hero books

[hypnotica]

I love Hero Systems and the variety that you can work the system and i have to admit it i love d&d too. The one thing that really stands out in my mind as the thing that sets d&d apart from hero is books. Yep i dont know of any fantasy hero stories or champions stories or even star hero stories Steve your really missing a huge oppurtunity here. Wizards has books like the dragon lance and death gate novels and other smaller stories too but with the amount of character and story creation to create new and unheard worlds, and heroes and villains that Hero has its a wonder you havent had any one create books based upon characters in the hero universe. Are you going to allow books to be written if someone has a good story? I dont know how able you are to publish fantasy novels at this time or if thats something thats even been thought of? I think we have too many awesome players out there that you might even find the next margaret weis or tracy hickman. :D

[Dr Lucky]

I can't say I have anything useful to add to this topic, I was just suprised to see you are from Modesto. I've been trapped in Manteca all summer, and it's good to see other people in the area play HERO. Where do you guys play?

[hypnotica]

we were playing at a friends house just 3 of us i'm the gm but then work got to us and we stopped playing were starting up a new campaign soon and we havent found a place yet to play at maybe in turlock at another friends house not sure yet im still creating the world we will be doing fantasy hero in btw check out the post i made in the fantasy hero section titled MTG (btw thats been mostly played in riverbank/modesto)

[Polaris]

Greetings all,

I think that producing Hero stories would be a great idea.

I am unsure of the business side of such a venture, but speaking from a consumer's perspective I would love to purchase Hero novels. It helps bring the official setting world alive for players.

If this is done, I would like to suggest that each novel have the main character made up in Hero. I have often thought it would be a good idea to do this with the Forgotten Realms novels (make up the main character or two in D&D so we can get a feel of how you would make such a character in your own game).

Polaris

[Ron]

Wizards of the Coast book division do pretty well in the book business. However, D&D is a much stronger brandmark than Hero, which helps them to sell the books. Also, they have acess to a much wider distribution channel, as they can place their products in bookstores in all US. Perhaps it would be wiser to Hero follow Eden Studios strategy, who have released short-stories anthologies based in their games in the game market.

Right now, Hero has developed the Terran Empire and the Champions Universe settings. Terran Empire is too new to have much brand recognition, but James Cambias has some experience as a short-stories writer. Champions has some brand mark recognition and comics were published in the past but I'm not sure about the results. It would be curious to determine the average age of Champions players (not young, I believe) and see if the comics were apropriated to that age (I've never seen them).

[SCUBA Hero]

Reprint the six issues of the Champions comics by Eclipse?

(ducks)

[Koshka]

Originally posted by Ron
It would be curious to determine the average age of Champions players (not young, I believe) and see if the comics were apropriated to that age (I've never seen them).

I quit reading the miniseries when the author decided to gang-rape one of the female heroes. Does that tell you anything about appropriateness?

I wouldn't mind seeing good Hero fiction, but I have no idea how one would go about setting this up.

[SCUBA Hero]

Originally posted by Ron
It would be curious to determine the average age of Champions players (not young, I believe)
There was a thread on the old boards and a poll on this one on that very subject.

Average age centered around early to mid 30's, with a pretty strong bell curve shape.

Of course, that only covers Hero gamers who are on the boards and responded to the threads, so don't read too much into it.

I don't know if any better info exists. My personal experience is that the thirty and older crowd tends more toward role-playing and the twenty-five and under tends more towards CCGs. Although that may be skewed based on my age (35) as well. . .

Anyone know of better statistics on gamers (Hero or in general)?

[Blue]

The main problems revolve around... Resources. With a release schedule to meet, you'd have to find a way to squeeze in more work. Branding. As pointed out above, "Champions" and "Hero" are a niche market. Rlease of fiction would be kind of risky in a very large, very flooded market of fiction. Time. I can't imagine that Steve has time to edit yet another thing.

[Ron]

Originally posted by Koshka
I quit reading the miniseries when the author decided to gang-rape one of the female heroes. Does that tell you anything about appropriateness?

I wouldn't mind seeing good Hero fiction, but I have no idea how one would go about setting this up.

I have no problem with strong adult themes, such as gang-rape, as long as it is relevant to the advancement of the plot or to add depth to a character and it is handled in a mature way. What I do hate is mindless violence and abuse placed only to shock readers, which is just tasteless. As I had not read the mini-series, I cannot coment on the appropriateness of their material.

[Derek Hiemforth]

If Hero Games were to decide to do something with fiction, I'd be be kinda nervous, and hope they were really careful. As I understand it, TSR's mishandling of their fiction lines is the main thing that killed them and allowed WotC to buy them out. To be frank, I don't know of a single person who started playing D&D because they read a D&D-related novel. I think those novels exist to entertain and market to the D&D fan base rather than to expand it. Hero doesn't have a large enough fan base to make novels possible (or at least, I doubt they do), and I'm really skeptical that such novels would be a good recruiting tool for new Hero Games players.

Just my .02. YMMV. :)

[Steve Long]

We have no plans for fiction related to any of our existing game lines at this time. Our publishing resources are limited, so we prefer to concentrate on our main strength: RPGs.

[Starwolf]

Steve.....If an author was to write such a novel...assuming it was well written, good plot, etc. would you consider allowing the author to purchase/use a Hero lisence and then independantly submit their "Hero based" novel to an outside publisher? This would allow Hero based novels without putting a strain on Hero resources, it would increase Hero exposure to the public, and it would increase Hero Games treasure coffers via lisence fees and possibly royalties.....

Any thoughts?:)

[Polaris]

Derek,

My wife actually got into D&D based upon the Forgotten Realms novel. I probably would not have tried fantasy role playing if it wasn't for the Forgotten Realms novels.

I know this does not disprove your main point... and I suspect we are in a VERY small minority of gamers.

Starwolf: One possible complication is that many publishers want some rights to the characters and world of the books they publish. It would be very difficult to get an outside publication deal (other than self-publication, or something similar) without being able to give up some rights to the characters (which obviously DOJ would not want to do). Also, even if DOJ approved the manuscript originally, the publishers might want some rather significant changes. Trying to negotiate a manuscript that is agreeable to both DOJ and the publisher might be difficult. I certainly do not mean to sound negative (as I read this, it kinda sounds like I am), just pointing out a few possible challenges ahead for an author that would want to try it.

Polaris

[Steve Long]

Steve.....If an author was to write such a novel...assuming it was well written, good plot, etc. would you consider allowing the author to purchase/use a Hero lisence and then independantly submit their "Hero based" novel to an outside publisher? This would allow Hero based novels without putting a strain on Hero resources, it would increase Hero exposure to the public, and it would increase Hero Games treasure coffers via lisence fees and possibly royalties.....

Nope, 'fraid not. Assuming anyone were to publish Hero-related fiction, we'd want it to be us. Polaris's post hints at just some of the problems involved...

...and in any event, creating a novel that I consider "well written" and "good" is likely to be mighty difficult. I'm sure more than one person here on the boards can testify to my pickiness re: genre books, movies, etc. ;) Heck, I was once put on a panel at a con specifically because of my well-known dislike of a certain to-be-completed-this-December licensed trilogy o' movies that shall remain nameless. ;)

[Sketchpad]

Hmm ... what about having a serial in DH?

[hypnotica]

what about having a thread on one of these discussion boards with short stories to see how well some of our readers can write. From what I've seen we have some really talented players in the hero community. The hero community knows some of the main line characters like Dr. Destroyer, The Brick, The Zodiac Conspiracy, members of PSI, Eurostar etc.. but i don't think the other genre's like star hero or fantasy hero have core characters that have quite the same amount of exposure. Would that be possible to see short stories involving hero core characters or even non core characters? ps go to my other thread in fantasy hero on MTG (plug plug) :D

[Nato]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Heck, I was once put on a panel at a con specifically because of my well-known dislike of a certain to-be-completed-this-December licensed trilogy o' movies that shall remain nameless. ;)

You mean the greatest series of fantasy movies ever?

[Darren Watts]

We'd rather not have people start posting entire short stories on the boards, as we have to pay for all this bandwidth. Submissions of short fiction for Digital Hero would be at least considered, if they were good. Dave M. would have the final say on that. Honestly, though, we're a game company, not a fiction publisher, and we don't have the time or expertise at this point to concentrate on anything other than making Hero a successful *game publishing* company. dw

[hypnotica]

would it be ok if i started a website and devoted it to short stories of hero characters core or player created?

[Steve Long]

If you follow our standard policies and such for websites, I don't think we'd mind.

[hypnotica]

What are the standard policies or where will I find them so i can puruse them at my leisure :)

[hypnotica]

Never Mind i found it ( it does pay to read the website from time to time or i might miss out on the BIG WHITE "POLICIES" link huh) .. (doh!!!!)

[Polaris]

Steve: Do you not like the LoTR books, or just the movie adaptation of those books?

DW: I can definitely understand the desire to focus on games rather than getting into fiction. I think such books would be cool as a customer, but would not know all the business aspects of such an endeavor. I would imagine it would be difficult.

Hypnotica: Would you be looking to take submissions of short stories, or would your website mostly be of your own writings?

Polaris

[Steve Long]

Steve: Do you not like the LoTR books, or just the movie adaptation of those books?

I think the books are magnificent, towering triumphs of Fantasy literature; they rank as some of my favorite writing ever.

I think the movies are wretched piles of utter badness. The only thing good about them is the background scenery. New Zealand should win an Oscar for Best Landscapes In A Crap Fantasy Movie. ;)

[hypnotica]

I am willing to take any submissions of short stories, I would have some guidelines for the stories themselves but anyone would be welcome to add their artistic endeaver to the process. Let me get the website up and running first and then if anyone is interested in posting short stories i will gladly post them.

[hypnotica]

Steve im curious what are some of the things you find so awful about the movie? i thought they were fantastic i was rivetted to my seat the first movie i saw 10 times when it was in theatres. the second i saw once ( not as much time this year as last to watch movies) Are you basing your opinion on reading the book first then seeing the adaptation of the movie or ??? I have heard that about alot of movies that were based on books for instance dream catcher by steven king i heard from those whove seen the movie and have also read the book that it was awful comparing it to the book but they have also said that a stand alone movie it was done well so im just curious where your coming from on this thats all :)

[Steve Long]

This really isn't an appropriate forum for discussing movies, so I'm going to answer briefly and then say nothing more. ;)

1. The failure to follow the written storyline, and even worse, the introduction of changes to the plot and characters that are not only unnecessary, but actively detrimental to the story.

2. The failure to portray most, if not all, of the characters with any degree of accuracy or appreciation for their natures/role in the story. This also includes a number of cases of poor casting (though to be fair there's quite a bit of good casting as well).

3. The introduction into Middle-earth of elements that manifestly do not belong there (e.g., telekinetic duels between wizards) -- and, in general, an utter failure on the part of the makers of the movie to understand the feel, ambience, and nature of Tolkien's work. They have taken the sublime and with rough and violent hands dragged it down to the level of the mediocre.

4. Poor visualization of many characters and other elements, including the making of unnecessary visual changes solely to differentiate various characters to make them easier for moviegoers to distinguish.

I've often heard my criticisms dismissed with the old chestnut "movies are different from books; what works in one sometimes has to be changed for the other." I consider that statement at least borderline nonsensical, but even to the extent one accepts it as true, the changes made in converting the books into movies were excessive, badly handled, and often pointless/unnecessary.

That's it in a nutshell. Enough ranting; time to go back to creating monsters 'n' stuff. ;)

[Nevenall]

I would agree with all of Mr. Long's points and add one of my own, which is "modernizing" Tolkien's beautiful and archaic dialog. That alone removes the magic for me.

Oh yeah, I almost forget...

DWARVES DESERVE TO BE MORE THEN COMIC RELIEF!

My apologies to those who liked the movies, and those who want to keep the discussion on topic.

[Toadmaster]

I can understand disappointment with the movies but crap seems a bit harsh, I have seen the D&D movie and it is not the worst fantasy movie out there, but there is no comparison to the LotR movies. I guess it depends on your expectation and experiences. Besides if they had been perfection then nobody would make another one.

[rayoman]

Well...CRAP is a little too harsh.

However, LotR movies are good movies.

The DnD movie was not the worst fantasy movie ever. I can name 5 that were worse.



Originally posted by Toadmaster
I can understand disappointment with the movies but crap seems a bit harsh, I have seen the D&D movie and it is not the worst fantasy movie out there, but there is no comparison to the LotR movies. I guess it depends on your expectation and experiences. Besides if they had been perfection then nobody would make another one.