Absolute Range Sense... ever use it?

[Pattern Ghost]

The title is pretty much the question. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place, but I can't find a mechanic that's supported by Absolute Range Sense. As far as I can tell, it's only useful in situations where the range of something needs to be known. In most campaigns, I don't see that coming up too often.

Now, if I were building a sniper character, I'd take it for flavor.

So, who uses/has used this talent in game before? Tell me about it. =)

[jtelson]

I've had a couple of characters take it and it has ended up being useful, not necessarily Concealment useful but certainly Gambling useful. It probably helps that I've always combined it with Lightning Calculator, Absolute Time Sense and Eidietic Memory (The Stoker suite after the my first character who had collection in his Pocket Watch Babbage Device) so I've been able to ask for precise velocities, surface areas, volumes and the like.

Generally it's use comes from on-the-fly plans that might require a little more precision than usual or the occasional puzzle that involves spatial clues.

[Utech]

It can be useful for characters who use Leaping or Teleportation as a primary means of transportation. Especially if they often make big "leaps" at small targets.

[bigbywolfe]

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48271

Here's a whole thread on the topic.

[Pattern Ghost]

Thanks for the link, Wolfe. Interesting thread. I had no idea so many GMs didn't allow hex counting.

Or maybe it's a lot of people saying, "If you want to make ARS useful, then don't allow hex counting."

I wonder which? Who here doesn't allow players to count hexes before attacking or moving?

[bigbywolfe]

I think it's more like a lot of GMs don't use hex maps.

I guess I figure if you can glance at the board and see that your six or seven hexes away I’m fine with that. I figure the Character can guesstimate that much difference (wow, ‘guesstimate’ doesn’t set off spell check). But if they’re going “hold on, I gotta see how far they are, that’s a -6 for distance but I have +2 Range I better use such and such attack because I have +OCV with that also...” that’s just getting goofy. You shoot or you don’t shoot, you don’t know that he’s 24 Meters away or whatever.

[Vondy]

Its useful for archers/snipers, characters who do a lot of acrobatic leaping, and their ilk. For others, not so much.

[Hugh Neilson]

One could make it mnore useful. Prohibit counting out hexes before declaring your action unless you have this ability, for example. Others must make decisions based on eyeballing the table. Ditch the hex map in favour of a tape measure, and this becomes even more useful, as only the guy with special range abilities can accurately determine the range to his desired target and the coverage of his AoE attack.

[Sean Waters]

I find it extremely useful for heroic quantity surveyors.







What?

[Hyper-Man]

Its useful for archers/snipers, characters who do a lot of acrobatic leaping, and their ilk. For others, not so much.


This is the way I've used it as well.

I try to use other vague Talents in the same way (like Perfect Pitch, Lightsleep, Environmental Movement and Lightning Calculator).

For the most part, they are just 'bragging rights' abilities.

[prestidigitator]

Also more useful when you're not using a hex map (e.g. for between-encounter adventuring). Setting description, dungeon mapping, etc.

[Sean Waters]

Mechanically, Hero does not care if you know a distance accurately or not so if you take ARS it is up to the GM to make it worth the 3 points in the story.

[Pattern Ghost]

Mechanically, Hero does not care if you know a distance accurately or not so if you take ARS it is up to the GM to make it worth the 3 points in the story.

Yeah, I can find no mechanics concerning it. I don't think I've seen any rules reference to using a fog of war concept on the hex map (if used), even. That's one way to use it, and going with somewhat uncertain distances is an interesting concept. What other ways have you found to make it interesting for your players?

[prestidigitator]

Players doing dungeon mapping is always a very good place to get them on this one. But of course that's usually only in a fantasy setting. Still, it can be sadistically fun. :eg:

[ajackson]

I don't believe I've ever taken ARS, but there are plenty of abilities with no defined combat effect that are still relevant.

[mattingly]

It comes up once in a while in play. Recently, some players used it while in a large Darkness field to fly a certain distance forward before turning down a hallway that their sense told them was there.

A little further back, some players needed to get directly underneath a subway platform by traversing the winding tunnels.

[Hyper-Man]

I've always thought of the following combination of abilities:

Absolute Range Sense
Absolute Time Sense
Bump Of Direction
Eidetic Memory
Lightning Calculator

as a way to model 'on board inertial navigation'.

[Sean Waters]

Yeah, I can find no mechanics concerning it. I don't think I've seen any rules reference to using a fog of war concept on the hex map (if used), even. That's one way to use it, and going with somewhat uncertain distances is an interesting concept. What other ways have you found to make it interesting for your players?

It depends on the game a little, but you can incorporate it as a form of indirect: say you can see a room on a monitor, or even make a hearing sense roll through a wall, you can accurately estimate where an opponent you can not see is standing, and attack (obviously they get the protection of intervening barriers).

Swinging from one building to another is easier if you know what length of rope you will need...

I like HyperMan's inertial guidance :thumbup:

Casing a joint for a robbery is easier if you do not have to actually get a tape measure out...

Anyone else notice haow people have grabbed and run with the phrase 'take ARS?'

[ghost-angel]

I've always thought of the following combination of abilities:

Absolute Range Sense
Absolute Time Sense
Bump Of Direction
Eidetic Memory
Lightning Calculator

as a way to model 'on board inertial navigation'.

Indeed, Abs Range Sense is great for Star Hero and targeting computers.

And I have a Star Hero fighter pilot who has that Talent, it's a great bit of flavor that they know exactly when they're in range. . .

[pinecone]

Thanks for the link, Wolfe. Interesting thread. I had no idea so many GMs didn't allow hex counting.

Or maybe it's a lot of people saying, "If you want to make ARS useful, then don't allow hex counting."

I wonder which? Who here doesn't allow players to count hexes before attacking or moving?

I don't allow it, never have....but when absolute range sense came along, I allow it for the character(s) that have it.

And I play an Archer that has it...so far it's "Flava only"

[Kraven Kor]

I've used it mostly for flavor as well, particularly on cyborgs and drones and whatnot. I've never had a GM who required it for the dramatic instances mentioned here (basically, my GM's have allowed hex counting.)

I have a character in my upcoming Star Hero campaign who has a bionic eye with ARS and ATS as features, and I intend to make it useful on occasion.

[Trebuchet]

I figure ARS would be useful when making Matrix-like leaps between skyscrapers or the like. I'd hate to find out it's 25" away when I'm halfway across and only have 23" of Leaping. :eek:

[Pattern Ghost]

I don't believe I've ever taken ARS, but there are plenty of abilities with no defined combat effect that are still relevant.

I never mentioned combat. Just lack of game mechanics to support the ability.

Edit: Which is to say, I also like non-combat abilities being relevant, so I agree with your post. I was just clarifying that.

[Rapier]

Yes and no.

In theory, we shouldn't use a hex map. It's not like our characters could look at a target and know that stepping forward two hexes would remove the range penalties.

I've played in games where we used a hunk of vinyl instead of a hex map. The only person allowed to use a tape measure was the GM and any character that had ARS.

But for most of us, hexmaps make things simpler.

I've taken it on characters when it is appropriate, regardless if it is useful or not. That's just kind of the way I build characters. If the character has a laser range finder, is a sniper or has some other range sense type thing, they take ARS.

It can also be useful. Jumpy McLeaper has some leaping. Not a huge amount but he's got jumpin skill. He knows he can jump about 10". He is standing at the lip of a chasm and the other side is some distance away. Can he make it? By how much? ARS.

ARS is like any other power, it is what you make of it.