Fog

[jtelson]

So I'm considering a campaign set in 1890's London so I'm curious how people have handled Fog as an environmental effect in general and perhaps how they've described it in play to marry system effect to i game application.

[Sean Waters]

So I'm considering a campaign set in 1890's London so I'm curious how people have handled Fog as an environmental effect in general and perhaps how they've described it in play to marry system effect to i game application.

Jack the Ripper? Victorian Superheroes?

:)

My Jack turned out to be a Chinese Fog Demon, as it happens, which I built as a Change environment, something like this:

London Fog: 69 active 34 real
Change Environment 256" radius, -1 to Hearing Group PER Rolls, -3 to Sight Group PER Rolls, Long-Lasting 1 Hour, Multiple Combat Effects (69 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1)

The fog, once created (it takes 5 minutes to thicken up and form) lasts an hour - but of course very often it is overlaying existing fog, so all it does is thicken up an existing fog patch. on a clear night, however, a flier can see that it is a circular area, and can aim for the centre...

[jtelson]

Jack the Ripper? Victorian Superheroes?

:)


This is a little long winded so please bear with me (is that the right bear?), two members of our group regularly attend Gen-Con, so while they're away I try to run something different - Last year I started a 1950's OSI Atomic Horror game that's a bit over-the top (Players ended up defending Santa's Workshop from Space Orcs); Anyway - at the beginning of the year I started working on a follow-up for August - something about Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio while I was watching Fringe and I was struck with the notion the Biological Horror is the Atomic Horror of the 2000's, just as Computer Horror was in the 80's, this led inexorably to the 1890's and Electric Horror (There was then a brief foray into Bibliographic Horror with Johannes Gutenberg, Crossbow Horror with Urban II, Fire Horror with Prometheus, and then I ran out of rum)

So to make a long story short <pause>

The Chi (kai) Dossiers, the chronicles of Scotland Yard's famed 22nd division a game of electric horror

[Sean Waters]

This is a little long winded so please bear with me (is that the right bear?), two members of our group regularly attend Gen-Con, so while they're away I try to run something different - Last year I started a 1950's OSI Atomic Horror game that's a bit over-the top (Players ended up defending Santa's Workshop from Space Orcs); Anyway - at the beginning of the year I started working on a follow-up for August - something about Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio while I was watching Fringe and I was struck with the notion the Biological Horror is the Atomic Horror of the 2000's, just as Computer Horror was in the 80's, this led inexorably to the 1890's and Electric Horror (There was then a brief foray into Bibliographic Horror with Johannes Gutenberg, Crossbow Horror with Urban II, Fire Horror with Prometheus, and then I ran out of rum)

So to make a long story short <pause>

The Chi (kai) Dossiers, the chronicles of Scotland Yard's famed 22nd division a game of electric horror

Oh I like that.

[prestidigitator]

One thing I've done is determine maximum visibility to normal sight, double range penalties to sight out to that distance, and make sight Per rolls impossible outside of that distance. Ultraviolet Perception should be less penalized, but I haven't run into that circumstance in the game. Probably I'd do something like double the visibility distance and increase penalties by only half again rather than double.

[Sean Waters]

An alternative, cheap version might be:

London Fog; 15 active 12 real
Darkness to Sight Group 1" radius, Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) (15 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (You can see and hear but in an attenuated fashion and only at short range; -1/4)

Which, IMO, demonstrates a lot of what is wrong with megascale :)

[jtelson]

An alternative, cheap version might be:

London Fog; 15 active 12 real
Darkness to Sight Group 1" radius, Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) (15 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (You can see and hear but in an attenuated fashion and only at short range; -1/4)

Which, IMO, demonstrates a lot of what is wrong with megascale :)

Well yeah, megascale is one of those things you really have to sell me on as a GM if you're a player but since I'm looking for the Environmental Effect of London fog and not so much a character generated fog power - cost is, as they say, no object (Although knowing how it's built could be important for other character generated abilites). I'll likely end up defining it by hex (1" of fog is...)

[Utech]

A couple more things you might want to consider about fog:

If you spend a lot of time out in the fog, you get damp. You get chilled. These could be ignored, but they make for interesting "atmosphere" (pardon the pun) notes for your players and might actually have an impact on the game. An investigator might take note of how damp someone's clothing has become and deduce how long that person was out in the fog. Someone's health might be endangered by the chill. Water might bead up on surfaces and make them slippery.

Fog can be depressing. Consider minuses to some rolls after spending too much time in the fog.

Light can make fog even more confusing. Bright halos appear around light sources and make it even more difficult to make things out.

Fog not only hides things from your characters, it hides your characters from other things. Clever investigators can take advantage of the fog (bonus to Concealment, Stealth, etc.) Investigators might also stumble upon things that would otherwise have run from the investigators (rats, cockroaches, dogs, etc.)

[rjcurrie]

According to 5er, page 440, basic fog is -1 to PER Roll and suggests increasing the penalty for thicker fog.

[Trebuchet]

RJ is right; fog definitely affects more than just sight. I'd say the classic London pea-souper (which was really smog more than fog; it was a mixture of man-made smoke and natural fog) would be a pretty significant penalty to Hearing and Smell as well as Sight. It could actually get nasty enough to kill people with breathing problems.

I'd do it with a Change Environment rather than Darkness.

[Sean Waters]

Darkness has the advantage, as a game device, that how much you can see and hear is entirely up to the GM, who can impose set or variable penalties for PER, or just rule 'you can not do it'.

Some excellent points made about the additional effects of fog, but not sure how closely you need to model 'dampness' - if you've just swum through a river you'll be wet - not need to model that.

London fog, of course, WAS a significant health hazard, so perhaps a small wide area REC suppress might be in order?

[Pattern Ghost]

I usually model dampness like this:

GM: "You're damp."

:D

[Sean Waters]

I usually model dampness like this:

GM: "You're damp."

:D

You can do that?

Cool! I've been using a really complex build of images to model stuff like sensation and even conversation :)

[jtelson]

Damp: Drain Con, Only affects Con Rolls to resist Illness + Drain Running (Can't run in wet clothes/soggy shoes) -2" max + Aid Pre, Only affects Interaction rolls where looking pathertic and bedraggled is a factor (Asking for help form samaritains, etc)?

[McCoy]

Some excellent points made about the additional effects of fog, but not sure how closely you need to model 'dampness' - if you've just swum through a river you'll be wet - not need to model that.
Depends on how many of your foci have taking the "real weapon/armor" limitation. Did you know wet Kelvar provides roughly the same DEF as wet Kleenex?

[Lucius]

Depends on how many of your foci have taking the "real weapon/armor" limitation. Did you know wet Kelvar provides roughly the same DEF as wet Kleenex?

I had no idea, and I was in the military.

Got somewhere online I can read up on that?

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary wonders if that means they therefore coat it with something waterproof - and if not, why not?

[prestidigitator]

Yeah. Hmm. It'd be a surprise to me too. Especially given that kevlar is a large polymer which is water insoluble and is used in many applications where it will get thoroughly wet (bicycle tires, sails, underwater lines, etc.). Sounds unfounded to me. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar

[jtelson]

Glad to hear I don't need to add Drain (All Powers SFX Kevlar) to my Damp effects, that would get expensive...

[McCoy]

Depends on how many of your foci have taking the "real weapon/armor" limitation. Did you know wet Kelvar provides roughly the same DEF as wet Kleenex?


I had no idea, and I was in the military.

Got somewhere online I can read up on that?

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary wonders if that means they therefore coat it with something waterproof - and if not, why not?
Wet Strength of Kevlar 29 Ribbon Parachute Fabrics (http://pdf.aiaa.org/jaPreview/JA/1980/PVJAPRE57899.pdf)

The effects of mosisture on the strength of Kevlar 29 ribbon parachute fabrics was investigated. Individual yarn samples and various fabrics were soaked in water for periods of 15-60 min. Yarn strength did not change; however, fabric strength was reduced. The reductions ranged 3-13% depending on the fabric construction. . .. Other test demonstrated that increased interyarn friction occurs when moisture is present. The result suggest that the moisture-enhanced friction restrains highly loaded filaments from adjusting their position and relieving stress concentrations. . .. [emphasis added]
First, I exaggerated, but a 10% reduction more or less is nontrivial. Second, this is from 1980, it is quite possible improvements have been made.

Just seems to be one of those things that make "real weapon/armor" a disad worth the points.

[edit] Finding several other places where the sentence "It was determined that the penetration resistance of Kevlar was degraded when wet" is repeated, but no cites or figures.

[jtelson]

Wet Strength of Kevlar 29 Ribbon Parachute Fabrics (http://pdf.aiaa.org/jaPreview/JA/1980/PVJAPRE57899.pdf)

First, I exaggerated, but a 10% reduction more or less is nontrivial. Second, this is from 1980, it is quite possible improvements have been made.

Just seems to be one of those things that make "real weapon/armor" a disad worth the points.

[edit] Finding several other places where the sentence "It was determined that the penetration resistance of Kevlar was degraded when wet" is repeated, but no cites or figures.

+ Drain (All 1980's Kevlar based Powers) only up to a 13% reduction of value - That's a decent limit...

[jtelson]

Oh I like that.

Week six of my Savage Summer Project

http://penbrookindustries.com/blog1/2009/07/31/campaign-the-chi-dossiers/