STR Min

[Confusinator]

So I'm perusing through the weapon charts in FRED, preparing to run a game in a couple of weeks, and my eyes happen to stray across the STR min for a M-1 Garand. 15! The equivalent of picking up a piano, according to the STR chart.

Now, I will be the first to say that our boys were lean n mean, but I don't think anyone would suspect Audey Murphy of moonlighting as a one man piano mover.

And when you compare the STR min from rifle and assault rifle to shotgun, you really see a disparity. I would venture that it takes a bit more strength to wield a 12 gauge than it does a 30-06.

[Monolith]

Sometimes the STR chart and STR Minimums do not always agree. Very few people can pick up a piano, but almost anyone can shoot the M-1 Garand. When dealing with ranged weapons STR Minimum is more an affront to accuracy than brute STR required to use it. The average, 10 STR character can shoot the M-1 but the character will have to deal with the inaccuracy modifiers due to his below minimum STR.

As the character continues using the weapon he learns to get better with it. This would best be portrayed by the character buying Penalty Skill Levels with the M-1 to show that his accuracy has increased even though his STR has not.

[Toadmaster]

STRMIN is an area HERO has traditionally run into a problem with. Generally the STRMIN is based on the point cost of the weapon, this is nice for balance but does not always make sense from a realistic point of view. As mentionaed in the post above in the case of weapons STRMIN relates to the STR required to use the weapon well, in the case f the M1 a 10 Str (normal) would suffer a -1 to accuracy, this does become a little strange if you think about it too much, STRMIN has also tended to be increased as the weapons weight increases where in fact if STRMIN is recoil this should be the opposite and why should a heavy weapon be harder to use from a prone braced position. So don't think about it too hard.

As to the 12 Gauge and .30-06 I belive they are pretty close to the same value if you look on a chart comparing recoil energy, its just that shotguns use faster burning powders and so the impact is deleivered to your shoulder more abruptly, much as a semi auto weapons recoil "feels" lighter than a bolt gun, because it is delivered over a slightly longer period.

I'm playing around with some alternate methods of figuring STRMIN but still have a way to go.

[Talon]

Don't forget that not meeting the STR Min for a weapon is not a death sentence. -1 OCV is a small price to pay for the ability to dish out severe damage; take the penalty and deal with it. :)

For example, I had a 13 STR Fantasy Hero character who regularly used a greatsword -- the -1 for STR Min cancelled out the +1 OCV (this was 4th Edition), leaving her with a 2d6 weapon for net -0 OCV. Definitely worth it.

IMO, this is /more/ realistic rather than less -- for most people, a machine gun is less accurate due to it being more bulky.

[Toadmaster]

Was looking through Fred about STRMIN earlier and forgot a little tidbit that might make that 15 STRMIN more acceptable, using a weapon braced reduces the STRMIN by 5, so that Garand becomes STRMIN 10, if you consider just standing out there loosely holding a Garand at the shoulder a -1 OCV for the typical shooter may not be far off, remember most of us have experince sitting at a firing range slumped over a bench (braced and or set) not blazing away on a battlefield. If you think about walking (standing still would be braced or set I always mix those two up) and firing that rifle from the shoulder or hip -1 OCV is actually pretty kind.

[SirViss]

Originally posted by Toadmaster
... using a weapon braced reduces the STRMIN by 5...

Would that be mentionned under the Brace Maneuver itself, or somewhere else? (Don't have the book handy.)

[Toadmaster]

its under STRMIN pg 376-377 ish I think.

[SirViss]

We're both right (sort of). There is a reference to it under the Brace Maneuver, and it is mentionned under the STR min, but that is mentionned on pp327-328

[Toadmaster]

What you don't consider 50 pages off ishy :D

[Toadmaster]

I just want to thank you for posting this thread, I thought STRMIN was far more broken than it actually is, funny how when I re-read the book I find things I didn't see before. Based on point value I was looking at a 30 STRMIN for a .50 cal rifle, and thought I would have to develop some house rules, but after re-reading the STRMIN section I see that I can drop 5 STRMIN for Braced and another 10 for using a Bipod, if I toss in another 2 or 3 for the muzzle brake that drops it down to 12-13, quite reasonable for such a big rifle and with a STRMIN in the 27-28 range firing on the move from the shoulder forces it to be used from the ground as it should. I'm also considering adding as a house rule a side effect of 1d6 Normal attack for each full 5 points the STRMIN exceeds your STR, some of the really big rifles have been known to cause serious injuries including broken bones, it would add a little more incentive to stop and brace those .600 Nitro double rifles before taking a shot.

[Confusinator]

For looking up the rule, and clarifying my misunderstanding.

*big group hug herodom*