Summon Singular Creatures

[Eisenford]

I have a player who wants to build a summoner that has (basically) one helper pet out at a time. I look at summon and it seems perfect except that, in the rules for summon you can have as many summoned creatures out as you want at any given time, and there's not really an explicit way in the book to handle this. Any suggestions on a fair way to arbitrate this power?

[ghost-angel]

Limited Power: Only One Creature May Be "Out" At Once -1

[CTaylor]

Depends what you mean. As I understand it, you can only have one creature out at a time per summon effect, if you want more than one you buy the doubling adder. You can buy ten different summons and summon ten things that way.

Handy trick: Summon can be used as a super mind control: buy specific target on a summon and summon a person, beat them in a battle of wills, and they must do whatever you tell them to, up to the number and duration of tasks you've managed to build the summon at. Then you can try another battle of wills at a penalty and do it again. Sure, it's expensive, but it makes a nice supervillain power.

[ghost-angel]

I was assuming they were using the Optional Rule on p224 about being able to use Summon over and over.

However, yes per normal the Max Number you can Summon at once also equals the Max Number you can have summoned total.

[Eisenford]

Ok I think I've got it:

The character is a "magical girl" who has a stable of magic creatures from another world that she wants to summon. She only wants one out at a time. If I'm reading this correctly, the 5 point adder is the modifier that regulates how many summons you have out on the field at any one time. The advantage Expanded Class changes the amount of creatures that CAN BE summoned through each application of the power. So we'll build say a 150 point summon, then expand the class to "magical creatures" for +1/4, then combine that with slavishly loyal +1(or probably can get away with just +1/2 loyal) and Specific Being +1.

Thanks for your input, thanks Steve Long for putting me in the right direction.

[ghost-angel]

Ah - yes, that would be what you want.

[Outsider]

Hm... I didn't realize multiple uses of Summon to bring in multiple creatures beyond what could be summoned all at once was an optional rule!

If that option is in effect, then it is a limitation on the power, and was thinking it would basically be "1 recoverable charge" on the summon, with the recovery being to dismiss the previously summoned creature.

[ghost-angel]

It's a useful Optional Rule, I have a write-up around here somewhere for a Robot Factor in a Base that would utilize it.

[Killer Shrike]

You might also really be looking for a character more like this...

Mythic (http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/Mythic/Mythic_KSv1.HTML) -- "summoning" as a SFX vs the power "Summon"

[Blue Jogger]

Hm... I didn't realize multiple uses of Summon to bring in multiple creatures beyond what could be summoned all at once was an optional rule!

If that option is in effect, then it is a limitation on the power, and was thinking it would basically be "1 recoverable charge" on the summon, with the recovery being to dismiss the previously summoned creature.

It is a bit of a problem with Summoning. If have "Summon (1) Kobold" and I have 8 charges, I should be able to get 8 kobolds.

If, however, I have "Summon (250) Kobolds" should I really get the -1 limitation because I can only do it FOUR times per day? If not, can I really just keep Summoning another 250? Either answer seems wrong, for different reasons.

[Killer Shrike]

Yes, the inflexibility of Summon is unfortunate. Long ago I suggested a couple of Advantages to increase the flexibility of Summon.

Variable Summon (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9299&highlight=summon)


I should do a formal write up.

[ghost-angel]

It is a bit of a problem with Summoning. If have "Summon (1) Kobold" and I have 8 charges, I should be able to get 8 kobolds.

If, however, I have "Summon (250) Kobolds" should I really get the -1 limitation because I can only do it FOUR times per day? If not, can I really just keep Summoning another 250? Either answer seems wrong, for different reasons.

Under normal rules if you have Summon 250 Kobolds you can only ever have 250 "in play" at once, maximum. So a Charges Limitation could actually be Limiting, if you're using them to (for example) buff up an army you can summon more as they get killed off, but with Charges you can only ever Activate the Summon X Times; as opposed to Summoning 10 here, 25 there, 100 then, 4 now. . . and so on at whim.

The Optional Rule would, in fact, allow you to Summon millions of Kobods, Activating Summon Phase after Phase, 250 at a time. In this case the Charges is Still a Limitation because you do in fact end up with a Maximum Cap of (in this example of 250 Kobolds and 8 Charges) 1600 Kobolds.

In both Standard and Optional Rule formats the Charges are a Limitation off the base capability of the Power.

Whether that's abusive to a specific game or not, that's a call for the Group in question.

[CTaylor]

It is a bit of a problem with Summoning. If have "Summon (1) Kobold" and I have 8 charges, I should be able to get 8 kobolds.

You do, just one at a time. The 8 charges is a limitation because it prevents you from summoning more than 8 in a given time period. Ordinarily you could have as many kobolds summoned as it takes you time to finish the summoning and dismiss them. With the limitation, you can only do it 8 times.


If, however, I have "Summon (250) Kobolds" should I really get the -1 limitation because I can only do it FOUR times per day?

Yes. Because you're limited by how many times a day you can summon your 250 kobolds. Summoning 250 of any given creature costs you 40 more points than the base summoning cost. You already paid for how many you're summoning. If those 250 kobolds go away or die, you can't do it again that day no matter how hard you try. Summons are pretty short term, for most tasks.

If you had the 8 charge summon of 1 kobold you wouldn't get your instant army... but you'd have that summon available to you 7 more times through the day, and that flexibility is worth points. The charges limitation is a separate cost issue from the summon. You already paid to summon a ton of guys, or less to summon fewer. Charges just tells you how often you can use the power.