Just to prove I'm not a complete Comeliness Grognard

[nexus]

I do think it could have used a name change to Appearance.

[Sean Waters]

Nomenclature is an important thing, but Hero is the ultimate 'the label means NOTHING, I tell you!' game system. Having said that I like 'Appearance' simply because none of the other characteristics begin with the letter 'A'.

S D C B I E P C P E S R E S

So, we have 3xS, 3xE, 2xC, 2xP, and the rest are unique. We're going to need a few new names (and a total of 26 characteristics so we can just start by writing out the alphabet :)

At the very least the characteristic acronym should spell a rude word :sneaky:

[nexus]

Well Seduction was changed to Charm. I think calling it Appearance would have helped alleviate the notion that characteristic is strictly about sexual appeal. And to be honest, comely is description that is aimed at women (IME) which might explain the "sexist" reaction from some.

[jtelson]

Replace Speed with Quickness, Stun with Grit, Ego with Mental Prowess, Endurance with Tiredness points (?) and Con with Health

[jtelson]

Missed P ...Presence becomes Awesomeness - since Comeliness/Appearance is gone still only 1 A

SDHBIMAPEQRTG

Still not a word but then neither is FASERIP

[Kenn]

Missed P ...Presence becomes Awesomeness - since Comeliness/Appearance is gone still only 1 A

SDHBIMAPEQRTG

Still not a word but then neither is FASERIP

You've never had your face ripped?

[jtelson]

You've never had your face ripped?

Far far too many times, as it happens...

[nexus]

Phase Rip is a truly name in search of a power.

[PhilFleischmann]

Nomenclature is an important thing, but Hero is the ultimate 'the label means NOTHING, I tell you!' game system. Having said that I like 'Appearance' simply because none of the other characteristics begin with the letter 'A'.

S D C B I E P C P E S R E S

So, we have 3xS, 3xE, 2xC, 2xP, and the rest are unique. We're going to need a few new names (and a total of 26 characteristics so we can just start by writing out the alphabet :)
How 'bout this:

STR is changed to "Muscle"
DEX is changed to "Agility"
SPD is changed to "Turns"
PD is changed to "Kinetic Defence"
ED is changed to "Non-kinetic Defence"
END is changed to "Vitality"
OECV is changed to "Force" (as in "The Force")
DECV is changed to Something that Starts with Q (Quiet mind), or H (Hold on sanity, Heart), or L (Littany against fear).

Then we have chars starting with

ABCDEFIKMNOPQRSTV

one each. And that leaves us with nine more letters for optional chars (GHJLUWXYZ).

U = Unchangable (the new name for Power Defense)
H = Hard Headed (the new name for Mental Def)
J = Jumping distance (leaping)
L = Land speed (running)
W = Water speed (swimming)

[schir1964]

Alternative Name Changes:


Strength becomes Force: Measure of force that can be exerted upon the environment (Damage/Lift).
Dexterity becomes Agility: Measure of performing complex physical tasks (Physical Skills). (Initiative should be moved to another characteristic)
Intelligence becomes Insight: Measure of processing information and understanding (Scholar Skills).
Speed becomes Quickness: Measure of movement/performance (Speed/Actions).


Just Suggestions

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

How 'bout this:

STR is changed to "Muscle"
DEX is changed to "Agility"
SPD is changed to "Turns"
PD is changed to "Kinetic Defence"
ED is changed to "Non-kinetic Defence"
END is changed to "Vitality"
OECV is changed to "Force" (as in "The Force")
DECV is changed to Something that Starts with Q (Quiet mind), or H (Hold on sanity, Heart), or L (Littany against fear).

Then we have chars starting with

ABCDEFIKMNOPQRSTV

one each. And that leaves us with nine more letters for optional chars (GHJLUWXYZ).

U = Unchangable (the new name for Power Defense)
H = Hard Headed (the new name for Mental Def)
J = Jumping distance (leaping)
L = Land speed (running)
W = Water speed (swimming)


Genius.

[OddHat]

Hero requires only one stat. Groovy. It measures how Groovy your character is. Skills, powers, talents, perks, and equipment are replced with Cool Stuff. Disadvantages are replaced with Funky, a stat measuring your character's relative Funkiness.

"My character picks the lock."

"How?"

"He's totally Groovy, and he knows Cool Stuff."

"Fair enough. Chug your beer."

(GM and player chug. Player finishes first)

"Braaap. OK, your character was Groovy enough to pick the lock."

[ghost-angel]

You know... I see AA getting a lot of business from one of Oddhat's longer running campaigns...

[OddHat]

You know... I see AA getting a lot of business from one of Oddhat's longer running campaigns...

You introduce a viable alternative to dice rolling, and all people do is pass out and drool on the carpet.

[Sean Waters]

You introduce a viable alternative to dice rolling, and all people do is pass out and drool on the carpet.

Years ago we went round to a friend's house to play DnD (I was GMing) - this was back at school, come to think of it - and I bought a bottle of white rum and a bottle of peppermint cordial on a whim, for refreshments.

Great drink - you can get slaughtered, but your breath stays fresh.

Anyway, next morning when I wake up, the whole party of 4th level characters have Rods of Lordly Might....

[ghost-angel]

*walks away from thread*


Some things... you can touch. But, it's best not to.

[Trebuchet]

Hero requires only one stat. Groovy. It measures how Groovy your character is. Skills, powers, talents, perks, and equipment are replced with Cool Stuff. Disadvantages are replaced with Funky, a stat measuring your character's relative Funkiness.

"My character picks the lock."

"How?"

"He's totally Groovy, and he knows Cool Stuff."

"Fair enough. Chug your beer."

(GM and player chug. Player finishes first)

"Braaap. OK, your character was Groovy enough to pick the lock.":lol:

Reminds me of how a buddy and I played Squad Leader way back when I was in the Army. We'd always play Russian front scenarios, and at the end of each turn the German and Russian player had to drink a shot of schnapps or vodka respectively. Since most of the Squad Leader scenarios ran for 8 - 15 turns, we were usually pretty blasted by the time we finished a game.

We called it "the fog of war." :drink:

[Balabanto]

*walks away from thread*


Some things... you can touch. But, it's best not to.

Well, apparently, someone was doing the touching, and he had a VERY good time.

[bigbywolfe]

Years ago we went round to a friend's house to play DnD (I was GMing) - this was back at school, come to think of it - and I bought a bottle of white rum and a bottle of peppermint cordial on a whim, for refreshments.

Great drink - you can get slaughtered, but your breath stays fresh.

Anyway, next morning when I wake up, the whole party of 4th level characters have Rods of Lordly Might....

You should really cross post this story to the Quote of the Week thread.

[Sean Waters]

You should really cross post this story to the Quote of the Week thread.

There's a Quote of the Week thread?

Who knew?

Well you did, obviously...

[Vondy]

There's a Quote of the Week thread?

Who knew?

Well you did, obviously...

Go Here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3059&highlight=Quote+of+the+Week)

[Sean Waters]

Go Here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3059&highlight=Quote+of+the+Week)

It's such a big world out there :)

[Lucius]

How can anyone be such a regular contributor here, and not know about Quote of the Week?

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary thinks there should be a quote of the strong.

[Sean Waters]

How can anyone be such a regular contributor here, and now know about Quote of the Week?

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary thinks there should be a quote of the strong.

I'm angoraphobic*, so I hardly ever go out :)

*They're damn freaky rabbits, and you never know when they might be lying in wait...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/projectionist/angora-rabbit.jpg
http://corgiknit.blogspot.com/2005/05/mop-or-angora-rabbit.html

[teh bunneh]

I'm angoraphobic*, so I hardly ever go out :)

*They're damn freaky rabbits, and you never know when they might be lying in wait...

Although I mostly just lurk, I hang around up here too you know. :eg:

[PhilFleischmann]

How 'bout this:

STR is changed to "Muscle"
DEX is changed to "Agility"
SPD is changed to "Turns"
PD is changed to "Kinetic Defence"
ED is changed to "Non-kinetic Defence"
END is changed to "Vitality"
OECV is changed to "Force" (as in "The Force")
DECV is changed to Something that Starts with Q (Quiet mind), or H (Hold on sanity, Heart), or L (Littany against fear).

Then we have chars starting with

ABCDEFIKMNOPQRSTV

one each. And that leaves us with nine more letters for optional chars (GHJLUWXYZ).

U = Unchangable (the new name for Power Defense)
H = Hard Headed (the new name for Mental Def)
J = Jumping distance (leaping)
L = Land speed (running)
W = Water speed (swimming)
That just leaves G, X, Y, and Z. So:

G = Language: German
X = PS: Xylophone Player
Y = Multiform into a Yak
Z = SC: Zymurgy

[Sean Waters]

Although I mostly just lurk, I hang around up here too you know. :eg:

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!! They're in here now!

**Runs away and hides**

[Sean Waters]

That just leaves G, X, Y, and Z. So:

G = Language: German
X = PS: Xylophone Player
Y = Multiform into a Yak
Z = SC: Zymurgy

OCD, Phil....:)

[Log-Man]

OCD, Phil....:)
There's nothing wrong with OCD that washing your hands six consecutive times can't cure.

[PhilFleischmann]

There's nothing wrong with OCD that washing your hands six consecutive times can't cure.
I'm not Obsessive-Compulsive. I prefer to say I'm Compulsive-Obsessive. Why? Alphabetical order.

[Sean Waters]

I'm not Obsessive-Compulsive. I prefer to say I'm Compulsive-Obsessive. Why? Alphabetical order.


:rofl:

[JohnTaber]

Well Seduction was changed to Charm.

Didn't know that! Cool. In my games I renamed it Befriend.

[CourtFool]

I will miss Comeliness, but I understand.

Incidentally, Comeliness was one of the things that finally brought me over to Hero from G.U.R.P.S. I was tired of only being Very Handsome. :D

[nexus]

I will miss Comeliness, but I understand.


Well nothing say you can't still use it. Of course that only applies to your games and like minded GMs. Of course using Com or anything else is really the same way.



Incidentally, Comeliness was one of the things that finally brought me over to Hero from G.U.R.P.S. I was tired of only being Very Handsome. :D

It was a reason I picked Hero System over GURPS myself. I'm surprised this half joking thread attracted a much as attention as it did honestly. It still seems like many people care an awful lot positively or negatively about the old char.

[CourtFool]

Resistance to change is human nature. Everyone has things they love about Hero and things they dislike. Any one person's preferences is never going to align perfectly with everyone else's. Why do you think pretty much every role playing game out there is house ruled by someone?

[nexus]

Resistance to change is human nature. Everyone has things they love about Hero and things they dislike. Any one person's preferences is never going to align perfectly with everyone else's. Why do you think pretty much every role playing game out there is house ruled by someone?

I know all of that just myself and others that have expressed regret of over Comeliness being dropped (and argued against in the 6th ed forums) has been pegged "resisting change because they're scared of it" or "obsessing over something minor and insignificant". I'm simply amused that for something so insignificant it seems to stir some strong feelings on both sides of the argument. Personally, I feel its removal takes some value away from the system for me and even if the rest of 6th convinces me to purchase it I'll be adding the Com char back.

[CourtFool]

I apologize if I came off as belittling your feelings. That was certainly not my intent. 'Fear of change' was not meant to dismiss or invalidate how you feel. Change is a very real and very powerful motivator.

I also think that people that post here are invested in this game, otherwise, they would not bother to post here. Just as strongly as you feel that COM is a defining part of the Hero System, I am sure there is at least one other person, who, just as strongly feels it is not.

Since there is still a mechanic within the game to represent how attractive a character can be, my own concerns are lessoned. In all of the games I have played in, I have been the only one to bother to put points into Comeliness. Now, when I use to play G.U.R.P.S. with a different group, there was another player that would pay to be Very Handsome. So I can see valid reasons for it to be relegated to an optional talent.

Obviously, Comeliness plays a very vibrant role in your games. I can not deny that. However, it seems it does not play such an important role in Steve's game. This should, in no way, infer that Steve is saying or even thinking you are doing it wrong. This should also not be viewed as a snap decision or just change for change's sake.

[nexus]

I apologize if I came off as belittling your feelings.


No problem there. I thought you'd misunderstood me.



That was certainly not my intent. 'Fear of change' was not meant to dismiss or invalidate how you feel. Change is a very real and very powerful motivator.

I also think that people that post here are invested in this game, otherwise, they would not bother to post here. Just as strongly as you feel that COM is a defining part of the Hero System, I am sure there is at least one other person, who, just as strongly feels it is not.


Oh more than one.



Since there is still a mechanic within the game to represent how attractive a character can be, my own concerns are lessoned. In all of the games I have played in, I have been the only one to bother to put points into Comeliness. Now, when I use to play G.U.R.P.S. with a different group, there was another player that would pay to be Very Handsome. So I can see valid reasons for it to be relegated to an optional talent.

Obviously, Comeliness plays a very vibrant role in your games. I can not deny that. However, it seems it does not play such an important role in Steve's game. This should, in no way, infer that Steve is saying or even thinking you are doing it wrong. This should also not be viewed as a snap decision or just change for change's sake.

Exactly. My suggestion was to make it optional. Well explicitly optional, everything in the game already is optional. Unfortunately that's not the road taken.

My point was that during the "debates" on the issue there was a great deal of dismissal of the entire as "trivial" and I don't feel it was on either side. Trivial things don't stir up as much contention*. That's all. For example the Hex vs Meters or Seduction renamed Charm issues hasn't generated nearly any heat. I think the "Trivial" label applies more to them the Great Com Wars.

*With the caveat that geeks like to argue so the scale is somewhat different among them. :)

[Trebuchet]

Resistance to change is human nature. Everyone has things they love about Hero and things they dislike. Any one person's preferences is never going to align perfectly with everyone else's. Why do you think pretty much every role playing game out there is house ruled by someone?We don't use any house rules in our Champions campaign. That's more due to the fact we have multiple GMs than an objection to house rules per se, but I doubt we're unique.

[CourtFool]

My point was that during the "debates" on the issue there was a great deal of dismissal of the entire as "trivial" and I don't feel it was on either side.

Ah, yes, then I did completely miss your point and I apologize for that.

[steamteck]

I will miss Comeliness, but I understand.

Incidentally, Comeliness was one of the things that finally brought me over to Hero from G.U.R.P.S. I was tired of only being Very Handsome. :D

That's funny originally way back in the day decades ago. We were going to use HERO for Supers and SF and GURPS for fantasy but the COM vs Perk thing ended up making everything HERO.