Superhero MMORPG's. Can't Work.

[Law Dog]

As many of you know, there is an online 3-D super-hero RPG in the works called City of Heroes. It is going to be similar to Everquest with players creating superheroes. So far, so good.

Now before I proceed any further, let me say I do enjoy MMORPG's. I've played a lot of Everquest in the past 3 years. My main bone here is that the RPG part of MMORPG is misleading. Nobody real roleplays. Okay, there are a few, but for the most part, it plays like an old fashion D&D monster smackdown mixed with a chatroom. So, one of the avenues of expression and reasons for playing instantly evaporates.

Now lets all come to one point of agreement. Not everybody can create what we would consider a good superhero. Wink, wink, we all know the ones we create are great and would be perfect for at least a comic book mini-series, but we've all played with folks who create heroes that are plain stupid. Now imagine this multiplied a hundredfold or a thousandfold. Imagine a long list of misplaced D&D characters, gun wielding Punisher clones, bad puns and double entandres like the Undigestible Wad and an assortment of randomly named characters with names like Beblix or Norkonn who have no theme and just randomly cobbled together powers.

After discussing this with folks from my gaming group, we came upon the conclusion that the reason why this type of MMOG (I took out the RolePlaying) will not work is that Superheroic game is so different from most other games. Most other games seem to be Kill stuff - Get things. Superhero games are Stop the bad guy - Save the World - Do good - Stop evil.

That's the way I see it.

[Hermit]

While I may, or may not try to get in on COH when/if (They keep falling behind) it comes out, I go to the site from time to time. It can be entertaining, and many of the groups and team sites are actually inspired, or at least fun.

I think it might work if enough people are working to review characters, and the genre is enforced somehow. I don't know if they'd have the manpower though. Still, find a way to penalize killing and it might keep things a bit more true to form.

Also, if the fans and staff alike give plenty of examples of what fits the genre, it might help the rookies to it figure it out faster. Just why do people have shiney costumes, capes, but no swords? Why doesn't that gadgeteer use a AK-47 with DPU rounds? If they start asking that, they might find the answer.

Unlike yourself though, I've not yet tried a MMORPG, not even Everquest (Which my friends who know it better refer to as 'Evercrack'). So maybe this is just 'optimistic rookie' talk on my part here. :)

[wcw43921]

Originally posted by Law Dog
As many of you know, there is an online 3-D super-hero RPG in the works called City of Heroes. It is going to be similar to Everquest with players creating superheroes. So far, so good.

Now before I proceed any further, let me say I do enjoy MMORPG's. I've played a lot of Everquest in the past 3 years. My main bone here is that the RPG part of MMORPG is misleading. Nobody real roleplays. Okay, there are a few, but for the most part, it plays like an old fashion D&D monster smackdown mixed with a chatroom. So, one of the avenues of expression and reasons for playing instantly evaporates.

I would think that just because the characters are not face-to-face doesn't mean they're not interacting. When you talk to someone on the phone, you're not in the same room with them, but you're still interacting. Same with chatrooms and instant messaging--you may only see words on the screen, but you react and respond to them not unlike you were talking to the person. (There are differences, of course--lag time is one, and it's much easier to ignore someone online than if they came up to you on the street.)

And people can, and do, identify with their characters online the same way they identify with their tabletop characters. They invest time, imagination and effort in their creation and playing, whether it's stats and notes committed to pencil and paper or lines of computer code stored in a server--it's still "My Character." Which to my mind makes an online game like EQ or COH a role-playing game.

Now lets all come to one point of agreement. Not everybody can create what we would consider a good superhero. Wink, wink, we all know the ones we create are great and would be perfect for at least a comic book mini-series, but we've all played with folks who create heroes that are plain stupid. Now imagine this multiplied a hundredfold or a thousandfold. Imagine a long list of misplaced D&D characters, gun wielding Punisher clones, bad puns and double entandres like the Undigestible Wad and an assortment of randomly named characters with names like Beblix or Norkonn who have no theme and just randomly cobbled together powers.

As I said above, people identify with their characters, and invest time, imagination and effort into their creation. Some more than others, but they identify with them nonetheless. A player's "WildGuy" character may be a swipe of Wolverine--but it's HIS swipe of Wolverine, not somebody else's swipe or even Wolverine himself. Same with the player whose character is "Like, he's got Batman's attitude and Reed Richards' brains, and he's got weapons that shoot different energy beams like Space Ghost's power bands, but they're way cooler, and, and. . ." In his mind, his character is the greatest thing since loose-meat burger on toast with gravy and mashed potatoes--and who are we to argue?

But I think most of the characters in COH will be "good" if for no other reason than most, if not all of the players will come to it on their own, rather than reluctantly play along because that's what the rest of the gaming group wants to play. We've all encountered the type before--someone who's ambivalent, if not downright antipathetic, towards the superhero genre and has little interest in creating a "good" character. I seriously doubt these people will be found playing COH.

After discussing this with folks from my gaming group, we came upon the conclusion that the reason why this type of MMOG (I took out the RolePlaying) will not work is that Superheroic game is so different from most other games. Most other games seem to be Kill stuff - Get things. Superhero games are Stop the bad guy - Save the World - Do good - Stop evil.

I'd like to think that being unlike most games would work in a superhero MMORPG's favor. For one, not being able to "Kill stuff - Get things" would keep out all the grief players--if there's no profit in killing and/or taking things from your fellow players, what's the point? That (hopefully) leaves all the "good" players who know the genre and want to play the genre and have fun and help each other out while they "Stop the bad guy - Save the World - Do good - Stop evil."

That's the way I see it.

And now you know the way I see it.

[GradonSilverton]

The problem that I have seen is the influx of Doom like games and the impact on computer gamers. The vast majority of people who play games like this and Everquest are not Gamers as we know them, they are Half-Life players looking for something new. The Role Play aspect is there if you want it but the majority has had games developers handle the role playing for them in side bars that they are just use to getting into the game and killing stuff. There will have to be both Good and Bad players for a game like this, and you know as well as I that there will probably be a influx of Villians vs. a Miniscule amout of Hero's. Most gaming companies do not have the resources they need to pull off a game like this. They need an entire staff (much bigger than the staff for this board as an example) to run a games like this an keep it sucessful. I'm holding out for Galaxies (maybe this Summer last I heard) b/c Lucas Arts does have the staff...and the money...to feasably pull it off.

[rjd59]

Could someone point me in the direction of the website please? I haven't heard of this before this thread and would like to check it out.
Thanks in advance!

[Hermit]

Originally posted by rjd59
Could someone point me in the direction of the website please? I haven't heard of this before this thread and would like to check it out.
Thanks in advance!
http://www.cityofheroes.com/

[Chaosliege]

I personaly cant wait until COH comes out. I'm getting more and more depressed by the constant delays, but I still want to check it out. I too have played 'Evercrack', (yes, that is a proper name for it) and I enjoyed it. I just hope COH can do for supers what 'Evercrack' did for fantasy.

[Big Willy]

Originally posted by Law Dog
Imagine a long list of misplaced D&D characters, gun wielding Punisher clones, bad puns and double entandres like the Undigestible Wad and an assortment of randomly named characters with names like Beblix or Norkonn who have no theme and just randomly cobbled together powers.


Hmm. Violent misfits with strange powers, weak rationales and forgettable names who're only interested in treasure?

They sound like supervillains to me...

[MarkusDark]

You will always have your power gamers, your smack downers, those who just want to hunt and kill and become the biggest and baddest out there. You'll get those that don't RP at all but rather just complete the quests, get the points and move on.

But you will also get the low percentage of those who DO roleplay, who stick to their character's ideals and goals and interact as if they are the superheroes.

I have been involved in developing and running MMORPG's for over the last half decade and as far as putting out a system, that isn't the big issue. Hell, someone with just a little bit of programming skill, a server and an internet connection can put something out (and has). The question is - can those producing it deliver the world they are shooting for.

Example - many have the titles of "Player driven societies" but that is misleading. A society is a group of people so, ya, any group of players create a society. However, only one game I have encountered (and yes, directed) has that ability and that is Dark Ages (not of Camelot). This is a place where people run for office, others vote and it is the players, not the admins, who make all of the common daily law enforcements of their community.

The main hurdle I see with CoH is that most hero games are based upon a ratio of something along the lines of one hero for every 10,000 (or more) normal people. With EVERYONE being a hero, there will be a line for people to stop the bankrobbers, to attack Proffessor Destro's lab and so on. Most hero universes don't have the "dungeons crawling with critters" that you just go into and hunt around for. I suppose you could find the Viper base and just sit there and plink off agents but that isn't the feel of the genre.

I will be curious to see how they manage everything from character creation and advancement to the disneyland lines to go on the supervillian quests and, most importantly, those players who get bored and do their best to play villians by sabotaging other's gameplay.

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
The main hurdle I see with CoH is that most hero games are based upon a ratio of something along the lines of one hero for every 10,000 (or more) normal people. With EVERYONE being a hero, there will be a line for people to stop the bankrobbers, to attack Proffessor Destro's lab and so on. Most hero universes don't have the "dungeons crawling with critters" that you just go into and hunt around for. I suppose you could find the Viper base and just sit there and plink off agents but that isn't the feel of the genre.

I will be curious to see how they manage everything from character creation and advancement to the disneyland lines to go on the supervillian quests and, most importantly, those players who get bored and do their best to play villians by sabotaging other's gameplay.

Thats a damn fine obsevation..... one that hadn't even remotely crossed my mind..... I'm going to have to chew on that for a while...

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
Thats a damn fine obsevation..... one that hadn't even remotely crossed my mind..... I'm going to have to chew on that for a while...

Yeah, that's the main reason I haven't paid much attention to CoH despite being a MMORPG junkie. Still waiting for real information on how they're handling villain spawns...

[Ghost Archer]

Has anyone tried Neverwinter Nights? I understand that anyone can create their own little corner of the Universe and put in it what they will. Perhaps this is what we need, a place were we long term players can offer our world for others to adventure in. It would solve the problem of turning it into another hack and slash if I could dropped in on Hermit's world and find a bank robbery in progress or an investigation that needed to be worked.
I believe that each NWN GM/DM world allows 64 players max. I think it would still be a challenge for the GM of each piece, to entertain 64 but it would be far better than thousands upon thousands going through the same things ad nauseum.

[TheEmerged]

Can you create a "world" in NWN? Technically. It requires a boatload more work than the average person has patience for, and the scripting language behind it is allegedly (because I gave up on the editor quickly, I confess) designed by Kafka fans.

[MarkusDark]

I heard it was a hit and miss sort of item. As previously mentioned, it is rather difficult for your average, non-programmer gamer to be able to plink away with the scripting language and other things to create much. I can't remember the review my friend gave me on it - someone who's opinion is rather solid - but, in the end, his basic statement was that it was yet another instance that the company had a good idea but terrible followthrough.

I wonder why it is that most MMORPG's out there always seem to miss some of the most obvious hurdles.

[GradonSilverton]

World creation in NWN can be extremely difficult. If one has scripting expertise then all that is required is a large amout of time....

Th eproblem with NWN is high numbers of Hacked characters run around killing everything they can. I have yet to see one run (except for groups on a network that are using it as a campaign tool) were there is any form of teamwork...

MASS mayhem.

[pawsplay]

I think what is needed is a game that spawns encounters like, "Bus teetering over a bridge," or "wacky villains botching bank job" or "hostage situation."

[Law Dog]

Sounds good to me and a hell of a lot less depressing than villian kills your girlfriend and stuffs her in the fridge.

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by pawsplay
I think what is needed is a game that spawns encounters like, "Bus teetering over a bridge," or "wacky villains botching bank job" or "hostage situation."

The trouble with that is as follows:

Game generates Hostage Situation (I'll go for the more RP/difficult one you made).

The Hostage Situation is revealed to the immediate area (or whatever means such a situation would be revealed).

200 heroes show up within 30 seconds, a few try to do the RP thing of assessing the situation while the other 190 simply storm the building, attack the attackers and probably all the hostages as well (dang hack-n-slashers).

The ONLY answer I can find to this is for the game to only alert one to three heroes, and grant their characters access to one of the hundreds of "Module Buildings" in an area to go deal with it. The trouble with this is that the game would have to proactively check and edit characters, instead of the company standards of reactively check and edit (ala click on the NPC and have him give you a mission). I am not sure what the server usage would be on such a thing.

Also, since these missions would be more than that "Deliver this to this person" and require actual combat, you would have to deal with those players who try and 'horn in' on your action. The passkey idea above helps a bit but I could see a very glitchy nightmare of keeping track of it, the portals, the setup, deciding when to remove and reset the module, etc...

[Shadowpup]

Originally posted by MarkusDark

Example - many have the titles of "Player driven societies" but that is misleading. A society is a group of people so, ya, any group of players create a society. However, only one game I have encountered (and yes, directed) has that ability and that is Dark Ages (not of Camelot). This is a place where people run for office, others vote and it is the players, not the admins, who make all of the common daily law enforcements of their community.

Shadowbane
Shadowbane
Shadowbane


The main hurdle I see with CoH is that most hero games are based upon a ratio of something along the lines of one hero for every 10,000 (or more) normal people. With EVERYONE being a hero, there will be a line for people to stop the bankrobbers, to attack Proffessor Destro's lab and so on. Most hero universes don't have the "dungeons crawling with critters" that you just go into and hunt around for. I suppose you could find the Viper base and just sit there and plink off agents but that isn't the feel of the genre.

I will be curious to see how they manage everything from character creation and advancement to the disneyland lines to go on the supervillian quests and, most importantly, those players who get bored and do their best to play villians by sabotaging other's gameplay.

I'd be willing to bet that they have supervillain as an option for players. Then there will be no lack of guys to beat up for either side. Either that, or there will be no distinction, just supers in general.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
I'd be willing to bet that they have supervillain as an option for players. Then there will be no lack of guys to beat up for either side. Either that, or there will be no distinction, just supers in general.
From last I saw on City of Heroes' website, at least when they first get it up and running, you can only play heroes. No villain play is planned.

[MarkusDark]

Correct. They "sort of" mentioned at an earlier date that IF a player shows INCREDIBLE roleplaying ability, a willingness to help others and increase the overall atmosphere of the game, then MAYBE they'll allow them to play a villian. The implication of it was that you are looking at least a year of incredible service before that would happen though.

Realize that for the simple Black and White of it - Villian = PKer. A character whose only purpose is to thwart the other players (heroes). And I think we have all had enough experience with them to know the dangers of it all...

[kirakane]

Well since I discussed this with Law Dog quite a bit being in the same group. I do admint Law Dog is right on the Supers Genre definitely not lending itself to the "kill things get more stuff" model that MMORPGs have stuck to so far.

CoH is suppose to be the first MMORPG with a dynamic/instatiated content system. So your group and only your group of up to 6-8 players go on a mission based scenario. You have mini-zone setup for you and you never have to see or interact/compete with "The Flying Knee" or the "Speen" if you don't want to. Given this things like traps and clever CRPG vignettes can be setup without having to worry about does this encounter work for 30-40 people storming the content.

For that reason alone I am thinking CoH might be worth the price of admission.

[Armitage]

I was just skimming a computer game magazine while waiting for a prescription to be filled...
Sony has apparently obtained the license for a MMORPG using the Marvel Universe.

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by Armitage
I was just skimming a computer game magazine while waiting for a prescription to be filled...
Sony has apparently obtained the license for a MMORPG using the Marvel Universe.

With the resurgance of the Marvel titles in the movies - can't blame them.

I will still be curious to see how it is handled though. With the dynamic system that kirakane mentions, it will still be a bit work intensive for the server and designers. If you have 6-8 people on a mission, that means that to ignore others that could possibly interfere, they will need to be in their own 'rooms'. When using low numbers of people online per server - let us say 1,000 per server - that means over 100 set of rooms PER senario. You could set things up so that a single senario runs the same rooms but only one group can enter at a time. However, that will require extensive testing and loophole techicians to make sure that the group does not find some way to interfere with future groups.

The trouble is that if you make too short, the players won't enjoy it. Too long and you run the risk of people not completeing/logging off. All of which can interfere even further with the scripting.

Players wanting to be 'villians' can find easy ways to screw with systems that designers haven't even had nightmares about.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Armitage
I was just skimming a computer game magazine while waiting for a prescription to be filled...
Sony has apparently obtained the license for a MMORPG using the Marvel Universe.
THat should be interesting. I wonder if it will help or kill CoH (Since CoH is moving slow, and Sony can probably afford to push a faster schedule)? I wonder if original concepts will be encouraged, or they will hand out 'various' Super Heroes of Marvel first come first serve?

[ParitySoul]

Well, this all bares an interesting question:

First a bit of info. COH has out the prerelease box. The game itself is due next month, but all pre-release buyers get to try out the late beta.

My question:

Who is actually getting in on this one?

[lemming]

Well, this all bares an interesting question:

First a bit of info. COH has out the prerelease box. The game itself is due next month, but all pre-release buyers get to try out the late beta.

My question:

Who is actually getting in on this one?
Well, one of the reasons you haven't seen Chromatic around too much...
It's looking like I might be the only one in my active group that's not. I'm waiting for the Linux port. ;)

[Lamrok]

THat should be interesting. I wonder if it will help or kill CoH (Since CoH is moving slow, and Sony can probably afford to push a faster schedule)? I wonder if original concepts will be encouraged, or they will hand out 'various' Super Heroes of Marvel first come first serve?

A lot of people, including a huge chunk of CoH players (judging by the comments I read on the CoH boards) loathe Sony Online, and are essentially refugees from Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies. I doubt very many of these people would be lured back to Sony. I know that it would take a huge enticement to make me consider one of their games.

[ParitySoul]

A lot of people, including a huge chunk of CoH players (judging by the comments I read on the CoH boards) loathe Sony Online, and are essentially refugees from Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies. I doubt very many of these people would be lured back to Sony. I know that it would take a huge enticement to make me consider one of their games.


Interesting. I'm getting a little Tired of SWG myself. Bout time I left it and went for COH I thought.

BTW: If your interested. Check out my COH Team page at:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/thedifference/

The Difference - Heroes! Not "Capes"!

Heh, I have like 5 different tag lines for that group. Already have some people from the COH website interested. I can't wait to found my team.

[TheEmerged]

A lot of people, including a huge chunk of CoH players (judging by the comments I read on the CoH boards) loathe Sony Online, and are essentially refugees from Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies. I doubt very many of these people would be lured back to Sony. I know that it would take a huge enticement to make me consider one of their games.

Well, if you'd played EQ during the bad ole' days when The Vision ruled the land, when their customer relations representative called us all liars and cheats, when their testing department kept insisting something wasn't broken when a ten-second test could have proven it was, when the guy that replaced the first CR rep said it was fun to be a victim... You'd kinda have it out for them too.

Not one of those examples is hyperbole or exageration, for the record. That's right, the man responsible for representing a gaming company to customers actually said it was fun to be a victim in a public forum. When called on it his explanation was that "for there to be heroes, there must be victims to be saved."

EQ is a LOT better than it used to be, especially with the dungeon instancing. Part of that is that the idiots responsible for those Bad Ole' Days are gone & forming a new company, and they've been replaced with people smart enough to say "Our customers want X? Maybe we should look into giving them X..."

[BlackSword]

There has been discussion on the CoH boards about how much RPing people will do. There is an obvious group that wants to be able to RP and thinks powergamesr are lusers, and then there are people who think RPers are snobs. :rolleyes: Same issue from every on-line game.

I plan on RPing as much as possible, but in the thick of it I expect to drop into more metagameing simply for expediency. (though I am thinking of binding some catch phrases to add flavor to combat) The fact that its a modern setting may aid in RPing, or at least cause metagame discussion to detract less from the game. Ultimately though if I am able to log on and have a fun game with my friends that will be more of a deciding factor then how much it encourages or discourages RP.

Just my 2c.

[Blue]

I've got a friend who works on Everquest and is almost as big a comic fan as I am. We've both been looking forward to this project for over two years. When it's out I'll definitely give it a try. These are some of the concerns of doing a supers game:

Moving in 3 Dimensions: MMORPGS don't typically allow for much upward movement. It's getting better though. Flying combat is a major convention of superheroic games and would be a noticable flaw if not achieved.

Camping Spawns: In EQ there are plenty of people sitting around waiting for the bad guys to appear. I'd hope there's a mechanism to keep the combat all story driven and not just the same bank being robbed every 3 minutes.

Online Gamers: Yes, I just insulted all of ya. My experience with EQ was that in beta testing there were a lot of dedicated people having fun and also roleplaying. My experience in "release" was that thousands of people were out of character (OOC), shouting stupid things across entire regions, begging people for a lift somewhere, etc. It so ruined the atmosphere that it felt more like a D&D powergame on steroids. I sincerely hope that people who play this game are there fore the achievement of defeating villainy, not because they want to be "level 50" with all the l3wt.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

I'm downloading it right now, or trying to. Pretty slow at times...

[Mayday]

While youre right about the old Vision, The game of EQ (Which I need to log in at in about 20 minutes, its team night) has been dumbed down to where any moron can level, and its almost impossible not to level even if you ARE stupid deaf dumb and in a coma.

Alot of things are better, but overall I think the game is worse than when I started, just after launch. Worse not in that its bad, but that it is (the cardinal sin) BORING.

CoH has the novelty of being a whole new genre and hopefully will retain that, as SWG did not.

And on the topic of Roleplay, you get what you give. There are roleplayers and roleplaying guilds out there. Filter out the morons and the LFGs and Auctions, all the bad habits people have learned from EQ. Dont read the post launch Forums, just play the game as it was meant to be, and make it your own little piece of heaven. Dont worry about what anyone else is doing.

[BlackSword]

Been reading quite a few threads on the City of Heroes posting boards. Granted, the boards are currently for pre-release buyers who are therefore are bigger fans (or true munchkins that want to know all the exploits). There are a lot of people mentioning Champions (and occasionaly a few other Superheroic games). So I think that currently there is a good core of people that are familar with table top role-playing, enjoy the supers genre and will try to make the most of it. Of course there will always be gamers who are at only to make the next level.

[TheEmerged]

While youre right about the old Vision, The game of EQ (Which I need to log in at in about 20 minutes, its team night) has been dumbed down to where any moron can level, and its almost impossible not to level even if you ARE stupid deaf dumb and in a coma.

Alot of things are better, but overall I think the game is worse than when I started, just after launch. Worse not in that its bad, but that it is (the cardinal sin) BORING.

CoH has the novelty of being a whole new genre and hopefully will retain that, as SWG did not.

And on the topic of Roleplay, you get what you give. There are roleplayers and roleplaying guilds out there. Filter out the morons and the LFGs and Auctions, all the bad habits people have learned from EQ. Dont read the post launch Forums, just play the game as it was meant to be, and make it your own little piece of heaven. Dont worry about what anyone else is doing.

There's two sides to that, Mayday. When you could invest the time, Vision-era EQ could be quite rewarding -- however this was primarily because you had the time to socialize and join a functioning guild, which in turn allowed you to avoid some of the time sinks.

However, speaking as a player that at varying stretches of time could play for ten hours a day and at others could just barely managed two hours at a time, the LDoN era is far superior if you can't invest the time. I can genuinely understand why some players don't like the teleports but there is a portion of the playerbase that will never be in a position to have a guaranteed group -- for whom pre-PoP sometimes involved spending over an hour getting a group, getting to the hunting area, etc etc...

[Mayday]

This is true. LDoN has been great. Its more PoP & Luclin that I disliked. If they took out the camp teleporting, and erased those other two Expansions (but kept the Bazaar) Id be perfectly happy. Well, not perfectly but happier.

Death no longer is a problem in EQ, travel is far too easy. I really hope CoH doesnt give in to the whining that will happen.

[loraxxx]

. . ." In his mind, his character is the greatest thing since loose-meat burger on toast with gravy and mashed potatoes--and who are we to argue?



loose-meat burger....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRL!! :idjit:

[Log-Man]

I just saw this thread title in the 'Similar Threads' list and thought it was an appropriate time to practice my necromancy :eg:

[Hermit]

I just saw this thread title in the 'Similar Threads' list and thought it was an appropriate time to practice my necromancy :eg:

You're a bad man

[archermoo]

You're a bad man

Yes. Yes he is. :)

[Kristopher]

I tried CoH/CoV.

At least in that case, it really didn't work.

[archermoo]

I tried CoH/CoV.

At least in that case, it really didn't work.

I played CoH for a while, but stopped playing before CoV came out. It was a lot of fun to start with, but eventually wasn't able to hold my interest. Though a fair number of people seem to continue to find it interesting enough to play regularly.

[FenrisUlf]

Hmm. Violent misfits with strange powers, weak rationales and forgettable names who're only interested in treasure?

They sound like supervillains to me...

Or Iron Age heroes of the Liefeld/Millar variety.

Ooh! A whole world as created by the team of Millar and Liefeld! Now who wouldn't want to see that!

[Cargus10]

CoH/CoV is the only MMORG I've cared to play - I tried WoW, and EQ, and Vanguard, and DnD Online. None did it. LOTR Online was...OK.

But CoH is just *fun*, and I don't have to camp spawns, or farm loot, or do PvP if I don't expressly want to.

[input.jack]

Ive been playing COH since it was in beta. I took a break to explore WOW, but eventually went back to COH.

Its not perfect, granted. But it has several features that appeal to me, such as those mentioned by Cargus, and the fact that of all th MMOs out there, it is the only one with Sidekicking / Exemplaring, where a character of a vastly different Level than the rest of the party can temporarily be "attached" to a member of the party's level, and act as though they were that Level. This allows new Characters to adventure with experienced ones, or maximum-Level characters to adventure with low level parties, and there are no balance issues. For people who level slowly (like me), or like a lot of "alts" (like many of my friends), it means we can always game together, regardless of the level spread that would prevent that in any other MMO.

I hope the Champions MMO has a similar system!

[archermoo]

CoH/CoV is the only MMORG I've cared to play - I tried WoW, and EQ, and Vanguard, and DnD Online. None did it. LOTR Online was...OK.

But CoH is just *fun*, and I don't have to camp spawns, or farm loot, or do PvP if I don't expressly want to.

Hmm. I've never had to camp spawns, farm loot, or do any PvP in WoW.

[archermoo]

Ive been playing COH since it was in beta. I took a break to explore WOW, but eventually went back to COH.

Its not perfect, granted. But it has several features that appeal to me, such as those mentioned by Cargus, and the fact that of all th MMOs out there, it is the only one with Sidekicking / Exemplaring, where a character of a vastly different Level than the rest of the party can temporarily be "attached" to a member of the party's level, and act as though they were that Level. This allows new Characters to adventure with experienced ones, or maximum-Level characters to adventure with low level parties, and there are no balance issues. For people who level slowly (like me), or like a lot of "alts" (like many of my friends), it means we can always game together, regardless of the level spread that would prevent that in any other MMO.

I hope the Champions MMO has a similar system!

That was something that I thought was interesting about CoH. It just overall lost my interest. But then again, I stopped playing before CoV even came out. Not that I have any interest in playing the V version. :) I like playing good guys. Just pointing out how long it has been since I played...

[Log-Man]

I played CoV for a while, and I still pick it up every few months. But I get bored after a month. It feels very repetitive, and the level of customization is minimal. (Powers, I mean. Obviously the visual customization level is incredible.)

I used to like WoW, but I've grown bored with it as well. I might go back to LotRO, that was fun. They all hit a level of repetitive motion after a while, though. Still, I have high hopes for COMMO.

[archermoo]

I played CoV for a while, and I still pick it up every few months. But I get bored after a month. It feels very repetitive, and the level of customization is minimal. (Powers, I mean. Obviously the visual customization level is incredible.)

I used to like WoW, but I've grown bored with it as well. I might go back to LotRO, that was fun. They all hit a level of repetitive motion after a while, though. Still, I have high hopes for COMMO.

I haven't gotten bored with WoW yet, but we'll see if that survives me hitting 70 with what it at least currently my only character. :) Prolly another couple of weeks, as I play pretty casually.

I also have high hopes for COMMO. :)

[Cargus10]

WoW turned me off for two reasons:

1. Cartoonish characters. I just loathe the WoW artwork style
2. The user community is not nearly what I'd come to expect from my experiences with CoH. Much less, um, mature, let's say.

[archermoo]

WoW turned me off for two reasons:

1. Cartoonish characters. I just loathe the WoW artwork style
2. The user community is not nearly what I'd come to expect from my experiences with CoH. Much less, um, mature, let's say.

Each to their own. I actually quite like the art in WoW. Liked it in CoH too for that matter. :)

And I've not really noticed much difference in levels of maturity between any of the MMOs I've played. But I in general don't group in any of them, so I wouldn't necessarily notice it. :)

[GreyGuardian]

Each to their own. I actually quite like the art in WoW. Liked it in CoH too for that matter. :)

And I've not really noticed much difference in levels of maturity between any of the MMOs I've played. But I in general don't group in any of them, so I wouldn't necessarily notice it. :)

Ah ha! City of X without grouping at all is painfully dull. In a good group it's much better... So is WoW for that matter but the difference between solo and group in WoW is less. Then again in WoW pick up groups almost always were awful to miserable. In CoH usually ok to excellent... It might be that I have better timing in City.

[archermoo]

Ah ha! City of X without grouping at all is painfully dull. In a good group it's much better... So is WoW for that matter but the difference between solo and group in WoW is less. Then again in WoW pick up groups almost always were awful to miserable. In CoH usually ok to excellent... It might be that I have better timing in City.

Can't argue with you about CoH, as I certainly stopped playing because it wasn't holding my interest. WoW on the other hand I've been enjoying a great deal, and with only a few exceptions I've leveled to 66th soloing the whole way.

[Enforcer84]

Well to original poster. It lasted...three years and counting. soo..
I am definately looking forward to CO, but I still have my COX account and spend a evening or two there still stomping about and making a nuisance of myself.

It's all relative. People will like what they will and dislike what they won't. ;)

[archermoo]

It's all relative. People will like what they will and dislike what they won't. ;)

That's deep. :)

[Enforcer84]

I'm a chasm of philosophical stuff.

[input.jack]

I'm a chasm of philosophical stuff.

So THATS what that is....


;P

[mayapuppies]

...it is the only one with Sidekicking / Exemplaring, where a character of a vastly different Level than the rest of the party can temporarily be "attached" to a member of the party's level, and act as though they were that Level. This allows new Characters to adventure with experienced ones, or maximum-Level characters to adventure with low level parties, and there are no balance issues. For people who level slowly (like me), or like a lot of "alts" (like many of my friends), it means we can always game together, regardless of the level spread that would prevent that in any other MMO.

I hope the Champions MMO has a similar system!
I'm still trying to figure out why MMO's implemented a level restriction in the first place. EQ started it with their zones (I believe) and it has never, ever made sense to me.

[bubba smith]

Or Iron Age heroes of the Liefeld/Millar variety.

Ooh! A whole world as created by the team of Millar and Liefeld! Now who wouldn't want to see that!
i don't think i'd care for that

[Egyptoid]

:(the interesting part about this thread is to note many of the people at the beginning of the thread who just don't post here anymore.


Perhaps they bought CoH and they've never logged out since...
:straight:

[Enforcer84]

They were haters. XD

[lemming]

Well, one of the reasons you haven't seen Chromatic around too much...
It's looking like I might be the only one in my active group that's not. I'm waiting for the Linux port. ;)

Heh. I think Chromatic & I are now the only people active now from the original group though there are still the people from Beta I play with.