Universal Skills

[pinecone]

I've been thinking about the "Universal" skill mods lately, you know Universal translator (Linguist) etc...

And I hit on the thought of using "universal" versions of skills. I have a heavy hitter power copier (Marduk) who I was thinking should have Universal Power Skill (Power skill: usable with Any Power)

And then I though of Universal Enviro-movement....maybe a dimensional explorer? What others would work, and whats a fair cost? I'm thinking 10 to 15 points sounds right, but I'm not totally convinced by either just yet.

Thanx for any input....

[ghost-angel]

The Ultimate Skill has more of these and goes a little bit into using them or creating more.

[pinecone]

Cool! I'm Out of Town right now, so I guess I can do a bit of reading come Saturday...

[pinecone]

OK...I looked and "Normal" Universals aply to skill mods...you know like Linguist and stuff like that...well I did not see anything that said otherwise.

So I'm thinking that Universal Power Skill is not covered, likewise Universal Envonmental move...

Any ideas?

[Sean Waters]

Universal translator is built as a detect (and costed out wrong). That could be forced to work for knowledge skills (with sufficient coercive brutality) but doesn't work well for other skill sets.

You can just assume Hero has decided 'Universal *fill in the blank*' costs 20 points and go for it.

If you are not happy with that, and why should you be, Universal environmental movement can be built as 3 penalty skill levels to offset DCV and DC penalties but leave out the 'in a specific environment' limitation.

Universal power skill is more problematic and even dodgier: Advantaged Power Skill (variable SFX +1/2 any sfx) for 4 points.

[ghost-angel]

Pinecone, I'm getting a bit confused by your terminology:

Are you talking about Skill Enhancers that give a cost break to purchases of similar skill groupings.

Or Universal Skills, which allow you to effectively have "1 of each of this type of skill."

If the former just call it "Enhanced Mover" and it providea -1 cost break to purchasing any Enhanced Movement Talent.

If the latter, "Universal Movement" would, for all intents and purposes, allow you to freely move on any surface/condition you encoutner: under water, air, ice/slippery surfaces, narrow ledges, while drunk, Zero-G, and any other you can think of.

Just take the concepts from pp48-50 in Ult. Skill and extrapolate to whatever kind of skill or ability you need.

[pinecone]

Pinecone, I'm getting a bit confused by your terminology:

Are you talking about Skill Enhancers that give a cost break to purchases of similar skill groupings.

Or Universal Skills, which allow you to effectively have "1 of each of this type of skill."

If the former just call it "Enhanced Mover" and it providea -1 cost break to purchasing any Enhanced Movement Talent.

If the latter, "Universal Movement" would, for all intents and purposes, allow you to freely move on any surface/condition you encoutner: under water, air, ice/slippery surfaces, narrow ledges, while drunk, Zero-G, and any other you can think of.

Just take the concepts from pp48-50 in Ult. Skill and extrapolate to whatever kind of skill or ability you need.

Yeah, sorry man I'm working very wonky hours, and it's tweaking my melon.

The "Universal" skills I saw in Ulti-skill seem to be "jumbo" versions of skill enhancers.

So Linguist> Universal translator, Scientst> Universal scientist/ "Maven" etc...

There is no examples for Universal skills I could see, so if I want a Power skill I can use with a Power copier, I was thinking I could bash up a version of Universal skill.

But a skill is more limited than the broad swath of skills offered by the Universals based on skill modifiers, I think 20 per is too high. And while I'm "pondering", what about a specialized "skill"/Talent like Enviro-move? around 10 to 15 "feels" right, but is it right?

[pinecone]

Universal translator is built as a detect (and costed out wrong). That could be forced to work for knowledge skills (with sufficient coercive brutality) but doesn't work well for other skill sets.

You can just assume Hero has decided 'Universal *fill in the blank*' costs 20 points and go for it.

If you are not happy with that, and why should you be, Universal environmental movement can be built as 3 penalty skill levels to offset DCV and DC penalties but leave out the 'in a specific environment' limitation.

Universal power skill is more problematic and even dodgier: Advantaged Power Skill (variable SFX +1/2 any sfx) for 4 points.

Sean, I'm thinking 20 per is too high because any single skill is inherantly less flexable than "All skills of type "X" " And 10 just seems too low....

I guess I could go with PSL's and drop some lims...but I was hoping to work out a construct so that if a "Super brain" character wants say "Universal Analyze" I can go with out blinking "Sure! spend 12 points and call it good" (or whatever...)

[ghost-angel]

No worries mate, just trying to get a feel of what you're after.

And I think it's a bit of both.

Also look at Skill Combinations on page 9 of The Ult. Skill.
That may actually fit what you're after a little better, as it talks about grouping a set of Skills under one banner that relates them and associating a flat cost to that grouping.

If those don't suit you, I think different things would work with different ideas.

A Movement Enhancer seems a better choice to go with for purchasing multiple Enhanced Movement Talents.

Well Balanced
For 3pts you have an uncanny ability to always keep your footing and bearing in odd conditions. Enhanced Movement Talents cost you 1pt less and you can learn new ones more quickly as you easily adapt to new situations.

Power Monger
There is no Special Effect you cannot bend to your will. For 10pts you have an 11- Power Skill Roll for any SFX you can utilize. +2 for a +1 to the Roll.
-this would be similar to buying Power Skill with the Variable SFX: Any Advantage, only just worded and worked more simply. If your campaign has a LOT of different SFX than 20pts for this Skill is not unreasonable since 3pts/Skill could get you 6-7 total Power Skill Rolls, but calling a flat 20 as Any SFX instead of specifying may be a bargain.

[pinecone]

Cool...what was in my mind (and unable to get out) was that I sort of sense a buried idea in the hero system...."Universal" or "Super flexable"...

So we have power frameworks, add Universal and you get VPP...

We have skill mods (Scientist, etc...) add Universal and we get Universal skill monger/lingust etc....

So I was looking to uneath that concept and take it into skills, PSLs, talents....when ever and where ever. That way once I fully understand the concept I can add it to my bag of tricks...

[pinecone]

Driving home from work I thought of "universal Transport Fam" anywhere, anywhen, you know how to make it go.... I even thought about my concept of "Expanded literacy" (Old thread) what about a god of letters that has Universal Literacy He knows all forms of writing...but can only speak what he pays for....

[pinecone]

I'm stll chewing on this one...so far I'm sorry to say, it looks like a case by case method is the only way to handle this.

For Universal skills I plan to go with 12 pts as a cost (4x base)

For PSL based skills like enviro-move TF and other "Cancell out non pro penaltys" I plan to eyeball them at 9 pts each... (aprox 3x base)

I tend to be a collabrative problem solver, so I welcome input. Even if I ignore advice, I still tresure it...:)

[ghost-angel]

Nothing wrong with a case-by-case look at what you want to do.

In fact it's often better than the often proposed concept that there has to be a single underlying 'foundation' to make things 'consistent'

I say price it to how you feel it'll work in the games you want to run. Heck, price it differently for each game.

[pinecone]

Yeah, that looks like where I'm ending up at...seems owfully "old school" though, but I don't think I can avoid it....