Gestalt of Electability

[Steve]

In honor of the election season, what sort of powers and abilities would a Gestalt of Electability (mentioned in Scott Bennie's Hero campaign book Gestalt: The Hero Within) have? Scott describes such a Gestalt as having "the superhuman ability to be so attractive to the electorate that it will be impossible for him to lose an election."

[Chris Goodwin]

Telepathy, to detect what the crowd wants to hear and give it to them

Mind Control, Single Command: Vote For Me

Oratory, 28-
Persuasion, 28-
KS: Politics 28-

(The Skill numbers are arbitrarily high. Season to taste.)

PRE 30, COM 20+

Extra levels of positive Reputation

[Sean Waters]

New Skill: Election Savvy (INT or PRE)

This is the ability to judge whether a move in the election campaign will garner a net gain in votes (when used as an INT skill) and to actually pull it off to maximise the vote gain (when used as a PRE skill).

So, for instance, Brian O'Barney wants to work out if taking an election gamble will pay off - his grandmother is ill and he wants to know how the electorate will judge him if he takes time off to visit her (a potential vote gain) against the problem of missing vital days on the election trail (a potential vote loss), so he makes a skill roll based on INT.

Having decided to go ahead, he makes another skill roll based on PRE, rolls well and pulls it off with panache - the electorate appreciates a candidate who still has time for family.

What?

[Alibear]

How do you come up with this stuff, Sean?

[Sean Waters]

How do you come up with this stuff, Sean?

I sit down to do some proper work, and suddenly....

[nexus]

The brute force approach

Mind Control: 10D6, One command: Vote for me. Enough Megascale AE to cover the country, IPE. Extra Time: Several weeks, Must Campaign actively. Mandatory effect: Must reach the effect level to make the target think their actions were there own idea.

That should be enough to get most normals to vote for him. (Gestalt Earth humans have low Ego scores in general) and he doesn't have to convince everyone just enough to get a majority vote.

[Sean Waters]

Co-Opt Opposition Support
Mental transform : Republican into Democrat, 6d6 major, BOECV, Only works on Colin Powell (no limitation value because it only NEEDS to work on Colin Powell).

Co-Opt Opposition Support II
Mental transform : Republican into Democrat, 6d6 major, BOECV, Only works on Hillary Clinton* (no limitation value because it only NEEDS to work on Hillary Clinton).



*Yes, I know.

[Sean Waters]

Summon Opposition's Running Mate
Summons a Sarah Palin who becomes the running mate for the opposition candidate.

Engender Voter Confusion
Megascale low power telepathy, transmit only, single message "Why is someone who makes oven ready fries (http://www.mccain.com/products/Pages/default.aspx)running for president?"

[Derek Hiemforth]

Mind Control: 10D6, One command: Vote for me. Enough Megascale AE to cover the country, IPE. Extra Time: Several weeks, Must Campaign actively. Mandatory effect: Must reach the effect level to make the target think their actions were there own idea.That's frighteningly inexpensive. :eek:

If this was being used in the real world (well, real except for this power), I don't even think it would need IPE. Anyone who could see the effect with Mental Awareness would be dismissed as a crank. "Suuuure there's a mind control beam affecting everyone. Go put your tin foil hat back on, grandpa." :D

[nexus]

That's frighteningly inexpensive. :eek:


Yeah but the limitation would help bring it down to a low roar especially the Extra Time. You could probably get with dropping a couple of dice in a pinch, particularly in the US since technically you don't need a majority vote just the major electoral states for a presidential election (which is where my mind first went). If you want his powers to be more local, you could get less Megascale and possibly limited it to people that seem and hear him speak in some fashion and add skill roll of some sort.

That's an interesting point about IPE. Mental powers could be pretty nasty in an overall "normal" world.

[Kenn]

Contact: the political machine of Chicago.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Yeah but the limitation would help bring it down to a low roar especially the Extra Time. You could probably get with dropping a couple of dice in a pinch.No, no... I said it was INexpensive, even as built. It's dirt cheap! Nasty... :)

[Steve]

I suppose another way to build it would be as some kind of limited Usable By Others construction. The source of the power is the Gestalt of Electability, and he has minions (campaign volunteers?) who are able to use the same power he has to change the minds of others.

Or maybe it would just be more effective to buy a hundred million Loyal Followers, enough to swing an election in each state in the Gestalts favor? :eek:

[Utech]

A couple more things that might help...

Favors (vote counters in various key locations; Supreme Court members; etc)
Computer Programming (to hack voting machines without paper trail)

[Hugh Neilson]

We can make it cheaper...


Mind Control: 10D6, One command: Vote for me. Enough Megascale AE to cover the country, IPE. Extra Time: Several weeks, Must Campaign actively. Mandatory effect: Must reach the effect level to make the target think their actions were there own idea.

That should be enough to get most normals to vote for him. (Gestalt Earth humans have low Ego scores in general) and he doesn't have to convince everyone just enough to get a majority vote.

Mind Control: 1/2D6, Telepathic Command (+1/4), Cumulative (+1/2), 5 doublings of max effect (192 max; +1 1/2), Enough Megascale AE to cover the country, IPE (as accumulating and overall; +1/2),

One command: Vote for me; Mandatory effect: Must reach the effect level to make the target think their actions were there own idea and impose -20 to Breakout Roll, Extra Time: One Day, Must Campaign actively.

So every day of campaigning, he rolls 1d3. He needs Ego + [0 to 30 depending on each target's political slant], plus 20 to make it their own idea, plus 100 for the breakout penalty. That's 150 + Ego for those violently opposed. He needs 80 days of active campaigning for a 10 EGO target, only 70 days if they wouldn't mind voting for him.

[pinecone]

I'd add sticky so they can "Tell all your friends!"...

[Sean Waters]

Megascale mental illusions to make democrats think that public toilets are voting booths and the little slips of paper in there are for voting on?



:rofl:...and you could add sticky...

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd add sticky so they can "Tell all your friends!"...

Definitely added to my build.

[Sean Waters]

If I didn't know better I'd think you lot were taking this seriously...:nonp:

[nexus]

No, no... I said it was INexpensive, even as built. It's dirt cheap! Nasty... :)

oh... :o

[Emily Latilla]
Never mind...
[/Emily Latilla]

[SSgt Baloo]

:rofl:...and you could add sticky...

Yes, but considering the locale wouldn't that be a given?

I'd rep you, but I'm out.

[Vestnik]

This is easy.

Multiform into 300-point National Leader, Extra Time (period of election cycle), OIF (Electorate of Opportunity). The form's points are spent mostly on contacts and followers, plus one huge country-sized base.

EDIT: The country is bought as a base (presidential residence -- White House, 10 Downing Street, whatever) with really big grounds (add fence if needed). Country inhabitants are bought as followers.

[SteveZilla]

In honor of the election season, what sort of powers and abilities would a Gestalt of Electability (mentioned in Scott Bennie's Hero campaign book Gestalt: The Hero Within) have? Scott describes such a Gestalt as having "the superhuman ability to be so attractive to the electorate that it will be impossible for him to lose an election."

Continuous, Indirect, AoE Major Transformation (Mental - Citizen into Citizen who wants to vote for me), IPE(Fully Invisible)

The "problem" with Mind Control is that it takes IPE to hide it from other mentalists, *and* the +20 "Target will remember actions and thik they were natural", and potentially +10 "Order Contradicts target's Psychological Limitations", and potentially must achieve EGO+30 as it's base to overcome "Violently Opposed".

And then there's the matter of spending END so it doesn't weaken. I asked Steve Long about Zero END on Mind Control and his response (IIRC) was that to have Mind Control cost no end to *both* instigate, and to maintain the effect, one would have to buy Zero END twice for the power.

And with all of that, there is a cap on the amount of effect any Mind Control build can have. Not so with Transform which can keep adding, and adding, and adding... :eg:

[Hugh Neilson]

Continuous, Indirect, AoE Major Transformation (Mental - Citizen into Citizen who wants to vote for me), IPE(Fully Invisible)

And it heals - which explains why, three months later, no one you talk to voted for the winner!


The "problem" with Mind Control is that it takes IPE to hide it from other mentalists

+1/4, doubled to make it also apply while building [see below] is +1/2


, *and* the +20 "Target will remember actions and thik they were natural", and potentially +10 "Order Contradicts target's Psychological Limitations", and potentially must achieve EGO+30 as it's base to overcome "Violently Opposed".

Ego +60, +120 for -24 Breakout Roll, +12 EGO = 192. What percentage of the electorate have Ego above 12?


And then there's the matter of spending END so it doesn't weaken. I asked Steve Long about Zero END on Mind Control and his response (IIRC) was that to have Mind Control cost no end to *both* instigate, and to maintain the effect, one would have to buy Zero END twice for the power.

+1 advantage


And with all of that, there is a cap on the amount of effect any Mind Control build can have. Not so with Transform which can keep adding, and adding, and adding... :eg:

1/2d6 Mind Control 0 END to use and maintain (+1), IPE (+1/2 see above), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings (+1 1/2; 192 max), Telepathic Command (+1/4), AoE 1 hex(+1/2), Megascale (+2; 1 hex = 10 million km) AP 22; one command - vote for me (-1/2); no range (-1/2), Extra Time (1 minute? 5 minutes? -1) cost 7.

Let's say every 5 minutes - 12 times per hour, 8 hours per day. It takes one day to get 96 points of effect, and I only need two days for full control. The campaign gives me lots more time to reinforce it to minimize the impact of any breakout rolls. I don't need to control everyone - just enough to win the election.

And my radius is enough that people EVERYWHERE want to move here so they can vote for me!

[SteveZilla]

And it heals - which explains why, three months later, no one you talk to voted for the winner!

That depends upon whether or not it heals gradually, or is an "all-or-nothing" method of reversing the Transform. But if you're adding just two BODY of Transfor Effect per week, you'll swamp the healing that most normals have. What part of the Electorate is going to have a REC more than 8? If it's Zero END, Persistent, then: What healing? :eg:


+1/4, doubled to make it also apply while building [see below] is +1/2

It is my understanding that tor a Mental Attack to be undetectable by other Mentalists takes:

+1/2 (Base IPE), x2 to hide the effects of the use of the power = +1.


Ego +60, +120 for -24 Breakout Roll, +12 EGO = 192. What percentage of the electorate have Ego above 12?

This is an assumption. Very likely a safe one, but still an assumption. ;) But don't forget the Classes of Minds! And there is no Breakout Roll for Tranformation Attack. :eg:


+1 advantage

Correct. :)


1/2d6 Mind Control 0 END to use and maintain (+1), IPE (+1/2 see above), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings (+1 1/2; 192 max), Telepathic Command (+1/4), AoE 1 hex(+1/2), Megascale (+2; 1 hex = 10 million km) AP 22; one command - vote for me (-1/2); no range (-1/2), Extra Time (1 minute? 5 minutes? -1) cost 7.

Going by the Less Than Full Dice chart on 5ER, p 114, a half die of Mind Control (5 pts per d6) costs 3 pts. (2 pts for 1 pip).

Giving us:

1/2d6 Mind Control (3 base points) - Zero END(Start; +1/2), Zero END(Maintain; +1/2), IPE(+1), Cumulative(3 pts max; +1/2), Increased Cumulative Points(x64 points = 196 Max; +1 1/2), Telepathic Command(+1/4), AoE(1 Hex; +1/2), Mega-Area(1 hex = 10 Million km; +2) (3 * 7.75 = 23 Active Points); Set Effect(Single Command - Vote For Me!; -1/2); No Range(-1/2), Extra Time(1 Minute; -1 1/2). Real Cost = 7.

Please note that there is a potential problem with using Cumulative -- the relavent defense is applied to each of the rolls. So it would only take 3 pts of Mental Defense to completely stop this power. ;)

The problem with Extra Time on an Attack Power is that it locks up the character's actions, with No Time actions (like giving a speech ;)) being the only thing they can do without interrupting the attack. While choosing the "Onset Time" (like for Poisons) option would seem to get around this problem, it is a GM's Option to allow it.


Let's say every 5 minutes - 12 times per hour, 8 hours per day. It takes one day to get 96 points of effect, and I only need two days for full control. The campaign gives me lots more time to reinforce it to minimize the impact of any breakout rolls. I don't need to control everyone - just enough to win the election.

Going by the Less Than Full Dice chart on 5ER, p 114, Minor Transformation (10 pts per d6) would cost 5 pts for a half-die (or 3 pts for 1 pip). Giving us:

1 pip Minor Transformation (People into People Who Vote For Me, Heals Back Normally; 3 base points), Zero END(+1/2), Armor Piercing(+1/2), Penetrating(+1/2), IPE(+2), AoE(1 Hex; +1/2), Mega-Area(1 hex = 10 Million km; +2) (3 * 7 = 21 Active Points); No Range(-1/2), Extra Time(1 Minute; -1 1/2). Real Cost = 7.



And my radius is enough that people EVERYWHERE want to move here so they can vote for me!

Ditto! :D And interestingly, they cost the same Real Points. ;)

[Hugh Neilson]

It is my understanding that tor a Mental Attack to be undetectable by other Mentalists takes:

+1/2 (Base IPE), x2 to hide the effects of the use of the power = +1.

My logic is based on +1/4 for invisibility to an uncommon sense group, but call it +1/2 if you want. No impact on cost anyway.


This is an assumption. Very likely a safe one, but still an assumption. ;) But don't forget the Classes of Minds! And there is no Breakout Roll for Tranformation Attack. :eg:

No. Forget Classes of Mind. But that's another thread. Here, the answer is that only humans vote anyway (and if there are enough aliens to prevent a majority, that's a pretty odd game).


Going by the Less Than Full Dice chart on 5ER, p 114, a half die of Mind Control (5 pts per d6) costs 3 pts. (2 pts for 1 pip).

Giving us:

1/2d6 Mind Control (3 base points) - Zero END(Start; +1/2), Zero END(Maintain; +1/2), IPE(+1), Cumulative(3 pts max; +1/2), Increased Cumulative Points(x64 points = 196 Max; +1 1/2), Telepathic Command(+1/4), AoE(1 Hex; +1/2), Mega-Area(1 hex = 10 Million km; +2) (3 * 7.75 = 23 Active Points); Set Effect(Single Command - Vote For Me!; -1/2); No Range(-1/2), Extra Time(1 Minute; -1 1/2). Real Cost = 7.

I was using that 3. The added IPE advantage has no impact, so why even bother looking it up.


Please note that there is a potential problem with using Cumulative -- the relavent defense is applied to each of the rolls. So it would only take 3 pts of Mental Defense to completely stop this power. ;)

The electorate doesn't have Mental Defense. Toss on some Penetrating and half his attacks get one point through. He has lots of time, and another point won't wreck him.


The problem with Extra Time on an Attack Power is that it locks up the character's actions, with No Time actions (like giving a speech ;)) being the only thing they can do without interrupting the attack. While choosing the "Onset Time" (like for Poisons) option would seem to get around this problem, it is a GM's Option to allow it.

What else will he be doing? Really, he should have Incantations and, maybe, Gestures to reflect his speechmaking - that's what we do in political campaigns, and a typical speech runs 20 minutes plus.


Going by the Less Than Full Dice chart on 5ER, p 114, Minor Transformation (10 pts per d6) would cost 5 pts for a half-die (or 3 pts for 1 pip). Giving us:

Assuming we agree it's minor, of course. If it's not, your price goes up a bit. At most it's Major, and outside of Political Hero, Minor seems right.


1 pip Minor Transformation (People into People Who Vote For Me, Heals Back Normally; 3 base points), Zero END(+1/2), Armor Piercing(+1/2), Penetrating(+1/2), IPE(+2), AoE(1 Hex; +1/2), Mega-Area(1 hex = 10 Million km; +2) (3 * 7 = 21 Active Points); No Range(-1/2), Extra Time(1 Minute; -1 1/2). Real Cost = 7.

Ditto! :D And interestingly, they cost the same Real Points. ;)

[Sean Waters]

Looks like all you needed was 'Shapeshift, single form (Barack Obama)' and about 15 points in wealth...or possibly enough TK to pull 130 million to the voting booths :)

[SteveZilla]

My logic is based on +1/4 for invisibility to an uncommon sense group

I couldn't find that rule in 5ER. Is it a house rule?


No. Forget Classes of Mind. But that's another thread. Here, the answer is that only humans vote anyway (and if there are enough aliens to prevent a majority, that's a pretty odd game).

Perhaps the game is a hybrid clone of American Gods and Alien Nation? ;)


I was using that 3. The added IPE advantage has no impact, so why even bother looking it up.

I knew you were using the 3, I was quoting it for the benefit of the general audience. :) I looked up the IPE because I wanted to try and build the power accurately.


The electorate doesn't have Mental Defense. Toss on some Penetrating and half his attacks get one point through. He has lots of time, and another point won't wreck him.

True enough. :)


What else will he be doing? Really, he should have Incantations and, maybe, Gestures to reflect his speechmaking - that's what we do in political campaigns, and a typical speech runs 20 minutes plus.

Gestures & Incantaitons would be appropriate, though it would mean he couldn't do it while sitting in the campaign bus/airplane while in transit (at least not without making those around him wonder what the heck he was doing).


Assuming we agree it's minor, of course. If it's not, your price goes up a bit. At most it's Major, and outside of Political Hero, Minor seems right.

I came to the same conclusion -- and was also working from the example power "Psionic Surgery" (5ER, p238), which uses Minor.

[SteveZilla]

Looks like all you needed was 'Shapeshift, single form (Barack Obama)' and about 15 points in wealth...or possibly enough TK to pull 130 million to the voting booths :)

"You can drag the apathetic to the voting booth, but you can't make them pull the lever." ;)

How about:
1 Follower (Loyal Voting Minion, 5 pts)
135 134,217,727 more 5 pt Followers.

Or:
28 One 141 pt Follower w/ 136 Duplication (134,217,727 five-point Dupes)

[Hugh Neilson]

I couldn't find that rule in 5ER. Is it a house rule?

Looking at the rules, there has been a change to specifically make Mental Sense Group a +1/2 advantage, so he needs to pay a small amount more for that extra invisibility.

I don't use IPE very often, and I suspect I'm coming at it from the 4e rules.

[Lucius]

Perk: Head of State.

Possibly a few more points to reflect that you can never lose any election for which you qualify: i.e. head of any particular state you choose, as long as you go through the motions of running for office and meet the qualifications (i.e. if you serve two terms in the US you can't run again but you could move to Australia, get citizenship, and run for Prime Minister - unless Australia has a "natural born citizen" clause like the US does.)

Or run for senate, or dogcatcher if you want - having already paid max points, plus points for flexibility (if you want to get really harsh about it, maybe make the character pay triple) you should be able to get any lesser office at will.

Lucius Alexander

Shaving the palindromedary with Occam's Razor