Marketing Hero Paper and Pencil RPG in the Age of Computer Gaming

[The Discourser]

I have been watching and reading the multitude of threads regarding the update of the Hero System rules for the 6th edition. I have some concerns about the revision, however, I have more serious concerns about the marketing and sustainability of paper and pencil RPGs in the age of digital gaming.

I have recently returned from yet another gaming convention and as it has been for the past couple of years, I am woefully saddened by the lack of role playing games. Many of the conventions I attend have rooms dedicated to children and creating an interest in them for the hobby. However, more often than not someone plugs in an X-Box/PS whatever/Wii and the attention gravitates to that medium. Left alone are board games, miniatures, cards, and RPGs. For those of you unaware and content in your gaming circles, the genre of RPGs is dying away. Most of the "gamers" for the pencil and paper genre are, from my observations, getting older while the younger players are absent.

I have been playing Hero system games such as Champions, Danger International, Fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero, and Star Hero for more than 25 years. While I am happy that Hero has been purchased by an actual fan rather than some corporate entity, the absence of Hero games represented at my three large local conventions is shameful. These three conventions are held within 20 minutes of the original offices of Hero games. The majority of the games being offered are hosted by my gaming group or friends of our gaming group.

Some radical ideas must be considered in order to grow the hobby and the genre, most specifically Hero. I have taken the time to actually sit down and work with contacts in the marketing and business arena to ask what could be done to resucitate the industry. Here are a few suggestions.

1. Know your market. Looking around a gaming convention one will quickly see that it is a male dominated event. Gaming conventions, much like large car shows are bastions for testosterone. Use that to your advantage while marketing your product. The most successful dealers and promoters utilize insanely good looking women to attract people (men) to their tables. E3 does it. Car shows have been doing it for decades. The gaming sphere should also do it. Drawing more people to your product by whatever means will surely increase interest and potential sales. Hero would be well suited to employ this tactic. While I love talking to Darren and the rest of the troop I am certain the booth draw would be greatly enhanced by this marketing strategy. Maybe even teach the booth girls to play and have people run through demos with them at the booth. Sales will increase...guaranteed.

2. Embrace the Digital Age. Young people are digital natives of the 21st century. They are immersed in media 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If you have any doubts, watch a teenage boy or girl after they get out of school. IPod in ears, texting on phone, updating MySpace...the list goes on. It is imperative to reach this market demographic. But how?

Hero has already taken a step by working with Cryptic Studios to produce a Champions themed MMORPG. However, that is only one avenue and will not address the needs of the paper and pencil genre.

One potential strategy is to address the system books themselves. Return to the stripped down basics of the 1st edition, creating a skeletal framework for people to use. This will create innovation within the system. By keeping the rules simple rather than bloated, the "books" can then be morphed into a digital format. No, I do not mean creating them as boring PDFs. I mean make the books entirely interactive with animations explaining the more complex parts of the system. Textbook publishers are moving in this direction for schools. The gaming industry would be wise to investigate this medium. I mean really, when is the last time you saw a kid pick up a 600 page book to read. Schools cannot get them to pick up their textbooks.

No disrespect but the latest 5th edition release looks awfully like a text book. I wouldn't pick it up.

Our youth are inceasingly technological. The mid-20th century strategies of marketing the genre are dying. We must meet the youth where they are comfortable, in the 21st century through a medium they are familiar.

Purists will balk. Go ahead and balk. If nothing is done and the way the medium is marketed stays with the status quo the next complaint out of your mouths will be there is no one left to play.

[Sketchpad]

So are you suggesting a move towards a digital game table like Wizards of the Coast is developing? Also, keep in mind that Hero does produce Sidekick, a much smaller and more affordable version of their rules that are stripped down and an introduction to the system.
I agree that I'd like to see 6th edition look a little more like a game book rather than a school book, but as far as cost and size, Hero's on par (and in some cases smaller) with the rest of the industry :)

Not balking ... just bantering :)

Welcome to the Boards BTW :D

[NestorDRod]

Dunno. My experience a few weeks ago at GenCon belies some of what you're saying.

I saw a good number of younger players, usually accompanied by their parents, trying out and becoming interested in PnP RPGs. Maybe not Hero, but certainly RPGs as opposed to computer games or CCGs.

I had a parent come up to me after a particular run and compliment how our game had sparked an interest in her son and how, as a school teacher, she could see the use of RPGs as a way to provide social interaction and maybe even sneak in some education to her students.

I guess it's just a matter of perception.

FWIW, I deal with the fact that around where I live (Baltimore, MD), there are no major gaming conventions. None. Zip. Nada. Three well-known SF conventions (Farpoint, Balticon, Shore Leave) and one of the largest anime conventions in the US (Otakon) all occur downtown, but for gaming the best we can find are local basement cons.

[Karmakaze]

Gaming conventions, much like large car shows are bastions for testosterone. Use that to your advantage while marketing your product. The most successful dealers and promoters utilize insanely good looking women to attract people (men) to their tables. E3 does it. Car shows have been doing it for decades. The gaming sphere should also do it. Drawing more people to your product by whatever means will surely increase interest and potential sales. Hero would be well suited to employ this tactic. While I love talking to Darren and the rest of the troop I am certain the booth draw would be greatly enhanced by this marketing strategy. Maybe even teach the booth girls to play and have people run through demos with them at the booth. Sales will increase...guaranteed.

*sigh* If only I were hot...

[archermoo]

While I am happy that Hero has been purchased by an actual fan rather than some corporate entity, the absence of Hero games represented at my three large local conventions is shameful. These three conventions are held within 20 minutes of the original offices of Hero games. The majority of the games being offered are hosted by my gaming group or friends of our gaming group.

Well, assuming that the three local cons aren't scheduled at the same time as something else that the Hero crew feels they have to give priority to (like GenCon, GTS, etc) I'm sure they would at least consider showing up if they were invited. Without an invite my understanding is that it is much less likely.

[lemming]

Well, assuming that the three local cons aren't scheduled at the same time as something else that the Hero crew feels they have to give priority to (like GenCon, GTS, etc) I'm sure they would at least consider showing up if they were invited. Without an invite my understanding is that it is much less likely.

Curious which cons they are, since DDC & KublaCon have Hero support and are in the neighborhood.

[teh bunneh]

When I noticed that there were no Hero games being run at my local cons, I stepped up to the plate and volunteered. I run three Hero games at the big Denver con (GenghisCon in February), and I've never had less than a full table. If you're unhappy that no one is running any Hero games... why aren't you? :)

[Egyptoid]

put coupons in the back page like Hack-Master

[CUnknown]

I disagree with the OP. Discourser, you are worried about the "sustainability" of pencil and paper RPGs? I wouldn't be concerned. As long as there are games like D&D out there, they will serve as the gateway for people to try more complex games like Hero. Pencil and paper RPGs have always been a nitche market. They will always continue to be one. True hard-core computer gaming has always been and will continue to be a nitche market as well (compare games like Dominions 3 to WoW -- one is true computer gaming, the other is mass marketed crap). Not many people who are interested in WoW would be interested in Dominions, and not many who like deep, complex strategy games would be interested in WoW (at least interested beyond a passing curiosity, anyway).

I see no reason to fear for the future of hard core computer gaming any more than I see a reason to fear for the future of pencil and paper RPGs. They are both played by a very small number of people, that number will not grow or shrink substantially in the foreseeable future. If anything, WoW serves to bring the mainstream gamer into pencil and paper gaming at a faster rate. Not many of them would try Hero, admittedly, but D&D should continue to do pretty well. And if D&D does well, so will Hero.

I see young players trying pencil and paper all the time. I guess we just have a difference of perception about that. At least in my area, PnP is doing just fine with the younger crowd -- that is to say that hardly any of them play it (as it has always been). But some do.

Know Your Market. Haha, gaming books always have hot chicks on the covers, don't they?

Embrace the Digital Age. "It is imperative to reach this market demographic." Why is it imperative? Hero will never appeal to this kind of person, the type of person we're going after are the nerds who like to sit quietly and read. There aren't many of them, there never have been or will be. But once they find Hero, they'll probably like it. It just needs to be advertised and played at conventions, there is no reason to simplify the system book or do anything drastic. Perhaps getting a facebook profile for Hero or something would help, I dunno. But I doubt it would bring any players in.

The Hero book's "textbook" feel doesn't need to be changed. That's what Hero is, a toolkit. Utilitarian and packed with heavy equipment. It will only ever appeal to a nitche market. Perhaps adding hot chicks would help, though, heh, maybe you're right. :D Keep it the same but put a hot chick on the cover.

"Some radical ideas must be considered in order to grow the hobby and the genre, most specifically Hero."

You make it sound as if the playerbase is shrinking. Do you have any evidence of this? Are the profits of Wizards of the Coast shrinking or something? Just taking a look at Hasbro's stock graph, it seems to be doing just fine. *shrug*

Does anyone else see a lack of young pencil and paper gamers out there? Seems to me it's about the same as when I was young. No one else knew what my little group of nerds was doing... it was nitche, for sure. You can't compare WoW to PnP gaming.. WoW is a mainstream thing to do.

Besides, why does the playerbase ever have to grow, anyway? Has it ever really grown, as a % of the population? Past like 1985, I don't think it's ever really grown. It doesn't need to.

[Nolgroth]

I share many of the same concerns as Discourser. My only other comment is; try to take that computer game camping with you. One of the absolutely best games I was in was in a tent with the wind blowing the trees around outside. Gaming by gaslight was an absolute blast.

Now back to your regular discussion.

[Curufea]

Also why I'm a fan of rules-lite and storytelling games. They're very portable and you don't have to memorise anything (or at least very little), so gaming on the fly - impromptu one-offs and things are very easily done.

[bubba smith]

another way to spread interest in HERO games is if you know anyone who might be inerested email the with the main page of the HERO games site to them and let nature take its course

[casualplayer]

I appreciate the effort that Discourser put in. It shows caring and forethought, and shouldn't be diminished. Should get a No-prize or something.

Selling to Congoers is preaching to the choir. These are Gamers with a capital "G" and they have already claimed their niche. It's important to have presence there to maintain the image of a supported system, it's an opportunity to press the flesh, it's an opportunity to sell some product at retail prices :thumbup: and cheese off the other tiers in the system :thumbdown: but it's a horrible venue to make converts.

You need to go where there is interest but no commitment, because you really want to make "Lifers," people who will be playing into their Thirties or even beyond! :weep:;) So you need to target youth groups and large scale book distribution. Schools with gaming clubs, hangout bookstores and libraries, trade shows, scouting troops, book fairs. You need to be seen by lots of new eyes, not just be the latest shiny thing drawing the Con magpies.

We're I HERO Games, I would put together a demo package, say, Core Rules, genre book of choice & 6 Sidekicks for an attractive price. The kicker is that upon proof of use, contact info for everyone who received a Sidekick and a submitted, written adventure log I would either refund their money or give them like credit at the Company Store.

Allying with Cryptic was a strong move on so many fronts, and should pay off for both companies. Hopefully HERO gets a corner of Cryptic's E3 booth as part of the deal so they can get their books in front of new eyes.

I agree that the presentation of the material needs to change. It's dry and daunting, pretentious and unpersonable. It appeals to lawyers and code monkeys and few else. It is a chore to learn, and that's not a good selling point. Without an interpreter, it can be impenetrable. HERO has noted this and taken excellent steps, with Sidekick and PS238 HERO and, hopefully, 6th Ed.

The men in charge are aware and responsive but they have to walk that crazy line of attracting new players while not driving off the grognards and fatbeards. I don't envy them, but I do admire them.

[BNakagawa]

I suspect the OP just attended Pacificon, or rather ConQuest wrapping itself in Pacificon's burial shroud.

It's a miniatures convention that tolerates RPGs. Barely. Always has.

As for the other two, I think you could have gotten to DunDraCon's old digs at the Oakland Airport Hyatt from the old hero games offices in 20 minutes at 3am with no traffic, but not the current one. Unless you had the keys to the batcar or something.

In any case, I don't see how booth babes are going to seriously affect sales. There are two kinds of companies that employ them at gaming cons. New companies looking to make a splashy entrance and older ones desperate for some attention.

WizKids brought out some superhero lookalikes to be life sized heroclix for some demos at GenCon this year. WizKids also is in the process of laying off 90% of its staff.

Given that convention promotions are as previously described, preaching to the choir, I think you'd be far better off with some promotion that is geared towards serious gamers. Like bring Storn Cook to the booth and have him do quickie character sketches for anyone who spends over 100 bux. That would boost sales.

[caris]

When I noticed that there were no Hero games being run at my local cons, I stepped up to the plate and volunteered. I run three Hero games at the big Denver con (GenghisCon in February), and I've never had less than a full table. If you're unhappy that no one is running any Hero games... why aren't you? :)

I don't think that the OP was complaining that no one was running a game by that Hero Games, the company, did not have a presence at those cons.

[archermoo]

Eh, it appears to have been a drive by anyway...

[casualplayer]

Eh, it appears to have been a drive by anyway...

It's only been since the 1st. Not everybody lives here.

[aylwin13]

They don't? :confused:

[teh bunneh]

I don't think that the OP was complaining that no one was running a game by that Hero Games, the company, did not have a presence at those cons.

Ah. Well, in that case I'd say that the Hero guys show up at the two big gamer cons (Gencon and Origins), and many smaller ones as well. I'd love them to show up at all my little local cons as well, but they can't be everywhere.

[Hermit]

It's only been since the 1st. Not everybody lives here.

You call this a life?

;)

[archermoo]

Ah. Well, in that case I'd say that the Hero guys show up at the two big gamer cons (Gencon and Origins), and many smaller ones as well. I'd love them to show up at all my little local cons as well, but they can't be everywhere.

And how do they choose which local cons they go to? For the most part by looking at the list of cons that have invited them. There are a few that they go to because they are profitable, but that list is pretty short. Pretty much Dundracon, KublaCon, GTS and GenCon if I'm not mistaken. And I believe that last KublaCon Darren was a GoH. Unless the expected sales at the con will pay for their presence I don't think they have the kind of money to throw around to just show up to smaller cons on their own dime.

[BNakagawa]

Personally, I'd be surprised if they don't try to work out some sort of deal to piggyback on Cryptic's dime and have some sort of presence at SDCC when the MMORPG ships.

I mean, it's only the size of GenCon, Origins and DragonCon combined...

[archermoo]

Personally, I'd be surprised if they don't try to work out some sort of deal to piggyback on Cryptic's dime and have some sort of presence at SDCC when the MMORPG ships.

I mean, it's only the size of GenCon, Origins and DragonCon combined...

Which leaves us with the question of whether CO will be ready by end of July next year or not... :)

[ghost-angel]

According to all stories... they hope to have a spring launch. But - it's software. Spring09 might translate to the Real World as January'10

[archermoo]

According to all stories... they hope to have a spring launch. But - it's software. Spring09 might translate to the Real World as January'10

Ah, good to hear. Last I heard (and this was a while ago) they were looking at a Summer09 release.

[Darren Watts]

The current official word is "Second Quarter '09." So June 30th isn't late. Granted, there has never been an MMO in the history of MMO's that shipped on time- OTOH, there's never been an MMO before that had me and Steve kicking their asses. So irresistable force vs. immovable object and all that. We'll see- so far they haven't missed an internal target date along the way... dw

[ghost-angel]

Having the demo as playable as it was at GenCon, I can believe a 2Q'09 release. Or even early 3Q. I would honestly be surprised if it was later than that after hammering one guy with questions (I wish I could remember who I was talking to).

[Ternaugh]

I appreciate the effort that Discourser put in. It shows caring and forethought, and shouldn't be diminished. Should get a No-prize or something.

Selling to Congoers is preaching to the choir. These are Gamers with a capital "G" and they have already claimed their niche. It's important to have presence there to maintain the image of a supported system, it's an opportunity to press the flesh, it's an opportunity to sell some product at retail prices :thumbup: and cheese off the other tiers in the system :thumbdown: but it's a horrible venue to make converts.

You need to go where there is interest but no commitment, because you really want to make "Lifers," people who will be playing into their Thirties or even beyond! :weep:;) So you need to target youth groups and large scale book distribution. Schools with gaming clubs, hangout bookstores and libraries, trade shows, scouting troops, book fairs. You need to be seen by lots of new eyes, not just be the latest shiny thing drawing the Con magpies.

We're I HERO Games, I would put together a demo package, say, Core Rules, genre book of choice & 6 Sidekicks for an attractive price. The kicker is that upon proof of use, contact info for everyone who received a Sidekick and a submitted, written adventure log I would either refund their money or give them like credit at the Company Store.

Allying with Cryptic was a strong move on so many fronts, and should pay off for both companies. Hopefully HERO gets a corner of Cryptic's E3 booth as part of the deal so they can get their books in front of new eyes.

I agree that the presentation of the material needs to change. It's dry and daunting, pretentious and unpersonable. It appeals to lawyers and code monkeys and few else. It is a chore to learn, and that's not a good selling point. Without an interpreter, it can be impenetrable. HERO has noted this and taken excellent steps, with Sidekick and PS238 HERO and, hopefully, 6th Ed.

The men in charge are aware and responsive but they have to walk that crazy line of attracting new players while not driving off the grognards and fatbeards. I don't envy them, but I do admire them.

I have to say that I like the idea of a demo package, or a "Hero Convention Party Pack", if you will. I also like what was done in the PS238 book, with everything you need to get started in one volume. It's much less intimidating for someone just beginning with the hobby. PS238 is also a pleasant reminder of the Hero 3rd edition sets, where everything you needed for a game was in one box or book.

JoeG

[casualplayer]

And on the HERO Games facing page, they say they had a presence at PAX courtesy of Cryptic. Such a deal they made!

[The Discourser]

Sorry I have been away for a while. Real life has been asserting excessive demands. No matter.

I attend two of the three major conventions in the SF Bay Area. As one said earlier, Conquest which is draped in the burial shroud of Pacificon was an utter joke for RPGs. Kublacon is a much better venue on the west side of the Bay with Dundracon still holding strong on the east side.

Casual Player makes very good points I failed to consider. We are absolutely preaching to the choir at conventions. I was indoctrinated at school in the 4th grade. Yes, D&D is a gateway game yet I do not see 45 Hero games being scheduled for conventions like I see D&D.

I do not have the answer nor do I think there is a magic bullet for the paper and pencil RPG future. I am making these references by what I see twice a year at the conventions I attend. I just want the industry that has allowed me to have so much fun to sustain itself amidst the plethora of online and platform games.

[archermoo]

Sorry I have been away for a while. Real life has been asserting excessive demands. No matter.

I attend two of the three major conventions in the SF Bay Area. As one said earlier, Conquest which is draped in the burial shroud of Pacificon was an utter joke for RPGs. Kublacon is a much better venue on the west side of the Bay with Dundracon still holding strong on the east side.

Casual Player makes very good points I failed to consider. We are absolutely preaching to the choir at conventions. I was indoctrinated at school in the 4th grade. Yes, D&D is a gateway game yet I do not see 45 Hero games being scheduled for conventions like I see D&D.

I do not have the answer nor do I think there is a magic bullet for the paper and pencil RPG future. I am making these references by what I see twice a year at the conventions I attend. I just want the industry that has allowed me to have so much fun to sustain itself amidst the plethora of online and platform games.

Well then I'm confused. Hero has a presence at both Kublacon and Dundracon. Quite a strong one at DDC.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Well then I'm confused. Hero has a presence at both Kublacon and Dundracon. Quite a strong one at DDC.Indeed. In fact, for at least the last several years, there have been more Hero games at DDC than for any other RPG except xD&D.

[archermoo]

Indeed. In fact, for at least the last several years, there have been more Hero games at DDC than for any other RPG except xD&D.

And at least one each year for the last several run by one of the owners of Hero. :)

[Lord Fyre]

*sigh* If only I were hot...

(Karmakaze . . . Check my sig again. :winkgrin: )

[Lord Fyre]

Know Your Market. Haha, gaming books always have hot chicks on the covers, don't they?

Not always.

Done well, it can do exactly what the OP suggested it would do. Catch the eye of the (mostly male) gaming consumer. :winkgrin: But . . . done poorly, this will alienate the growing female market for P&P RPGs. :think:

Sexy, Iconic, [Powerful & Inspiring] Heroine can be good; exploited sex object, not so much. :love: (Hero Games has generally done pretty well.)


Besides, why does the playerbase ever have to grow, anyway? Has it ever really grown, as a % of the population? Past like 1985, I don't think it's ever really grown. It doesn't need to.

Well, Mr. Long not starving would be a good reason for the hobby to grow. ;)

More seriously, a growing hobby supports more companies & gaming products. :yes: (Not to mention, it also makes it easier to find a gaming group.) A shrinking or stagnate hobby will make everything into D&D. :sick: