True Jack Of All Trades

[Harrkonen]

In a campaign that is soon to be started we play as rather low level characters (Heroic level 75/75) I'm looking to make the most of my points and wanted to get a Jack of all trades type perk or talent that allows me to make skill rolls at the 8 or less base roll. The only problem is that both myself and the GM are unsure of the best way to go about this. Any suggestions?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Depends on how much you're willing to spend. You've got three choices, really:

VPP: Jack of All Trades, 5 Pool Points, etc. etc., No Skill Roll (+1), No Time (+1); Professional Background Skills Only (-1), 8- Roll Only (-2). Makes it what, 6 points? Add in a GM requirement that you need to have the Skill Modifier as well, and you have a 9-point power -- that had best be your shtick. I don't think I'd do that for only an 8- roll.

Or you go with 'Universal Worker', which does for a PS what Universal Translator does for languages -- 'full' skill on an INT roll. That's 20 points, which is a more serious investment -- but again, it'd best be your shtick. It also gives you the professions at your INT roll, which is a bit more than you might want.

Your third choice is something along the lines of 'Cramming, 1 Phase Study (+1) (10 Active Points); PS Only (-1/2): 7 Points.' You get an advantage over other crammers that you can just go ahead and do it after looking at the situation hard for a moment, but, like all other crammers, you basically suck at it.

[Harrkonen]

We've been thinking along those options and so far the VPP thing at the moment. (Comes out to a 5 point total.) The main trick is I'm just trying to get away from the Trained/Untrained issues and bypass them. The build so far I have will make the lowest roll that is based along a characteristic a 11- and with a +2 Overall I can make non-characteristic based skills at least a 10-
It's such a simple idea but so tricky to make correctly.

[Basil]

Depends on how much you're willing to spend. You've got three choices, really:

VPP: Jack of All Trades, 5 Pool Points, etc. etc., No Skill Roll (+1), No Time (+1); Professional Background Skills Only (-1), 8- Roll Only (-2). Makes it what, 6 points? Add in a GM requirement that you need to have the Skill Modifier as well, and you have a 9-point power -- that had best be your shtick. I don't think I'd do that for only an 8- roll.
Actually, he'd only need 2 Pool Points (enough for one Familiarity at a time).


Or you go with 'Universal Worker', which does for a PS what Universal Translator does for languages -- 'full' skill on an INT roll. That's 20 points, which is a more serious investment -- but again, it'd best be your shtick. It also gives you the professions at your INT roll, which is a bit more than you might want.
Where's "Universal Worker" from?

[Basil]

We've been thinking along those options and so far the VPP thing at the moment. (Comes out to a 5 point total.) The main trick is I'm just trying to get away from the Trained/Untrained issues and bypass them. The build so far I have will make the lowest roll that is based along a characteristic a 11- and with a +2 Overall I can make non-characteristic based skills at least a 10-
It's such a simple idea but so tricky to make correctly.

Um, you can't improve a (8-) Familiarity's roll.


BTW, The Ultimate Skill already has something called "True Jack Of All Trades". Page 49. 20 points, give 11- roll on all Profession Skills. ;)

[Harrkonen]

Um, you can't improve a (8-) Familiarity's roll.


BTW, The Ultimate Skill already has something called "True Jack Of All Trades". Page 49. 20 points, give 11- roll on all Profession Skills. ;)

Exactly i'm trying to work out a way to work around the 8- Familiarity roll. I know it may be in vain but dangit I'm going to try

[prestidigitator]

Aid? Maybe coupled with the VPP?

[JmOz]

12 PS: All known proffesions 21-

Expect -10 modifiers for all rolls

gets you an 11- roll in any skill...

[JmOz]

to expand, you and your GM need to talk about how useful the ability is going to be, the price should run apropriatly. THe above is one example, another way of doing it would be to just bank a half dozen points or so and allow them to be spent in game to buy the familiarity as needed, just always keep a few points to the side and keep a list of what you have spent them on...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

BTW, The Ultimate Skill already has something called "True Jack Of All Trades". Page 49. 20 points, give 11- roll on all Profession Skills. ;)

This is what I meant. The 11- Roll is, I think, an INT roll, just as the UT roll is. But this is what I meant, basically -- Universal (Insert Skill Modifier here).

[Sean Waters]

Without wishing to be too much of a killjoy, skills in Heroic level games are there at least in part to help define the role of PCs - no one will have enough points to be good at everything, so everyone needs to pool their skills to get the job done.

A Jack o' Trades is fine for a solo campaign, but rapidly beceomes the only character you need in group work. If you allow access to every skill through a VPP for 5 points for a base 11- roll it is easy enough to buy a few overall skill leves (you'll have the points over) and get a really decent skill at everything, including combat.

I'm thinking 'seething resentment'. Can be done and should be done are not the same thing.

Put it this way: if being good at a wide range of skills is the character's schtick then I'd expect them to spend as much on that as any other character would on their schtick: 30 to 60 points, perhaps, depending on campaign points. That allows you to buy 10-20 skills 'straight' - more if you buy the Jock of Trades skill modifier (or other skill modifiers) and you can cover an enormous range of situations with that many skills.

[Alibear]

Having a wide range of, or indeed all, professional skills at 11 or less is not going to create seething resentment from anybody in my experience. Especially if you spent 20 points getting it.

[Sean Waters]

Oh I agree, but technically you could buy it with 5 points if you allow skill VPPs, which might. OTOH I get the impressiont hat friend Harrkonen was not necessarily just talking about PSs. I could well be wrong though.

[Alibear]

I see where you're coming from now. I'd be more pissed off with the constant tried and failed rolls slowing the game tbh. The constant "Can I check my ...." would do my nut in.

[CourtFool]

Just to throw another optional build into the mix, you could use Luck if the GM allowed some of the options. You could just happen to know one piece of information needed or you could just happen to have had to do this very same task before.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Without wishing to be too much of a killjoy, skills in Heroic level games are there at least in part to help define the role of PCs - no one will have enough points to be good at everything, so everyone needs to pool their skills to get the job done.

Which is my point about spending a LOT of character points on this, and being The Jack Of All Trades being the shtick.


A Jack o' Trades is fine for a solo campaign, but rapidly beceomes the only character you need in group work. If you allow access to every skill through a VPP for 5 points for a base 11- roll it is easy enough to buy a few overall skill leves (you'll have the points over) and get a really decent skill at everything, including combat.

Which, if you'd read my suggestion, is why the limitation 'Only Professional Skills' is there. Any GM who allows an unrestricted Skill VPP deserves exactly what he gets. Any player who asks for an unrestricted Skill VPP deserves exactly what he gets, too. I did spend 22 points for a character to have a Background Skills VPP, with INT Roll Only as one modifier, and 'Must have Skill Modifier to have skill' for another -- so he couldn't have PSs without purchasing Jack of All Trades separately. The character has, in fact, spent 100 points on 'bloody smart!!' stuff (speed reading, faster lightning calculator, universal translator, eidetic memory, high INT) as WELL as damn near every INT skill. This helps to counterbalance the fact that pretty much everyone else has either an extremely tight focus on their KSs, or else don't have anything. And yes, I AM going to limit my uses to stuff he'd realistically have been able to a) learn, b) read, and/or c) physically be able to do.

Yes, he's a squirrel. He's also a super-rich hypergenius megalomaniac, whose final goals I have just figured out. And the Lord Captain Thia Halmades juuuust might be willing to be a Trusted Lieutenant...

[jtelson]

3pts Jack of all Trades
25pts 25 11 or Less Prof Skills (Selected at Creation)
7pts 7 11 or Less Prof Skills (Selected as Needed w/ GM permission, Set once Selected)
10pts +2 w. Prof Skills
Always save a few CPs to pay for the skills you "have" on the fly

Just under 1/3 of your starting points spent on your character's focus.

This sort of character really needs the consent of the GM and the other players.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

The GM? Yes. Other players? ... I suppose. I'd say that 'consent' would be acquired by saying to them, 'My character is a jack-of-all-trades.' They'll likely nod, shrug, and go on with their lives.

[jtelson]

If you're playing in a setting where professional skills are relevant, to introduce a character who can suddenly operate equally with the rest of the group across the board and beyond would, I believe, be generally harmful to most groups' dynamics; Particularly if such an addition was done without discussion or consideration and ultimately agreement. This is true of any ability set, Super Scientist, Knowlege Guy, Combatatron 4000, whatever.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

PSs are always relevant, and are almost always overlooked except for the free one -- and sometimes even then. I think something that is being misunderstood is that PS: Physician does not, and will never, replace Paramedics in the saving of a life. If a professional skill has another, game-significant skill, the PS is 'how to do the rest of the job -- but not the really important stuff'. I would, at best, give the character a -6 on the other skill, like Paramedics.

[jtelson]

PSs are always relevant, and are almost always overlooked except for the free one -- and sometimes even then.
This statement feels a bit schizophrenic and is something that I think must vary dramatically from group to group. Professional Skills are pretty common and often used in the groups to which I have belonged.


I think something that is being misunderstood is that PS: Physician does not, and will never, replace Paramedics in the saving of a life. If a professional skill has another, game-significant skill, the PS is 'how to do the rest of the job -- but not the really important stuff'. I would, at best, give the character a -6 on the other skill, like Paramedics.
What happens more than 5 minutes after combat might also be considered 'really important stuff' so I would tend to describe it like this.

Paramedics has very specific and focused in game uses revolving around providing immediate emergency care. Any and all other long term care such as but not limited to surgery, diagnosis, and rehabilitation requires PS: Physician. For any professional skill, depending on the setting, the GM may require more specificity or require knowledge/science skills to indicate areas of expertise.

[Wanderer]

This statement feels a bit schizophrenic and is something that I think must vary dramatically from group to group. Professional Skills are pretty common and often used in the groups to which I have belonged.


What happens more than 5 minutes after combat might also be considered 'really important stuff' so I would tend to describe it like this.

Paramedics has very specific and focused in game uses revolving around providing immediate emergency care. Any and all other long term care such as but not limited to surgery, diagnosis, and rehabilitation requires PS: Physician. For any professional skill, depending on the setting, the GM may require more specificity or require knowledge/science skills to indicate areas of expertise.

Well, about some professionals' job skills in scientific fields, it must be remembered that SS are described as a combination of KS and PS, they give you both the theoretical knowledge base and the practical ability to use it in the field or the laboratory. In other words, buying PS: Physician or PS: Chemist is a redundant waste of points, when SS: Medicine or SS: Chemistry gives you the practical expertise as well. As far as I'm concerned, SS: Medicine (or equivalents) already tell a physician character everything he needs to know about long-term care.

[jtelson]

Well, about some professionals' job skills in scientific fields, it must be remembered that SS are described as a combination of KS and PS, they give you both the theoretical knowledge base and the practical ability to use it in the field or the laboratory. In other words, buying PS: Physician or PS: Chemist is a redundant waste of points, when SS: Medicine or SS: Chemistry gives you the practical expertise as well. As far as I'm concerned, SS: Medicine (or equivalents) already tell a physician character everything he needs to know about long-term care.

Per the description of Paramedics you are correct but the example I was responding to used Paramedics to PS: Physician and the analogy/relationship seemed more important than the specifics particularly since it would work just as well for a discussion about a Jack of All Sciences character.