Campaign Building

[PerennialRook]

How do I/you build a campaign?

-Preston

[Korvar]

Now there's a question :)

There's a lot of ways... I suppose it's like "how do you host a party", only what you're really asking is, "how do I host a series of parties"? So these are just my ideas. I've only really run a couple of campaigns, and only one (a Fantasy Hero Dark Sun game) lasted any length of time.

You'll need a setting. You'll either have a pre-made setting (like I used TSR's Dark Sun setting), or you'll have to make one yourself.

You'll need a genre - High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, Modern-day-with-magic, whatever. Generally, if you're using a pre-made setting the Genre will come as part of that package. If you're making your own, you get to choose. So decide what kind of games you want to run, what kind of movies/books/comics/stories you want to emulate. Then you'll be able to build the setting around that genre.

Genre and setting are fairly deeply intertwined - the setting will dictate the genre and vice versa. If you want a High Fantasy setting, the odds are there'll be a lot of magic about, which tells you something about the setting. On the other hand, if the setting is low in magic, that affects what genres you can attach to it.

There are meta/sub genres too - Comedy, Horror, Epic, etc. They can generally be put on any setting and genre, but not all! Difficult to run Comedy in a dangerous desert world where you can't be sure where your next mouthful of water is coming from.

Adventures and characters. You should have at least some idea of the adventures you want to run, and that can effect what characters are suitable. And vice versa.

Then all you need to do is actually decide how much detail you want to have on paper before you run...

[RadeFox]

I follow two printed guides for the most part. Campaigns and Catacombs book for AD&D 2nd, and the Aria worldboook. using these as guidelines for what needs to be at least thought of, if not flushed out some, gives me a pretty solid base on which to plan and build a both believable and manageable world.

[lensman]

Originally posted by PerennialRook
How do I/you build a campaign?

Start with a location and spend some time in it before moving out into the wide world.

A City-State or Port city is ideal. A county, Duchy or Principality can also work.

Stress the local flavor / culture. Steep the characters in "home" waters so they have a sense of society and its workings. A GM can introduce the political arena, Theological / Magical acceptence, racial interaction.
Stories, myths and legands by bards or distant travellers.

I like to have a lot of answers as to how magic, divine power, etc work but then a GM has to obscure all of that in mystery for the players so the world just does not look like a 21 st century atlas or encyclopedia.
Make up a lot of stuff that is half truth and have it passed off as truth by people who earnestly belief it to be true.

Give players detailed information for every KS they have. Update it often as they encounter it.
ie. KS: Geo-politiics, the Duchy of Erthe-Allidaine
write down names of families, their busibness, major guilds, landed and unlanded nobility, rumored trysts, fueds or vendaettas, contested borders, military units with billets and Units commanders, Colleges or institutions.
Write these down and this way players need not endlessly ask and regurgitate your words and they have a sense of the game tapestry.

For plots I usually draw a map of motivations for the forces at work. The particulars can flow from the broader stroke of envy, honor, lust, cruelty, greed, vice, passion, altruism etc.

But let us not forget this is Hero, so pay attention to the meta game and build mechanics for effects you want to be in the game but the players can access without paying points.
i.e. A game where there are no atheists. Major shrines exist for pilgramages and for those who complete a pilgramige and complete tests can have a blessing bestowed.
Doush'ur, God of the Tide, He Who Changes the Face of the World, Keeper of the Turtle Celestial, looks has a shrine that bestows extended breathing underwater, +2" Swimming, Dolphin speech, + 5 PRE, Diminished Need for Drink, Analyze: Disguise skills and Retrocognition: Only to see Targets last Life Altering event.
To receive this blessing a pilgrim must make KS: Religion by -4, EGO rol by -3, Acting by -3, Deduction by -3 and Inventor by -2.
Players do not need to know what skills are required or research by rading or talking to Clerics about what tests the God requires of them.

A few thoughts, take'm or leave'm.

[GregF]

I'm nowhere near done with my own campaign-building, but maybe sharing what I've done so far will help out the original poster or perhaps someone'll give me some guidance.

I started with coming up with an odd element-based calendar system. To be a bit different, I didn't use a standard set of elements- I came up with five whose meanings are a bit more metaphorical than a standard set. That sort of inspired me with some cool ideas about history, magic, religion, non-human races and such through an emphasis on the elements and their number. Continuation of some of those things gave me ideas for adventures. I suppose that's as far as I can help- ideas build off each other and are connected, perhaps in ways that aren't obvious.

My problem is getting about that far and hitting a brick wall. Those cool ideas were too much to graft into an existing setting, but not enough to be a full world. (I don't really know very much about politics, organizations, recent history, technology, daily life, geography, etc.) And without all the nitty-gritty, I don't have enough to actually do stuff, contrary to my previous beliefs. (I was having problems spending points and coming up with disads earlier, but seeing how much of many characters is world-specific, knowing more about the world would be useful) Anyone have any advice?

[Captain Obvious]

I highly recommend the World Builder's Guidebook for 2nd Ed AD&D. It's mostly pretty generic, so even if you hate everything D&D, it shouldn't be too offensive. It's got guidelines for setting up a world starting at the global level and working down to a reasonable campaign area, or conversely, starting with a single village and building up from there. It's got some good guidelines on economics, cultures, technologies, populations, gods, etc. Just about any little area you get stuck on in world creation should find some inspiration here.

If you can't find it in print anywhere, rpgnow.com has it under 2nd Ed AD&D Accessories for $4.95 as a PDF. And even if you generally hate electronic formats for game books, how often are you going to be referencing this in-game? I do all my world-building at the computer, even if I never play with e-books. Plus, it makes it easier to print out the blank map sheets that come as a pad in the printed version. I had to scan them all to print them out, after I used up most of the pad.

You'd think I was on WOTC's payroll, looking at this post....

[ShadowRaptor]

The World Builders Guidebook is an excellent sourcebook for building a world. It does the job.

That said, each person will develop their kind of world differently than anybody else.

Me, if I were to try to create a setting of my very own, first I think of a concept of that world. Something small, either a single sentence or a small paragraph to get the feel of the world.

Then I think of the kinds of peoples and cultures that could possibly work within the scope of the concept. I stress possible because this is still the brainstorming area, and I write down anything I can think of.

***Always write down any idea that comes, no matter how wierd it may seem***

Then I come up with a brief history of how the world came to be, within the scope of the concept. This is usually nothing more than a page or two, briefly describing how things came about. When I write this I usually envision some kind of being looking down on the world for the duration of the history, seeing how the world turned out and became what it is today.

Then I look at what's been done, see if anything in those settings could work in mine, twist it to fit my concept if I think those 'ideas' could work, and so on...and I try to come up with non-stereotype settings...

***In one world idea I had the elves as the bad guys trying to destroy the rest of the races as they saw themselves as the divine race from beyond time*** and so on...

Sometimes I come up with cool ideas, and sometimes I come up with ideas that upon later retrospect I toss out...

But most important, if you want to create a campaign setting of your very own...NEVER give up!!!!! :D

[JamesDJIII]

There's a lot of good advice given above, but let me throw in a little bit more.

I recommend the book "GM LAW" by ICE. Not sure if it's still in print, but I keep finding copies here and there for about $15.00. Look on Ebay.

I'd also recommend as good method of building a campaign that you 1) hook the players right off the bat, and 2) start small (don't build the whole thing at once).

Works for me. YMMV.

[Nevenall]

Some of my favorite campaign worlds are the ones where we start with a blank map and pass it around the table. Every one adds something to the map, and you can fill in details as neccessary.
We did this once for a game that three of us would take turns running, and it worked out remarkably well.
So, I always to try to encourage the players to contribute to the world, even if it's just the place their character comes from because, that way, I get elements Inever would have thought of myself, which is great for making my campaign more like a real place.

[Nightshade]

I would buy a setting to start off with. If you have never run a game/campaign before, the whole concept of creating a whole world can be daunting. Trust me, it takes a lot of time.

HERO will be putting out the Turakian Age soon, so that would be a good way to start, since you won't have to convert everything. Also, there are many good web sites around where you can steal... err, mine for... ideas.

My recommendation would be to start there and change things to fit your tastes.

Nightshade

[John Desmarais]

Originally posted by Nightshade
I would buy a setting to start off with. If you have never run a game/campaign before, the whole concept of creating a whole world can be daunting. Trust me, it takes a lot of time.

HERO will be putting out the Turakian Age soon, so that would be a good way to start, since you won't have to convert everything. Also, there are many good web sites around where you can steal... err, mine for... ideas.

My recommendation would be to start there and change things to fit your tastes.

Nightshade

On the "buy a setting" concept, I would also recommend Kingdoms of Kalamar. It's a D&D setting, but the Campaign Sourcebook is well thohght out and amazingly free of game system stuff, concentrating instead of describing the world. This is the setting I'm currently using for my Fantasy Hero game and it's been very easy to drop Hero System into the setting.

John Desmarais

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by John Desmarais
On the "buy a setting" concept, I would also recommend Kingdoms of Kalamar. It's a D&D setting, but the Campaign Sourcebook is well thohght out and amazingly free of game system stuff, concentrating instead of describing the world. This is the setting I'm currently using for my Fantasy Hero game and it's been very easy to drop Hero System into the setting.

John Desmarais

Im a big fan of Kalamar myself (everything EXCEPT the name -- sounds too much like an Italian squid dish). And the ATLAS is just amazing.

I actually integrated Kalamar into my Greyhawk campaigns conceptually -- none of the PCs every went there, but they briefly encountered some NPC that were from that region.

I spliced it onto the map to the west of the Greyhawk map -- the scale is different, but if you look at the "rest of Oerth map" in the Dragon Annual 1, reprinted in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, tell me if the "hook" of Kalamar doesnt bear an uncanny resemblance to a very similar land feature off the western edge of the Greyhawk Flanaess map. If you line the maps up on that and mentally adjust for scale, allowing for curvature of the earth at the top of the map and some primitive cartographic allowances, there are a LOT of features of the Kalamar map that match up to the Rest of Oerth map. So much so that I find it unlikely to be a coincidence.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by RadeFox
Campaigns and Catacombs book for AD&D 2nd

An excellent, game mechanic free, useful in any game supplement.

I particularly like the isometric grid for making maps. Ive got a copy in excellent condition I bought when it was released, and I wont lend it to anybody -- theres no way Ill risk it walking off as its too hard to find another copy. ;)

Highly recommended.

[Killer Shrike]

On topic: I would highly recommend that you take an existing setting and adapt it to the HERO System for your first try. World-building is very time consuming, and 90% of the work is wasted on most play groups, who really just want to get down to the action anyway.

I recommend you pick a setting that fits your interests, has good material that is setting-driven (vice consisting mostly of lots of NPCs and magic items, ala Forgotten Realms), which requires a minimal upfront expenditure (the basic setting is described all in one book or a basic outline is cheaply available with a series of regional books you can buy selectively per your interest), and is readily available (isnt out of print).

My personal favorite is the Greyhawk setting, and the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer is a great body of work, summarizing the basic info of the world in a single book. Greyhawk is a High Fantasy setting -- it's got more magic and high powered shinanegans going on than most fantasy novels, but less than the Forgotten Realms.

Kalamar is also an excellent place to start; the main book is very comprehensive and very light on mechanics, and the Atlas (if you opt to get it) is really cool. Kalamar is more restrained than Greyhawk and is somewhere between Sword & Sorcery and High Fantasy. Magic exists, but its much rarer, and "high level" characters are much much rarer based upon the material indicated in an appendix of the main book. Much more historically oriented, with a focus on politics and the military. The Kalamaran Empire itself evokes the Roman Empire to me; if you liked the background parts of Gladiator for example, then add in the occassional lower level magic user and thats Kalamar to me.

Dark Sun could be a lot of fun, but the original boxed set was printed about 13-14 years ago now and has been OOP for a number of years if memory serves, so good luck finding a copy.

You might want to check out the Scarred Lands setting published by Sword & Sorcery. IIRC there is a small primer for a few bucks to lay the basics of the world out and then a number of regional books kind of in the old D&D Gazeteer style. Its more on the Dark High Fantasy end of the spectrum, and seems slanted at a slightly younger audience. It has its own bestiarys and magic supplements, so its not as cheap to get into as, say, Kalamar or Greyhawk which use the basic Monster Manuals -- but if you dont have the Monster Manuals anyhoo then its all the same upfront ;)

Those are all D&D related settings. There are other non-D&D related settings out there like Lord of the Rings/Middle Earth, Talislanta, Harn, etc but Ill let someone more familiar with them give you the low down.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

[GregF]

Wow, thanks a lot. I have to admit that I don't really see how to make major changes to a setting and retain its coherence, but that'd be a different thread. I guess I'll just see if I can borrow any setting stuff from my D&D friends and work from there until I feel comfortable.

[JamesDJIII]

Whoa. Wait a minute!

Maybe we're all getting ahead of ourselves. PerrenialRook, how much experience do you have as a GM? Do you have a regular gaming group? Do you know what your players want?

Don't make a big mistake of jumping into a setting with guns cocked, only to find out that what you are offering is thinly disguised fiction. What a let down! Spend some time figuring out what it is that the players would like to have, and start from there.

Settings are fine and can save you a ton of time and effort. They can seed your imagination wonderfully... but... baby steps, PR, baby steps.

[Korvar]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Dark Sun could be a lot of fun, but the original boxed set was printed about 13-14 years ago now and has been OOP for a number of years if memory serves, so good luck finding a copy.


The entire Dark Sun catalogue is now available for PDF download at SVGames - http://www.svgames.com/downloads-wotc-adnddksun.html. Each is under $5, including the boxed sets (although you obviously can't download a PDF box :) )

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Im a big fan of Kalamar myself (everything EXCEPT the name -- sounds too much like an Italian squid dish). And the ATLAS is just amazing.

I actually integrated Kalamar into my Greyhawk campaigns conceptually -- none of the PCs every went there, but they briefly encountered some NPC that were from that region.

I spliced it onto the map to the west of the Greyhawk map -- the scale is different, but if you look at the "rest of Oerth map" in the Dragon Annual 1, reprinted in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, tell me if the "hook" of Kalamar doesnt bear an uncanny resemblance to a very similar land feature off the western edge of the Greyhawk Flanaess map. If you line the maps up on that and mentally adjust for scale, allowing for curvature of the earth at the top of the map and some primitive cartographic allowances, there are a LOT of features of the Kalamar map that match up to the Rest of Oerth map. So much so that I find it unlikely to be a coincidence.

heh, check out who does the Kingdoms of Kalamar and then check out their website. I won't spoil it fer ya but it is a hoot!

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip
heh, check out who does the Kingdoms of Kalamar and then check out their website. I won't spoil it fer ya but it is a hoot! Yeah, I know -- Kenzer Co of KOTDT fame.

[PhilFleischmann]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
90% of the work is wasted on most play groups, who really just want to get down to the action anyway.
IMHO, the above quote is the key. Start with the adventures, not the world. My friends and I played deendee for years without ever thinking about the politics of the campaign world, or what the continent we were on looked like. We had lots of fun. That was back before most of the campaign suppliments were published, and the ones there were, we didn't buy anyway.

Start with the adventures, make sure your players enjoy them. Fill in details as you go along, and as necessary. If your first adventure takes place in a great walled city, then you know that there's a great walled city in your world. This could be the capital of the kingdom, or not. You can make whatever decision you feel you want for the way you want the world to be. Ask yourself: Are there other cities this big in the world? Is this the biggest or one of the top ten? How far away is the nearest city of comparable size? Is the other city friendly or hostile to this one? Are there smaller cities and villages nearby? Other questions will probably occur to you. Your players might even ask you some questions.

If your next adventure takes place in some ancient ruins on the edge of a deep, dark forest, then you've just added some ruins and a forest to your campaign. Where are the ruins in relation to the walled city? They're probably not too far away, since the PCs just came from there. Exactly how ancient are these ruins? Does anyone or anything important or dangerous live in the forest? What keeps the danger from threatening the walled city and nearby villages? Is there a relatively safe road or path through the forest? Are the trees deciduous or coniferous? (do the leaves turn colors and fall off in the autumn, or are they evergreen?) How fertile is the soil here? Where are the nearest people to the ruins? Why are the ruins no longer inhabited?

Your players next adventure might be in an underground cave complex. Are the caves natural or were they carved out by someone (or something)? What could the caves be used for? Where are the caves in relation to the walled city, ruins, and forest? Do the people of the city know about the caves? Could it be that whatever caused the ruins to fall into ruin was something that emerged from the caves?

When you answer these questions, and ask others that occur to you or your players, guess what you're doing? You're world-building!

[Vanguard00]

Originally posted by PerennialRook
How do I/you build a campaign?

-Preston

Well, to paraphrase JamesDJIII, one step at a time.

First you determine what both you and the players want to accomplish. Are you looking for relatively short adventures that can be a lot of fun, or do you want a serious campaign to watch the characters change and grow?

If it's the first option, then you don't need that much. My recommendation would be to pick a city and go from there. You don't necessarily even need a map, though a rough sketch of the city and surrounding lands is probably appropriate.

Put the city on the edge of a civilized land, similar to Thieves' World setting. Make that city a cross between the civilized interests of the ruling class (be it city, state or empire), and part frontier attitude, with people coming and going all the time. The surrounding lands might be settled, but go too far away and you're back in the wilderness, home of monsters, dungeons, evil wizards, bandit lords and whatever nastiness you think might bring a good adventure. With just the one city and the surrounding lands you can have infinite adventures without ever developing too much of the continent, politics, etc. And if you want to develope things further, you have a basis.

By the way, make sure you keep notes on people, places and things encountered. You never know when you'll need/want it again.

If you want a serious campaign, I'd have to direct you to <a href="http://www.roleplayingtips.com">RoleplayingTips.com</a>. It's an excellent site for new and experienced gamers and GMs. Browse the older issues and read the tips on how to begin adventures, campaigns, build worlds, etc.

The advice you've received thus far about using preexisting campaign settings is all very good, but what it comes down is determining what both you AND the players want. Start there...the rest will sort itself out.

Again, write down everything that occurs to you, and everything you use. Maintain consistancy in your game no matter which way you go.

Them's my two bits.

[Lezentauw]

I personnally use the Kingdoms of Kalamar as my campaign backdrop. The sourcebook for this campaign contains 95% background information. While all the areas are pretty detailed, there is no area that you cannot modify without worrying about chinging the feel of the world. Even if you do, just remember that this is your campaign. Change it to how you want it to represent.

By using KoK as a backdrop, I am able to now concentrate on the areas that the pcs are in. I only then have to further detail things out, as I envision them.

One of the major changes that you will do to any campaign, is the magic system you chose to use. That is one of the most important decisions in a FH campaign.

[PhilFleischmann]

A richly detailed world is irrelevent if the individual adventures aren't enjoyable to play. As I said before, start with the adventures - the stuff the players are actually going to see and do.

Once you've got a good start on your world, after some number of adventures, certain overall, world-governing principles may occur to you. A theme may start to develop. You may notice things that are missing from your world - so add them! You may think of things to add: new monsters, an exotic country with a different type of government, any unique fantasy or fantastic element that occurs to you.

IMHO, if you let the world develop "organically" like this, it will seem much more natural, believable, and consistant, than if you preset everything. When the whole world is set up in advance (before actual adventuring) you have no way of knowing if certain elements don't work. It's like making a product without customer feedback: how do you know the players will like it?

And speaking of players, let the players help create the world. By this I mean add to the world the places where the PCs come from, and where their backstories took place. One player might say, "I'm a barbarian from the mountainous kingdom of Wuttevr, to the east. I crossed the vast desert to come to this land and meet the rest of my current travelling companions (the PC Party)." Be grateful to such a player! He's done much of your work for you! Now you know that to the east there is a desert and beyond that a mountain range that is the home of a barbarian tribe. This also establishes a bond between the players and the world.

[Talon]

Originally posted by PhilFleischmann
A richly detailed world is irrelevent if the individual adventures aren't enjoyable to play.

What are you talking about? If the players don't like the adventures, you can just wow them with a few hours of describing the great world you've created! :)

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
What are you talking about? If the players don't like the adventures, you can just wow them with a few hours of describing the great world you've created! :)

Yeah! Players love that!

Keith "And then in the Eleventh Age, after the deposition of Uberkonig Wilhelm the 37th of the Scarlet Empire..." Curtis

[Talon]

Seriously, though, Phil is quite right.

In my current (3E) campaign, I spent a /lot/ of time creating the world -- detailed map, demographics, etc. I had the locations of everything all mapped out and ready to go. From the players' perspective, however, little of this matters -- all they want to know is "what are our options to get from point A to point B?" A lot of that work was not really used and proved unnecessary.

On the other hand, the work I did to prepare general politics and background has definitely paid off, as I can easily keep track of what's going on and what NPC reactions are to different events.

[Savinien]

I'd be more interested in hearing about what happened to Master Sangiyok in the city of Adala while speaking to the Merchant Bandit in the Hole Market... That sounds like a great story! :D

Back to the topic:

How come I haven't seen more mention of Magic Systems? I agree with Lezentauw and Steve... Magic changes everything...

Anyone got more advice on creating orignal, theme-oriented Magic Systems? I'm ignorant of Game Mechanics and want to talk meshing the Magic System with the backdrop of the setting...

Any takers?

[Talon]

Originally posted by Savinien
How come I haven't seen more mention of Magic Systems? I agree with Lezentauw and Steve... Magic changes everything...

Anyone got more advice on creating orignal, theme-oriented Magic Systems? I'm ignorant of Game Mechanics and want to talk meshing the Magic System with the backdrop of the setting...

There's ton of threads on this -- magic systems are a huge morass of discussion. The biggest problems in creating a magic system are knowing what you want, and putting flavor above rules. It's really easy to get bogged down in issues of rules mechanics instead of focusing on the world. My advice: write a page or so on how magic works without mentioning game rules or terms at all. Then figure out how to translate that into the Hero System.

[Citizen Keen]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
What are you talking about? If the players don't like the adventures, you can just wow them with a few hours of describing the great world you've created! :)

That actually works - I've found my games run much more smoothely if I just make my characters by all their characteristics, skills and powers with the Limitation (No Conscious Control). I've found that free will can occasionally bog down games. Without Free Will (+0), which is an option most GMs employ even though it isn't even listed in the rulebook, my players and I find that our games are much more finely crafted - players tend to do exactly what I expect, and complete tasks successfully whenever I want, and fail when I want. My games are amazing.

[GregF]

Originally posted by PhilFleischmann
IMHO, the above quote is the key. Start with the adventures, not the world. My friends and I played deendee for years without ever thinking about the politics of the campaign world, or what the continent we were on looked like. We had lots of fun. That was back before most of the campaign suppliments were published, and the ones there were, we didn't buy anyway.

Yes, but I've tried setting up an adventure with little idea of what was going on in the world, and it seemed like having little idea of what was going on in the world made it nearly impossible to write things up. For instance, if I wanted to make a character who used to be a member of some town guard somewhere, I'd have to decide exactly what skills/traits members of the guard have, why they have those traits, enough details about the somewhere to know that those skills and even the existence of a guard make sense, etc.

[PhilFleischmann]

In that case, you go ahead and make up those details - because you're actually using them! That's what I'm saying create details as they become important. Don't bother creating a town and this skills that its guardsmen have if you aren't going to create that character.

Yes, eventually you may start to get a seemingly haphazard collection of details with no overall "theme," but

1) what's wrong with that? After all, that's the way the real world is. Medieval Europe did not design itself to be consistant and compatible with Feudal Japan. The Portugeuse did not consult the Poles when establishing their society.
2) at that point, if you want you can start to add details that do bring the world together. Figure out how the different cities/nations/peoples get along with each other, etc.

And yes, I have created some unnecessary detail in my campaign world, because I enjoyed it, and to help me as the GM, get a feel of "the big picture" of the world (#2 above).

My world has two overall ideas that govern it:
1) Each village or city has its own native style of magic that it teaches to its inhabitants. The village of Pepperrose uses herbalism. The city of Phaneinopolis uses magic that deals with light. The city of Kesseltra was originally three separate villages, all with similar styles of magic dealing with transformations. Magicians on the north side learn to assume the forms of various animals, those on the west side transmute materials, and the ones on the south side transform whole objects or people into other objects.
2) Things get weirder and more exotic the farther you go from the central area of the campaign. Things are fairly normal in Virbenland and Neron, the two main "good guy" kingdoms of the world, and in Wizard's Wound, the desert that separates them. Once you enter Grominia, the land of the gnomes to the south, or cross the Snake Peaks, the home of dwarves to the east, or sail west to the Ylanian Ocean, or explore the Northern Colonies, you'll find strange monsters, unusual cultures and magic that seems most alien.

The main issue I have with designing a magic system is its effect on the quasi-historical elements of society. I want there to be mighty stone castles, which wouldn't exist in a world where people commonly have magical powers which let them fly, become desolid, or teleport. So how do you add magic without changing the medieval feel?

Whew! I didn't mean for this to be so long. I guess I just got on a roll!

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by PhilFleischmann
The main issue I have with designing a magic system is its effect on the quasi-historical elements of society. I want there to be mighty stone castles, which wouldn't exist in a world where people commonly have magical powers which let them fly, become desolid, or teleport. So how do you add magic without changing the medieval feel?

I had thought about starting new topic on this, but since it's still appropriate for a campaign building thread, I'll just keep it here...

A helpful way of looking at magic is to equate it with cutting edge technology in the real world. How does cutting edge technology affect the way real wars are fought? Obviously, when you have it, you use it to the fullest extent possible. When you don't, or when it's too expensive or impractical to use, you don't use it. Several nations in the real world have nuclear technology, but they rarely (okay, never actually, but for the sake of argument here...) rarely use it in infantry skirmishes. They're prepared to use it in large-scale land battles (tactical nukes), and on a continental scale (strategic nukes). Those nations without nuclear technology aren't totally unarmed for their lack of it...they use conventional weapons to the extent that they can, as do the nuclear powers in situations where, even though the capability is there, the overwhelming urgency isn't.

Let's look at the fantasy analogs now. Unless magic is particularly rampant in your world, there will likely be none used in small-scale skirmishes. A large scale battle will likely involve at least a little magic, and on the largest scale of warfare (kingdoms vs kingdoms or empires vs empires) there will be as much magic used as the rulers can muster, not only in direct damaging attacks but in information gathering and in magical defense too. Nations with little magical ability will still use steel and stone for their main offensive and defensive capabilities, as will even the most magically capable nations in situations where the cost of using magic is too high (even if that cost is simply the fatigue and stress on the nation's mighty wizards). Obviously, a greater or lesser availability of magic will raise or lower the standard of where magic becomes a viable option in a given combat.

To come full circle now, and combine a few ideas touched on earlier, a castle is always useful against a magically inept enemy. Against a magically capable enemy, a magically defended castle is still quite useful (and if an area is worth guarding with a castle, it's worth guarding with a wizard). Against a magically superior enemy, a castle will slow them down longer than a bunch of guys in an open field. Only in a world where magic is both extremely powerful and extremely common would this change, and even then, it's likely castles would still be useful as focal points for defensive magics if nothing else.

Okay, maybe I'm babbling.

[tetsujin28]

It's interesting that no-one has mentioned my favourite way to start a campaign: find some period in history that piques your interest, and run with it. I've never given a hoot about what happens to the fabled Kingdom of Gaga, but Japan, India, the Roman Empire? Now you're talking.

If you want to take a look at settings that have a created world, I can't recommend Midnight from Fantasy Flight Games enough. It's a gritty, low-down campaign of fighting the ultimate evil. Well thought-out, classic Tolkeinesque fantasy with a twist of horror. I love it, and I don't even like Tolkein ;) Scarier than Ravenloft, way more fun than Forgotten Realms.

Some people love the 7th Sea world, Theah. I loathe it, for the reasons mentioned in paragraph 1. Why make a fantasy 16th-century pseudo-Europe that makes no sense politically, religiously, or geographically, when you could make a fantasy 16th-century Europe, with all the coolness that implies?

I picked up Victoriana, since it was Fuzion based, but was greatly disappointed.

Far better was the Septentrionalis campaign, which was a fantasy 17th-century D&D campaign in the Americas. No longer available on the web, but I still have all the PDFs if anyone is interested.

[Earen]

Personally, I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the Shadow World campaign setting published by Iron Crown Enterprises in the mid-90s. I thought it was a very detailed and well-thought-out campaign setting that was very original ... but also could be used as a backdrop for most pre-established campaigns that needed a larger world to fit into. (It even had notes on how to use certain features within a FH campaign.)

The thing that I liked about it was that it was both a High Fantasy-type setting ... but had a grim and gritty feel. Magic was plentiful ... but the world was dangerous. Paraphrased as best as I can remember from the campaign book: The world is a dark, dangerous and mysterious place. Long-distance travel is dangerous. Expect characters to die. Because travel is hard due to sharp changes to the landscape and the ravages of the Essence Storms (storms of pure magical force) ... just a small distance traveled can mean wholesale changes in the culture due to geographical boundaries which are nigh impossible to cross.

I wish I had thrown out my ex-wife instead of my early gaming materials ... *sigh* hindsight is 20-20.

[Old Man]

Shadow World was real hit or miss. I wound up with a couple of SW books that just utterly suck (Orgillion Horror, for one). Others were weird and wonderful, if extremely high fantasy, such as Gethaena. The randomness of quality kind of turned me off to the whole setting, though.