Power Game. Give it a try.

[Argus]

OK here is the deal.
Come up with a power that is perfectly legal but you would never allow someone to play.

I’ll go first using Duplication.

Example: Infinite Duplication. Cost 88 Points.
Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)
Which comes out to 88 points. Build a Duplicate that is exactly the same and have him
Spend his 88 points on, you guessed it.
Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

I ran it by Steve and he said it was legal.

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

A.

[Zed-F]

Megascale movement power, usable as attack.

"And then I slammed him into the wall at 0.1c."
"Ouch, that had to hurt..."

On a similar note, summon something which tries to ram someone, using a megascale movement power.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Zed-F
On a similar note, summon something which tries to ram someone, using a megascale movement power.

Well there goes my "Death of the Dinosaurs" attack. ;)

1d6RKA ED Continuous Double Penetrating 0 end Vs ECV Does Body Transdimensional.

Heck, almost anything Transdimensional outside of a campaign with plenty of dimension jumping characters, both PC and NPC.

[JMHammer]

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

Grand Total Cost: 80

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power. Need to save points? Dump the ED Absorption and the total cost drops to a measly 40!

Next challenge: Build a legal but unallowable power using Entangle.

John H

[Zed-F]

1d6 Entangle, +1 DEF (Base 15), BOECV (+1), Autofire x5 (+1/2), Continuous (+1), 0 END (+1), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Fully Invisible including Effects of Power (+2), Sticky (+1/2), Time Delay (+1/4), Cannot be escaped with teleport (+1/4).

120 Active points. Flavour with your favourite limitations (e.g extra time: 1 week, -4 1/2) to reduce the real cost. You could also use Extra Time instead of Time Delay to mimic the onset time.

Effect: A mental paralysis virus, with a morphology that is the CDC's worst nightmare. Spreads by simple contact, delayed onset of symptoms, effectively causes brain death. The uncontrolled autofire attack will effectively build up body in the mental paralysis indefinitely -- once it reaches the victim's EGO + 30, I'd consider the victim dead. This kind of virus if allowed to spread unchecked, could kill 90+% of the earth's population.

Bonus: Uncontrolled Missle Reflection, at any target, at range, IPE: IEOP.

Anything with continuous/uncontrolled and 0 END can potentially be abusive. :) IPE is another one to watch.

Next challenge: Images. And no Megascale. :)

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Argus
OK here is the deal.
Come up with a power that is perfectly legal but you would never allow someone to play.

I’ll go first using Duplication.

Example: Infinite Duplication. Cost 88 Points.
Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)
Which comes out to 88 points. Build a Duplicate that is exactly the same and have him
Spend his 88 points on, you guessed it.
Duplication 350 points +1/4 Altered Duplication (25% points spent differently.)

I ran it by Steve and he said it was legal.

Now it is your turn build a legal power for Absorption that you would never let some one use.

A.

Power is illegal.

25% of 350 is 75, you need 50% making it a +1/2 advantage, totaling 105.

Okay I'll think of some later...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Sorry...I'm too tired right now to tackle the 'Images' one, but I need to comment about the 'Sticky' part of the above construct. I used to model contageous diseases just that way, until I happened to think about the same sort of situation with something like clinging napalm. When I asked Steve about how you'd keep the entire population of the world from going up in smoke, he ruled that in the case of 'Sticky', it will spread from the original target to anyone who touches them, but WON'T spread from those secondary sufferers.

In other words:

A is hit with a 'Sticky' power. B, C, D all touch A. B, C, and D are now affected by the power. E and F touch C; E and F remain unaffected.

When I said that would make modeling infectious diseases impossible that way, Steve replied that infectious diseases should be done using Transform (into sufferer of the disease who also has the Transform others into disease sufferers).

[Deejmeister]

most bang for your buck:

Simulate Death talent, Usable as Attack (+1). For 6 active points you can put anyone to sleep with no defense (assuming you make your ego roll).

[Vondy]

X-Dim Movement, Ranged, Usable As Attack

Quote: "Go to Hell."

[Argus]

Originally posted by JmOz
Power is illegal.

25% of 350 is 75, you need 50% making it a +1/2 advantage, totaling 105.

Okay I'll think of some later...

Using my calcuator 350 * .25 = 87.5 or (88)

[JmOz]

That's what I get for posting at 12:30 in the AM, sorry about that

[Argus]

Originally posted by JmOz
That's what I get for posting at 12:30 in the AM, sorry about that

Not a problem.
I don't like making mistakes.

A.

[Agent X]

Another duplication trick. Buy Duplication x16 to make identical copies of the original. All buy 5 strength, 3 dex, 5/5 armor, and 5 mental defense usable by others. The original buys an absorption that feeds into the usable by others advantage and into the duplication. The copies doe the same with the twist that their absorption feeds into the usable by others and the original's duplication. Before you know it, Grond is facing 33 versions of my character, Infinite Miss, who at that point has a 185 strength, 119 dex, 170/170 pd/ed with 165 resistant pd/ed, and 165 mental defense. Sadly, they only have a 4 speed.:)

I recently built Infinite Miss as a follower. I was going with the concept and was trying to build the character where it would be balanced. Didn't work. She's just too mighty so she has simply become a conversation piece.

[Zed-F]

Duplication is an exclamation mark power for a reason. :)

Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by JMHammer
2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

Grand Total Cost: 80

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power.
...
John H

Damn, that's clever. I couldn't believe this power was legal, but I couldn't find anything in FREd that explicitly forbids it.

There's a bit in the Rules FAQ that warns about it, but it is only a warning:


From the Rules FAQ:
Q: Can Absorption, Aid, or Transfer specify that some or all of the Character Points received go to improve the effectiveness of the Adjustment Power itself?

A: At the GM’s discretion, yes. However, the GM should watch over such powers carefully, and be prepared to forbid them or require the player to revise them, if they prove to have too unbalancing an effect on the game.

As a GM, I would rule that the maximum you could raise the Absorption would be the original maximum, so you could turn your 2d6 into a 4d6 Absorption, and give yourself a max of 24 points for STR, PD, and ED (though PD and ED would be halved), but no more than a 12 max for the Absorption. That rule seems arbitrary to me though (and it makes the power construction a little pointless, although it might be a cheaper way to increase the max): If it increases the max for STR, PD, and ED, it should increase the max for Absorption too. I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly
When I said that would make modeling infectious diseases impossible that way, Steve replied that infectious diseases should be done using Transform (into sufferer of the disease who also has the Transform others into disease sufferers).

Fair enough. The point was to build something using entangle though. :) It probably would be more cost-effective to use transform in any case.

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky
I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.
Simple. Explain to him that unbalanced powers are not allowed. If he insists on it, you can always tell him that turnabout is fair play, and search the boards for even more unbalanced opponents (like Infinite Miss) or unbalanced attacks (I don't care what your PD is, 0.1c into a wall is DEAD) to throw at him.

After all, there's broken, and then there's BROKEN.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Zed-F
Simple. Explain to him that unbalanced powers are not allowed. If he insists on it, you can always tell him that turnabout is fair play, and search the boards for even more unbalanced opponents (like Infinite Miss) or unbalanced attacks (I don't care what your PD is, 0.1c into a wall is DEAD) to throw at him.

After all, there's broken, and then there's BROKEN.

Quite right. If he's reasonable he'll understand; If he's actively trying to be disruptive, don't invite him to the next game session.

At a pick up game, have a brick with shrinking down to the subatomic level fly into his brain and then start growing (Transdimensional Indirect Continuous HKA NND does body plus some levels to offset hit location penalties, or at that point just hand-wave it). ;)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky
As a GM, I would rule that the maximum you could raise the Absorption would be the original maximum, so you could turn your 2d6 into a 4d6 Absorption, and give yourself a max of 24 points for STR, PD, and ED (though PD and ED would be halved), but no more than a 12 max for the Absorption. That rule seems arbitrary to me though (and it makes the power construction a little pointless, although it might be a cheaper way to increase the max): If it increases the max for STR, PD, and ED, it should increase the max for Absorption too. I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

You don't absorb to Dice - you absorb to Max Points. So, for example, 2d6 Absorb, half to STR and half to Absorb Max. I absorb 6 points - 3 goes to STR and 3 increases my max absorb by 6 (3 each to STR and Absorb). Might just as well call "no maximum" a +1 advantage.

I'd allow this, but not the huge delayed fade rate.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Zed-F
Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

Energy Blast 30d6.

Force Feild +100/+100 0 END

+200 PRE (and do lots pf PRE attacks)

Anything bought well above campaign max will be abusive and disallowed.

[JMHammer]

I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.

Well, as much as a GM should avoid draconian or "Just 'cause I says so!" rulings, you don't necessarily have to convince a player that something isn't permissable in your game. Pretty much anything a player can come up with that creates an infinite-loop situation, has no common or at least obvious defense or vulnerability, or is otherwise a fairly obvious power-gaming abuse of the rules should just be ruled ineligible for your game.

That's also the point of this thread, I think: Legal - yet hopefully interesting - power constructs that a GM oughtn't allow in a game.

There are a good number of characters in fiction that, in any game terms, are simply too powerful to permit an accurate rendering of those powers within a game for control by a player. I recall running a series of adventures in Piers Anthony's world of Xanth a good many years ago. (Don't mock me too harshly; the first four books were good...) Modeling Bink was pretty easy, but it wasn't possible to allow a player to control that character. His power, "Cannot be harmed, directly or indirectly, by magic; cannot suffer permanent harm from anything; amazing good luck; no conscious control on any of this; power protects itself from discovery by acting through seeming coincidence," may sound boring to play. Compared to Trent (transform any animal - including humans and "magical" animals - into any other animal), Dor (impart personalities to non-living things and give them the power of human speech; no conscious control over the ascribed personalities), or Smash the Ogre (typical strength, toughness, etc.), it IS boring. But except for GM fiat in service of plot, the character of Bink is immune to everything and to some extent that immunity is shared by his entire family and anyone else he cares about. Made for great fiction, especially in the first two books of the series whose plots, for all intents and purposes, were driven by this amazing luck power; but was absolutely awful for the game.

John H

[John515]

Is 0.1c equal to 1/10 the speed of light?

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by John515
Is 0.1c equal to 1/10 the speed of light? Yes, c is the standard symbol in physics for light speed; as in Einstein's famous E = mc² formula (Energy = mass X velocity of light²).

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Zed-F
Here's another challenge, if you don't like the images one: something that uses no stop sign or exclamation mark powers or advantages.

8D6 Ranged Killing Attack, Explosion, x4 Radius
-0 Limitation: Only affects bad people
Detect Bad 18 or less, Ranged
-1/2 Limitation: Detect only works on power

"Don't you know that the smart bombs are so clever, they only kill bad people." - Oingo Boingo, War Again

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
You don't absorb to Dice - you absorb to Max Points. So, for example, 2d6 Absorb, half to STR and half to Absorb Max. I absorb 6 points - 3 goes to STR and 3 increases my max absorb by 6 (3 each to STR and Absorb). Might just as well call "no maximum" a +1 advantage.
...


Yeah I get it. I misread p. 73 as 2 cp for +1 max (which would be a rip-off), so I thought it was a better deal to raise the dice. It isn't.

Also, since this power has a total +3 advantage, if it did absorb to the dice of the Absorption, it wouldn't work. At +3 advantage, it would take 20 cp to give +1d6 Absorption. So raising the max is the only way to do it.

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Yes, c is the standard symbol in physics for light speed; as in Einstein's famous E = mc² formula (Energy = mass X velocity of light²).

Something I've always wondered: Energy measured in what and Mass measured in what? I mean, energy measured in watts to mass measured in tons in very different from enrgy measured in joules and mass measured in ounces. See what I mean?

[C_Zeree]

E is measured in Joules = 1 kg*m/s^2.
M is in kilograms (kg)
c is in meters per second squared (m/s^2)

4.186 joules will raise 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius.

Ohh I feel so dirty now, I have to wash...

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by JMHammer
2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). Subtotal Cost: 40

Grand Total Cost: 80

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels. All the character has to do is bang his head against a wall, stand in a fire, jump off some buildings, or perform some other nonsense in order to "charge up" and the charge lasts for a month! Which is plenty of time to charge up again and never lose power. Need to save points? Dump the ED Absorption and the total cost drops to a measly 40!

Next challenge: Build a legal but unallowable power using Entangle.

John H

Totally legal, but doesn't work. The Advantages apply to the adder as well. That's a +3 Advantage on the Absorption increase to max. Before, it was +1 point for +2 to the Absorption max. Now, it's +4 points for +2 to the Absorption max. You're maxing out at about 24 points absorped. Congrats, you just spent 80 points to give yourself +24 Str (with no figured characteristics), +12 PD, and +12 ED.

The infinite adjustment power trick doesn't work.

Here's a nasty power.

1D6 Energy Blast
Area Effect: One Hex (+1/2)
Personal Immunity (+1/4)
Continuous (+1)
Autofire x640 (+2 1/4), with (+1) for no normal to-hit
Zero End (+1)
No Range (-1/2)
Does no Stun (-3/4)
Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

Active Cost: 35 points
Real Cost: 14 points

It's continuous, and no range, so it's basically a damage shield that affects your whole hex. What does this power do?

Knockback. Every additional hit from an autofire attack adds +1 inch to the total knockback. This attack basically does 640 inches of knockback (minus 2D6, of course). It's Area Effect, so if you miss, the other hits scatter. Guess what. An attack can only scatter by half the number of hexes you fired it. Half of zero is zero. You automatically hit every time. Hope that brick who wants to punch you has a pretty good amount of KB resistance.

I don't have the 5th Edition book with me, but I believe those didn't have any special markings beside them. Next challenge: Hand Attack.

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by Champsguy
Knockback. Every additional hit from an autofire attack adds +1 inch to the total knockback. This attack basically does 640 inches of knockback (minus 2D6, of course). It's Area Effect, so if you miss, the other hits scatter. Guess what. An attack can only scatter by half the number of hexes you fired it. Half of zero is zero. You automatically hit every time. Hope that brick who wants to punch you has a pretty good amount of KB resistance.

That doesn't work either. According to the FAQ, it doesn't matter where the missed shots scatter to, they have no further effect other than to increase the size of the area hit with one single hit.


Q: If an attack has both Area Of Effect and Autofire, what happens with “missed� shots?

A: For multiple shots against a single target, the Attack Roll determines how many shots hit the target. The rest are considered misses and have no effect on the target. You can randomly determine the “scatter� for the missed shots, adapting the rules on 5E 248, if you want, but the target should not suffer any additional damage.

If attack misses entirely, make one calculation for where the shots would scatter to based on the normal rules, then apply the damage from that one attack to the affected area. The rest, again, are considered misses and have no effect on the area hit (which may or may not overlap to hit the target anyway).

So, you attack with your 0 range EB (you "touch" your hex) and roll your autofire attack. Since you're standing in it, it's probably DCV 0, but you still get a -2 per autofire shot to see how many times you hit. Say you're OCV 9 and you roll an 11, you will hit 5 times. All hits after that point are considered misses and can only increase the size of the area hit with a single attack, but since they can't scatter they don't do anything.

You could still get a fairly nasty power by building something along those lines and using sweep/rapid fire to do multiple attacks with it, but certainly not the 640x you have purchased on the power.

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by C_Zeree
E is measured in Joules = 1 kg*m/s^2.
M is in kilograms (kg)
c is in meters per second squared (m/s^2)



Thank you! That has driven me nuts for years, and I've never been able to find anyone who knew.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Zed-F
That doesn't work either. According to the FAQ, it doesn't matter where the missed shots scatter to, they have no further effect other than to increase the size of the area hit with one single hit.


Okay. I don't read the FAQ. As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't in the 5th Edition main book, it ain't a rule. I'm not going to bother to look online to see if they've changed any rules on me.

Just change everything over to Damage Shield, then, instead of AE: One Hex.

I play 4th Edition anyway. 5th Edition sucks. :)

[Zed-F]

Don't think damage shield would help.



Q: How does Autofire interact with Damage Shield?

A: If a character applies Autofire to a Damage Shield, he must pay for the additional +1 Advantage, since Damage Shield doesn’t involve a normal Attack Roll. To determine how many “shots� hit, you have two options. First, you can negotiate something with the GM to establish a standard number that hit every time. Second, you can determine randomly (for example, by rolling 1d6-1, minimum of 1).


Since the power is not allowable to begin with, it's kind of moot asking your GM how many times you can hit out of your 640 attacks. :)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Zed-F
Since the power is not allowable to begin with, it's kind of moot asking your GM how many times you can hit out of your 640 attacks. :)

Sure it is. Based on the FAQ, I'll let you hit d6-1 times. Tell you what - let's be generous and make it a WHOLE d6!

But I would allow that power, so I guess it's outside the thread ;)

[Broblawsky]

Actually, the absorption trick IS usable, so long as you remove the +2 5/month return rate thing - which is irrelevant, since you should be able to get virtually infinite effect from the power. Assuming you have a speed of 4, and absorption 2d6, and a wall to bang your head into, and enough PD to completely ignore the 2d6 damage you're inflicting on yourself, you can get 8d6 - 5 active points of whatever your absorption feeds per turn...which means 40d6 - 25 per minute, or 2400d6 - 1500 per hour, or 57600d6 - 36000 per day of continuous banging. A day of continuous head-banging will give you an average of 165600 active points of whatever 3 attributes you want, which should last for more than 110 hours, or roughly 4 and a half days.

[JMHammer]

Actually, the absorption trick IS usable, so long as you remove the +2 5/month return rate thing

It will still work with the +2 return rate Advantage. The dice of effect, and therefore the max points of Absorption, will just compound more slowly.

But it's true that the power is even more effective without the delayed return rate, given the extremely high (read: infinite) number of points it can add. I just put that mod in there to make it even more outrageous.

John H

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by JMHammer
It will still work with the +2 return rate Advantage. The dice of effect, and therefore the max points of Absorption, will just compound more slowly.

But it's true that the power is even more effective without the delayed return rate, given the extremely high (read: infinite) number of points it can add. I just put that mod in there to make it even more outrageous.

John H

I think the Munchkin King is right on this one: you get diminshing returns until it no longer works.

You can't raise the dice of the absorption with this feedback: with the +3 adder, it costs 20 cp per die, and you can only get 12. So raising the max is the only way to do it, but even that peters out.

This is how I see it:
You've got a 2d6 Absorption going to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (to raise max), with +3 in total advantages. So at first, your absorb max is 12. After you absorb 12 BODY, your new max is 18 (4 cp per +2 max, so 12 BODY will give you +6 max).

Now your max is 18, but you've already absorbed 12 BODY. You can absorb 6 more BODY, but at 4cp per +2 max, that only gives you a new max of 20 (with 2 cp left over).

Now you can only absorb 2 more BODY. Add that to the 2 cp leftover and you have +2 max, for a total of 22. And that's where it stops: 2 more BODY won't raise the max.


Ifyou take off the +2 adder for the return rate, you're only paying 2 cp per +2 max, so it will go on forever (I think); but that also only works if you raise the max, not the dice. Absorbing to the dice, even with just a +1 adder, will cost 10 cp per +1d6, so you'll only raise it 1d6 after the first 12 BODY, and nothing more (unless you get into 1/2d6s for Absorption, but even then it'll stop). You'll have a 3d6 Absorb with an 18 max, but you can only absorb 6 more BODY, and that won't raise the dice again.

Maybe I'm wrong (hell, I've already been wrong in this thread), but that seems to be correct to me.

[Argus]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
Energy Blast 30d6.

Force Feild +100/+100 0 END

+200 PRE (and do lots pf PRE attacks)

Anything bought well above campaign max will be abusive and disallowed.

So the point of this game is to build something that is within the Campaign Max.

I would allow some one to have the +100 PD/ED FF at 0 end.
They couldn't do anything else and would and would get very upset when they were hit with a 6d6 NND Defense No Force Fields.

A.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Argus
So the point of this game is to build something that is within the Campaign Max.

I would allow some one to have the +100 PD/ED FF at 0 end.
They couldn't do anything else and would and would get very upset when they were hit with a 6d6 NND Defense No Force Fields.

A.

At least make the defense "Life Support" so it's not obviously targeted at him.

HEY - You just gave me the power!

Multipower (60 point base)

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field
Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)

I had a player try to bring in this construct many years ago. While I considered every villain having a small force field with an 11- activation, I decided to just deny the power instead :rolleyes:

[Broblawsky]

Cool. I'm the Munchkin King now? Well, everyone needs a title. I'd have preferred Lord of All Humans, but you gotta take what you can get.

In any case, my contribution to this exercise is: Change Environment (-12 OCV, 1" radius) (Megascale 1 +1/4, Personal Immunity +1/4, Only Costs END to Activate +1/4 (105 Active Points); No Range -1/2, Increased END Cost 2x -1/2, Extra Time (Delayed Segment Cannot Act) to Activate -1/4)

Final Cost: 47 Real Points
END Cost (Only to Activate): 21

This construct could represent a sort of space-warping field that makes attack nearly impossible for everyone but it's creator. In any case, it makes the base attack roll for anyone trying to hit you OCV - (DCV + 1), meaning even the most skilled opponents will have some problems with it; hell, even area-effect attacks will be nearly useless. It's relatively cheap (the operant term being relatively) and has a big impact, although it will probably piss off your friends. It works well for a master villain with space/time manipulating powers, though.

An alternate, less expensive Change Environment Construct should be mandatory for most mentalists: the same as above, but it inflicts a, say, -10 to ego rolls for everyone nearby - which makes breakout rolls nearly impossible and synergizes well with Suppress/Drain/Transfer EGO powers, since just managing to drain someone to 0 EGO will totally incapacitate them - they won't be able to make the EGO roll to act of their own accord or to disobey your orders. Change Environment is a yield-signed power, though (I can't remember, I don't have my book with me right now), so this might be a little out of place in this thread - effective, though.

[Zed-F]

Change Environment doesn't have a caution sign, but there's already comments in the power description about the GM strictly limiting the CV effects one can impose using it.

EDIT: typo

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by Broblawsky
Cool. I'm the Munchkin King now? Well, everyone needs a title. I'd have preferred Lord of All Humans, but you gotta take what you can get.
...


Sorry man, I was referring to Champsguy: he's worn the Munchkin King crown for a long time. (You probably haven't been on these boards long enough to know that yet.) You can proclaim yourself a Munchkin Knight or Munchkin Duke, if you'd like. Although I think I'd prefer Lord of All Humans too. :)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Broblawsky
In any case, my contribution to this exercise is: Change Environment (-12 OCV, 1" radius) (Megascale 1 +1/4, Personal Immunity +1/4, Only Costs END to Activate +1/4 (105 Active Points); No Range -1/2, Increased END Cost 2x -1/2, Extra Time (Delayed Segment Cannot Act) to Activate -1/4)

Final Cost: 47 Real Points
END Cost (Only to Activate): 21


Ummm...why not just buy +14 DCV, costs END to activate? Same real cost; 1/3 the END;

same likelihood I'd approve it... :rolleyes: which was the point of the exercise

I guess the CE has the advantage of looking like it doesn't violate campaign CV restrictions.

[Broblawsky]

Actually, +14 DCV has the problem of, well, not protecting you from area-effect attacks, the bane of all speedsters and martial artists. No matter how high your DCV is, the DCV of your hex will always be three. However, if you lower your opponent's OCV, it will make it harder for them to target your hex, or any other hex, for that matter. With the previous construct, the attack roll for someone affected by the power to successfully hit a non-adjacent hex is OCV - 4.

[OddHat]

150 Darkness to Hearing , Sight , Mental , Radio , Smell/Taste and Touch Groups 2" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (150 Active Points)

The character creates a sphere of darkness where all perception rolls automatically fail and targetting is impossible, yet no one notices anything unusual about the area. The Character is immune. THe character is effectively fully invisible and all of the character's powers get fully invisible power effects for free, and he can only be attacked by someone with ver rare unusual senses.

Drop it down to:
87 Darkness to Hearing , Mental , Sight and Smell/Taste Groups 1" radius, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2)

And now you can have it for under 90 points. :)

[Argus]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
At least make the defense "Life Support" so it's not obviously targeted at him.

HEY - You just gave me the power!

Multipower (60 point base)

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field
Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)

I had a player try to bring in this construct many years ago. While I considered every villain having a small force field with an 11- activation, I decided to just deny the power instead :rolleyes:

I like it.
35 pts
No Will to Fight:
Drain Ego - Only vs Characters powers 1d6, Limited Power Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (+0), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Armor Piercing x1 (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (52 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

Then you add a 6d6 Mind Scan, Telepathy, and Mind Control and he rules the city. A few more points and he could rule the world.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson


Multipower (60 point base)

Slot 1: 6d6 NND: DEF Force Field
Slot 2: 6d6 NND: DEF not having a force field

COST: 72 points (ultra slots)



You can't have a NND defined by a negative, so "not having a force field" would be illegal.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
You can't have a NND defined by a negative, so "not having a force field" would be illegal.

Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"

BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"

BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power. Yep, and there is a certain character from Day of the Destroyer with an NND like this. Now, it may be 4th Ed. but I'm not going to throw away every "tradition" just cuz DOJ finally started printing books.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
Actually, the quote is that defenses defined by a lack of something are usually inapppropriate, not that it's illegal. With the right SFX, I might well allow "not having a force field up", but certainly not in tandem with "NND: force field"


Thanks for the clarification. I didn't have the book in front of me.



BTW, "not breathing" would be another term for "LS (elf contained breathing) or holds breath", so starting with "not" clearly doesn't eliminate the power.

That's not what I meant, and it's not defining the NND defense by a negative. It'd defining the NND as having a quality (life support).

Anyway, two NNDs that compensate for each other, if not illegal by the exact wording is pretty obviously by intent.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
Anyway, two NNDs that compensate for each other, if not illegal by the exact wording is pretty obviously by intent.

Which was the point of the exercise - a power which, while technically legal, clearly would never be allowed by any sane GM.

[Chris Goodwin]

I posted this somewhere.

Take a ranged killing attack. It can be as big as you want, but for the sake of argument we'll assume three dice. Buy it at a million charges. Make it Area Effect (this is important), with Megascale on it if you like, or perhaps just one hex area. Definitely Megascale the range.

Now Blaze Away with this Power. Use all million shots.

According to the rules for Blazin' Away, each shot fired hits on a 3. On average, 1 in 216 shots will roll a 3, so you'll hit with approximately 4,629 of them. The others will scatter by 1 hex for every point you miss your roll by, so the maximum scatter you'll get will be 15 hexes away. Presto: you've just slammed a million 3d6 killing attacks (or whatever) down on a 30 hex radius "circle".

Buy it up to a billion charges if you want, for no cost increase. Now you can throw a thousand of those monsters, or for even more fun goodness, blaze away with all billion charges. That time you'll hit with ~4,629,000 of them, and the other 995,000,000+ will scatter, again in a 30 hex radius circle. More charges will hit every other hex in the circle than hit ground zero.

For the final brutal blow, make them double or triple Penetrating. At that point they'll just obliterate whatever you aim at, unless it's Hardened.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by archer
I posted this somewhere.

Take a ranged killing attack. It can be as big as you want, but for the sake of argument we'll assume three dice. Buy it at a million charges.

That's the one - I forget who posted it a couple of weeks ago!

Buy any power you want (or all your powers) normally. However, also apply "Charges - 1 googol" (+1 advantage; googol being 1 with a million zeroes behind it - hey, make it a trillion zeroes the cost's unchanged) and make the charges non-recoverable (-2 from the Charges figure). All your powers purchased with this construct are half price, and get 0 END as an added freebie.

Stevehas, I'm told, indicated the construct is technically legal. Clearly no one would allow it. [The priginal poster is welcome to take credit for the ides, by the way - I'm just reporting it.]

[Zed-F]

One small note: Under the Blazing Away rules, you can only hit anything once, no matter how many times you roll. It would be a lot simpler (and more legal) to just buy a regular area affect attack, and up the area to what you're looking for if necessary.

[JMHammer]

Hugh said:

googol being 1 with a million zeroes behind it

One googol is 10^100. That's represented by a 1 with one-hundred zeroes following it.

One googolplex is 10^googol, or (10)^(10^100). That's represented by a 1 with a googol zeroes following it - which cannot be represented as there are only about 10^80 (I could be off by a little here... :D ) atoms in the universe.

John H

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
Which was the point of the exercise - a power which, while technically legal, clearly would never be allowed by any sane GM.

Yes, I was ceding the point. The book isn't as firm as I'd thought it was on the issue.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by JMHammer
Hugh said:


One googol is 10^100. That's represented by a 1 with one-hundred zeroes following it.

One googolplex is 10^googol, or (10)^(10^100). That's represented by a 1 with a googol zeroes following it - which cannot be represented as there are only about 10^80 (I could be off by a little here... :D ) atoms in the universe.

John H

I'll rename mine a "google" then, consistent with the populare spelling error. [I should never post these things when I'm distracted] But I want 1 with a million zeroes charges, thanks!

[Pogo]

Originally posted by GenreFiend
Something I've always wondered: Energy measured in what and Mass measured in what? I mean, energy measured in watts to mass measured in tons in very different from enrgy measured in joules and mass measured in ounces. See what I mean?

It doesn't really matter, so long as the units balance. If you want energy in joules, you will want to measure mass in kilograms and use c = 3*10^8 m/s. If you want energy in kilowatt hours, start off with energy in joules and divide by 3600000. In lots of high energy physics, you'll see c = 1, with energy in MeV (millions of electron volts) and mass in MeV/c^2.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally posted by Zed-F
One small note: Under the Blazing Away rules, you can only hit anything once, no matter how many times you roll. It would be a lot simpler (and more legal) to just buy a regular area affect attack, and up the area to what you're looking for if necessary.

(a) You can only hit your target once. It doesn't say anything about where the other shots go. Since it's Area Effect, the missed shots scatter just like they do normally.

(b) You can only hit once with each Autofire "burst". This implies that you can hit once with each shot you fire.

[Robyn]

:o
150 Darkness to Hearing , Sight , Mental , Radio , Smell/Taste and Touch Groups 2" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (150 Active Points)

The character creates a sphere of darkness where all perception rolls automatically fail and targetting is impossible, yet no one notices anything unusual about the area. The Character is immune. THe character is effectively fully invisible and all of the character's powers get fully invisible power effects for free,

Why stop there? Add in an AOE, and the power may as well be called "Where did everybody go?", since noone can perceive anyone else to find them, and noone's powers can be used to signal for help or even just a "Hello? Anyone out there?"

[DocSamson]

This isn't nearly as powerful as some of the above, but I did break a game with it once.

Transform Into Anything
V.P.P. (Max Active)
Control Cost (Half Max Active)
Advantages: Cosmic (+2)
Limitations: One Type of Power: Multiform Only (-.5 to -1.5) (In our campaign we settled on -1 as it was only one power, albeit a very versatile one.)

I literally played a different form every night, sometimes two or three. I exploited every NPC Vulnerability and Susceptability we knew about. It was alot of fun for me as I loved having to prepare a new character sheet every week, but the GM lost alot of hair until I toned the character down (we eventually limited him to just animals, then a set number of forms after that). It was alot of fun.

[jkwleisemann]

For no Warning powers or advantages:

Vampiric Death Field 1d6 Transfer (Body to either Stun, Body, or Strength), +30 Increased Max, Personal Immunity (+1/4) AoE Radius (+1). 68 AP. Apply limitations to taste/cost requirements.

Now, I might be mis-reading the Absorption power rules, but I'm pretty sure this allows for up to 18 total points of Body damage against Power Defense to everybody in a 3-4" radius - and for all of that damage to be transferred to your chosen stat. Tacked this onto a villain of mine once, using Strength, before I remembered that, technically, this would also affect every inanimate object in his immediate area. He quickly ended up with a STR in the low hundreds. :rolleyes:

[ghost-angel]

:o

Why stop there? Add in an AOE, and the power may as well be called "Where did everybody go?", since noone can perceive anyone else to find them, and noone's powers can be used to signal for help or even just a "Hello? Anyone out there?"
Darkness can't have the AoE Advantage because it's already an AoE Power - just increase the Radius on the base power.

[Robyn]

Darkness can't have the AoE Advantage because it's already an AoE Power - just increase the Radius on the base power.

So that's what I must have been thinking, the first time. I posted it and then read the build again and couldn't figure out why I had ever thought it would affect more than the power's user, so I edited it to specify the AOE.

Part of it being that I was posting too late at night, perhaps ;)

[bwdemon]

Plague Touch (40pts): 1d6 RKA, Continuous (+1), Penetrating (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2; lasts 24 hours or until victim receives a full dose of vancomycin, whichever comes first), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2)

EDIT: still working on a good power for Images...

[MilkmanDan]

It's what we get to deal with in the U.S. every four years. A month-plus of nothing but inane commentary on what politicians are pretending to be. I give you ELECTION BRAIN DRAIN.

Drain INT 4d6, Trigger (Election Day) (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4) (120 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Month, -5), 1 Recoverable Charge which Recovers every >1 Season (-3 1/4), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4)

[Log-Man]

It's what we get to deal with in the U.S. every four years. A month-plus of nothing but inane commentary on what politicians are pretending to be. I give you ELECTION BRAIN DRAIN.

Drain INT 4d6, Trigger (Election Day) (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4) (120 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Month, -5), 1 Recoverable Charge which Recovers every >1 Season (-3 1/4), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4)
:lol: Nice, but I doubt you'd need the full 4d6 :D

[Blue Jogger]

This is a two-power combo attack.

First, open a portal:
Stretching, Does not Cross Intervening Space (+1/4), Non-combat Stretching. Be sure to make the distance something good like 512 hexes or so. Make sure to open it a little under half your distance.

Second, while the portal is open, Summon a real nasty creature, incredibly powerful, dangerous, and utterly hates your guts and, more importantly, hates everybody and everything.

The bad news, it will show up in the next available empty space, right next to you, foaming at the mouth.

The good news, oh look here's a nice little portal that I can, for a half-phase action, "pull myself" through and end up 256 hexes away.

Summoning Angry Demon from Hell, 60 Active Points, 15 Real Points.
Cheesy Stretching spell, approximately another 15 Real Points.

The ability to suddenly move 256 hexes in a half-phase while the demon is still disorintated.
ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS :cool:

[ghost-angel]

Plague Touch (40pts): 1d6 RKA, Continuous (+1), Penetrating (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2; lasts 24 hours or until victim receives a full dose of vancomycin, whichever comes first), 0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2)

EDIT: still working on a good power for Images...
The only idea I have for images that ends up towards abusive...

Everywhere At Once: Sight, Mental, Hearing, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups, Danger Sense, Spatial Awareness and Combat Sense Images Increased Size (16" radius; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (102Active Points); Set Effect (Only Copies of self; -1), No Range (-1/2)

combined with:

Everywhere At Once: (Total: 115 Active Cost) Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) for up to 100 Active Points of [Attack Powers] (75 Active Points); Limited Power Only from Copies (-1/2) (Real Cost: 50) plus Running +20" (26" total) (40 Active Points); Only "inside" Everywhere At Once Images (-1 1/2), no Noncombat movement (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14)

This is on my wifes character. A small-large number of the character are running around, each time a different one attacks a target. which one do you hit? Most of them are just after images of a temporal shifter moving between seconds.

[bwdemon]

I had thought of using a Mega-Scale to cover the entire world in Images, essentially putting everyone in the character's imaginary world. However, Images uses a power advantage to increase the area covered, so it would be unbalanced to apply Mega-Scale to the power. The end result being a ridiculous cost to get what I was looking for.

The best use of Images is pretty much as a distraction or cover-up for something else that's going on (e.g. hide the fact that the bridge is out, create an Image of you running away in one direction while you go invisible and run off in a different direction, cover up a photo on an FBI badge with an image of your own face, etc.). So it doesn't lend itself well to insane power-gaming. It's more of a finesse thing.

Here's one use for an often-ignored power...

Gravedigger (112pts): 3" Tunneling through 3 DEF, Fill In, AVLD (force wall, +1 1/2), Usable as Attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2), Area Effect (1 hex, +1/2)

... Point at your opponent and they're suddenly 6m underground. Thanks to AVLD, so long as you aren't trying to get through a force wall, you can tunnel through anything and everything as easy as if it were potting soil.

[Log-Man]

This is a two-power combo attack.

First, open a portal:
Stretching, Does not Cross Intervening Space (+1/4), Non-combat Stretching. Be sure to make the distance something good like 512 hexes or so. Make sure to open it a little under half your distance.

Second, while the portal is open, Summon a real nasty creature, incredibly powerful, dangerous, and utterly hates your guts and, more importantly, hates everybody and everything.

The bad news, it will show up in the next available empty space, right next to you, foaming at the mouth.

The good news, oh look here's a nice little portal that I can, for a half-phase action, "pull myself" through and end up 256 hexes away.

Summoning Angry Demon from Hell, 60 Active Points, 15 Real Points.
Cheesy Stretching spell, approximately another 15 Real Points.

The ability to suddenly move 256 hexes in a half-phase while the demon is still disorintated.
ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS :cool:
I really like this one, but I thought you were going a different direction. Using stretching, couldn't you just make the target hex for the summon next to your outstretched hand, then just snap back?

[Armitage]

I had thought of using a Mega-Scale to cover the entire world in Images, essentially putting everyone in the character's imaginary world. However, Images uses a power advantage to increase the area covered, so it would be unbalanced to apply Mega-Scale to the power. The end result being a ridiculous cost to get what I was looking for.

Gravedigger (112pts): 3" Tunneling through 3 DEF, Fill In, AVLD (force wall, +1 1/2), Usable as Attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2), Area Effect (1 hex, +1/2)

... Point at your opponent and they're suddenly 6m underground. Thanks to AVLD, so long as you aren't trying to get through a force wall, you can tunnel through anything and everything as easy as if it were potting soil.


Takofanes' VPP has Change Environment 1" with enough MegaScale that the hex engulfs the entire planet (turning the Sun black), so that's apparently not illegal.

H5R, p. 242.
"Characters may not apply the Attack Versus Limited Defense or No Normal Defense Advantages to Tunneling as a cheap way of Tunneling through any substance regardless of its DEF."
If you made it NND (Force Wall), you could bury anyone who wasn't protected by a Force Wall, as long as the ground was DEF 3 or less, but that's all.

[katal3]

Hmm, I came of with a combo a while back thats absolutly wrong. It involves images and a small teleport... yeheheheheheh. I was elaborating upon the Mirror Images spell in DnD
Mirror Image: Sight Group Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4), +/-3 to PER Rolls, Mirror Images Mimic Characters Actions Exactly (This includes moving; +0), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (28 Active Points); Only to Create Mirror Images of Character (-1), No Range (-1/2). Total Cost: 11 points.
Mirror Bounce: Teleportation 2", Linked (Mirror Image; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; +0), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Triggers when Attacked; +3/4) (7 Active Points); Only to Exchange Places with a Mirror Image (-1), no Noncombat movement (-1/4). Total Cost: 3 points.
Grand Total: 14 cp.

Basicly this power makes you almost utterly impervious to any attack (including AoEs) smaller then 2-3" radius. As there is only a 1 in 7 chance they will attack the right "image" and even if they do he simply teleports to one of the other ones. of course they can make a Per roll (maybe) to detect the correct image, but that doesn't stop him from bouncing.

[bwdemon]

Whoops! I was just scanning through there, and I saw "AVLD" in the Tunneling section. I'd never thought about it until that moment and I didn't read the whole thing. Ugh...

Change it to 3" Tunneling through up to 10 DEF, Usable as Attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2), Area of Effect (1 hex, +1/2); Total Cost = 138pts.

Not quite as brutal, but still pretty good. It'll go through just about anything you'd need it to.

[Force]

I'll rename mine a "google" then, consistent with the populare spelling error. [I should never post these things when I'm distracted] But I want 1 with a million zeroes charges, thanks!

I would let you have that power exactly as written.

Just make sure to bring that character sheet with every zero written on it to every single game and be prepared to count every single zero when you arrive.

[Blue Jogger]

I really like this one, but I thought you were going a different direction. Using stretching, couldn't you just make the target hex for the summon next to your outstretched hand, then just snap back?

Well, the rules say "... the Summoned being appears in the nearest unoccupied space where it will fit". Now, most GMs would read "nearest" to be nearest to the caster (not his outstretch hand). But if your GM goes for it, I certainly don't have a problem with it. :cheers:

[fwcain]

2d6 Absorption vs Physical Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (PD) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). {Active} Cost: 40

2d6 Absorption vs Energy Damage (10), applies to STR, PD, ED, and Absorption (ED) simultaneously (+1), delayed return rate 5/month (+2). {Active} Cost: 40

Totally legal, but essentially permanently raises the character's STR, PD, and ED to infinite levels.
Actually, I don't see how this is "infinite." It will eventually reach the point of diminishing returns.

A 2d6 Absorption can add a maximum of +12 Active Points (unless you spend extra points specifically to increase this max., which you didn't do in your write-up). The active cost for one of these Absorptions is 40 points for 2d6. That means you can add an extra +1/2d6 for every increase of +10 Active Points, which in turn will increase your "max absorbed" by another +3 points. Since not everyone is comfortable with calculus :D I'll do the rest of my math in long-hand form.

(base) active=40...2d6, max. of +12 (52 total)
current active=50...2.5d6, max. of +15 (55 total)

Hmmm, looks like we "tap out" at 2.5d6, which is quite a bit sooner than I had expected. (Note that the "+15" adds to the original Active Cost of 40 points, not to the current Active Cost of 50+...) Furthermore, this is presuming that your GM will permit you to increase either Absorption write-up in half-die increments; if he insists on whole-die increments, you'll never get an increase at all...

Thanks,
Franklin

[Hugh Neilson]

I would let you have that power exactly as written.

Just make sure to bring that character sheet with every zero written on it to every single game and be prepared to count every single zero when you arrive.

Can you cite the page reference for that rule? Most of my players keep track of how many charges they've used, not how many they have left. I'll need a pretty big scratch pad either way though...:)

[Flames]

I just had a player submit a most disturbing write-up for a Champions character. (at least for me)

It's a ghost-like figure that has Extra-Dimensional Movement to some ghostly plane, and then has a ridiculous attack power with the Transdimensional Advantage, coupled with Transdimensional perception powers for targeting.

He would be able to just sit in his ghostly dimension all day clobbering anyone he likes with practically zero chance of reprisal. He is, for all intents and purposes, 100% invisible and desolid all the time. Only someone who has his powers in reverse can get at him.

Needless to say, I told him "Not on your life." There's a STOP sign on the Transdimensional stuff for a reason, I explained.

[OzMike]

I am a 150pt ninja dude. I have duplication that lets me create exact copies of myself. I am a 350 pt character (normal starting level in champions). How many duplicates is that?

67,108,864.

Thats a lot of ninjas.

I am the same as above, but slightly less powerful - say 100 pts.

How many is that?

68,719,476,736

That's right - I've got your election result right here.

Or for pure power...

for 350 pts you can purchase a single Multiform that allows you to transform into a character worth 1050 points! And you only have 150 points of disadvantages.

Breakdown is 210 pts for the form cost, 140 pts for the extra points above 150 disad points.

And that's without limitations or anything to reduce the cost. Like extra time. Charges.

Hows them apples?

[Lucius]

I just had a player submit a most disturbing write-up for a Champions character. (at least for me)

It's a ghost-like figure that has Extra-Dimensional Movement to some ghostly plane, and then has a ridiculous attack power with the Transdimensional Advantage, coupled with Transdimensional perception powers for targeting.

He would be able to just sit in his ghostly dimension all day clobbering anyone he likes ….

You mean anyone he DISLIKES.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary points out that people he likes get the Transdimensional Aid and Healing powers.

[Funksaw]

RKA 2d6; Area of Effect, Nonselective, 8" Radius (AOE Radius +3/4), Continuous (+1); MegaScale 1"=100KM (+3/4) <105 AP>; OAF (Nuclear Bomb, -1)

[Funksaw]

It's what we get to deal with in the U.S. every four years. A month-plus of nothing but inane commentary on what politicians are pretending to be. I give you ELECTION BRAIN DRAIN.

Drain INT 4d6, Trigger (Election Day) (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4) (120 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Month, -5), 1 Recoverable Charge which Recovers every >1 Season (-3 1/4), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4)

I would totally allow this and my indeed steal this as a plot device should I ever run a campaign.

[AnotherSkip]

Base with flight, (possibly some life support) and 1064 1d6 RKA, 5x penetrating, megascale on range.
1064 Computers built with all abilities needed to fire guns but like 1 speed, 10 Dex etc.... Skill levels for OCV.

you could fit this on a 100 point character....

and yeah it is a cable clone....

[DocMan]

Any movement power (with possible exception of tunneling), Megascale 8+ levels, Usable as a weapon.

Doc

[cortex007]

major transform anything to anything with cumulative, variable avantage (ego or body transformation) , penetrating and autofire ;)

[Marcus Impudite]

major transform anything to anything with cumulative, variable avantage (ego or body transformation) , penetrating and autofire ;)
Under 5th Ed, Transform no longer needs the Cumulative advantage, so consider trading it in on a Partial Transform (+1/2). ;)

[MindWyrm]

Damn, that's clever. I couldn't believe this power was legal, but I couldn't find anything in FREd that explicitly forbids it.

There's a bit in the Rules FAQ that warns about it, but it is only a warning:



As a GM, I would rule that the maximum you could raise the Absorption would be the original maximum, so you could turn your 2d6 into a 4d6 Absorption, and give yourself a max of 24 points for STR, PD, and ED (though PD and ED would be halved), but no more than a 12 max for the Absorption. That rule seems arbitrary to me though (and it makes the power construction a little pointless, although it might be a cheaper way to increase the max): If it increases the max for STR, PD, and ED, it should increase the max for Absorption too. I think I'd have a hard time convincing a player that he couldn't build his power that way and get the effect you described.


But wait a moment... Don't the points absorbed have to pay the cost for the advantages of the power/stat they are applied to? If so, a single dice of this absorption power would be 20 points, which is beyond the max of the original absorption which could therefore never add an additional dice.

Even if you allow the addition of half dice, that first half would cost 10 points... thus bumping the maximum to 15 which is still not enough to buy the second half dice. As you approach the required 20 points, you are not gaining enough "extra" points to make it all the way to 20.

Welcome to Zeno's Paradox.

[MindWyrm]

Oops... fwcain beat me to my post....

Note to self... always read the whole thread before posting.

[Shadow Hawk]

Teleportation, extradimensional (one other dimension), usable against others, at range, area affect one hex.
"Here's your handbasket, have a nice trip!"

[Hyper-Man]

Teleportation, extradimensional (one other dimension), usable against others, at range, area affect one hex.
"Here's your handbasket, have a nice trip!"

That is almost exactly what Toyman used vs. Superman in an episode of Justice League Animated. To everyone else it appeared that Toyman disintegrated him but in fact he was sending everything thousands of years into the future. Superman was able to return to the present with the help of the last human alive - the imortal Vandal Savage.

[Heckus]

Back under 4th edition we always joked about "Instant Change" Useable Against Others, At Range, To any outfit. You could put as many advantages as you wanted on it, it was only 10 points base. The villain was dubbed the "Revealer" and he'd go around zapping heroes back into their civilian IDs or worse....in hula girl outfits. Would be particularly funny against power suit guys.

I like to think that's why they changed it to a transformation attack in 5th Ed.

[Heckus]

Oh, and I did have a player once try to buy 512 ninja henchmen. I said no. :thumbdown

[Stochastic]

I know we've done uncontrolled before. But here's one for a 75 Active Point limit campaign.

Speed 6

Stink Reserve: Endurance Reserve 745 end, 1 rec. (75 Active Points) 75 Real Cost.

The Stinky Curse; 1d6 Ranged Killing Attack, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Does BODY (+1), Continuous (+1), AVLD (Smell/Taste Flash Defense; +1) (75 Active Points) 75 Real Cost.

You could give it a pool for 705 phases, or 23 and 1/2 minutes for a speed 6, dealing a Standard Effect of 2115 - 705(Smell/Taste Flash Defense).

Obviously, this attack would not work against Doctor Noseplug.

[Pariah]

That is almost exactly what Toyman used vs. Superman in an episode of Justice League Animated. To everyone else it appeared that Toyman disintegrated him but in fact he was sending everything thousands of years into the future. Superman was able to return to the present with the help of the last human alive - the immortal Vandal Savage.

I just watched that episode, not more than two days ago. Nice! :thumbup: