extra KB question

[mkpegg]

Hiya

just a quicky

Got a player who wants to construct a character of normal strength max but who has massive KB.

I've constructed this as

+ HtH (-1/2)
0 end (+1/2)
Double KB (+3/4)
Inflicts no damage, just used to calculate KB

Just want some advice on what the modifier should be for the "inflict no damage bit", as while it causes none directly I see it used to cause a lot of damage with the KB

Mike

[Farkling]

+20" Leaping, Usable against Others, Only away from me

20" Flight, Usable Against others, Only away from me, improved Acceleration

60 STR TK, no range, only to hurl target away from me, only usable with strike manuever

Can't think of anything else...

[mkpegg]

Thanks Fark

but while these are all great ways of designing the effect they don't fit the character concept (even if it is a cheaper way of modeling it)

i.e +20 leaping
Usable as Attack +1
0 END +1/2
Only with strike manuever -1/2
Cost 40

theres no point having "only for movement away from character" as the movement will always be away from the character, after all they are either in the same hex or adjacent hex's (ok in this case if the player wanted to be pedantic they could leap towards them for one hex but would still travel away from them for 19")

I like the extra KB my design gives as it is more controlable by myself as everyone has someway of restisting some of it's effects.

I'm thinking of giving the "inflict no damage, just used to calculate KB" a -1 mod, this makes 12d6 of HtH cost 48 points. This gives up to an extra 48" of KB. Does this seem about right to all you guys/gals/sentients out there. The player is arguing for -1 1/2 but I don't think it's worth that much. The initial punch (4d6) will hardly touch the def of most villians but the fact that many will go flying into the nearest wall for alot more damage is not something to be ignored.

[mattingly]

Another way to do it, but that will require a sharp GM's eye, is:
MegaScale Knockback Distance on X STR (1" = 10m, +1/4).

With MegaScale, you can determine what the multiplier is, and set it to just 10m (or whatever works for you, up to (I think) 100m at the +1/4 level). If you want to get a bit more refined, you can add another +1/4 so that it's scalable; that is, the player can determine whether a hex of KB equals 10m, 100m, or somewhere in between.

If you want to do a KB-only attack, I normally do that as:
Dispel Knockback Resistance, Does Knockback (+1/4), Double Knockback (+3/4).

That comes out to 2d6 of KB per 3 points.

[Lord Liaden]

In most published Hero books, "Only Does Knockback" is assessed at -1.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by mkpegg
Hiya

just a quicky

Got a player who wants to construct a character of normal strength max but who has massive KB.

I've constructed this as

+ HtH (-1/2)
0 end (+1/2)
Double KB (+3/4)
Inflicts no damage, just used to calculate KB

Just want some advice on what the modifier should be for the "inflict no damage bit", as while it causes none directly I see it used to cause a lot of damage with the KB

Mike

So basically it's a 0 END 2x KB hand attack that inflicts no (direct) damage. Makes sense to me - you want to increase knockback, you add to the attack "KB only". There's a post above that sets the cost at 3 pts per die and also dispel KB resistance (maybe Suppress would be better, but why quibble).

If "no damage" is -3/4, you'll get 5 points per die here. 3/4 seems low to me, and that's borne out by the fact that the 3 point construct is slightly more effective. While I agree the knockback will be useful, given it's the only effect, I'm inclined to say the poweer loses most of its effectiveness and call it -1.5 or -2. Even at -2, it's still 3 points per die (3.21, actually), and linking it to a specific maneuver (another -1/2) won't lower it much ( 2.81 per die).

I think, after all that, I'd go with the Linked Dispel Knockback Resistance.

[Farkling]

I was thinking of appliying those powers to the TARGET not the character...

MegaScale is my choice of poison...applied on the attack...that rounds out to the overall modifier of +1 (Double KB is 3/4, MegaScale is 1/4)....or you could simply allow a 1/2 increase in KB for each +1/4 "Extra KB" advantage...that would follow the double KB design as is, and the pricing on MegaScale supports that structuring...

That's pretty powerful...are you aware that with 10d6 at double knockback, you generate an average of 13" KB? That means the attack does a minimum of 7-8d6 extra damage from KB, or max of 13d6 ?? Increasing the generated KB will increase the numbers...at 3xKB you will see 23" KB, for an extra 11-12d6 (who could make that breakfall roll?), or a max of 23d6...it's a subtle way to generate DAMAGE....if your PC just wants to hurl people great distances, he really should us a movement power built as an instant attack... this isn't a subtle way to bypass campaign damage limits is it?

<shrugs> I could see using this as constructed in Anime style game though...where people get socked for miles by relatively small attacks. Not my supers levels though, and definitely not in the SuperSpies genre...

[JMHammer]

Wouldn't the easiest way of doing this be to apply Double Knockback (+3/4) as a Naked Advantage to the character's STR? Therefore, if the character has, for example, an 80 STR, the cost of the advantage will be 20 points.

John H

[JohnTaber]

JMHAmmer is right. Just buy DoubleKnock on his STR.

[mkpegg]

The Character only has 20 STR, the idea is he is not super humanly strong but when he connects he knocks them back alot more than he should, not a stupid distance of hundreds of meters but 10 or 20m max.