Seven gods

[Balok]

I'm toying with a campaign in which magic comes from the gods -- but not in the "D&D" way. What happens is, you must satisfy some requirement of a god, and if you do, he teaches you a spell. It might be one you ask for, or it might be one he thinks you should learn. However, once you learn the spell, it's yours. You don't have to pray to recover it; you cast it normally as your END permits.

To further complicate things, the gods have an agreement: no god will grant a magician more than a single spell until *all* the gods have granted him one.

I'm thinking seven gods, and I have some ideas for what spheres of influence each should have. But as you might guess, some are opposed by others. (Why seven? In the immortal words of J. Belushi ... "why not?")

What I'm asking for with this thread are some ideas about what spheres of influence the gods should have.

[Citizen Keen]

Earth (Protection, Stability, Fall, Mountains)

Fire (Emotion, Oaths, Summer, Deserts)

Air (Cold, Illusion, Transportation, Luck, Winter, Sky)

Water (Time, Knolwedge, Secrets, Spring, Oceans and Rivers)

Void (Chaos, Inspiration, Creativity, Destruction)

Good (Healing, Justice, Balance)

Evil (Darkness, blah blah blah)




This is a similar 7 gods to my new system. Mine has the first five (who are active) and a slightly distant father god who is good by day and evil by night.

[Old Man]

There's seven gods in the Game of Thrones trilogy-- Father, Mother, Warrior, Smith, Maid, Crone, and Stranger.

Curse of Chalion by Bujold lists five gods, four associated with the seasons (the Father of Winter, the Mother of Summer, the Son of Autumn, and the Daughter of Spring), and one god who governs events out of time (the Bastard). Shouldn't be too hard to extend to seven.

Both of these have similar divisions of labor, as it were. The Father tends to be about protection, the Mother about harvests and health, the Maid/Daughter about love and innocence, etc. The Bastard/Stranger is the god who is not worshipped except by 'lost souls', i.e. thieves and wanderers.

[McCoy]

OK, take the traditional Western elements; Air, Earth, Fire and Water.

Intersect with the Oriental ones; Earth, Fire, Metal, Water and Wood.

Change "Wood" to "Nature," give that one the animals as well as the plants.

Add the Trickster.

Air
Earth
Fire
Metal
Nature
Trickster
Water

The Metal God would have dominion over all technology and fabricated objects, even those fabricated from non-metalic substances, clay pots, reed baskets, wooden houses. Slight rivalry with the Earth Goddess, who sees Him as taking her substances and making them His own. More serious rivalry with the Nature Goddess, the Yang to His Yin, His opposite on the Natural/Fabricated spectrum. He has an affinity for the Fire God, his partner in refining metal and fireing clay.
Relationship with the Air and Water Dieties would depend on how common such things as windmills, water wheels, and (most important) sailboats are in your world.

Three natural spectrums, Air/Earth, Fire/Water, Metal/Nature, Trickster is outside their order.

Going to suggest that Air, Fire, and Metal are Gods; Earth, Water and Nature Godesses; and the Trickster a Diety of no fixed gender, male or female as occasion demands.

That was easier than I thought it would be.

[pinecone]

McCoy cool job...I've used a diety simular to the Metal god (named Ozzy?) That I've always dubbed "The forge god" This is a common diety such as Vulcan or weiland (sp?) if you can find a cheap copy Rune quest has a big section on creating patheons (Avalon hill era) and D&D had a suplimate called something like Compleat preist that is in my local library so that is a no cost option if your local has one....

[McCoy]

pinecone, thank you. I usually use the 12 archtypes from Runequest. They may be helpful, I'll list them for others.

Agricultural Goddess
Earth Goddess
Hunting God
Moon Goddess
Night Goddess
Ruling Deity
Sea God
Storm God
Sun God
Trickster
Underworld God
War God

Some of these can be combined in one individual, Zeus for example is both Ruling Diety and Storm God.

Suggested cobinations to get 12 down to 7.

Agricultural Goddess + Earth Goddess
Hunting God + War God
Moon Goddess + Night Goddess
Ruling Deity + Sun God
Sea God + Storm God
Trickster
Underworld God

Details would vary with culture. For this I assumed an agrarian costal civilization, dependant on the Sun and Earth for sustance, where storms normally come in from the sea.

A more hunter-gatherer culture might combine Hunting God and Trickster, admiring the ability to outsmart the game animals, and combine the Underworld God with the War God. A civilization dependent on fishing or their merchant fleet may make the Sea God the Ruling Diety.

[pinecone]

Thanx for posting the list,I've always thought that the combo's and ranking says a lot about the culture. For example one of the slavic patheons has a Sun goddess/Ruling diety married to a Moon god/War god...I'm guessing that night time raids played a large role in their war plans....It is also evecative of the Phaeroe as Moon bull/consort of the sky goddess of the egyptions. I would think that patraliniel societys choose male Ruling dietys and matraliniels choose Female ruling dietys, even if they later adopt a differant way of doing things. I've almost always choen a group as being a "storm people" or a "sun people" as almost always the Ruler is either a Sun or a Storm diety (I include Sky as a subset of Storm)Though I suppose that is and indoeuropean centric way of thinking....

[PhilFleischmann]

Seven gods suggests to me the seven planets of historical astrology. Here are the seven planet-related cards from Everway, a rather wierd RPG, which I own but have never played (WOTC was selling it for $5 at the time! It's definitely worth that just as a source of different ideas.):

Priestess: Moon, Understanding Mysteries
Hermit: Mercury, Wisdom, Isolation
Peasant: Venus, Simple Strength
Fool: Sun, Freedom
Smith: Mars, Productivity
King: Jupiter, Authority
Soldier: Saturn, Duty

I find the same old earth-air-fire-water gods to be somewhat trite and overdone. Of course there can always be exceptions, new interpretations, etc.

[Jeff]

Real-world pantheons tend to orient around the things people care about, more than the things that compose the universe. If you'd like to avoid elemental deities, especially when there aren't many of them, here's another breakdown:

Life - including healing, agriculture, fertility, possibly wild flora and fauna
Death - self-explanatory
Nature - earth, air, fire, water, metal, weather, possibly wild flora and fauna
Love - including simple affection, love of all kinds, and social bonds
Zeal - including passion, war, duty
Laughter - including humor of whatever sort, pranks, and maybe alternate perspectives
Luck - self-explanatory

Mind you, if you're looking at pantheons from the point of view of spell providers, you might want to line them up with elements instead, since they're probably easier to use as the basis of spells. You might not get too far with (e.g.) Laughter magic. Then again, maybe some of those are spells without game-mechanical effects at 0 EP cost, but still something a character has to work to get in-game and a source of roleplaying goodness.

[Crimson Arrow]

With only seven, you'll need to double/treble up a bit.

Sky/Lightning/Thunder

Earth/Agriculture/Animals

Water/Rivers/Oceans and Seas

Sun/Light/Fire

Moon/Magic/Mind

Love/Beauty/The Arts

Death/Darkness/The Void

It could be that the gods are revealed as different sexes in different aspects. For example the God of the Sky has a son called Thunder and a daughter, Lightning. These are avatars but also merely aspects of the central deity

I'd suggest Sky, Sun and Death as male, Earth, Water and Moon as female and Love as androgynous (a little like how Hermes is sometimes portrayed). Alternatively, perhaps there is a missing god, of whom no one will speak, a destroyer, betrayer and trickster god (just to even up the sexes, but could provide all sorts of plot ideas).

[McCoy]

Balok? Been a while. Going to post your seven?

[cutsleeve]

i never liked the idea of the traditional rpg gods to much theyve been dont to death. always attempt to push some originality into them. The main problem with the gods is that they always seem aproached in the method of "man creates Gods" if the Gods truly exsist in your universe they where not created by man. They might work with man or watch over him but most gods wouldnt care about such things as wars or laws or abstracts like good and evil also they might not even be related absolutely to things like earth fire wind water which they may veiw as their creation merely tools. so heres a new take.

Bafjier: The first harmony. watcher of times and seasons.
Takrix: The second harmony. keeper of beginnings and endings.
Malshoru: The third harmony. the steward of change.
Harhirha: The fourth harmony. The weaver of paterns.
Gorgisha: The rythm. The shaper of things new.
Rabakiir: The chorus. The memory of things which are old.
Zi: The first Note. The child of all and lord of the heavens.

I guess thats all 7 gods. :D

[Madstone]

When you said seven I immediately thought of the Piers Anthony's incarnations:

Death
Time
War
Fate
Nature
Evil
Good

[CorpCommander]

Hmm if you want really wierd Gods how about these:

Primary Order Gods:
First Order: God of Gravitational Forces (a God that affects everyone)
Second Order: God of Weak Forces (a God that maintains Chaos over Order, Decay)
Third Order: God of Strong Forces (a God that that maintains Order over Chaos, Stability)
Forth Order: God of Electromagnitism (a God of Light and information)

Secondary Order Gods:
1st Minor God of Dimention
2nd Minor God of Time
3rd Minor God of Unity (who tries to unite all the Gods)

If Unity were to ever succeed then that God would become the ruler of all the other Gods.

Enjoy!

[Killer Shrike]

Just making these up as I type, but:

Vawoh: All Father, God of Magic, Creation, Order, Power, Force, Initiative, Inspiration, Leadership

Reha: The Great Mother, Godess of Nurturing, Health, Time, Acceptance, Patience, Guidance

Their children:
Advar: First Son, God of Duty, Honor, Fortification, Dependibility, Competence, Structure, Implementation, Knowing Ones Place, Social Order, Law, Justice, Fairness

Anria: First Daugther, Godess of the Hearth, Comfort, Homemaking, Provender, Agriculture, Good Fortune, Lineage, Family, Unity, Love

Uria: Godess of Moon and Tide, Sea and Storm, Water and Rain, Death and Darkness, Pettyness, Beauty, Vanity, Spite, Unreasoning Hatred, Chance, Randomness, Unpredictibility, Mysteries, the Unknown

Unvar: God of Striving, Enterprise, Acceptance Seeking, Overacheiving, Ambition, Greed, Hubris, Mercantilism, Politics, Deceit, Material Wealth

Ehvar: Youngest Son, God of Impetuousness, Risk-taking, Conflict, Temper, Agression, Strength, Present, Conflict, Bravery, Boldness, Rashness, Destruction, Anger, Weaponcrafting

[Madstone]

Originally posted by CorpCommander
Hmm if you want really wierd Gods how about these...

Commander, these are great gods! I'm not running a game right now, but as a cosmology buff, I just might have to do something with this anyway.

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Crisis
Commander, these are great gods! I'm not running a game right now, but as a cosmology buff, I just might have to do something with this anyway.

Thanks, I originally did it as a joke but I've been thinking about it all day. Perhaps they would be good for a Post-Apocalyptic game. I am reading "The Elegant Universe" and that was what prompted me to write them up.

Let me know if you want help writing them up. :)

[PhilFleischmann]

You could also just pick any seven things you happen to like and see where it goes from there. Who says every natural phenomenon has to have a god? Let's pick a few random things for example:

Rats
The Crescent Moon
Chocolate
Mount Gomorinchus
Marketplaces
Gryphons
Opals

What would the god of rats be like? What other concepts/phenomena/values might he be associated with? Stealth, thievery, decay, hunger, disease, fear, cowardice, prolificity, timidity, humility, are a few that come to mind. The god of rats may be worshipped as a personification of any of these, perhaps all, perhaps only a few.
The god of Mount Gomorinchus (located on the east cost of Temna) could be associated with anything that the Temnans connect with that particular mountain. He may or may not be the god of all mountains. Maybe it's a fertility goddess because of the rain water that runs down the slopes and onto the farmlands of Temna. Maybe it's a god of navigation as the mountain is visible from a long way out to sea. Maybe a god of the stars and the heavens as the mountain appears to be reaching up to the sky.
The crescent moon may imply either or both growth or decline, thing beginning or coming to an end, incompletenes, darkness. Perhaps the crescent shape suggests a smile, and so this might be a god of laughter and happiness. Of course it could also be a frown. Note that this might not be a god of the moon in general, only the crescent moon. Other phases of the moon may not have any gods attached.
The god of marketplaces might teach greed or honesty or travel or knowledge or storytelling or craftsmanship...

etc...

[Chuckg]

One of the best posts I ever saw on the SJGames Pyramid boards was a guy who did a 'seven gods' pantheon...

... based on the JLA's "Big Seven".

(Obviously he changed the names, but as I can't remember all of the names of the deities he used, I'll just put in the names)

Superman (Rao) -- The "sun god" figure, patron of valor, righteous war, justice

Batman (unknown) -- Vigilance, law, and vengeance (and yes, that's an odd mix, but so's he)

Wonder Woman (unknown) -- Truth, mercy, honor

Martian Manhunter (unknown) -- Knowledge, secrets, wisdom

Green Lantern (The Green Wizard) -- magic, energy

Flash (Swift Allen) -- Speed, travel, the messenger of the gods

Aquaman (Orin) -- God of the seas, weather, etc.


The real hoot was the evil deity pantheon based on Lex Luthor, the Joker, Circe, Sinestro, Black Manta, and I forget the other two. (wishes he could find that old post)

[bloomann]

Here some ideas

archtypes as deities:

Noble
Warrior
Wiseman
Dreamer
Hunter
Trickster
Exile

[bloomann]

oh yeah here's the other idea I had
using the seven deadly sins as gods, or er they are good by day, use their opposites and deadly by night (great idea i'm using from other post above)

duh, having baby tooth pain crying mental collapse must go help the baby ....

[AnotherSkip]

Erm a few notes, IIRC there are seven gods....

this is a writeup for a barbarian tribe that was on the verge of true specialization.

Cydar, the Beastman God of Hunting and the Beasts Cydar is eternally maried to Illunadriel, the Goddess of herding and gathering. This goddess who is traditionally supportive of the tribal gatherers has as her domains often the domestic and gathering/herbalistic side of tribal life.
Cydar is friendly and respects the other gods of the pantheon he is a part of and from that respect he may not participate in certain other aspects of life. Cydar's priests may not blacksmith out of respect for Der the God of blacksmiths (though he may recieve gifts from him in the form of metal hunting tools such as arrowheads and spear tips). a Priest may not gather plants out of respect for Illunadriel though he may eat the plant foods gathered by others. He may not build ships though he may hunt the beasts of the sea fields in them or not out of respect for Glamdrun, Rider of the Waves. He may not read the future in the stars for that is the province of the Star Eyed Lord, though he may benefit by those readings and determine where the beasts are in the fields. And he may not tread the path of Miskune, Guardian of the Depths but he may travel with others who do so.

[Gary Ciaramella]

Originally posted by Chuckg
One of the best posts I ever saw on the SJGames Pyramid boards was a guy who did a 'seven gods' pantheon...

... based on the JLA's "Big Seven".

(Obviously he changed the names, but as I can't remember all of the names of the deities he used, I'll just put in the names)

Superman (Rao) -- The "sun god" figure, patron of valor, righteous war, justice

Batman (unknown) -- Vigilance, law, and vengeance (and yes, that's an odd mix, but so's he)

Wonder Woman (unknown) -- Truth, mercy, honor

Martian Manhunter (unknown) -- Knowledge, secrets, wisdom

Green Lantern (The Green Wizard) -- magic, energy

Flash (Swift Allen) -- Speed, travel, the messenger of the gods

Aquaman (Orin) -- God of the seas, weather, etc.


The real hoot was the evil deity pantheon based on Lex Luthor, the Joker, Circe, Sinestro, Black Manta, and I forget the other two. (wishes he could find that old post)

I stumbled across the following on the web after doing a search for JLA pantheon... The JLA Pantheon (http://captain.custard.org/classic/pantheon.html) It really does make me think about the concept of superheroes being the modern mythology...

[Fuzzy Gnome]

"Do you three boys take these four girls to be your seven gods?"

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Chuckg
One of the best posts I ever saw on the SJGames Pyramid boards was a guy who did a 'seven gods' pantheon...

... based on the JLA's "Big Seven".
Humm, how would the Runequest archtypes intersect with the animated Justice League?

Superman: Ruling Deity, Sun God

Batman: Night God, Hunting God, Underworld God

Hawkgirl: Moon Goddess, War Goddess

Martian Manhunter: Trickster (some may say Flash, but this seems to go with the shapeshifting, disguise, and other powers. Plus I like the irony of a Trickster with no sense of humor.)


The others are harder. None of them seem to have a connection with Agriculture. Wonder Woman could be earth, because of her golem-like origin, sea, being born on an island, or even storm, because she flies.

Let's give Earth to the Flash, one of the two non-flying Leaguers, the one who spends the most time in contact with the ground. (Yes, I realize it's a strech.)

Flash: Earth God

Green Lantern. Agriculture, purely from the color. Storm, for flying and the lightning-like energy blast.

Green Lantern: Agricultural God, Storm God

Which leaves

Wonder Woman: Sea Goddess

Comments anyone?

[shinrin]

Vawoh: All Father, God of Magic, Creation, Order, Power, Force, Initiative, Inspiration, Leadership

Reha: The Great Mother, Godess of Nurturing, Health, Time, Acceptance, Patience, Guidance

Their children:
Advar: First Son, God of Duty, Honor, Fortification, Dependibility, Competence, Structure, Implementation, Knowing Ones Place, Social Order, Law, Justice, Fairness

Anria: First Daugther, Godess of the Hearth, Comfort, Homemaking, Provender, Agriculture, Good Fortune, Lineage, Family, Unity, Love

Uria: Godess of Moon and Tide, Sea and Storm, Water and Rain, Death and Darkness, Pettyness, Beauty, Vanity, Spite, Unreasoning Hatred, Chance, Randomness, Unpredictibility, Mysteries, the Unknown

Unvar: God of Striving, Enterprise, Acceptance Seeking, Overacheiving, Ambition, Greed, Hubris, Mercantilism, Politics, Deceit, Material Wealth

Ehvar: Youngest Son, God of Impetuousness, Risk-taking, Conflict, Temper, Agression, Strength, Present, Conflict, Bravery, Boldness, Rashness, Destruction, Anger, Weaponcrafting]

I like these Gods. I can see that Advar and Ehvar are going to have some rivalry right off the bat.

Anyways, I know that the original topic was for 7 Gods in a campaign, but it does beg to question about any non-human races in the world. Certainly, the Dwarves and Elves etc., would have their own pantheon of gods. Unless the Earth God/dess created and is worshipped by the Dwarves and the Nature God/dess created and is worshipped by the Elves etc., but somehow that doesn't seem to wash well.

[CorpCommander]

I started to create a new campaign based on a post-apocalyptic story line. I recently came to the conclusion that all the old religions would have been pretty much wiped out and that the survivors would have started to invent a new religion. The question is, would they maintain a single God or construct a pantheon? Game wise what would be more fun?

The major tenents of the religion are luck and survival.

The players have emerged from long sleep in cryogenic statis deep in their protected vault. They are returning to the world to bring back order and civilization. For many reasons they are dispised. Not the least of which in that they represent a very unlucky culture that needs to be wiped out, according to the church leaders of the new religion.

[Markdoc]

It's actually a pretty crappy book, but Roger Zelazny (and someone else) wrote a book called Deus Irae (the god of wrath and a pun on the classical name for the apocalypse).

In that book he had a kind of warped Christian church that worshipped the God of Wrath - personified as the US Air Force commander who started the nuclear war.

If civilisation has been wiped out by some kind of cataclysm, you would kind of expect that to have an effect on people's beliefs.

A Christian church might adopt to the idea that the day of judgement had finally arrived - that the people left on earth were the abandoned sinners, with one last chance to make good - or they could go the other way saying that the evil had been judged and the blessed had now inherited the earth (meaning everyone else has to leave). You might have churches that say either thing, leading to some nice heretic burnings :)

You've already got a few survivalist wackos prowling the woods in the States, some of whom are white supremacist with quasi-viking leanings. I can just see them lurking about in their camo-painted Chainmail considering themselves the chosen who have survived Ragnarok and carving the occasional blood-eagle on those christians they could catch.

Make up a couple of religions based on "making sure the bad thing never happens again" by propitiating the god or gods responsible (I'd file the serial numbers off the Aztec gods and use them - they seem sufficiently bloodthirsty) and you should be good to go.

You can always add more obscure cults as you go along, once you have mapped out the main religions.

Cheers, Mark

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Markdoc
It's actually a pretty crappy book, but Roger Zelazny (and someone else) wrote a book called Deus Irae (the god of wrath and a pun on the classical name for the apocalypse).


That would be Phillip K. Dick. The book reads like most of the writing was done by Dick before he died and Zelazny filled in the holes since it wasn't finished. It wasn't the tightest book that Dick ever worked on but it had a lot of his halmark touch. Dick wrote the book that became Bladerunner. Oddly, I usually believe that the book is better than the movie but in this case the movie is better than the book.

I will definitely have to work on the various tribes and cults. Thanks!

Pete

[Markdoc]

>>> That would be Phillip K. Dick. <<<

Yeah - dat's da man! It must be 20 years since I read it and my memory is getting a bit flaky with age :(

But I remember being disappointed since I am/was a fan of both authors (although Zelazny in particular has written a few books that were obviously inspired by a desire to cover the rent rather than tell a story).

Still, its all useful source material.

On a more useful note, the flavour is very different from what you describe, but Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun has a ton of ideas easily grafted onto a post-apoc setting - in his case it's a colony ship where the inhabitants have regressed.

cheers, Mark

[Sociotard]

I took my sweet time posting on this thread, but here are my two cents.

*plink* *plink*

Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi (you know the guy) had a list of seven deadly sins that he said were the most dangerous to our social fabric. The unusual thing of it is, each 'sin' is attached to something good.

Wealth without Work
Pleasure without Conscience
Science without Humanity
Knowledge without Character
Politics without Principle
Commerce without Morality
Worship without Sacrifice

Each god has one of the first as a domain and dominant virtue, and is attending fault as a personality trait (which may become a side effect for anyone who invokes said god). I like this idea as it remindes me of the Greek Gods, who were extremely flawed beings

[PhilFleischmann]

Originally posted by shinrin
Anyways, I know that the original topic was for 7 Gods in a campaign, but it does beg to question about any non-human races in the world. Certainly, the Dwarves and Elves etc., would have their own pantheon of gods. Unless the Earth God/dess created and is worshipped by the Dwarves and the Nature God/dess created and is worshipped by the Elves etc., but somehow that doesn't seem to wash well.
Nothing personal, but I never liked the deendee idea that said that each race had to have its own gods. There is no "god of humans" so why should there be a "god of elves"? In my FH world, I created a huge pantheon* whcih should have enough gods to satisfy everyone regardless of race. Sure, some gods are inevitably going to be more popular among some races, but all are available. Ermen, god of mountains, is naturally very popular with dwarves, but mountain dwelling humans and other races also revere him, especially good giants. Likewise Randoni, goddess of forests is most commonly worshipped by elves, but anyone relying on trees, wood, or safe travel through forests will call on her for aid. Irev-Naru is generally considered an orc god, but anyone who's lifestyle values violence, destruction, hatred, and strength over morality, will find his religion appealing. And since all PC races in my world are mortal, they all pay homage to Kronterm, god of death, eventually.

*(54 and counting - it's out of control. I never intended it to grow to such a size, but I kept thinking of other things that I wanted a god of. I've pretty much stopped adding gods, except for a few minor obscure demigods occasionally, such as the moon goddesses children, each of which is represents a phase or aspect of the moon: demigod of the crescent moon, demigod of the new moon, demigod of eclipses, demigod of the moon in daylight, etc.)

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

You could always go with the Initiate/Outcast/Master set -- though they had rivals for each, one on the side of Law, one on the side of Chaos:

Earth
Air
Fire
Water
Space
Time
Life and Death


Death being only a part of life, it was wrapped into one.

For a good 'overall' set, the Westeros group is a good one; my favorite actually happens to be Bujold's Fivefold Path, simply because it's so elegant. On the other hand, she has a rather simple-yet-intricate setup of magic: you can either have been possessed by a demon (and gained the upper hand, using its power as magic), or you can be, errr, 'blessed' by one of the gods. Who love their saints 'the way a caravaner loves his mules, whipping them over the high passes....'