Beating the bell curve

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello one and all.

I've been bouncing around an idea to make super-well more super. As the title suggests, I have anidea in which to beat the bell curve so as to have a better result while not to increase per se the DC to astronomicial levels.

The idea is simple, the character has an automatic base of body done per DC of STR or EB, but Martial Manuevers do not and HA would be based on special effect. Tis is going to be added to the PC normal die role.

Example Brick has 50 STR, his starting body done is 10 bod he rolls bad and gets only 23 stun and 8 bod, he stil does 18 bod ! This also means that if he hits a cop, and doesn't pull his punch, then there is a good chance that the cop is going to be plastered. Also, I think this would be good for advance weapons. Why is Viper using those blasters?

Feel free to comment on this.

P.S. I have not really play tested this-so results are only theoretical! :eek:

[CrosshairCollie]

Last time I did something like this, I simply made a universal rule: non-super beings or equipment took double damage from supers and non-super beings or equipment couldn't hurt supers.

So, Superman punches Solomon Grundy, normal results.
Solomon Grundy punches normal cop, double damage.
Superman tries to break through brick wall, double damage.
Superman tries to break through supervillain base wall made of supertech materials, normal results.
Cop shoots Solomon Grundy, no damage.
Agent with blaster shoots Superman, normal results.

[prestidigitator]

Hmm. I think if the concern is just about an unrealistically low result, then in general I'd just make all or part of the attack Standard Effect rather than actually doubling the result (Standard Effect plus normal damage result). Simply doubling all the damage in the system seems like a pretty extreme change, and you'd better be ready for a very, VERY lethal game.

If you don't want things to be so lethal, maybe consider just making a 10 DC attack do 10 Body damage. Or maybe split the dice into two pools of 5 dice each (two different colors would make it easy), and make it 5 Body plus the Body result of one of the pools (half Standard Effect, half a normal roll).

[Beast]

the rules as is work fine for me
normal walls are 2 def 2 body
normals have 8 body and 2 def

10 dc characters are going to trash any normals and normal construction

if you feel normals are too tough why not just have them at 1/2 a base normal should be
or up the power level of your game

[Ninja-Bear]

the rules as is work fine for me
normal walls are 2 def 2 body
normals have 8 body and 2 def

10 dc characters are going to trash any normals and normal construction

if you feel normals are too tough why not just have them at 1/2 a base normal should be
or up the power level of your game

Two reasons a) I like where the normals are. Although I have considered giving NPCs (but NOT DNPC) Vul 1 1/2 to "super" stuff. b) I'm looking to make super more super without stat inflation. In other words, I'm trying to make say 50 STR more powerful, but keep its upper limit the same.

On that note though it would be easier to make a +4 HA(for brick lets say) only to "beat the bell curve". So my question is how much of a limitation would it be worth? The limitation is that the extra dice cannot exceed the maximum when added to the base DC. Example max a 10 DC can be rolled is (in theory) 60 Stun and 20 Body. So even with the +4 DC, the result cannot exceed the 60 Stun and 20 Body. I figure -1/2, based off No figured characteristics?

Thanks for the imput.

[Ninja-Bear]

Hmm. I think if the concern is just about an unrealistically low result, then in general I'd just make all or part of the attack Standard Effect rather than actually doubling the result (Standard Effect plus normal damage result). Simply doubling all the damage in the system seems like a pretty extreme change, and you'd better be ready for a very, VERY lethal game.

If you don't want things to be so lethal, maybe consider just making a 10 DC attack do 10 Body damage. Or maybe split the dice into two pools of 5 dice each (two different colors would make it easy), and make it 5 Body plus the Body result of one of the pools (half Standard Effect, half a normal roll).

I have thought of that idea too. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Ninja-Bear]

Last time I did something like this, I simply made a universal rule: non-super beings or equipment took double damage from supers and non-super beings or equipment couldn't hurt supers.

So, Superman punches Solomon Grundy, normal results.
Solomon Grundy punches normal cop, double damage.
Superman tries to break through brick wall, double damage.
Superman tries to break through supervillain base wall made of supertech materials, normal results.
Cop shoots Solomon Grundy, no damage.
Agent with blaster shoots Superman, normal results.

Considering giving NPC Vul x 1 1/2 vs "super" but not DNPC though. Any problems though? Also thanks for the input.

[Beast]

I would then go with halving the normal world
a vault door normally has 18 def hardened(hard for a 75 AP cap game to destroy)
just halve it so it is 9 def it will take some time to bust it down but it will happen

you could just say all super powers are AP vs the normal world(not including DNPC's)
and make it a house rule for your universe
I see it as a waste of points vs objects that are already most likely to fall vs my blows(might take a bit longer ,but not much)
the only thing that might worry 50 AP cap characters would be the really big stuff(tanks,battleships,155mm and up artillery)
and this stuff would cause more damage than the supers would


Two reasons a) I like where the normals are. Although I have considered giving NPCs (but NOT DNPC) Vul 1 1/2 to "super" stuff. b) I'm looking to make super more super without stat inflation. In other words, I'm trying to make say 50 STR more powerful, but keep its upper limit the same.

On that note though it would be easier to make a +4 HA(for brick lets say) only to "beat the bell curve". So my question is how much of a limitation would it be worth? The limitation is that the extra dice cannot exceed the maximum when added to the base DC. Example max a 10 DC can be rolled is (in theory) 60 Stun and 20 Body. So even with the +4 DC, the result cannot exceed the 60 Stun and 20 Body. I figure -1/2, based off No figured characteristics?

Thanks for the imput.

[Vondy]

Hmm. I think if the concern is just about an unrealistically low result, then in general I'd just make all or part of the attack Standard Effect rather than actually doubling the result (Standard Effect plus normal damage result). Simply doubling all the damage in the system seems like a pretty extreme change, and you'd better be ready for a very, VERY lethal game.

If you don't want things to be so lethal, maybe consider just making a 10 DC attack do 10 Body damage. Or maybe split the dice into two pools of 5 dice each (two different colors would make it easy), and make it 5 Body plus the Body result of one of the pools (half Standard Effect, half a normal roll).

I allow characters to "take 11" on opposed rolls, or on rolls where there's no pressure on. I also allow characters to "take standard effect" (at 3.5 per DC rounded down) as opposed to making a roll. Its player's option, roll by roll.

[Ninja-Bear]

P.S. my original concept was just to eliminate the 1 = 0 body and rule that 1-5 = 1 body and 6 = 2 body. The more I think about it, the more it seams to be a reasonable increase in superness without overwhelming anyone.

[Sean Waters]

I'm writing a supers scenario at present, and I've decided that people with access to Orgone Energy (the universal energy field upon which the entire structure of reality is built) treat their attacks as NND Does Body, with the defence being 'has superpowers'. Mundane attacks are halved in damage value before being applied to superhero defences. I still want 6d6 RKA tank shells to worry the PCs, but not necessarily smear them.

Superheroes really can blow holes in tanks now. In fact, more or less the only way to stop a super is with another super.

[CourtFool]

How about number 9 of the Nine Ways To Speed Up Combat on pg. 381 of the Revised Edition?

[Ninja-Bear]

I will have to look that up! Thanks!

[Fearghus]

I know other people have weighed in with similar comments but what you are saying sounds like you are increasing the damage a character would do for free. So personally I think it is a bad idea. The system is pretty well balanced as it is with the cost of defense being cheaper than the attack so that attacks aren't instantly fatal. What you are talking about messes with that balance. If you want more normalized results... then use the standard effect rules.

Just my two cents... It just seems to me that this would make attacks overwhelm defenses most of the time. meaning you'd have to spend more points on defense powers and less on attack powers.

[Ninja-Bear]

I know other people have weighed in with similar comments but what you are saying sounds like you are increasing the damage a character would do for free. So personally I think it is a bad idea. The system is pretty well balanced as it is with the cost of defense being cheaper than the attack so that attacks aren't instantly fatal. What you are talking about messes with that balance. If you want more normalized results... then use the standard effect rules.

Just my two cents... It just seems to me that this would make attacks overwhelm defenses most of the time. meaning you'd have to spend more points on defense powers and less on attack powers.

Well what I am aiming for is to make super attacks more super without overwhelming the system. The more I think of it, doesn't someone with 50 str who can lift 25 tons be able to do more damage? Or at least break things more easily? The bell curve is nice but if you go exactly by dice rolls, you'll hardly rice a 4.5 ave daice roll, maybe 5 ave if extremely lucky. plese note though I'm not having the character achieve more than his damage class would allow.

Plus if I go standard effect, then I'll have to pay more points to do damage that theoretically I should be able to do. Now if there was a stadard effect advantage-such as (and I'm really pulling numbers out of thin air) say for a tandard effect roll of 4 ave. then it would be a +1/4 adavantage, I would be cool with it.

(P.S. I hope this doen't come off as snarky, that is not my intention. ;))

[Hugh Neilson]

Plus if I go standard effect, then I'll have to pay more points to do damage that theoretically I should be able to do. Now if there was a stadard effect advantage-such as (and I'm really pulling numbers out of thin air) say for a standard effect roll of 4 ave. then it would be a +1/4 advantage, I would be cool with it.

By the book, Standard Effect is 3 per die, so if you want a standard effect of 4 per die, you buy 1/3 more dice. So if you want your 12d6 attack to always do 48 STUN, you buy 16d6 Standard Effect.

Bu math, average effect is 3.5 per die. I would like Standard Effect to be 3.5 per die. 48 points would then equate to 13.71 d6, so call it 13 1/2d6, standard effect, and I'll throw in the 1/2 point of extra STUN to bring it from 47.5 to 48 for an extra point - so you're paying 69 points for the total. [42 x 68/60 = 47.6; 42 x 69/60 = 48.3]

[prestidigitator]

Well what I am aiming for is to make super attacks more super without overwhelming the system. The more I think of it, doesn't someone with 50 str who can lift 25 tons be able to do more damage? Or at least break things more easily?

Maybe you're looking for Hand Attack. That could bring a character's damage up to par with what you think their Str should be able to do based on lifting capacity. Or even extra Str with a limitation that it doesn't increase lifting ability.