Sword-Gloves

[Michael Hopcroft]

I forget the name of the weapon, but there is a sword that is fastened to a mail glove that I remember from another game. It cannot be dropped without losing the glove (which presumably goes up the forearm some length for stability), but can be broken like a normal sword.

I thought it was called a Manopole, but I couldn't find the word anywhere so I don't know if it's accurate, or whether the weapon really existed. It's not common and is not of massive utility, but I was thinking of using it as a villain's signature weapon and want to know how to rate it.

[Blue Jogger]

Perhaps it is a Pata?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pata_(weapon)

[Shadowsoul]

This is not quite the weapon you're looking for but might provide an amusing alternative.

Lantern Shield. (http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/essays/the-lantern-shield-a-peculiar-medieval-weapon.htm)

[Burrito Boy]

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a locking gauntlet. It's a guantlet with a plate extending from the fingers that locks onto a pin on the wrist. I'm not sure how it stays locked since I can't find any good descriptions, but here's a link to a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Locking_Gauntlet_by_Wendelin_Boeheim.jpg

Nope, Michael Hopcroft and Blue Jogger were right. Manople and pata. Here's a discussion about them on NetSword: http://www.netsword.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000078.html

I can't find a picture of the manople but from what I've seen on google, the pata really fits the bill. By the way, make sure you type in pata sword because pata alone brings up a lot of useless results. Here's one result - a short blog about Witchblade with pictures of and information about the pata: http://thedarkblade.wordpress.com/2007/07/12/a-bewitching-blade/

[mayapuppies]

And we have the Pata as it exists within the world of Kamarathin

Pata: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (37 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 14 (-1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1 REA Only To Determine Who Goes First In A Phase; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 11) plus Treat 1's rolled for damage as 2's (3 Active Points) (Real Cost: 3) plus +1 OCV with Block with Pata (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus +10 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs. Disarms; -2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 14 (-1/2), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6)

[Curufea]

It has serious drawbacks though - complete lack of wrist movement for one. So there should be a limitation of "cannot be used with any sword martial art". You're basically limited to thrusting without the power of a spear (ie no wrist angle, no elbow leverage).

Also, as it's far more difficult to wield without wrist movement, all attempts at blocking should be made more difficult. Trust me on this - if you have no wrist, forget about blocking leg shots. It's bad enough with a two handed sword, let alone this useless weapon.

Finally, let me say that tactically - a sword that you can't let go of when you need to, that requires levels of nimbless and dexterity to remove that you aren't likely to have after half an hour of fighting and numbing blows to your limbs and hands - is not really a good idea.

[mayapuppies]

It has serious drawbacks though - complete lack of wrist movement for one. So there should be a limitation of "cannot be used with any sword martial art". You're basically limited to thrusting without the power of a spear (ie no wrist angle, no elbow leverage).

Also, as it's far more difficult to wield without wrist movement, all attempts at blocking should be made more difficult. Trust me on this - if you have no wrist, forget about blocking leg shots. It's bad enough with a two handed sword, let alone this useless weapon.

Finally, let me say that tactically - a sword that you can't let go of when you need to, that requires levels of nimbless and dexterity to remove that you aren't likely to have after half an hour of fighting and numbing blows to your limbs and hands - is not really a good idea.
Well yeah, but it looks cool! :yes:

[Curufea]

Well yeah, but it looks cool! :yes:

I'd take practical over cool anyday :)

Which is why I loved the description of Carrot's sword in Guards! Guards! (or was it another book?) by Terry Pratchett.

[Korvar]

It's bad enough with a two handed sword, let alone this useless weapon.

Given that it was widely used, it can't have been "useless". It might not use the same techniques as other swords, but useless weapons don't survive.

[Curufea]

It wasn't widely used, quickly falling into the niche of "instead of a lance only". Otherwise it would have actually spread to areas other than just one religious group in northern India.
It's a minor Indian weapon and didn't survive except as a relic.

Just like other useless weapons we still have antique versions of, or recreations of.

So you have a fairly strange idea of where the idea of it being widely used was "given" from. Except possibly as "given how widely used it is in fantasy films because it looks cool".

Here's an original-
http://arms2armor.com/store/product727.html

Hmm, in doing further research (looking at the antique as well as re-enactment discussion forums) it turns out it also has the further flaw of a small to non-existant tang.
Meaning high stress levels between the blade and the gauntlet (or hilt on a normal sword) - the prime area of breakage in swords (assuming forging without error on the blade).

[mayapuppies]

But, but, but it's cool?

hehe, even my crunchy-self adds a touch of fantasy to my fantasy worlds so I likes it as a novelty. It fits with the races prediliction to weapons that are similar in 'feel' such as the Katar.

Your technical evaluation is dead-on, however.

[Killer Shrike]

Real vs Fantasy, the eternal debate.

Personally, I dont like it because it seems kitschy and impractical, but I can see the appeal for those who prefer form over function.

[Manic Typist]

Don´t forget the Rule of Cool people.

[Killer Shrike]

Don´t forget the Rule of Cool people.

Never heard that before...I like it.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Don´t forget the Rule of Cool people.

All the cool villains are wielding Patas. Why won't you?

[Manic Typist]

Never heard that before...I like it.

TV-tropes.com

I´d provide a link, but I´ve already killed four hours or so going through your site today, and I think if I went to this site I´d wake up sometime tomorrow without having done ANY work.

[Kristopher]

Personally, I loath the "rule of cool" with a white-hot, burning fire to rival that of one thousand stars. No amount of cool excuses stupid or impossible.

[mayapuppies]

Such as...ANIME! :bmk:

[Kristopher]

Such as...ANIME! :bmk:

Not all anime is like that.

And in some cases, something is so clearly not intended to be realistic, and is done in just the right way, that it doesn't set off my "disad" over this.

What sets it off is something that seems to be... dishonest... that puts on a show of being realistic while hiding its flaws -- the homework that the creators didn't do -- behind a lot of "kewl".

[mayapuppies]

What sets it off is something that seems to be... dishonest... that puts on a show of being realistic while hiding its flaws -- the homework that the creators didn't do -- behind a lot of "kewl".
Ah. much like the creators of CthulhuTech's fascination with Ninja's and Katana's.

[Manic Typist]

Eh, I´m only ok with the Rule of Cool when it´s obvious that it´s openly being invoked.

I.E. We know this is unrealistic or even stupid, but just sit back and enjoy the sheer awesome imagery, alright?

[Fitz]

I had the opportunity to play with a real pata when I was working at a museum, some years ago. It was fairly unwieldy, but it had a reasonable tang (the tang joined the hand-grip, so the fingers went either side of it. I could see it being usable as a cavalry weapon, used like a Napoleonic heavy cavalry sword (i.e. for skewering, with slashing secondary) but as a melee weapon I think the lack of wrist movement would be problematic.

The weapons curator said that they were used largely for crowd control rather than in battle, so it's quite possible that they were specifically designed to look cool and intimidating.

[Curufea]

It's only really a problem if you have players who both want some realism and have some experience with re-enactment. That's fairly rare, and they are often overpowered by the cool :)

It just pays for a GM to realise that a player may at some stage, point out (if another player is annoying them with the Pata) that logically it shouldn't be able to do all the regular sword moves.

Forewarned means the GM isn't caught short :)

[Celt]

When it comes to gaming and cutlery, the ethnic badass factor always adds a DC or other beneficial effect no matter how impractical in the real world. :thumbup:

[BigJackBrass]

When it comes to gaming and cutlery, the ethnic badass factor always adds a DC or other beneficial effect no matter how impractical in the real world. :thumbup:
Yes, this thing has to be worth a bit of an intimidation bonus to some foes, at least. Probably not something to give to anyone prone to enthusiastic gesticulating while they talk, though... :eek:

[Celt]

Yes, this thing has to be worth a bit of an intimidation bonus to some foes, at least. Probably not something to give to anyone prone to enthusiastic gesticulating while they talk, though... :eek:

There's also the element of "anyone crazy enough to use that has to be a awesome!".

OTOH, the three scariest words in cyberpunk are 'improvised monofilament whip' (which I think comes out of the quote of the week thread).

[Michael Hopcroft]

Not all anime is like that.

For example there's the science fiction series Planetes, which presents a very realitsic exploration of living and working in space and the difficulties of clearing away a century of debris from Near-Earth Orbit (where it poses a severe hazard to manned spaceflight).

[teh bunneh]

The blonde-haired knight in Willow had one of these. He gave it to Madmartigan when he died, and M used it to kill General Skullhead-Whassname.

Dang, I used to know all these guys' names. I'mma have to pop that one in the DVD player and refresh my memory! :o

[Bloodstone]

The blonde-haired knight in Willow had one of these. He gave it to Madmartigan when he died, and M used it to kill General Skullhead-Whassname.

Dang, I used to know all these guys' names. I'mma have to pop that one in the DVD player and refresh my memory! :o

Blond guy is Airk

General Kael.

[Curufea]

That's where I remember the sword from in movies - it looks suitably fantastical to fit easily into a genre movie.
Luckily un-named bad guys in movies don't know how to parry a sword, or he would have been dead in seconds.