Female/Male Super-Forms

[SimComm]

Hi All,
I'm new to the forum, but a long time watcher :)
Hope you don't mind I get right to my post.
I have a new character coming into the group soon, and it's an interesting concept.
The character is a teenage boy who discovers his grandmother's magic amulet and turns into a super-powered heroine. (Yes, he can change back)
(His grandmother used to be that super-heroine back in the 40's)
However, since nobody has told him how to use the amulet, it's stuck and he's now prone to accidental changes, but wants to use the powers for the good of all.
Power wise, the character is a bit of a brick, with few skills, and the player is also a good mate and knows pretty much how to act politely.
And since the player is a guy, of course she's stunningly beautiful.
I just wasn't sure if I should allow the character, as I didn't want anything too insulting/insensitive popping up (ladies (and me) are present at the gaming table).
I have hopes that it won't get too juvenile, but well, I'm not sure if this is a can of worms I should be opening.
On the other hand, it could be a LOT of fun too...
I'm torn (like always) and I was hoping to get other's inputs.

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to spending time here!
-SC

[Certified]

This reminds me a lot of Rama 1/2 an anime is was none to fond of but that's beside the point. I think who you should talk to is your group, voice your concerns about the character and solicit feedback from the other players see how they will feel about introducing the gender bending brick. Also, if you are seriously worried things might not work out, talk to the character's player have him design a back up character in case this one does not work out. Then even if this character goes a few sessions and you decide it's not a good fit he can swap out for a character with the same experience.

[SimComm]

Certified:
Thanks for your post. I did ask the player to make another character just in case...
As for bringing it up with my group, well, the majority of the players are fairly non-confrontational (heavens knows I can be too...) and I just don't want people's feelings getting hurt for real.
Of course, the other character is a lot LESS interesting (basically sort of like Spider-Man, but with guns and wolverine-style healing), but I suppose it'll be ok too...

Best,
-SC

[Certified]

This seems to be a common problem in the gaming world. We can craft world upon world with characters in the hundreds with personality and quirks and needs with ease, ask us how we feel and suddenly ninety percent of us become mute. Nothing really to add here just an observation. There have been far to many times where I've been guilty of this one too.

[SimComm]

Certified
Nod, having to play Team Mom is hard! Welcome to the club!
Since basically all of my friends are players in the game, the last thing I want is built up tension about a GAME to get in the way of us IRL.
Hmm... Wonder if I'm birdwalking away from the subject too much...

Best,
-SC

[FireTiger]

Hopefully things will go well, there's a lot of plot & comedy potential in a character concept like that one.

If the female form looks the same as that of the original; the possibility of witnesses, former heroes & villains, newspaper & wire photos, newsreel footage and so on from the original's career surfacing that could make the character's life interesting.

If the character's mind doesn't change when the body does you've got some possibilities for amusement. When the character has to consult with the "full time" female members of the hero team about how to avoid giving away the character's real identity, etc..

[novi]

What order to reply in? I don't know that being a being a guy and making an attractive female character are logically related. The female gamers I'm familiar with also like the attractive female characters, thought that doesn't prove anything and- and I'm going off on a Vondy-style rant on logic.

I hate to make assumptions, but I have to imagine that you already have an idea of your group and how they'd respond, and you already have an idea of whether yourself or another player would have a problem. If that's the case, talk about it! Find out if people will accept it, and if not, what aspects concern them, and work to address those.

Of course, if your worried about Mr. New Guy, it's harder to say. Every new player has the potential to be that creepy gamer guy, but he could also be really good. The biggest trick there is to figure out what he wants out of the game and see if it's compatible with the existing group. Does he just want to show up and kick ass? Or does he want to seriously explore gender-identity issues? Or whatever? You don't have to be overt, but don't let it fester. From personal experience, don't just wait for it to get better.

Personally? I say let him in. And for all of your female gamers to get on his case in a friendly way, casually calling him out on the things a teenage boy does not know about being a woman. Within whatever maturity range you are comfortable with.

[Clonus]

And since the player is a guy, of course she's stunningly beautiful.
I just wasn't sure if I should allow the character, as I didn't want anything too insulting/insensitive popping up (ladies (and me) are present at the gaming table).
I have hopes that it won't get too juvenile, but well, I'm not sure if this is a can of worms I should be opening.


Try it, see if it works, if it doesn't, tell him to try again. Off hand it looks like a way better concept than his back-up concept. The only real question here is, do you want this guy to play at all?

[bubba smith]

phantom gm another poster is playing a rammna1/2 type character too, try pming him maybe he can help you
EDIT i hope you don't mind simcomm but i've taken the liberty of pm ing him he should be in touch with you shortly

[SimComm]

Wow!
Thanks for your advise everyone.
I was just dead set against allowing the character in, now I'm not so sure.
I should have made it more clear that the guy playing the "Ranma" character has been in the campaign before, but took a break, so it's not that anyone (as far as I know) has an issue with it.
As for gender issues, well, I hope his wife knows :)
It's funny, I've never had a concern when a female player wants to play a male character (Vampire protective male; guess which movie everyone went to go see :) ).
I wonder if there's some sort of strange relationship fulfillment issue when players play the opposite sex...

Thanks again,
-SC

[SimComm]

FireTiger:
I was also interested in the idea, as I love Golden Age villains, and yes, she does look exactly the same (I think she even has that 40's weave effect).
As for the character, I think he was going for a "shy guy" normal, kind of like Peter Parker, who uses the form to come out of his shell (so to speak).

bubba smith:
Thanks! I wouldn't mind any advise.

-SC

[bigbywolfe]

I fail to see the issue at all. Over half of the female characters I've seen played have been played by males (there's not a lot of girl gamers in this part of the Midwest). Having the character change gender only makes the situation slightly more questionable, and I do mean slightly.

Do you have any reason whatsoever to suspect the player will be crass or intentionally vulgar, rude, et cetera? Are some of the other players particularly sensitive about gender role issues or something? I mean, what’s the hold up?

P.S. Using the female alter ego to “come out of his shell” as you put it, might seem to have a drag queen feel to it. Is that what you are worried about? Would that offend someone in the group? And if so, why?

[SimComm]

bigbywolfe:
I am if anything, incredibly oversensitive, and a worrier :)
None of the players have any gender issues (as far as I can tell).
Perhaps I'm overthinking this... Will have to bounce this idea around to a few choice players mayhaps.

Thanks,
-SC

[ghost-angel]

Unless he starts doing wildly innappropriate things both in and out of character for no reason... I don't see the issue.

It could be played for laughs - "I'm a boy whose a girl! Sitcom Hilarity Ensues"
It could be played deadpan - "So, I become a woman. We still have justice to dispense!"
It could be played as almost a non-issue.

Let him do it, if it becomes a problem talk to him. In my experience a lot of players that gender-bend really just want something nice to look at in their minds eye and would play a Person no matter when gender their Character is.

[SimComm]

ghost-angel:
Knowing the player, there will be laughs, whether intentional or not. I don't think he's ever played a female character before, so this may be his baby step towards that?
An idea that I had was maybe to have an NPC or PC sort of help guide him through it, although this could be a wildly amusing event one way or another. (Maybe I could get his wife to start playing with us? :) )

Silly question, but besides the obvious (i.e. OMG B00bz!), what kind of outlandishness should I be prepared for?

Thanks,
-SC

Edit: Personally, I'm also relishing the idea of using my growing list of cheesy pick-up lines that have been thrown at me over the years. "Great dress. How's it look on the floor?" "You're the perfect height... on your knees." They get WORSE...

[ghost-angel]

outlandishness?

I dunno. Prepare for the worst I guess.

[Vondy]

...and I'm going off on a Vondy-style rant on logic.

I didn't do nothin' to nobody! I swear it! What did I do?! :p

[SimComm]

Prepare for the worst?
Oh my, now you've activated my paranoia streams.

Dare I ask what a Vondy-style rant is?

Best,
-SC

[Vondy]

I will try to avoid a logic rant.

Instead, I'll just stick to shiqul daat (common sense) and experience.

My experience is that there are potential problems. I've had a few male players who liked playing objectified-sexualized female characters. They were offensively bad at it. It wasn't just the female players. It also offended some of the men, including me. But it wasn't just men. We had a female player who revealed herself to be a misandrist when she took on a male character. It wasn't just the men who were offended. It got to the point where we had a general rule "no opposite gender roleplaying."

But my experience is anecdotal. Its also not monolithic. I've had two female players who played men very well. And I've had one long-term female character as a player (I'm usually the GM) who I've been complimented on as being a believable, three-dimensional woman. She's a hottie, of course, and her genesis is a comical story born of a teenage male gaming group, but she turned out alright. And I will echo Novi's comment: the majority (not all) of female players I've had prefer uber-vixens with really high comeliness scores. Its a common fantasy for women, too.

So here's my advice: communicate. Its my gaming mantra: communication is king. Talk to the player about how he intends to play the character and what the two of you want to do with it. Is it a teenage boy who has no idea how to act like a woman? If so is the character going to give you some farsical moments as he tries to act like movie/television women? Is the character going to have normal hetero-male sexuality in both forms? Or does it switch with the form?

And does the biochemistry change, meaning the super-form really thinks and acts like a grown woman instead of a teenage boy? And what if his highschool friends have a mad crush on her, posters on their walls, and locker-room talk about her (I mean him, oh this is so confusing). Or, does the biochemistry work the other way? Is the teenage boy starting to think like a grown woman? Or maybe they remain distinct consciousnesses with one submerged and just along for the ride. That could be uncomfortable if they are leading normal lives for their respective forms. There are a lot of good themes to work with.

As for the other players my advise is the same: communicate, communicate, communicate. Offense can be genuine, but it can also result from simply not understanding the intent. If your other players understand the effect he wants to achieve your much less likely to run into problems. At the same time, I'd put the character on probation. If it doesn't work switch it out (to something other than his current backup concept).

[Vondy]

Dare I ask what a Vondy-style rant is?

Yes! Yes! The people have a right to know! We demand answers!

[ghost-angel]

A Vondy rant is something so overlaiden with common sense and logical repsonses that the only possibly conclusion after reading one is to go out for a nice cuppajoe and find some good ole beligerance to comfort yourself with.

I regularly play female characters myself - In the end though they're people. As long as the Player realizes that gender is an aspect and not defining characteristic of the Character things should turn out alright.

[SimComm]

Vondy:
That was... just... wow.
You've now become my ideal for internet communicae.

A few bit points from me:
Now that I think about it, I suppose most people like attractive characters. ( I know my char's COM is 14 :) )

As for communications, I'll talk them up and see what happens.

But before that happens, I've decided to tread the waters and see what happens. I'm going to do a "test run" with the new character in a solo run and see how he/she reacts.

Wish me luck!

Best,
-SC

[yamamura]

Vondy:
That was... just... wow.
You've now become my ideal for internet communicae.

A few bit points from me:
Now that I think about it, I suppose most people like attractive characters. ( I know my char's COM is 14 :) )

As for communications, I'll talk them up and see what happens.

But before that happens, I've decided to tread the waters and see what happens. I'm going to do a "test run" with the new character in a solo run and see how he/she reacts.

Wish me luck!

Best,
-SC

Best of luck.

[Vondy]

Wish me luck!



Let us know how it turns out.

[Doug McCrae]

Cross-dressing was very Golden Age.

Red Tornado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Tornado_(Ma_Hunkel))
Madame Fatal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Fatal)

[Kenn]

In my experience, male players playing female characters and female players playing male characters both tend to be a little off. I think there is something that is generally a part of each gender's perspective that cannot be replicated. However, this is anecdotal evidence, not a rule.

That said, from what you described, this problem, if it exists, has been sidestepped. If the character still has the brain of the boy, then I'd expect the heroine form to seem slightly off.

I'd allow it.

[Pattern Ghost]

As to the option of the back up character if this one didn't work out... why? If it doesn't work out, you could always have him transform into a male Golden Age hero, and the awkwardness is solved while maintaining all the good story hooks that the original concept has.

[Trebuchet]

It's funny, I've never had a concern when a female player wants to play a male character (Vampire protective male; guess which movie everyone went to go see :) ).
I wonder if there's some sort of strange relationship fulfillment issue when players play the opposite sex...I'm male and I've been playing a female character in our group for 16+ years. Far from causing "strange relationship fulfillment issues", it's become a way for me to get closer to my longtime girlfriend. Trying to understand things from the female point of view so I could roleplay my character better, I often discussed things with my GF that we'd never have talked about otherwise.

[Yansuf]

As to the option of the back up character if this one didn't work out... why? If it doesn't work out, you could always have him transform into a male Golden Age hero, and the awkwardness is solved while maintaining all the good story hooks that the original concept has.

Good Point!

[SimComm]

Thank you all for the comments!

As for the "grand experiment," it went well (I think)! I even got a dinner out of it (must be nice to have someone to cook for you all the time...)
I'll try to get more into it, but really, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I had a "test associate PC" there and we checked notes afterwards to make sure it was up to standards.

In short, the Character is a really shy guy who gets generally ignored/picked on, and then finds the magic locket (amulet? I don't exactly remember), and transforms him into the Maiden. (Costume in the same trunk). However, his mind/chemistry is fully intact. (Yes, we were making "woman suit" jokes in the necessary voices on the way back)
It was fun watching him freak out, and then running into my test PC, who is a psychic. Granted it was sort of unfair, in terms of keeping the "big secret," but I thought it was necessary.
The fun part was that everyone knew who she was supposed to be, and no matter what the poor guy tried, the media had its own answers. (I haven't decided if cryogenics/stuck in space/time travel or immortality is going to be their reason why she looks the same)
Towards the end, the guy is so miserable (he can't even look down, which he mimed perfectly), that he's about to just give up the heroics until he literally accidentally saves the psychic PC from a roving super-villain. (I think he/she just landed on him going really fast)
I do like the fact that he's in almost constant terror of what the device is going to do next, and is totally freaked out about girls in general.
Now that he can become one, he's even more freaked out, but our psychic PC laid some uh... "mental help" to ease him, at which he changed back.
So, involuntary change due to stress (which high school never has, oh no) to Super-Form it looks like.
It's very cute in a way :) Oh I did not write that... oh well...
So in short, I'm going to let him/her have a shot and see what develops.
We've already nominated the Maiden as official Media Distraction Device.

Thanks again!
-SC

[Matt the Bruins]

Something I'd recommend for background is reading Freak Force, a series from Image Comics back in the mid 90s. One of the major characters was a Captain Marvel homage whose current civilian identity was the nurse who'd been present when the hero's original alter ego passed away. There were some interesting takes on a super-heroic transformation that involved switching genders.

[BNakagawa]

let me get this straight, the character is a teenaged boy that finds a magic item that transforms him into a superpowered woman?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have found the patron saint of 4chan.

[SimComm]

Matt the Bruins:
Hmm, I've never heard of Freak Force, but I wasn't a big Image Comics fan. I think Gen13 and the general lack of well... writing actually put me off.

BNakagawa:
:)
That's all I have to say. I might use this in game, hope you don't mind.

Thanks again,
-SC

[Vondy]

I can see him activating his powers now: "Woman Suit On!"

[bubba smith]

I can see him activating his powers now: "Woman Suit On!"
or "DRESS FOR SUCESS

[Doug McCrae]

I can see him activating his powers now: "Woman Suit On!"Femme On!

[SimComm]

Hahaha!
It's much better than our suggestion which was:
"It puts the lotion on, or it gets the hose again."

-SC

[Trebuchet]

SimComm, have you ever read the webcomic Valkyrie Yuuki? It has a protagonist who finds himself/herself in a similar situation, and beyond being enormously entertaining might also be something you can mine for ideas.

http://www.sgvy.com/archives/Edda1/Cover.html

[SimComm]

Trebuchet:
Sure I'll take a look. This isn't hentai, right?

-SC

[Trebuchet]

Trebuchet:
Sure I'll take a look. This isn't hentai, right?Hentai? (I had to look that term up.) No, although it does have a bit of adolescent sexual humor (hardly surprising, since the protagonist is in junior high school). Nothing remotely graphic, though.