Altered Duplicates

[quozaxx]

I have a question about Altered Duplicates. Fist, let me reprint part of page 155 or 5th Edition Revised

Duplicates may have different abilities, personalities, equipment, memories, or Disadvantages than the base character if the base character buys Duplication with this Advantage. They can even have their own Duplication power separate from the one that created them.
For a +¼ Advantage, from 1-25% (ie up to one-fourth) of the Duplicate’s points can be spent differently (and/or one-forth of his Disadvantage points can differ). For +½, from 26-50% (ie up to half) of the Duplicate’s points can differ). For +1, 51-100% of the character’s points (and/or Disadvantage points) can differ. These percentages are guidelines, not absolutes, the GM may alter them as he sees fit.

OK, I realize that the +¼ and the +½ are only guidelines. But I was curious on how you’d interpret the 1-25% and the 26-50%. (Which is why I’m asking the discussion board instead of Steve Long personally)

For example:

If a base character has duplication and the duplicate doesn’t have duplication; is that enough difference to use the +¼ Advantage?

If a character has one personality flaw, but his duplicate has one different personality flaw (ie. Psychological Disadvantage); would the +¼ Advantage be used?

I think the most confusion I have is passing into the 26 to 50% range. How do you determine what 26 - 50% is exactly.

If the Powers, Characteristics, and Skill are all the same, but they have different special effects for the Powers; are they considered 26-50%?

If a character has 150 points in Disadvantages - with 3 Disadvantages being Psychological Limitations; but his duplicate (being same in every other way) has 3 Psychological Limitations that are all different (but everything else is the same). Would this be considered 26 - 50%? Note: In this example lets assume that the Limitations are 15 point Disadvantages each.

Would it be different if he has 4 Psychological Limitation Disadvantages?


You get the point. What are your thoughts on this?

[DocSamson]

Good question! Here is the way we handled it (long time GM who once had two players running Duplication in the same game).

1. Divide the Duplicate's points into two categories; "those that are spent identically to the base character" and, "those that are spent on something not identically to the base character".
2. If there is a question on which category the points go in, discuss it with the GM. For example: "The Base has a 60 STR but the Duplicate only has a 55 STR. Is STR spent differently? Answer: If the SFX are the same, then no, they are spent "the same". The Duplicate just spent less.
3. Calculate the percentage and match up the appropriate Advantage.

I hope this helps.

[TheQuestionMan]

Ixnay on the Copyright Infringement Ey.


For example:


If a base character has duplication and the duplicate doesn’t have duplication; is that enough difference to use the +¼ Advantage?
In my judgment, No.


If a character has one personality flaw, but his duplicate has one different personality flaw (ie. Psychological Disadvantage); would the +¼ Advantage be used?
Again, in my judgment, No.


I think the most confusion I have is passing into the 26 to 50% range. How do you determine what 26 - 50% is exactly.
Take the Base Cost, Minus the Duplication Cost, & then calculate the Percentage accordingly.

[quote]If the Powers, Characteristics, and Skill are all the same, but they have different special effects for the Powers; are they considered 26-50%?
No, different SFX are just icing on the cake.


If a character has 150 points in Disadvantages - with 3 Disadvantages being Psychological Limitations; but his duplicate (being same in every other way) has 3 Psychological Limitations that are all different (but everything else is the same). Would this be considered 26 - 50%? Note: In this example lets assume that the Limitations are 15 point Disadvantages each.
Hmmm..., I would say yes.


Would it be different if he has 4 Psychological Limitation Disadvantages?
It wouldn't make much difference to me.

You get the point. What are your thoughts on this?
I hope that helps, but ultimately the GM has final authority. He is the one who has to approve it.


Cheers


QM

[DocSamson]

I agree with Question on all counts but SFX. If you had two identical Duplicates except the Base Character used Fire attacks, Dupe #1 used Cold attacks, and Dupe #2 used Electricity, this would be an obvious advantage as the total character would "cover" more Vulnerabilities in combat.

[edit]
As an aside, the next discussion my group had after this point was, "How powerful can the attacks and defenses of each Duplicate be?"

[TheQuestionMan]

I agree with Question on all counts but SFX. If you had two identical Duplicates except the Base Character used Fire attacks, Dupe #1 used Cold attacks, and Dupe #2 used Electricity, this would be an obvious advantage as the total character would "cover" more Vulnerabilities in combat.
Well, some of them anyway, but I always liked the Archtypical Weakness.


Fire vs Water
Earth vs Air
Etc...


QM

[JackValhalla]

Actually, I'm staring at a build right now with Duplication, and I have a related question. I need a ruling, but I found the language in the book was a bit vague for me, and I could use feedback.

Presuming that Doc Samson's interpretation was correct, and that the dupe can spend less points without requiring the advantage. (60 STR vs 55 STR, per his example #2)

If the original character (350) has a 6d6 EB with +1 advantage, and has a duplicate built at half value (175), would you allow that dupe to have a 6d6 EB without the +1 advantage? My gut feeling is yes, but every time that I read the book and check the math, it does not give a definitive answer.

The +1 advantage in question is "usable by others, simultaneously", if you're interested. So, creating duplicates that have the same power is, somewhat, within special effect. He can use the EB and give it to his teammates, and he can create duplicates with the same EB. The player would like to buy the duplication without the advantage, if possible. This has been puzzling me for a week. The math is not straightforward, but I'd be inclined to allow it, given the special effect.

[DocSamson]

Actually, I'm staring at a build right now with Duplication, and I have a related question. I need a ruling, but I found the language in the book was a bit vague for me, and I could use feedback.

Presuming that Doc Samson's interpretation was correct, and that the dupe can spend less points without requiring the advantage. (60 STR vs 55 STR, per his example #2)

If the original character (350) has a 6d6 EB with +1 advantage, and has a duplicate built at half value (175), would you allow that dupe to have a 6d6 EB without the +1 advantage? My gut feeling is yes, but every time that I read the book and check the math, it does not give a definitive answer.

The +1 advantage in question is "usable by others, simultaneously", if you're interested. So, creating duplicates that have the same power is, somewhat, within special effect. He can use the EB and give it to his teammates, and he can create duplicates with the same EB. The player would like to buy the duplication without the advantage, if possible. This has been puzzling me for a week. The math is not straightforward, but I'd be inclined to allow it, given the special effect.
I would allow it in my games.