This Human doesn't smell threatening

[BobGreenwade]

Fact: Many wildlife animals are able to smell a scent given off by humans (which we can't ourselves detect) that creates a fear response. To them, we smell like predators. A very few humans are born without this scent, but nearly all of us have it.

Question #1: How would you model, as a Talent, the absence of this odor? In what I'm writing currently I'm using Invisibility vs Smell Group, with a Limitation to that single Sense (and with other appropriate Modifiers like 0 END, Persistent, Always On), but I wonder if someone else might not have a better idea.

Question #2: What would you call this, as a Talent? As a working name I'm calling it Animal Safety, but that sounds a bit cheesy and not quite descriptive to its function. There's already an Animal Friendship Talent, so I don't want to use that.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions (including those I don't take). :)

[Acme]

I would suggest that rather than Invisibilty to Scent Group (bloodhounds can still find you, recognize you over a look-alike, etc.) you could instead take Images to Scent Group (with the usual 0END, Persistent, etc.) with the Set Effect Limitation, "Non-Threatening."

Or, to save time, take Animal Handler: All Categories with some sort of Limitation like, "Only to Calm, Not Train" (likely -1/2 to -1).

[McCoy]

A very few humans are born without this scent, but nearly all of us have it.
This can be aquired. I use to go vegetarian a month before bow season. I could get much close, even stalking downwind, than I could at other times. Also handwashed my hunting clothes in unclorinated well water with unscented soap. Could only do this carrying a bow, apparently the deer can smell a rifle.

But what Acme said, images: non-threatening.

[CTaylor]

Perhaps some sort of images would work (smells like non threatening person) but a perk would suffice for most campaigns, I'd say.

[Lord Liaden]

I would favor the Perk route myself. Perhaps base it on Reputation, with the "How Well Known" modifier derived from the average animal Smell Perception roll number.

[Sociotard]

I'd say change environment. Deer trying to smell such a person would be more likely to fail, but they would not fail absolutely. I like the feel of risk while gaming.

[Doc Democracy]

Question #1: How would you model, as a Talent, the absence of this odor? In what I'm writing currently I'm using Invisibility vs Smell Group, with a Limitation to that single Sense (and with other appropriate Modifiers like 0 END, Persistent, Always On), but I wonder if someone else might not have a better idea.

As an alternative to the images suggestions above, this is very much a bluff style thing. You are trying to make the animal believe something that isn't true - hence the images thing.

I would suggest something that changes you - shapeshift scent to non-predator scent.


Question #2: What would you call this, as a Talent? As a working name I'm calling it Animal Safety, but that sounds a bit cheesy and not quite descriptive to its function. There's already an Animal Friendship Talent, so I don't want to use that.

May I suggest Wildlife Harmony?

Doc

[OddHat]

This is a perk worth, at the very most, 1 point. It doesn't let you train animals like Animal Handling, it doesn't even add a bonus to the skill in most cases. It doesn't give you the majority of the benefits associated with Invisibility to Smell Group (you can still be tracked, your emotional state can still be read by smell based detects or telepathy).

You could, possibly, buy it as a 2 or 3 point skill level. +1 to Animal Handling, +1 to Stealth only vs Animals, +1 to all animal related skills (though that last is harder to justify).

[McCoy]

This is a perk worth, at the very most, 1 point. It doesn't let you train animals like Animal Handling, it doesn't even add a bonus to the skill in most cases. It doesn't give you the majority of the benefits associated with Invisibility to Smell Group (you can still be tracked, your emotional state can still be read by smell based detects or telepathy).

You could, possibly, buy it as a 2 or 3 point skill level. +1 to Animal Handling, +1 to Stealth only vs Animals, +1 to all animal related skills (though that last is harder to justify).
I would say it would also serve as a bonus to survival and hunting skills. That's why I worked at smelling non-threatening.

That would be another way to do this, as a Sx for an animal-related skill level.

[OddHat]

I would say it would also serve as a bonus to survival and hunting skills. That's why I worked at smelling non-threatening.

That would be another way to do this, as a Sx for an animal-related skill level.

If it had an effect, I think that's how I'd handle it; buy a 3 point skill level for a group of closely related skills (all skills where smelling non threatening is helpful), and then call it "Non-Predator's Scent".

[BobGreenwade]

It doesn't give you the majority of the benefits associated with Invisibility to Smell Group (you can still be tracked, your emotional state can still be read by smell based detects or telepathy). That's why I originally posited a Limitation that it only works versus that one specific scent.
I would say it would also serve as a bonus to survival and hunting skills. That's why I worked at smelling non-threatening.Part of the problem with it as a bonus to survival and hunting, is that the point of doing this isn't always to try to trap, kill, and/or eat the animal. After all, not all of the affected animals (small birds, squirrels, etc.) are necessarily food animals for humans. Sometimes it's just to get close and make friends, to treat the animal's injury for humanitarian or ecological reasons, or a wide variety of other things.

There was a TV character long ago (I think it was Grizzly Adams, but I may be confusing him with someone else) who had this ability, and it aided him in living in harmony with wildlife.

I'm a little resistant to using Images, because Images is a "positive" ability -- it adds a scent where none was before. There's a subtle difference between smelling like a non-predator and not smelling like a predator. I'm not rejecting the idea outright, since it probably would achieve the desired result for less than Invisibility (adding in No Fringe brings the final cost to 13 points, though I do think that the Limitation for only affecting this one Sense should be more than the book-listed -1/4).

[Sean Waters]

Animal Handler (the skill) allows you to calm wild beasts with a roll at a penalty of -2 to -5, so how about some PSLs* or just limited skill levels?


*...because Sean, for some reason, PSLs only apply to combat related penalties. Why?

[Sean Waters]

I like 'Wildlife Harmony', but I might also suggest Animal Friend/Animal Acceptance/Calming Aura or whatever.

One point: if the person emits a scent, just not a threatening one, animals will soon learn to be threatened by someone smelling like that if he abuses it.

[OddHat]

That's why I originally posited a Limitation that it only works versus that one specific scent.Part of the problem with it as a bonus to survival and hunting, is that the point of doing this isn't always to try to trap, kill, and/or eat the animal. After all, not all of the affected animals (small birds, squirrels, etc.) are necessarily food animals for humans. Sometimes it's just to get close and make friends, to treat the animal's injury for humanitarian or ecological reasons, or a wide variety of other things.

There was a TV character long ago (I think it was Grizzly Adams, but I may be confusing him with someone else) who had this ability, and it aided him in living in harmony with wildlife.

I'm a little resistant to using Images, because Images is a "positive" ability -- it adds a scent where none was before. There's a subtle difference between smelling like a non-predator and not smelling like a predator. I'm not rejecting the idea outright, since it probably would achieve the desired result for less than Invisibility (adding in No Fringe brings the final cost to 13 points, though I do think that the Limitation for only affecting this one Sense should be more than the book-listed -1/4).

I see (and saw) what you're trying to do; it sounds interesting. Still, 13 points seems too high for the utility it's likely to offer, even in a campaign set in an appropriate area and period. I'd suggest that 3 point skill levels with a tight group of skills (Animal Handler, Survival, Riding) or just +X with Animal Handling fit the SFX fine, and give your players more practical value for their points.

[CTaylor]

Yeah, this doesn't make you smell like nothing to animals, it just makes them less cautious and less likely to flee when you are scented.

[Hyper-Man]

Assuming that this is biological based ability that the character is aware of, does he always go to the trouble of removing all other human (threatening) scents from his clothing and equipment?

If so it would make the ability much less useful and more like the original "Invisible Man" who couldn't make anything else invisible.

[BoneDaddy]

How about a COM bonus, with the limitation of Only for animals (-2)? 1 point gets you a +6 COM with the critters. It can be more than just a dump stat.

[Sean Waters]

Wouldn't it be interesting if you could buy an ability, let us call it a 'Knack' for 1 point, which is basically a limtied skill. So, for instance, you could buy persuasion or possibly conversation as a Knack and call it panhandling. You're good at persuading people to give you money.

Or, you could buy, for example, actobatics, but just for tightrope walking/balance.

You get the idea.

NB the problem with animal handling, as I now realise, is that you have to buy it for lots of different animal types to be effective generally.

Ah well.

[Hyper-Man]

here's the power based options:

10 No Scent at all: Invisibility to Smell/Taste Group , Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Affects Body Only; -1/2), Limited Effect (Odor only; -1/4) - END=0
5 Smells Like Chicken: Shape Shift (Smell/Taste Group), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (11 Active Points); Affects Body Only (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Limited Effect (Odor only; -1/4) - END=0

They both seem a little expensive for what they do.

I agree that bonus some type of reaction bonus like Skill Levels, PRE or COM with Limitations (affects animal scent based behavior only) would be easier to use during game.

[nexus]

How about a COM bonus, with the limitation of Only for animals (-2)? 1 point gets you a +6 COM with the critters. It can be more than just a dump stat.

It can get you source of friendly warmth on a cold and (very) lonely night.

[BoneDaddy]

It can get you source of friendly warmth on a cold and (very) lonely night.
Model it as a perk and a disadvantage, then. Perk - loved by animals. Disadvantage - Loved by animals...

[Sean Waters]

There's a farmer in a field with a dog, a horse and a sheep. A man walks up tot eh farmer and asks if he can talk to the dog.

The farmer tells him the dog does not talk, but go ahead, it should be good for a laugh.

'Hello', says the man.

'Hi', says the dog. The farmer is flabbergasted.

'How does the farmer treat you?, asks the man.

'Fine,' says the dog, ' I get two meals a day and plenty of excercise.'

Next the man asks if he can speak to the horse.

The farmer tells him the horse does not talk, but go ahead, although he is a bit more wary this time.

'Hello', says the man.

'Hi', says the horse. The farmer is astonished..

'How does the farmer treat you?, asks the man.

'Fine,' says the horse, ' I get plenty of oats and I always get a rub down when we've been out for a ride.'

The man turns to the farmer and asks if he can talk to the sheep.

'That sheeps a liar!' says the farmer...

[Lord Liaden]

Wouldn't it be interesting if you could buy an ability, let us call it a 'Knack' for 1 point, which is basically a limtied skill. So, for instance, you could buy persuasion or possibly conversation as a Knack and call it panhandling. You're good at persuading people to give you money.

Or, you could buy, for example, actobatics, but just for tightrope walking/balance.

You get the idea.

Well, there are published Fifth Edition examples of Limited Skills, most notably Concealment, Self Only. I can't see a reason why a GM couldn't allow larger Limitations for more specialized uses of Skills.

[BobGreenwade]

I like 'Wildlife Harmony', but I might also suggest Animal Friend/Animal Acceptance/Calming Aura or whatever.

One point: if the person emits a scent, just not a threatening one, animals will soon learn to be threatened by someone smelling like that if he abuses it.I've noted that point already, and it's good to see that I'm not the only one who thought of it.

And I've decided, at least for now, to go with "Wildlife Harmony." (Thank you, Doc D!)
I see (and saw) what you're trying to do; it sounds interesting. Still, 13 points seems too high for the utility it's likely to offer, even in a campaign set in an appropriate area and period. I'd suggest that 3 point skill levels with a tight group of skills (Animal Handler, Survival, Riding) or just +X with Animal Handling fit the SFX fine, and give your players more practical value for their points.The 13 point cost is what I'm having trouble with. Then again, Non-Secretor costs 9 points -- and that, too, would benefit from a higher Limitation value for applying only to obscure Senses.
Yeah, this doesn't make you smell like nothing to animals, it just makes them less cautious and less likely to flee when you are scented.Right-o.
Assuming that this is biological based ability that the character is aware of, does he always go to the trouble of removing all other human (threatening) scents from his clothing and equipment?

If so it would make the ability much less useful and more like the original "Invisible Man" who couldn't make anything else invisible.It's not something he turns on and off -- or, specifically, not something he turns off. The only reason he'd need to remove threatening scents from his clothing and equipment is if his comerades' scent got on them... though that's certainly worth noting.

[Matt the Bruins]

One point: if the person emits a scent, just not a threatening one, animals will soon learn to be threatened by someone smelling like that if he abuses it.
Wouldn't this effect take quite a while to develop via natural selection if he's doing something sinister to the animals? It's not like ones hunted for food are going to have the opportunity to pass on a "don't trust this safe-smelling guy!" message to their woodland pals.

[Sean Waters]

Can't believe I haven't yet suggested transforming the animal so that it does not perceive you as threatening, or EDMing to a place where you are Dr Doolittle.




What?

[Doc Democracy]

Can't believe I haven't yet suggested transforming the animal so that it does not perceive you as threatening, or EDMing to a place where you are Dr Doolittle.




What?


What??

Much more of this EDM buffoonery and we'll save up and get Steve to create a power to EDM you to a world where you are Eliza Doolittle.....

:)


Doc

[Steve]

Question #1: How would you model, as a Talent, the absence of this odor? In what I'm writing currently I'm using Invisibility vs Smell Group, with a Limitation to that single Sense (and with other appropriate Modifiers like 0 END, Persistent, Always On), but I wonder if someone else might not have a better idea.

This sounds like the Non-Secretor ability written up on page 158 of Dark Champions.

I suppose you could do it as Invisibility vs Smell, 0 END, Persistant, Inherent, Always On with a Limitation like "Only Applies When Animals Try To Detect Predators" at -1. Real Cost of 9 points.

[prestidigitator]

A 5-point Skill Level gives you "+1 with a group of similar Skills...." Just like a 5-point CSL can be with a "related group of attacks," I wouldn't see a problem with defining a 5-point Skill Level as working for skills used in dealing with animals (not specifically "Animal Handling" and "Riding", but all skills used in this way). Then you could maybe even add a Limitation like Based on Non-Threatening Scent (-1/2, or whatever you think would be right for your game). That way it could prove unhelpful in certain cases where it wouldn't make sense (e.g. against other predators, depending on the nature of the roll).

[Sean Waters]

What??

Much more of this EDM buffoonery and we'll save up and get Steve to create a power to EDM you to a world where you are Eliza Doolittle.....

:)


Doc

Gor Blimey, Guv'nor!

[Sean Waters]

Going another way entirely...

Wilderness Harmony: 22 Active, 7 Real
Mind Control 1d6 (Animal class of minds), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Cumulative (24 points; +1), Area Of Effect (16" Radius; +2) (22 Active Points); Set Effect (Don't Panic; -1/2), Eye Contact Required (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Mandatory Effect EGO +10 (-1/4)

[OddHat]

Animals Really Like Me / The Scotsman's Promise - 6d6 Luck, only to get animals to like you (-2), 30 active points, 10 Real

Animal Magnetism - Animal Handling at STAT +1, Only in situations where non-threatening body odor may help (-1/4), 5 active, 4 real.

Deoderized - +1 Level with all Animal related skills where having a non threatening odor helps, 3 active, 3 real

[mattingly]

10 No Scent at all: Invisibility to Smell/Taste Group , Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Affects Body Only; -1/2), Limited Effect (Odor only; -1/4) - END=0
It's not that the person doesn't have a scent it all - it just doesn't seem threatening. I'd apply the -1/2 "chameleon" limitation for Invisibility.

And I don't think not smelling like a predator would affect the taste sense. I'd rule that only Smell would need to be affected.

[Hyper-Man]

It's not that the person doesn't have a scent it all - it just doesn't seem threatening. I'd apply the -1/2 "chameleon" limitation for Invisibility.

And I don't think not smelling like a predator would affect the taste sense. I'd rule that only Smell would need to be affected.

Chameleon didn't seem to fit to me.
(Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 123; Revised, page 193)


This Limitation represents a form of Invisibility which only works if the character remains motionless.

If used, it would reduce the real cost from 10 to 8 points.

I already accounted for scent only:
Limited Effect (Odor only; -1/4)

When building Invisibility or Shapeshift you have to choose a sense group to affect by default.

[mattingly]

Chameleon didn't seem to fit to me.
(Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 123; Revised, page 193)

That's a good point. But the following sentence says that it "allows him to blend seamlessly into an appropriate background," which is the effect I was going for. The character would smell like part of the natural environment, as if he belonged.

But even without that, applying the Only When Not Attacking (-1/2) limitation should apply. It's hard to seem like a non-predator while attacking.


When building Invisibility or Shapeshift you have to choose a sense group to affect by default.
Ah! Thanks. I had forgotten that. In my own campaign, I'd probably allow single-sense invisiblity to be bought straight, at half the normal cost. But that's just me.

[bigbywolfe]

Regardless of how you build it there's a disadvantage that might help bring the cost down. If you do not smell like a predator does that mean you smell more like prey? You could probably apply a negative affect with some predators (more likely to attack, or less likely to flee even if you want to scare them off), to show both sides of this power.