Religious reason to be a superhero?

[Trebuchet]

I run a character who is a devout Russian Orthodox; and her faith is an important part of her life. I'd like to have a quote or two from the Bible that she would likely quote if someone were to ask "Why are you a superheroine? Why risk your life to save people you don't even know?"

Any suggestions? Being an agnostic; I'm no bible scholar. So I put this to those better educated than I.

[OddHat]

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible

Just type words like "smite," "protect," "wicked," "defend," etc. into the search engine.

[Hermit]

Oddhat has a good site. I found these just typing in "Doing Good" there were others...

Galatians 6
9And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.


1 Peter 3:17
For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

and, if, for some reason, said character should end up dying, what better speech to give to her friends in farewell than this?


2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith

[Watchman-BN]

I think most Calvinist christians (and Russian Orthodox would share the same beliefs even though they wouldn't have been influenced by Calvin) believe in an omniscient, omnipresent God. As more than one critic has pointed out (not trying to start a debate, but just give you food for thought), if God knows what I'm going to do, then why do anything? In fact, everything, from Hitler on down the line was, in a sense, God's will.

Recently, the "Open View of the Future" has become more popular and probably reflects the way most Christians live out their lives, seeing how the hardcore Calvinist position seems fatalistic. The Open View asserts that God is indeed omniscient, but that the future is partly settled and partly open. Because God values love, and love must be freely chosen (not programmed), humans are truly free. That means God knows pretty darn well what will happen, but not always, because humans are, indeed, free willed creatures.

This means that God is, in a sense, fighting along side his followers to make the world more how God wants it to be. So Hitler (or Dr. Destroyer wiping out Millenium CIty), certainly wasn't "God's mysterious will", and insofar as God could act to persuade free will beings to fight Destroyer, et. al., it would make good theological sense.

Those who adhere to the Open View, assert that it requires a God who is very powerful and wise to ever get His way, seeing how most humans tend to be selfish, powerhungry mopes. The "calvinist" God doesn't have to work to get His way: we're all just puppets anyway created and predestined to do exactly what we do, with no chance of ever doing anything else.

By the way, you could draw on Biblical stories about Samson, Paul, and Moses to see that "super powers" are often granted by God for a specific purpose.

The most interesting role play element, to me, would be to make sure the character is careful to give all glory for his/her powers to God. And, the powers could go away at any moment is God becomes displeased....

[assault]

Originally posted by Watchman-BN
As more than one critic has pointed out (not trying to start a debate, but just give you food for thought), if God knows what I'm going to do, then why do anything? In fact, everything, from Hitler on down the line was, in a sense, God's will.

My understanding of all this is that doctrines like predestination are good things for groups that consider themselves to be the chosen people (members of the true church, etc). It gives you strength to have destiny on your side.

There is a thick strand of Calvinism in the secular ideology of the US, by the way. It has both positive and negative aspects. The negative one is the tendency to be indifferent or hostile to the poor, who after all aren't the chosen ones, are lazy, and so on...

Alan

[Hermit]

Hmmm, this thread does make me wonder how one of my lucky submissions for "Name the Hero" that will be appearing in September's DH will be recieved :)


I think, in the case of a Christian super hero, it is best to study the particular denomination. If the nonviolent teachings of the New Testament are stressed, for example, that could lead to quite the quandry for said hero.

"You're not asking for forgiveness, you're asking for permission- and I won't give it." -Priest in Daredevil

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Hermit

I think, in the case of a Christian super hero, it is best to study the particular denomination. If the nonviolent teachings of the New Testament are stressed, for example, that could lead to quite the quandry for said hero.

Too true. On the other hand, check out David Gemmells "Shannow" books; a scripture quoting gunman in the post apocalypse old west. :) Very cool character, inspired strongly by Clint Eastwood's Preacher character from Pale Rider.

Gemmell's fantasy novels also do an interesting job of handling the conflict between Christian non-violence and the need to oppose evil.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
"Why are you a superheroine? Why risk your life to save people you don't even know?"

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

That's the King James, the exact wording may be different in an Orthodox, but I think that answers the question.

[Trebuchet]

Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. :) I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.

I found these in the Old Testament:
Job 21:30
That to a day of calamity is the wicked spared. To a day of wrath they are brought

Psalm 10:15
Break the arm of the wicked and the evil, Seek out his wickedness, find none;

Proverbs 21:15
To do justice [is] joy to the righteous, But ruin to workers of iniquity.

And I really like this one:

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus said Jehovah: Do ye judgment and righteousness, And deliver the plundered from the hand of the oppressor, And sojourner, orphan, and widow, ye do not oppress nor wrong, And innocent blood ye do not shed in this place.

If that's not a call to smite evildoers, I don't know what is. :D

[Osprey]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. :) I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.

I reccomend a book called "Facing East" about a woman's conversion to Orthodoxy. It might introduce you to it better.

I don't know their exact Version or if it's in a preferred language, but i'm pretty sure it contains the same number of books as the Catholic Bible (Which other denominations would consider "extra").

GREAT THREAD!!

I'll have to remember these verses for my one Catholic character.

["V"]

Some other verses your heroine may like to quote at appropriate points, not so much about smiting the evil doers, but about their own role:

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

and possibly (from the "introduction" to the Book of Judges in which appear Samson, Ehud (God's left handed assassin) and lots of other interesting types)

Judges 2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

[Trebuchet]

These are some great suggestions. Thanks.

I don't want to make her sound like some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament. She is just a earnestly devout young woman who takes her faith seriously by attending church and trying to lead a good and moral life. I know plenty of ordinary people who live the same way.

It's an interesting role-playing challenge for an irreligious old heathen like me. :p

[Osprey]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament.

Sounds like a Neat Villian Idea! :D


It's an interesting role-playing challenge for an irreligious old heathen like me. :p

Just be careful, I've heard of somthing called "Paschal's Wager." It's a bet Mr Paschal made something like this:
'If you live as though I practice a religion as though you believe in it (even though you don't) for a year, before the time is up - You WILL believe"

So watch out ;)

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
I don't want to make her sound like some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament.


Why not? It's an interesting and time honored character design. :)

"The wages of sin are death, lawbreaker!" (fires 4d6 RKA)


Originally posted by Trebuchet
She is just a earnestly devout young woman who takes her faith seriously by attending church and trying to lead a good and moral life. I know plenty of ordinary people who live the same way.

Heck, where's the fun in that? ;)

[lemming]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. :) I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.
For personal reasons I need to do some research as well into the Orthodox churches as well. If you find any decent links post them, I'll do the same.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Osprey
Just be careful, I've heard of somthing called "Paschal's Wager." It's a bet Mr Paschal made something like this:
'If you live as though I practice a religion as though you believe in it (even though you don't) for a year, before the time is up - You WILL believe"

So watch out ;) Heh. I try to live that way anyway. Many of the people I admire most are devout Christians, which may explain why I'm more sympathetic than most agnostics or atheists to religious faith in general. It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality. :)

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by lemming
For personal reasons I need to do some research as well into the Orthodox churches as well. If you find any decent links post them, I'll do the same. Good idea. Here's a couple that look good:

http://ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/

http://www.fatheralexander.org/page6.htm

The second one is especially good; it's apparently run by a Russian Orthodox bishop although he covers Eastern Orthodoxy as a whole. I even found a great quote by St. Paul on doing good which would support her superheroism:

Let us not be weary in well-doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men
Galatians 6:9-10

[assault]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality. :)

On the other hand, there are moralities other than the Christian(/Islamic/Jewish/whatever) one.

This tends to be obscured in Western societies, where there is this tendency to assume that these values are universal.

They aren't.

Alan

[lemming]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality. :)
Hmm. Most that I know are "Treat others as you would want to be treated."

[Brandi]

One tack for your religious character... does she feel that her powers are a God-given blessing, or does she fear that she is being tempted to pride and sin by them?

I mean, 'With great power comes great responsibility' isn't a bad way to think of what it means to have superpowers even if it's not Biblical.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Brandi
One tack for your religious character... does she feel that her powers are a God-given blessing, or does she fear that she is being tempted to pride and sin by them?

I mean, 'With great power comes great responsibility' isn't a bad way to think of what it means to have superpowers even if it's not Biblical. Hmmm, good question. I suspect the answer would be a bit of both. She is proud, and it's enough of a character flaw even her enemies have used it against her. On the other hand, she's a very straight arrow on the morality/sin front. No sex until marriage, yadda, yadda. However, her pride predated her acquisition of superpowers so I don't think she'd be worried about that per se. (She was an Olympic medalist in gymnastics before she got her powers.)

One of the reasons Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins is it's so insidious. It's often mistaken for confidence when it's actually arrogance.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by lemming
Hmm. Most that I know are "Treat others as you would want to be treated." Note that that philosophy in no way prevents a life of total debauchery and hedonism as long as you're OK with your friends and aquaintances enjoying themselves too.

I'd like to think there's a bit more to life than just sex and drugs. :D

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by assault
On the other hand, there are moralities other than the Christian(/Islamic/Jewish/whatever) one.

This tends to be obscured in Western societies, where there is this tendency to assume that these values are universal.

They aren't.Since I'm a product of western civilization, I see no real reason to pretend to honor other systems of morality. I will evaluate other people's moral behavior by my standards, not by theirs. They may be valid for holders of those other systems. I won't even pretend to be objective about them.

A morals system where you can pick and choose which rules you adher to isn't a morals system at all; it's just window dressing for doing whatever you want.

[Kevin Scrivner]

A faith-based hero would tend to regard crime-fighting as a calling rather than just a mere job. It's something she was born to do, is compelled to do. We're not talking a Batman or Punisher style obsession, rather a deep-seated knowing, a confidence that this is what the character is supposed to be doing.

Also, based on Romans 13, a faith-based hero would tend to be an Adam West "support your local police" type rather than a Golden or Iron Age style vigilante. If your character is Russian Orthodox, this would be particularly so since Russia's leaders (even the atheistic ones) have been careful to exploit this passage for their own advantage. It says in part, "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. [The person in authority] is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment upon the wrongdoer." Since Paul was writing under the rule of the ruthless Roman Empire, many modern governments (even corrupt ones) look pretty good by comparison. The hero wouldn't be blind to her nation's or city government's faults but would feel compelled to obey out of conscience.

[assault]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Since I'm a product of western civilization, I see no real reason to pretend to honor other systems of morality. I will evaluate other people's moral behavior by my standards, not by theirs. They may be valid for holders of those other systems. I won't even pretend to be objective about them.

The point is that that cuts both ways.

Incidentally, there are other "western" moralities than the "Christian" one too.

Just for a laugh: it's entirely possible to not consider human life to possess intrinsic value without being a serial killer or a sociopath. :)

Alan

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
I'd like to think there's a bit more to life than just sex and drugs. :D

Of course there's more!
There's also Rock n' Roll ;)

[Nightfly]

How 'bout this...

In Christ's loving name, I kill for Oil !!!!

["V"]

On a side note, the only version of Pascal's wager I've come across is as follows (published in his Pensees of 1658):

"If God does not exist, one will lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does exist, one will lose everything by not believing. "

With 'Pascal's wager' he uses probabilistic and mathematical arguments but his main conclusion is that

"...we are compelled to gamble... "

Sorry for the digression.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
A faith-based hero would tend to regard crime-fighting as a calling rather than just a mere job. It's something she was born to do, is compelled to do. We're not talking a Batman or Punisher style obsession, rather a deep-seated knowing, a confidence that this is what the character is supposed to be doing.Since she's part of a Avengers-type global spanning hero team, the local politics part is largely moot, but I think your other points are right on. She probably does consider crime fighting a calling, just as many policemen or firemen do. After all, she can do things literally no one else on Earth can do. What else can someone with SPD 9 and DEX 43 do that isn't a waste of her God-given abilities? Dig ditches? Write software? (although, since her secret ID is as a skilled executive assistant, her typing speed is really something to behold!) :D

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by assault
The point is that that cuts both ways.

Incidentally, there are other "western" moralities than the "Christian" one too.Really? Name one.


Just for a laugh: it's entirely possible to not consider human life to possess intrinsic value without being a serial killer or a sociopath. True. You can be a communist and be praised by progressives all over the world.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Nightfly
How 'bout this...

In Christ's loving name, I kill for Oil !!!! Nightfly, don't you ever get tired of sounding like an utter fool? :rolleyes:

(That was a rhetorical question, in case that went over your head.)

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by "V"
On a side note, the only version of Pascal's wager I've come across is as follows (published in his Pensees of 1658):

"If God does not exist, one will lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does exist, one will lose everything by not believing. "

With 'Pascal's wager' he uses probabilistic and mathematical arguments but his main conclusion is that

"...we are compelled to gamble... "

Sorry for the digression. I think that's a fairly accurate description of how I try to live my life. Sans the first 4 commandments (The ones that describe the relationship between God and Man), the Ten Commandments make a pretty good guide to living a moral life. I'm hoping if he does indeed exist I'll qualify as a "virtuous pagan." :)

I appreciate your thoughts; it's an interesting subject. Keep right on digressing.

[starblaze]

BTW Astro City's Confessor series had Catholic Vampire Priest and a team of Christian SuperHeroes. I forget the name.

[OddHat]

I've always liked the idea of the Catholic Church having the worlds largest and most powerful non-governmental Super Team, drawn from all of the devout Catholics world wide who became Supers.

[lemming]

"Treat others as you would want to be treated."

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Note that that philosophy in no way prevents a life of total debauchery and hedonism as long as you're OK with your friends and aquaintances enjoying themselves too.

I'd like to think there's a bit more to life than just sex and drugs. :D
I suppose the rules lawyer could get away with that. :)
Um, how about "Be good!!!"

[Osprey]

Originally posted by starblaze
BTW Astro City's Confessor series had Catholic Vampire Priest and a team of Christian SuperHeroes. I forget the name.

Cool!!:D

Do you remember who writes/publishes this?
I never heard of it before.

I once saw Paschal's wager accepted by a character in a piece of Catholic Inspirational fiction (about the "End of the World"). He converted (Big surprise).:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Oddhat

I've always liked the idea of the Catholic Church having the worlds largest and most powerful non-governmental Super Team, drawn from all of the devout Catholics world wide who became Supers.

Hey, are you telepathic? Get outta my head!:D

[death tribble]

I had a character who had a religious basis, the Demoness.

Her family was heavily into magic and after her birth her grandfather (father's side) had her further enchanted so that she could wield vast powers. When her mother and father found out they fled with her. Eventually they (Mum and Dad)were killed during a Satanic orgy and she managed to find sanctuary with the Protectors (our Superteam and not the published one) where the Magician (another of my characters) became her mentor.

However the Pentacle (a Black Magic group of sorcery, the supers, and technology, the agents) eventually captured her and split her soul in two bonding it with a demon's. Thus she became the Demoness. This made her rather quick to lose her temper and 'judge' others as the Pentacle tried to control her that way. That and to make Black Magic easier for her to use. She also picked up Soul sight.The ability to see someone else's soul (N-Ray vision).

The other part of her soul housed in the Demon body perished and burns in Hell. She knows this.

The Demoness returned to active service and became one of the leaders in due time. She prizes innocence and hates those who kill 'seemingly for the sake of it'. Like the Wolverine clone......

She had a child out of wedlock with another member of the team who was killed by the Pentacle. The child had no paranormal or mutant powers at all.

She was the only member of the team who avowedly belived in God because she knows that Hell exists as a fact, and that she is denied Heaven.

This struck me as a non-Bible quote to the original question:
"You ask why I do good. I can see the evil in people's souls. All the minor, petty little things like thinking they are better than anyone else around them all the way upto the major sins. I can stop people and point them onto a better path because I know what Hell is, and that it exists. And if they won't listen then I can show them Hell. Literally. If necessary....."

[Nightfly]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Nightfly, don't you ever get tired of sounding like an utter fool? :rolleyes:

I'd rather sound like a fool than a Texan!  Oddly "evildoers" aren't identified quite the same out here in Cali.

Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing isn't it?  Can anyone please give me an example of where Jesus Christ advocates killing??  Anyone??

Just a humble question from a lowly (born in sin??) "fool".

[Vondy]

Leviticus 19:16

"...do not stand on the blood of your neighbor..."

You are obligated to do everything in your power to help someone who is in danger or serious need.

Sounds like a heroic motivation to me.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Nightfly
I'd rather sound like a fool than a Texan! Oddly "evildoers" aren't identified quite the same out here in Cali.

Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing isn't it? Can anyone please give me an example of where Jesus Christ advocates killing?? Anyone??

Just a humble question from a lowly (born in sin??) "fool". Why do you feel it necessary to interject utter nonsequiturs into every discussion? I completely fail to see how that's relevent to this thread. While Californian and Texans may not see eye to eye on some political issues, I think both groups would probably agree that rape, robbery, kidnapping, murder, torture, tyranny, child molestation are evil. Or are you claiming most Californians don't consider those things evil?

I can't think of anywhere Jesus advocated killing. Nor was I asking for such examples for my character in this thread; I was asking for Bible quotations to justify her being a superheroine. In point of fact she has a Code vs Killing. Was anyone in this thread talking about justification for killing villains?

I'm glad you think hypocrisy is a good thing; no doubt your life is entirely lived on its principles. As for your preference to "sound like a fool than a Texan," don't worry. You do. :rolleyes:

[Nightfly]

Tre,

I guess I could (perhaps creatively) wax-on about how stupid you 'n your opinions are, but that would be redundant.

Texas = unrivaled killing (by the state)
Religion = love thy enemy

Question: Does your heroine use violence to settle problems??

If your Code vs. Killing zealot wants to model herself after someone, (or use their motto, if that's your thing) try Gandhi or MLK (that's short for Martin Luther King, for you proud texans).

[Ndreare]

I think it would be very easy to justify a character who is Christian in being a "Superhero"

A fundamental part of being Christian (even if sometimes we forget) is we are all sinners and love your neighbors. As a Christian I know I will fall and make plenty of mistakes. However that does not stop me from trying to help people or donating to charities. If I had power to do more I would like to think I would? This is an easy motivation for a Hero. So run with it and don’t let others shoot you down.




TANGENT WARNING: Allot of people get stuck on the whole "Christians Are The Biggest Hypocrites" thing with out ever trying to figure out were they are coming from or identifying it is actually that all humans are Hypocrites not just one religion or another.

There are a lot of Christians out there that are hypocrites yes. However there are a lot of pagans and atheist that are hypocrites also.

How easy it would be to sit here and judge every one else’s actions as individuals and apply them to a whole group. (That is called prejudice. Meaning to Pre-Judge). The most common complaint I here from non-Christians about my religion is that I/we are arrogant and judgmental. Well I got a surprise for you if you are saying I am judgmental before knowing me then you are being judgmental something you apparently have a problem with.

Non of us are perfect so why start getting into name calling and running of on things like that.

As for atrocities committed in the name of god (your oil comments). Those are atrocities. Because someone says god backs me dose mean he does. It only means that person hopes to gain the acceptance of his actions by his pears. Also you should remember plenty of atrocities were committed outside of Christianity also I would not take this to mean all Atheist are like Hitler or Stalin.

[Osprey]

I probably should have said earlier...

Orthox folks don't place the same priority as Protestant denominations in knowing Scripture back to front.

She may have studied these verses, but may not be able to quote or cite them.

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by Osprey
Cool!!:D

Do you remember who writes/publishes this?
I never heard of it before.

I once saw Paschal's wager accepted by a character in a piece of Catholic Inspirational fiction (about the "End of the World"). He converted (Big surprise).:rolleyes:


Hey, are you telepathic? Get outta my head!:D


Astro City is written by Kurt Busiek and published by Homage Comics, which is an imprint of WildStorm, which is now an imprint of DC. The faith-inspired team in question were called the Cross Breed, but the citizens of AC nicknamed them "the Jesus Freaks."

[Mentor]

Originally posted by Nightfly
Tre,


If your Code vs. Killing zealot wants to model herself after someone, (or use their motto, if that's your thing) try Gandhi or MLK (that's short for Martin Luther King, for you proud texans). That's the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr., Christian minister.:D

[Hermit]

Treb, I think this has a lot of potiential, but there are also a few game mechanic things to consider. :)

I once made a devout super hero who had Change Enviroment, the special effect being a "holy aura" in the area about him. He also had a boost to his HA with a similar SFX. It's absolutely amazing how many villains in supplents have Susceptibility/Vulnerablities to holy ground and attacks :) I really didn't think it would be that useful at the time, but it did. The down side, naturally, is you become Target #1 against foes like Dark Seraph.

You might have decide how such things work in your campaigns. If one wants to hurt say, a vampire lord, will any cross do, or will the character have to have faith IN that?

I recall fondly when the X-men met Dracula. Wolverine tried a 'cross' motion with his claws, to no avail. Dracula sneered, swatted him like a bug and said something to the effect that such things only mattered in the hands of those with true faith.
Enter Nightcrawler, who grabbed two plain sticks, put them together in a similar motion, and said
"Yes monster, But I believe!"
and he hurt Drac BADLY. :D

(Related, Kitty Pyrde tried a crucifix on Dracula, nada. He grabbed her by the throat and yelped as he made contact with her Star of David )

You're definitely going to want to take the 'mechanics' of faith into account.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Nightfly
If your Code vs. Killing zealot wants to model herself after someone, (or use their motto, if that's your thing) try Gandhi or MLK (that's short for Martin Luther King, for you proud texans). Gadfly, I was seriously wondering if your invincible ignorance and patent stupidity was just a clever act, but alas I see it is not. It's a shame some of the intelligent liberals on these boards have to have you as a putative ally; you really lower their collective IQ.

Wax eloquent and in great depth about my many flaws for all I care. You now have an honored place on my Ignore List. :rolleyes:

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Osprey
I probably should have said earlier...

Orthodox folks don't place the same priority as Protestant denominations in knowing Scripture back to front.

She may have studied these verses, but may not be able to quote or cite them. Good point. I wasn't planning on having her pop off Bible quotations at the drop of a hat, only that she takes her religion seriously and honestly. Even most Roman Catholics (Heck, most atheists!) know a few quotes from the Bible; after all it's the central literary source for all of western civilization. Do you know anyone in your life that routinely wears a cross and takes his or her faith seriously? I certainly know lots of people like that.

I think some people have got the wrong idea in this thread. Zl'f is not some type of religious avenger-type; just a young and idealistic woman with high moral standards. She's looking for the same kind of justification that a Christian policeman or soldier would seek in their choice of careers, with the added difficulty of a firm belief that killing is usually wrong. She'd probably never kill anyone herself no matter what the provocation.

Her faith is part of her background, not a central part of the character concept. I just wanted some ammo if someone challenged her being a superheroine as somehow being "wrong" because it involves violence. (If you knew how detailed my character's background writeup is, you'd understand. It's three full 8½ x 11 pages with narrow margins in a 10 point font. That doesn't even include the 2-page writeup of her DNPCs and the short story... :) )

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Hermit
Treb, I think this has a lot of potiential, but there are also a few game mechanic things to consider. :)

I once made a devout super hero who had Change Enviroment, the special effect being a "holy aura" in the area about him. He also had a boost to his HA with a similar SFX. It's absolutely amazing how many villains in supplents have Susceptibility/Vulnerablities to holy ground and attacks :) I really didn't think it would be that useful at the time, but it did. The down side, naturally, is you become Target #1 against foes like Dark Seraph.

You might have decide how such things work in your campaigns. If one wants to hurt say, a vampire lord, will any cross do, or will the character have to have faith IN that?

You're definitely going to want to take the 'mechanics' of faith into account. Actually, I once had a similar experience with this same character when I (briefly)) played her in another campaign before I started this one I'm in now. Our hero team, the Sentinels, was fighting a Demon Lord in Albany IIRC. My character (called Flash Dancer in those days) was the only team member who was devoutly christian and routinely wore a Russian Orthodox crucifix. Not only was the bad guy unable to look at her crucifix, but when he actually managed to hit her and knock her into the nearest building it turned out to be (wait for it) a Russian Orthodox church. Because of her faith he not only couldn't enter the building to finish her off, but when she recovered and reentered the battle she was able to burn him badly with holy water taken from the nave.

Ya gotta have faith. :D

[Cybernaut]

Is she the same character from the story you sent me a while back? (The Russian-born speedster/martial artist that pulled off a daring boarder crossing into Poland).

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Cybernaut
Is she the same character from the story you sent me a while back? (The Russian-born speedster/martial artist that pulled off a daring boarder crossing into Poland). Yep, same character, although the border crossing was actually into Finland. I'm currently working (Since last October!) on a new much longer short story about her. So far it's 25 pages long; I expect it'll hit 40 or 50 when I'm done.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by D-Man
Leviticus 19:16

"...do not stand on the blood of your neighbor..."

You are obligated to do everything in your power to help someone who is in danger or serious need.

Sounds like a heroic motivation to me. Dave, my King James quotes that particular passage as "neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbor", which seems to imply a different meaning. I would read that to be saying "Do no harm to your neighbor or his family."

Or am I interpreting that wrong?

[Cybernaut]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Yep, same character, although the border crossing was actually into Finland.

Oh, Finland, my bad. (it's been a while since I read it).


I'm currently working (Since last October!) on a new much longer short story about her. So far it's 25 pages long; I expect it'll hit 40 or 50 when I'm done.

Cool. Please send my a copy when it's ready. :)

PS: I'm planning to write a squel to the story I sent you back then. I'm currently debating with myself as to what to do with Angelica (considering what happen to her in the conculsion of the last story). I'm also thinking about a prequel that revolves around Trevor, Evan, and Nick and their criminal exploits during the 1970s. Any suggestions?

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Cybernaut
Cool. Please send my a copy when it's ready. :)

PS: I'm planning to write a squel to the story I sent you back then. I'm currently debating with myself as to what to do with Angelica (considering what happen to her in the conculsion of the last story). I'm also thinking about a prequel that revolves around Trevor, Evan, and Nick and their criminal exploits during the 1970s. Any suggestions? If I ever finish it, I'll send you a copy. :)

You're talking about the story with the fallen angel, right? Yeah, a sequel might be tough although you might consider introducing a more "good" angel than Angelique was as a new foil. Perhaps one that acts stupid so his opponents underestimate him but is actually pretty sharp would provide an interesting twist.