone if MMM uses a magic system that is completely different than what the world uses for magic. That is, IMO, more annoying than giving points to put into spells, etc.

Nightshade

Ah, but if it is already created specific spells, one has both versions, i.e., you have the pre-made spell setup if that's what you want, but you also can readily see a "X" points allocated to those premade spells and do something else with that amount.

[Nightshade]

I see your point.

How about this one, though. Let's say we are talking about something that is generally thought of as a spellcaster, say a lich.

Now, the book could have a lich write-up with spells, say necromancy spells. Say I want a lich with darkness based magic (from my world). Then I just substitute, right? That works pretty well. I agree.

Let's then look at dragons. Dragons could literally have any type of magic. They really don't have a type of magic that would necessarily be associated with them, so what do you put there? The same really could be said for demons/devils, and many other caster-style creatures. I know that I could substitute, but really, I'll very likely be looking for them in the spellbook anyway.

In addition, if we want to look at page count, I would rather have more creatures with "X points of magic" than fewer with spell write-ups that can be found elsewhere.

Nightshade

[Talon]

For me, the main goal is ease of use: ideally, I should be able to just write "dragon" in my prep, then open MMM and run from there with no more work required. I agree that including full spell writeups would be a waste of space, but listing 5 FHG spells is a lot more usable than saying "30 points of spells".

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
For me, the main goal is ease of use: ideally, I should be able to just write "dragon" in my prep, then open MMM and run from there with no more work required. I agree that including full spell writeups would be a waste of space, but listing 5 FHG spells is a lot more usable than saying "30 points of spells".

Exactly. Give me a cookie-cutter creature to run with little thought, but no one says I can't mod it.

[Alcamtar]

(I don't have HSB handy so sorry if I duplicate anything)

Lots of "generic template humans" -- the most useful Hero monster writeup I ever had was the Ruffian/Bandit/Enforcer/Leader from old 1st edition FH, even after I upgraded to 4th edition.

Also, "generic template demi-humans". Dwarven blacksmiths, elven scouts, halfling innkeepers.

Speaking of which, some normal (non adventuring) folk: innkeepers, sly-tongued merchants, crusty sea-dogs, aloof princesses.

Knights! Why does every bestiary include everything EXCEPT a classic knight-in-shining armor, complete with steed and lance? He'll also need a squire. Make him generic of course.

A couple of NPC adventuring parties, like in the old Rogues Gallery from TSR. Also a couple of merchant caravans, complete with guards. Also a detachment of city guards. These are commonly encountered, but time consuming to set up because of all the characters required. I want something I can open the page to and just use without needing any customization work.

A few high level wizards, kings, patriarchs, etc -- not bad guys, but not allies either. Powerful or influential people that can spawn adventures and can easily be dropped into a campaign. These work best if they follow some common generic archetype, like Gandalf.

An evil mastermind or three. The generic sort -- a wizard, a dark priest, an ambitious warlord. These don't need to be Turakian. Make them generic, the sort that could pop up in any city or kingdom. Stuff like this makes it easy to get a campaign going NOW, without spending three months worldbuilding and creating villains, and if they're generic they can be reused. Also they make great lieutenants for...

at least one COSMICALLY POWERFUL dark lord. Like Iuz in the old greyhawk setting, or Sauron. The sort of guy that can serve as the focus for an entire campaign. Or, he can be a drop-in complication for an existing campaign, providing a diversion or counterpoint or rival or ally to a GM-created nemesis. If nothing else he makes a great example for creating your own ultra-villain. Again this makes it easy to get a campaign running quickly, and also makes it easier for those GMs who prefer not to create everything themselves.

Classic fantasy monsters... that is, clones of things like owl bears, carrion crawlers, purple worms, mind flayers, rust monsters. File off the serial numbers and throw in an odd twist or two to surprise the grognards.

Lots of undead, in every variety. Include some unusual/giant ones. I really like the Nightshades from D&D.

Plants. Man-eating trees, shrubs, seaweed, moss, grass, slime, fungus. Fungus-people. Sentient trees.

Familiars. Animal companions.

Monsters and critters that have an interesting 'yield' -- that is, body parts that may be useful to the players. For example, in old D&D, fire beetle glands could be used as light sources. Dragon's blood may have magical properties, etc.

Also I like the idea of some sort of encounter balancing system, or at least a discussion of it.

Mike

[TheTemplar]

Wow..lots of great stuff already mentioned..

How about some Deus Ex Machina Man/Construct Hybrids? Something created by an ancient and now extinct race that tampered with magical and creative forces not meant to be wielded by mortals? You know..THAT whole thing. ;-)
Maybe extend it to some Hybrid Construct/Monsters...like "Augmented Orcs" or the like.

Maybe a few pre-built and ready to use villains like "Nameless Evil Wizard 003" or "Red-Shirted Acolyte of Miscellaneous God of Something Bad." Just so that incase we need something in a pinch it's there and ready, all we have to provide would be a name. That way, even if there's no "Named" villains (a la CKC) the book would still carry a similar functionality to that invaluable resource.

Um..other than that...I think the HSB does a really good job of covering the basics for "On the Fly" stuff. Oh, I do like the Random Summoned Creature table idea that was mentioned earlier on (by Storn, I think?)

Maybe some expanded battle tactics for creatures already written up in HSB? Like how to set up a good Orc Ambush, or how a group of highly trained Lizardfolk Ninjas would try to take down a group of PC's? Still fairly generic, but very useful if your running short on prep time or the group decides not to follow your bread crumbs and neon arrows and decide to go the other way down the cave where you hadn't really planned anything yet.

Anyway..that's it. My brain is tapped out. Thanks for asking, Steve.

-T