UFH: The Sixth Sun setting (Pulp Hero style)

[Steve]

After reading the Sixth Sun setting in UFH, where the return of magic took place in 1957 (and has been around until the year 2009 where the campaign takes place), I was wondering what it would be like if the change was moved back to say 1901 and then set the campaign in 1935 or so.

I keep having this image of Pulp-era Shadowrun when I consider that. Imagine an Elf Nazi SS officer. Would Nazi eugenic beliefs allow such a thing?

Or would the Nazis even exist at all? How would the First World War have been affected by magic returning in 1901? What might the 1930s be like after the world has had 30 years of adapting to the return of magic and old gods?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Nazi eugenicist elves? You can see Tolkien fighting that trope from page one.

[gojira]

It's a cool idea. Although I think it's basically steampunk+magic, which has been done. Full Metal Alchemist comes to mind. A complete, unique 1930's era magic steampunk world would be pretty interesting though.

You gotta define Nazi's in your game world yourself. I would keep them, they're just too darn fun to fight. Maybe have them mixed up with the Unseelie Court though, rather than just "elves", and of course other fell things.

Hmm, now I gotta go watch Wizards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizards_(film)) again.

[Shadowsoul]

I would rather expect Nazis to attempt the mass extermination of Elves and any other non-standard humanoids. If not then they would have a slightly different take on the world to incorporate different kinds of humanoids.

Magic in the Pulp Era would certainly make all that exploration a lot more important. Finding an old tomb in the Amazonian rainforest could be critical to the world's security if it's full to the brim with magical artefacts. Indiana Jones might be the USA's most highly paid agent!

Hellboy would be a good resource, a lot of his enemies are Nazis or related to them somehow.

[Steve]

The Thule Society would be even more prominent in Nazi Germany 35 years after magic returns, I would imagine.

Since the old gods would return as part of the Sixth Sun, that would mean the Norse gods would re-appear. The Nazis followed a Germanic pagan belief system, I believe. That could play into their revised background.

If the Sixth Sun was born in 1901, that would ignite mass catastrophes across the globe. Perhaps fascism and Nazism came about in response to that instead of the First World War as people turned to strong leaders in a time of unrest and fear. Perhaps the War never happened.

While Shadowrun non-humans do have a certain appeal, maybe the setting works better to just have humans with magic. (Although I have a fondness for the image of a Chinese elf woman dressed in Dragon Lady attire). :D

[gojira]

The Nazis followed a Germanic pagan belief system, I believe.

What?! Where do people get nonsense like this?

Hitler was Catholic. (http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm)

[Lord Liaden]

I highly recommend Aaron Allston's marvelous novel, Doc Sidhe. Doc Savage meets urban fantasy! :rockon:

Here (http://www.amazon.com/Doc-Sidhe-Aaron-Allston/product-reviews/0671876627/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) are a bunch of informative customer reviews on Amazon.com. And from here (http://www.baen.com/library/aallston.htm) you can download the whole novel, freely and legally.

Finally, check out the cover below for a taste of the flavor of the book.

[bubba smith]

I highly recommend Aaron Allston's marvelous novel, Doc Sidhe. Doc Savage meets urban fantasy! :rockon:

Here (http://www.amazon.com/Doc-Sidhe-Aaron-Allston/product-reviews/0671876627/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) are a bunch of informative customer reviews on Amazon.com. And from here (http://www.baen.com/library/aallston.htm) you can download the whole novel, freely and legally.

Finally, check out the cover below for a taste of the flavor of the book.
doc "side? i might check this one out

[Steve Long]

Doc SHEE. It's an Irish word, meaning "faerie." In Irish, S before a vowel like I is pronounced like SH.

As for the rest of it, you can understand why I "Fantasy Anglicized" the spelling of Irish words in Tuala Morn. ;)

[Markdoc]

What?! Where do people get nonsense like this?

Hitler was Catholic. (http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm)

And saw himself as a proud crusader and defender of christianity, I know. However, there were a few fruitcakes in the Nazi party, especially in the early days who were interested in Occultism (it was actually not an uncommon interest in the 20's and 30's).

Also the Prussians frequently used early German imagery in building a national identity* and the Nazis took that over. These days, people recall the Teutonic tribe images and forget that Charlemagne, Barbarossa and the Teutonic knights were more frequently used.

That image of Nazi Occultists has been cemented by Indiana Jones.

Still, for a pulp/fantasy hybrid, I'd go with it anyway. Nazis make good villains. Nazis intent on stealing the spear of Odin and using it in a new great war, make great villains.

cheers, Mark

*An important element in Jugendstil - and one used actually all over Europe, not just in Germany.

[gojira]

And saw himself as a proud crusader and defender of christianity, I know. However, there were a few fruitcakes in the Nazi party, especially in the early days who were interested in Occultism (it was actually not an uncommon interest in the 20's and 30's).


Yes, but a few fruitcakes didn't include Hitler, or the Nazi party as a whole. I realize Hitler wasn't observant, either, but he apparently still considered himself Catholic, and was generally supported by the Catholic church hierarchy through out his career.



That image of Nazi Occultists has been cemented by Indiana Jones.


Really? The Arc of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are not Christian? Hmm, not sure I buy that. The Catholicism is removed from those movies, but I always understood them to mean that the Nazis were very interested in using Christianity to further their political and military power.

[Lucius]

What?! Where do people get nonsense like this?

Hitler was Catholic. (http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm)

It's certainly not accurate, but it's not complete nonsense either. A great deal of what's been written about groups like the Thule Society IS nonsense, but they also did exist.



Really? The Arc of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are not Christian? Hmm, not sure I buy that.

Well, those are two different relics. The Holy Grail is Christian (although even that could be debated....) but the Ark of the Covenant most definitely is not. What made you think it was? It would predate Christianity by more centuries than I care to count right now.

Lucius Alexander

House of the Palindromedary

[gojira]

I think we're starting to threadjack Steve's thread here. I feel bad enough about going off topic already. Maybe NGD?

[Steve]

I think we're starting to threadjack Steve's thread here. I feel bad enough about going off topic already. Maybe NGD?

Trying to get the thread back on topic, what changes would you see if the premise of the Sixth Sun setting was moved to 1935 from 2009?

China might be faring a bit better against the Japanese with magic-enhanced martial artists offsetting guns.

Magical mind control techniques could make for an even more terrifying version of Stalin's Russia.

[gojira]

Trying to get the thread back on topic, what changes would you see if the premise of the Sixth Sun setting was moved to 1935 from 2009?

China might be faring a bit better against the Japanese with magic-enhanced martial artists offsetting guns.

Magical mind control techniques could make for an even more terrifying version of Stalin's Russia.


Yeah sorry about that.

Really, any of the big world stuff can go any way you want. If those ideas are more useful to you in your campaign, go for it. But I don't think there's any inherent way that magic must affect the real world.

I'd start small. What do you want your players to experience first? What are their options for characters? And what kind of world did they experience on a personal level before the campaign starts?

Shadowrun implies some sort of troubleshooter status for your characters. You might want to look at their immediate employers and adversaries. Unless this adventure takes place internationally, I don't think the heroes should encounter many Nazis.

(I'm just now remembering a Discovery Channel show in the Hindenburg, were they showed film of Americans giving German victims Nazi salutes. Nazis were respected or even admired, before WWII broke out. So even if you met a Nazi, he or she might not exactly be the thing of evil a modern person would expect. Makes the Unseelie court an even better patron of some Nazi members, as the Fae are almost always depicted as fair seeming, and capricious rather than outright evil.)

So yeah, what city will your players occupy, what's the geographic range of their activities, and what do you anticipate for adversaries?

(Getting another mental image now... of an adversary and ally both... the city itself ... run by a plugged in robotic Maria ... steampunk hacking style...Metropolis lives!)

[gojira]

Hmm, still thinking about this...

I remember (barely) something about Essence in Shadowrun. Getting cyber implants destroyed essence, making the user more vulnerable to certain types of magics. I think 6th Sun tries to model this with NND attacks, but what if we did something a little closer?

Essence: All players start with a default of 8 points of Essence. Essence is Power Defense, with the +1/2 modifier Essence. Power Defense bought this way counts as both regular Power Defense and Essence Defense. To buy Essence Defense only, buy Power Defense with the -1/2 modifier: Essence Defense Only.

Now switch most of the NND spells in 6th Sun to AVLD: Essence, and add -1: Only Affects Living Things. You'll probably have to muck around with power levels. I picked 8 points as a general "somewheres between 6 and 12 points of defense is good for low power Pulpy stuff." It should be adjusted for the power level of your campaign.

Then add:

The Metal Men: Bronze, steel, copper, iron... men and women who have been injured sometimes get replacement parts made by technology. This allows some interesting enhancements, such as greater strength, additional damage, or useful tools and abilities. However, each such modification costs Essence, making the user more susceptible to certain magics and technologies. Each modification costs one point of Essence. A character cannot drop him- or herself below 0 Essence.

(The actual Essence lost might need to be varied by AP of the modification, e.g. 1 point of Essence per 10 AP of the modification, rounded to the nearest 0.5 Essence. 0.5 Essence is rounded down, against the metal man but in favor of any opponent.)

[bubba smith]

Doc SHEE. It's an Irish word, meaning "faerie." In Irish, S before a vowel like I is pronounced like SH.

As for the rest of it, you can understand why I "Fantasy Anglicized" the spelling of Irish words in Tuala Morn. ;)thanks

[Kristopher]

Since the old gods would return as part of the Sixth Sun, that would mean the Norse gods would re-appear. The Nazis followed a Germanic pagan belief system, I believe. That could play into their revised background.

There was no overarching Nazi belief system, other than "Aryans* good, everyone else varying degrees of not-as-good to down-right-bad" and "Germany uber alles".

There were all sorts of mish-mashed, butchered belief systems and mythologies competing for time and power within the Nazi party.


* Well, what they considered Aryans, not the actual Aryans of actual history.

[Lord Liaden]

* Well, what they considered Aryans, not the actual Aryans of actual history.

Who were the ancestors of inhabitants of northern India and the Iranian Plateau. Wouldn't that have stuck in the craw of "that paper-hanging sonnuvab!tch" (to quote George Patton). :rolleyes:

[gojira]

Still thinking about this:

The Jaguar Kings: Aztec Priest-Kings who rule form stepped-pyramid shaped buildings and are rumored to use blood magic, not always their own blood, either.

Lemuria and Atlantis: Both groups are a strong presence on both land and sea.

People of 10,000 Gods: I'll speculate that South East Asia is fragmented politically and religiously, clinging to their many spirits and small gods that inhabit their native lands. The Shinto religion in Japan is the single largest and most powerful magical-political group.

[bubba smith]

Who were the ancestors of inhabitants of northern India and the Iranian Plateau. Wouldn't that have stuck in the craw of "that paper-hanging sonnuvab!tch" (to quote George Patton). :rolleyes:
yes it would

[gojira]

The Bright Boys: Various inventors, including an aged Nikola Tesla, who are responsible for many of the weird science inventions in 6th Sun, 1930. Albert Einstein is an honorary Bright Boy, although he has created no actual inventions, and has retreated from public life to become a sort of guru on the mountain top. Another Bright Boy outfit, the Wright Co., named for it's co-founders, Orville and Wilbur, is famous for it's use of Sky Hooks -- dirigibles with large cranes used to erect many of the larger buildings.

Walker Pilots: Artificial, steam driven machines, designed to do work in place of people, piloted by a small person who is its Pilot. The most well known pilots are the Iron Guard, ten foot tall armed metal guards who patrol the streets of Campaign City.

[Kristopher]

Doc SHEE. It's an Irish word, meaning "faerie." In Irish, S before a vowel like I is pronounced like SH.

As for the rest of it, you can understand why I "Fantasy Anglicized" the spelling of Irish words in Tuala Morn. ;)

Serious question about that.

I have several sources that claim that "sidhe" was originally a word for mound or hill, not the people, and that the actual name would be something like "Aes Sidhe", meaning "people of the mound".

Did you come across anything like that in your research for Tuala Morn?

[Shadowsoul]

Sidhe does refer to the mound as well. But I think that Sidhe alone can refer to the creatures as well.

Incidentally, the sorceresses in the Wheel of Time are clearly named after these legendary beings. Aes Sidhe becomes Aes Sedai.

[SKJAM!]

I'd have fantasy humanoids be "lost races" who have been cut off from Terra for millenia (except perhaps a few stragglers who inspired legends), but the Sixth Sun caused the entrances to their hidden lands to become available for transit. (In fact, I'm planning to use something very much like this idea for a future campaign.) You still have to travel to remote places to reach those entrances, of course.

(That'd make a good self-contained adventure: A new entrance to...somewhere...has been found in the Rocky Mountains, and a small band of brave explorers must enter, find out what's in there, and with luck make an alliance that will strengthen America against the forces of the Hun.)

[Steve]

The Bright Boys: Various inventors, including an aged Nikola Tesla, who are responsible for many of the weird science inventions in 6th Sun, 1930. Albert Einstein is an honorary Bright Boy, although he has created no actual inventions, and has retreated from public life to become a sort of guru on the mountain top. Another Bright Boy outfit, the Wright Co., named for it's co-founders, Orville and Wilbur, is famous for it's use of Sky Hooks -- dirigibles with large cranes used to erect many of the larger buildings.

Walker Pilots: Artificial, steam driven machines, designed to do work in place of people, piloted by a small person who is its Pilot. The most well known pilots are the Iron Guard, ten foot tall armed metal guards who patrol the streets of Campaign City.

These are some pretty cool ideas. I'm reminded of the "Sons of Ether" from the old WOD by White Wolf. Come to think of it, weird science mages would fit in really well for a 1930s style Sixth Sun campaign.

"The fools! They laughed at me over my ideas for a steam-powered walking tank! They will pay!"

[Steve]

I'd have fantasy humanoids be "lost races" who have been cut off from Terra for millenia (except perhaps a few stragglers who inspired legends), but the Sixth Sun caused the entrances to their hidden lands to become available for transit. (In fact, I'm planning to use something very much like this idea for a future campaign.) You still have to travel to remote places to reach those entrances, of course.

(That'd make a good self-contained adventure: A new entrance to...somewhere...has been found in the Rocky Mountains, and a small band of brave explorers must enter, find out what's in there, and with luck make an alliance that will strengthen America against the forces of the Hun.)

You could even use the Valdorian Age as a setting in this case. Put it inside a pocket universe of some sort with a gate inside the arctic.

It worked for the DC Universe's Warlord. :)

[SKJAM!]

This also allows the GM to moderate the amount of fantasy humanoids and critters to taste. Species she wants lots of come from a hidden land with a wide-open gate; Those that are gamebreakers or otherwise annoying have lands with narrow, heavily-guarded exits.

[gojira]

"The fools! They laughed at me over my ideas for a steam-powered walking tank! They will pay!"

Steam men were actually one of the earlier ideas for steam machines, at least by the fanciful:

http://www.bigredhair.com/steamman/index.html

I just decided to make it a bit more pulpy. Also, Girl Genius has clanks, and my Iron Guard owe just a bit to Baron Wolfenbach's soldier clanks, though I added the human pilot. "Bright Boys" is just another term for Mad Boys. ;)

[Shaft]

If the Sixth Sun was born in 1901, that would ignite mass catastrophes across the globe. Perhaps fascism and Nazism came about in response to that instead of the First World War as people turned to strong leaders in a time of unrest and fear. Perhaps the War never happened.

While Shadowrun non-humans do have a certain appeal, maybe the setting works better to just have humans with magic. (Although I have a fondness for the image of a Chinese elf woman dressed in Dragon Lady attire). :D

These were some ideas I had for a Shadowrun game set in 1920s or 1930s. While there was no cyberware, I envioned the power level as being similar to Swords and Sorcery with mages generally having poorer attributes and combat abilities than their two fisted "warrior" companions.

1901- The Year of Chaos;

magic returns to the world in full force; the first sign is the Great Dragon Ryumo, rising out of Mount Fuji
Goblinization epidemic: millions of people undergo traumatic transformations (including Queen Victoria, if you believe the rumours about her death). Those that survive find that they have become orcs and trolls.
Mayan people use magic to regain momentum in the 53 year ongoing Caste War of Yucatan.
Boxer Rebellion takes a turn for the Chinese forces who are backed up by Chinese Wizards and Geomancers who find their power increasing. Magic helps drive out the round eye foreigners.
Phillipine Insurrection takes a new turns as Phillipino mystics are able to use their magic to counter the American occupiers' superior technology;
Faerie folk reveal themselves openly
Plans to reinter Lincoln's body in a memorial are upset when his remains disappear, some say for nefarious purposes.
Scotland Yard begins a fingerprint archive and a collection of criminals' fingernail clippings and hair samples as material links in rituals.
Red Cloud leads Sioux from his reservation and begins the Second War named after him.
Tehran destroyed by Aden, a dragon, after jihad is declared against metahumans.
By the end of the year, Members of Torchwood and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn are consulted to form the Ministry of Magic in the UK. In the US, Congress and the Senate sanction the Freemasons to openly form the Department of Thaumaturgy.
1902

Second Boer War ends. Sub-sharan colonization slows dramatically as African magic counters European expansion.
Panama remains under Columbain control as US troops remain focused on Second Red Cloud war.
Race riots become more frequent as orcs and trolls become targetted. The new breeds found their own communities.
Many babies conceived in the previous year are observed to have Elven and Dwarven features.
1903

Newly elected Pope Piux X issues an edict against magic.
British invasion of Tibet fails as the Expeditionary Force discovers just how powerful the population's belief in the Dalai Lama is.
Central Australian landscape becomes chaotic as manastorms from the Dreamtime spills over into reality. Accessible areas are only on the coastal regions.
1904

Baltimore Fire destroys 1500 buildings in 30 hours: believed to have been set by mages for sinister ritual
Japanese forces surprise Russian invaders with their strength in the Russo-Japanese war. Global community suspects that Japan may have some mystical secrets.
1905

Westward expansion of North America is halted to a crawl by increasing powerful Native American tribes, who have accepted many outcast Orcs and Trolls seeking a new life for themselves. However, Utah seems immune to the wrath of the Native Americans, probably because of the populations' collective faith.
Albert Einstein submits several papers, including "The Special Theory of Relativity" and some theories corelating thaumaturgical events and subatomic ones.
1906

Red Cloud's forces order all non-Native Americans out of the West. When the order is refused, he brings the power of the Great Ghost Dance down upon San Francisco which undergoes an Earthquake that measures 7.8 on the Richter scale.
Canada and the US sue for peace, agreeing to terms that has them cede the Western half of the continent back to the Native American nations. The Native American Nations (NAN) agree to a limited Canadian/American presence at certain outposts for trading purposes. Utah secedes from the US and keeps its borders as a standalone country.
Charles Curtis wins Nobel peace prize for his role in negotiating the Treaty of Denver.
1908

The Tunguska Event occurs in Siberia: the most powerful mystical event for the next thirty years
Dorando Pietri is disqualified form the Olympics when it is discovered that his performance was enhanced with sorcery.
1909

Japan annexes Korea, establishes a naval base in Hawaii
1911

Magic is added as a category for the Nobel Prize
Aztlan (the new name for Mexico) secedes from the NAN.
Wuchang uprising leads to overthrow of Qing dynasty and the establishment of the Republic of China
Lofwyr, a dragon, appointed Kaiser of Germany.
1912

Magic is deemed inadmissible in legal proceedings by the US Supreme Court following its misuse in the Titanic investigation.
1913

The Seelie Court takes over Ireland and renames it Tir Nan Og
1914

The Great War breaks out, with Germany, Austria-Hungary, Aztlan and Turkey (the Central Powers) fighting the Allies (The Russian Empire, France, British Commonwealth, Italy, the United States and the Empire of Japan). In North America, Aztec forces invade Texas, with the US retaking Texas, New Mexico, Southern California and Cuba.
MIT changes its name to MIT&M (Massacusets Institute of Technology and Magic) to reflect the importance of its Thaumaturgical research.
1917

After Aztlan sues for a conditional peace, American troops were freed up and could be sent to Europe, shifting the balance of power overseas in the Allies' favour, and offsetting the loss of Russia, following their withdrawl from the War after the Russian Revolution.
1920

A magical arms race ensues as Cops battle Organized Crime to control Prohibition.
Influenza outbreak devastates populations of many nations.


1921

Beer hall putsch and metahuman riots break out in the failing, post Great War Weimar Republic

1929

A powerful spell disrupts earth's electromagnetic field. Radios, compasses and other technologies go haywire. The next few years find the mystical groups of the world cooperating in an unprecendented global ritual that restores the field. The widespread use of magical communication during the next two years forms the basis for the Magenet, a permanent network of scrying spells, crystal balls and magic mirrors that standardized global communications. However, the spirit of cooperation quickly fades as the various groups try using the Magenet to gain info on their rivals and advance their own causes.

[Steve]

These were some ideas I had for a Shadowrun game set in 1920s or 1930s. While there was no cyberware, I envioned the power level as being similar to Swords and Sorcery with mages generally having poorer attributes and combat abilities than their two fisted "warrior" companions.

A very cool timeline. Repped.