Redefining Endurance thought

[Dead Boy]

From day one, back when I was first learning how to play Champions when I was 14 many, many eons ago, constantly accounting for and tracking expended Endurance points has always been a hassle and annoyance. These days I generally design my characters so from the ground up so it's less of an issue, but that's only me circumventing the issue. Upon reading Steve Long's manifesto if things he was considering changing for the 6th Edition, I was quite pleased to see that I wasn't alone in this. Still, despite my dislike of the characteristic, even I have to admit it does have its place.

So, instead of nixing the Endurance characteristic completely, I was thinking that it might better to just redefine it altogether.

Here's what I'm thinking. Instead of having powers use 1 pt. of End for every 5 pts. of active points in it, why not just have the use of a power for one action phase cost just 1 point of endurance? So if you use a power like an energy blast, that will cost you 1 pt. of End; if you use your flight power (half move or full), that's another point; if you have a force field active during that time, there's 1 more point of endurance for that phase; if you make a half-move, use an energy blast while your FF is active, those three powers will cost you three points of endurance for that phase. Basically, the idea is reduce it to simplicity in itself so it doesn't needlessly bog the game down more than it should.

As to the application of Reduced Endurance power advantages, I suggest using the time chart to shift the expenditure of each point from a phase to a turn (+1/4), to a minute (+1/2), to an hour (+3/4), and then jump to "indefinite" (+1), and ultimately "persistant" (+1-1/2) . So for example if a power has the +1/4 Reduced Endurance - Phase power advantage, if the power is continuous in nature, it only costs 1 pt. of endurance to use for the span of an entire Turn (12 segments). Should that power function as an action (like a general attack power) then the up-front expenditure of 1 pt. of endurance enables the character freely use that power for an entire Turn. Similarly, if a character has two attack powers, both with the +1/4 endurance advantage, then the character is free to use both powers interchangeably during that turn for the same 1 pt. of endurance.

Now since this redefinition of the Endurance characteristic would greatly change how useful each point is, consequently the cost for each point would have to go up from its present x1/2 cost multiple. I'm thinking x2 myself, mainly because though many attacks generally cost 4-6 endurance by the existing rules, not all expenditure of endurance always cost that much, such as movement which generally runs 2-3 pts. (again, under the existing rules). As for the redefined Endurance's base, if the decision is made to keep figured characteristics, I would be kind and make it equal to the character's Constitution. If figured characteristics are killed (I'm neutral on that issue, myself) then I'd suggest making the new starting base 10 points.

As for dealing with what to do when characters run out of Endurance, that's easy. For every 1 point expended beyond zero, they eat 1D6 straight to their Stun. And as for "pushing" attacks, I might consider giving the player the option of either spending +1 End pt. or accepting 1D6 directly to the Stun for every 10 active points added to the power (regardless of any existing Reduced Endurance power advantages).

Just a thought I felt the need to get out there. :)

[Volcilord]

When I played Champions back in the 1980's superheroes liked to have a speed of 7. Newer rules that allowed an Endurance Reserve for magic replaces the rules rape of plenty of daily charges in a multipower by having plenty of slots. Your reduced endurance advantage is for high speed characters to remove the need for an Endurance Reserve. Reduced END (pays END every turn only; +1/4). For movement with both running and flight sharing this advantage, only the maximum move in one phase is the END cost. END for movement with this advantage is paid on segment 12 before post-segment-12 recovery. An attack multipower with this advantage on the reserve can switch slots from phase to phase without spending more END.

[Klaus Mogensen]

i dislike this idea because END cost is one of the only thing that prevents high-SPD characters from becoming overpowered, particularly in high-powered campaigns where the cost of high SPD in itself is a small fraction of the total character cost.

- Klaus

[Dead Boy]

i dislike this idea because END cost is one of the only thing that prevents high-SPD characters from becoming overpowered, particularly in high-powered campaigns where the cost of high SPD in itself is a small fraction of the total character cost.

- Klaus

I see your point, but the problem isn't that current system is failing to put caps and limits on characters, but that the accounting is a drag on the gameplay itself.

In principle the idea that I'm pitching is that when a you buy a power for a character, the use of that power at full strength should count as a normal exertion or effort, as represented by 1 point of Endurance, regardless of how powerful or punny it may be in comparison to others. Hiking the price for the Endurance attribute compensates for lower number of points needed to fuel a power or ability. If each Endurance point costs 2 pts instead of just a half pt, high speed characters will still have the problem of being in danger of burning through their reserve in quick order.

Even so I admit, maybe that is a bit too simplistic in application. It may work better for the "normal exertion" of a power to cost a flat 2 points of Endurance. That way it would better cover the common use of half-moves for movement powers and instances when you don't want to blast away at full force, with such actions only costing 1 point. At that rate, high speed characters would be in even greater danger of burning through their Endurance if they don't regulate themselevs, hence solving that problem while still keeping the math requirements simple and strightforward.

As Vocilord pointed out, the real problem is the application and costing of the Reduced Endurance power advantage, (Endurance Reserves wouldn't be a problem if their pricing structures are changed accordingly). I still think using the time chart to regulate it isn't a bad idea, but perhaps it would be better if the cost structure were simplified as well so it better matches the general idea. Maybe charging a +1/2 for a flat rate of 1 End point for any use of a power (full strength or otherwise), +1 for 0 Endurance, and +1-1/2 for Persistant. That would do it; simple, to the point, but not too cheap.

[Steve Long]

Please don't start new threads for issues like these. Comments regarding Endurance should be posted either in the Characteristics thread or the Combat thread, depending on context. Thanx!