Various explosive gadgets...am I doing this right?

[bigbywolfe]

I looked around the site a bit for a build for a "flash bomb" or "consussion grenade" but didn't find anything. Can anyone tell me if this build looks right? I'll probably also post some of the other gadgets or powers in this thread for review as soon as I have them written up.

Concussion Grenade (Flash Bomb): (Total: 67 Active Cost, 18 Real Cost) Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 4d6, Explosion (+1/2) (37 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) <b>plus</b> Energy Blast 4d6, STUN Only (+0), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); 3 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

I set the charges at three because that's how many the character will carry at once. Is there anything I need to add or change to represent the fact that the character builds these devices himself? I mean, he can always go home and get more, but will have to build more eventually, which is why I

Thanks in advance.

[Hyper-Man]

I might change the Flash portion to AOE Radius (but still keep the Energy Blast as Explosion).

[bigbywolfe]

I don't disagree, but I'm wondering why?

I guess my thought was that the Flash (at least to the Hearing group) IRL comes from being concussed by the EB, which is why I put them both as Explosion. Just wondering about your reasoning...

Also, this is for a supers game (250/150) and may be under-powered, but I didn't want to totally obliterate normals either. Any suggestions.

Thanks

[Hyper-Man]

It just seems to me that the sight (and to a lesser degree hearing) portion of the grenade seems like it would have a greater range than the normal damage Explosion. Thinking about it some more I might increase the fade increments to -1DC per 2 or 3 inches instead (same cost as Radius with a more logical fade rate).

[bigbywolfe]

You're right, I think I like it that way better:

Concussion Grenade (Flash Bomb): (Total: 80 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (50 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) <b>plus</b> Energy Blast 4d6, STUN Only (+0), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); 3 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 1/4), OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

[bigbywolfe]

How about this build for a hand thrown "electric stun dart"?

Electric Stun Dart: (Total: 95 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Drain DEX 4d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4) (60 Active Points); 2 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 1/2), OAF (-1), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4) (Real Cost: 16) <b>plus</b> Energy Blast 7d6 (35 Active Points); 2 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 1/2), OAF (-1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 9)

Once more, this is for a Champions game. Do these seem underpowered? Moderate? I don't have a lot of experience with Supers.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Flash-bombs and the stuff are rarely 'underpowered', because your common HERO player doesn't knee-jerk react and purchase 5 points in every FlashDef 'just because'. The EB portion might be 'weak', but that's what they are...

[bigbywolfe]

Thanks for the tip

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Just as a tip, you might also want to remember that this sort of thing is also usually carried in a weapons/gear/gadget MPow or VPP -- so the 'actual cost' of the thing is going to be a lot lower. One of my archer's trick arrows (weapons MPow) is a flashbang ...

13) Flash-Bang Arrow: (Total: 52 Active Cost, 18 Real Cost) Sight, Hearing and Smell/Taste Groups Flash 2 1/2d6, Explosion (-1 DC/2"; +3/4) (35 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (Flatspace Tech Bracers; -1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Incantations ("FlashBang"; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 12) plus Energy Blast 2d6, Explosion (-1 DC/2"; +3/4) (17 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (Flatspace Tech Bracers; -1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6): 2 Real Cost in MPow.

[JmOz]

a real nice trick is to attach the does kb (and maybe x2 KB) to the flash instead of the EB

[Killer Shrike]

There's lots of ways to build grenades and similar effects. I wouldnt go so far as to say there is a single "right" way...but here are a couple characters I've made with various grenade like effects:

Hammer (http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/WriteUps/Characters/Hammer.HTML) -- under Equipment

Ing (http://www.killershrike.com/Violators/Ing.HTML) -- see devices multipower

Here are some Grenade Launchers (http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/Effects/MetaCyberEffects.aspx?EffectTypeId=22&EffectCategoryId=97&EffectNameContains=Launcher) from MetaCyber

I could dig up a lot of individual power builds here and there, but basically for thrown grenades I usually go w/ Range Based On Strength and Can Be Missile Deflected where appropriate. Focus and Charges are usually involved as well. For launchers I often use Indirect. But really, whatever makes sense for the effect you are going for works.

[bigbywolfe]

Would a demolition charge be considered ED or PD? My first thought was ED SFX Fire, but the more I think about it, that’s really more of an incendiary device, whereas a demo charge just blows up and takes whatever’s in it’s immediate vicinity with it. In other words, someone in a fire proof suit could still get blown sky high, or at least knocked around a bit. On the other hand, making it PD just doesn’t sit right with me. Any thoughts?

Also, is it allowable to have the effect of Explosion fade faster, like 10 or 15 points per Hex instead of five? I ask mainly because HD doesn't seem to have that as an option, and I'm not sure how to price it, (or effectively use it with HD) on my own.

Also, as long as I'm on explosives here, what's the best way to represent a timer on a bomb, that can be set to any duration?

[Vulcan]

For the (more or less) official build for such things, look in the Dark Champions book.

Although the suggestions here are pretty good too! :D

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Most demolitions would probably be considered concussion; whether you want to define that as ED or PD is really a GM decision, because arguments can be convincingly made for both. (Yes, I know I split that infinitive. Sue me.) A 'fireproof' suit should provide defenses 'Only vs. Fire' anyhow, or at least a low level of energy defense with a high level of fire-specific ED. Otherwise, since it's the concussive force (i.e. it's the 'air' that's hitting you) that we're concerned with, well -- look at stories of what sorts of armor have saved people from blasts. Probably not reflective coating.

Time Delay (+1/4) is what you're looking for for the timer thing.

Bomb w/ Timer: Energy Blast 12d6 (vs. PD), Explosion (Reduced Fall-Off, -3d6/1"; +1/4), Time Delay (+1/4) (90 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (-1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4): Real Cost 16.

This represents a pretty serious comic-book bomb (lots of bang, not TOO much killing damage) that takes a few seconds of concentration to place and set the timer on. 'Explosion' is +1/2; reducing the fall-off seemed to reduce that by -1/4. You might, on the other hand, go with 2" Radius AoE (+3/4) instead; depends on the GM.

[Sean Waters]

This works for any sort of explosive device - just change the destination dimension.

Flashbang grenade:
Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension - the STUN DIMENSION where you become stunned, deafened and a bit bashed up, just like you've been caught in an explosion), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (60 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4)

The AoE EDM works as an instant gate 'dipping' you in the STUN dimension then returning you instantly.






What?

[prestidigitator]

As a minor side note, you can probably apply Linked if you are using both an EB and a Flash like in the first example. I doubt anyone would REALLY think the EB Charges could be used separately from the Flash Charges given the name and description of the power, but you might as well throw in the Limitation to be correct and possibly save a couple points.