Seeking advice: Unusual Animate Dead

[CorpCommander]

Ok I am converting a D20 module over to Hero. In it there is a sorcerous necromancer that animates an army of skeletons. Her means consists of taking bones, inscribing them with special runes and special ink.

I am thinking that this sounds like a transform. Turning bones + ink into a skeletal thrall. I just want to make sure I am doing this right. As always I suspect there are many ways to do it. Its doesn't feel like a summon (though FRED pg 153, last para makes me think it might be.) She has to have the bones and prepare them. Say 5 minutes of time. Lets assume that a skeleton has 5 body. 2D6 should be enough to transform it in one go. No?

The result is an automaton of about 200 pts. (undead aren't cheap!) I clearly need to transform SPIRIT - that is the motivating force. I don't think I need to transform MIND as this thing isn't going to operate on it's own. I also don't think I am going to transform BODY... or do I? If the target has more body than the source would I need to include that?

Is it Minor (functional changes) or Major (total change?)

FRED pg. 153 under Creating Objects gives some advice about not allowing transform to create unbalancingly useful/powerful objects. I assume this is for say turning pebbles into ATOM BOMBS.

Finally, such thralls as created with transform... are the susceptible to having the transform drained thus rendering them back into bones?

This isn't a power the PC's are going to get. However they could potentially learn it (at least the party sorcerer could). What do you think of my approach and what pitfalls should I be aware of.

Here are the possibilites:
<hr>
Animate Dead: Transform 6d6: Skeleton into Thrall (Major) (90 Active Points); Extra Time 5 Minutes (-2), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), OAF Fragile Expendable (Focus: skeleton; Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1 1/2), All Or Nothing (-1/2)
Cost: 17
END: 9
<hr>
Animate Dead: Summon 300-point, Expanded Class of Beings Very Limited Group (+1/4), Amicable Slavishly Devoted (+1) (135 Active Points); Extra Time 5 Minutes (-2), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), OAF Fragile Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1 1/2)
Cost: 28
END: 13

[Old Man]

Just a couple months ago I was running a necromancer PC that could animate dead. I went with the Summon option, simply because it came out cheaper than the Transform did. Plus it's closer to the true effect.

Ordinarily I would tell you not to sweat the numbers if it's just going to be an NPC power. Evil sorcerer wiggles his fingers, poof, skeleton. If you're going to let the PC have the spell, though, just make sure there is some limitation on the number of skeletons he can raise. Summon is broken in the sense that it is incredibly cost effective to summon hordes of cheap beings. My own version required a fresh corpse to animate--not that limiting, but enough to stop my PC from commanding a skeleton army that extends over the horizon.

Force a time limit on the animate, too--I did some pretty annoying things just by having zombies follow me around all the time...

[Markdoc]

I'd go with the summon normally, but if you have covered the extra points needed to make the automaton via transform then that seems OK too.

Two points: transform needs some way of being reversed. Destroying the runes or natural healing (after a few days, the skeleton starts to fall apart again) would both seem logical.If you wnat a huge army choose the first option, if you want the power to be mmore limited choose the last option: it prevents the caster being able to generate a vast army, since he/she will reach a limit between how fast they can be created and how fast they fall apart.
Secondly, yes: dispel/drain will also take them out, although the high active points cost will make this less of a concern.

cheers, Mark

[Nightshade]

This seems like a summon with an expendible Focus, gestures (inscribing the rune), extra time, incantations, and anything else you want in there.

As GM, I would rule that transform would not allow animation. Sure you can make the bone into a skeleton, but to make it move requires something else. In effect, you would also have to Transform the inanimate object into an animate. Therefore, the Transform would be physical and spiritual, which would get rather expensive anyway.

In addition, Transform technically doesn't give any sort of control, which is something the villain needs to make it work, and is inherent to Summon.

All around, I'd go with the Summon over the Transform.

Nightshade

[Earen]

I have to agree here that this is a Summon for the reasons already stated and a couple new ones:

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Transform will not create even an automaton's limited mind or spirit.
Summon already has rules for keeping the skeletons in thrall, Transform does not.
"However, one-fifth of any points not compensated for by new Disadvantages must be added to the target's BODY, point for point, to determine how difficult it is for the character to accomplish the Transform. (In short, add [[Points Added-Disadvantages Added]/5] to the target's BODY.)" p153 of FREd, under the heading "Adding Or Removing Abilities".
In the case of the Transform, I would not allow the Focus to be termed "Expendable" because you would get it back when the Transform healed back or was changed back or what have you.
And you even point it out in your own post: "Characters cannot ... Transform inanimate objects into living beings (that's a special effect of Summon)" p153 of FREd, under "Transform and Other Powers". An automaton, no matter how mindless, qualifies as a living being in my book.
[/list=1]

Basically, my rule of thumb is ... if it makes my brain hurt trying to figure out how to make a power fit what you're trying to do ... there's probably something simpler. Summon is much simpler ... it already does what you're trying to do ... Summon undead to work for you. And it doesn't make my brain hurt ;)

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Earen
In the case of the Transform, I would not allow the Focus to be termed "Expendable" because you would get it back when the Transform healed back or was changed back or what have you.


just a quibble, but the focus is expendable because after I create my first skeleton, I can't create a second with THE SAME SKELETON! :D I will keep expendible on the summon as well since this seems to be the way to go.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Old Man]

Should probably throw Incantations, Gestures, Concentrate and/or Skill Roll on there too, while you're at it. At least for the PC version. 28 points is really expensive.