Free fall teleport

[Steffen]

Hello!

My players and me are still new to the Hero System and I'm the only one who actually read the rules (5th edition) so I hope that you can give me some advice.

I'm GMing a Heroic level Champions campaign (like the “Heroes” TV show but not as dark) and one of my players is playing a teleporter.

As he is afraid of misteleporting he came up with the idea that his character just teleports straight up in the air, looks for his destination while falling and repeatedly teleports through the air until he reaches the building he’s looking for.

I know that this is not the way Teleport is supposed to be used but as the character does have the disadvantage “Thrillseeker”, the talent “Absolute Range Sense”, practices Parkour and took the Position Shift and No Relative Velocity adders I actually don't have a problem with this idea. In fact, I think it is a very interesting concept. :)

In order to complicate things a bit I'm planning to ask the player to make a Navigation skill check in order to find his destination and to make a CON-check after arrival and reducing his DEX for a minute if he fails.

So I'm asking you, the more experienced players and GMs, do you think that this is a valid way of using Teleport or does it abuse the rules in a way I just don't see?

Thank you!

[Balabanto]

This does abuse the rules in a way you don't see. He should also have to pay for Clairsentience, Leaping to counter falling distance, and damage resistance. (AND Lots of it) Falling Velocity is retained regardless of the advantages he's already purchased. Therefore, the 30d6 Damage is his.

[Nevelon]

Isn't the "no relative velocity" advantage the one you use to blink onto moving trains and the like without going splat? If he paid the points for it he has the power to teleport from terminal velocity to the top of a building with no problems. If he mis-times it, he'll be a splat, but if he uses it in time he should not be penalized.

[Bloodstone]

The concept is workable.

Here are some issues he may have:

- If he teleports too high, he may have trouble perceiving his location well enough to 'port to it, based on range modifiers and such. This is ultimatly a GM call and on a case by case basis.

- Does he have enough inches of Teleportation to go up and then enough actions to teleport where he needs to go before he goes splat? Falling occurs every segment, so he can concievably hit the ground before he has a chance to port again.

- No Relative Velocity takes care of the risk of falling damage. Falling Velocity is specifically NOT retained once you have that adder.

All that said, it may actually be mechanically easier to just give the character some inches of Flight with the special effect of him Teleporting through the air to his destination...

[Hyper-Man]

Here are links to some posts from some old teleportation related threads you might find useful:

Teleporter attacking fliers (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/71026-teleporter-attacking-fliers?p=1788385#post1788385)
How to Build: Teleporter - Only (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/71165-Teleporter-Only?p=1783565#post1783565)

[The Suave]

Just tell him to buy Safe Blind Teleport...then he won't have to worry about mis-ports.

[Balabanto]

Uh, in his case, No Relative Velocity doesn't, because his special effect says he teleports and falls, and teleports and falls. No relative velocity just means you don't take damage from teleporting onto moving objects. If you're already falling, you're STILL falling. Plus, he would need a 12 SPD to avoid this particular effect, as he would have to be able to GO on every phase to avoid suffering more than a 10 meter fall.

[Hyper-Man]

No relative velocity just means you don't take damage from teleporting onto moving objects.

Not exactly.
Teleporting from a stationary position to a moving position (like inside a vehicle) is functionally equivalent to Teleporting from an uncontrolled moving position (falling) to a stationary position. Movement itself is relative for a Teleporter.

[BoloOfEarth]

Uh, in his case, No Relative Velocity doesn't, because his special effect says he teleports and falls, and teleports and falls. No relative velocity just means you don't take damage from teleporting onto moving objects. If you're already falling, you're STILL falling. Plus, he would need a 12 SPD to avoid this particular effect, as he would have to be able to GO on every phase to avoid suffering more than a 10 meter fall.

Actually, the special effect just says he teleports. Gravity says he begins falling, after he teleports. :) But gravity is a harsh mistress.

I don't have the 5th ed rules here at work to get a quote, but the 6th ed text on "No Relative Velocity" specifically states, "Teleportation with this Adder allows a character to Teleport into a moving vehicle, or to the ground while falling, without suffering any damage." So if he was falling before the teleport, he can use his No Relative Velocity to turn that falling velocity to 0 upon arrival at his target location, but once there he begins falling again. (I'd imagine doing this multiple times would feel like a really sucky roller coaster.)

That said, as you pointed out, the teleporter's speed, as well as the teleport distance, would make a big difference in what happens. Assuming his SPD is 3-5, he'd have no more than 3 Segments of falling between teleports. So he falls 5" at the end of the Segment in which he teleported (downward velocity 5"), then another 10" at the end of the next Segment (total fall 15", velocity 10"), then an additional 15" at then end of the next Segment (total fall 30", velocity 15"), and he can Teleport again the next Segment (turning his velocity back to 0"), where he begins falling again. So if his Teleport is less than 30", it's a losing proposition for him. If he's SPD 6 or more, then his Teleport only needs to be more than 15" to avoid ground-splats.

Now, assuming he's Non-Combat Teleporting (this includes MegaScale), the falling issue most likely isn't a problem. Given the fact that he has Absolute Range Sense, I'd say he wouldn't have a problem moving across town like this and then teleporting back to the ground safely -- and Steffen's idea of a CON roll to avoid reduced DEX is a good way to simulate this jerky-roller-coaster effect. However, I should point out that the teleporter would also be at half DCV upon arrival (due to the Non-Combat movement), so if he's teleporting into the middle of a battle, it might suck to be him.

[Steffen]

Thank you for the replies and advice. I hope to get more suggestions. :bounce:

After reading Balabanto's reply I have to change my understanding of "No Relative Velocity". :think:
I thought the teleporter could reduce his speed to 0 with every "No Relative Velocity" teleport but in fact he'll eventually reach a terminal velocity of 200 km/h.

Me and the player will have to discuss this matter more thoroughly, I'm afraid...

[Tasha]

Thank you for the replies and advice. I hope to get more suggestions. :bounce:

After reading Balabanto's reply I have to change my understanding of "No Relative Velocity". :think:
I thought the teleporter could reduce his speed to 0 with every "No Relative Velocity" teleport but in fact he'll eventually reach a terminal velocity of 200 km/h.

Me and the player will have to discuss this matter more thoroughly, I'm afraid...

Well everytime he 'ports his relative velocity WILL start at 0, but will quickly accelerate as the character starts to fall.

[Matt the Bruins]

Yeah, he would need to make sure that each teleport destination besides the final one is high enough that he'll have time to teleport again before hitting the ground. Not a power I'd take with an Activation Roll, that's for sure.

[bigbywolfe]

Thank you for the replies and advice. I hope to get more suggestions. :bounce:

After reading Balabanto's reply I have to change my understanding of "No Relative Velocity". :think:
I thought the teleporter could reduce his speed to 0 with every "No Relative Velocity" teleport but in fact he'll eventually reach a terminal velocity of 200 km/h.

No, your initial understanding was correct, as Bolo pointed out in the post above your own...

[lemming]

It's a quirky way to travel, but with the addition of his adders, it's perfectly fine. And he probably doesn't have to worry about people wanting to hitch rides.

The only time velocity comes up is if he teleports to above the ground and impacts before his next teleport.

[kahuna's bro]

in the x-men comicswhen the x-mens plane was wrecked mid airwhen cyclops told nightcrawler to teleport to saftety 'crawler said he couldn't due to the law of consevation of energy he hadto finish his teleport with the same speed he started with ,that a eleport fropm idair would kill him just like the fall would

[Hyper-Man]

in the x-men comicswhen the x-mens plane was wrecked mid airwhen cyclops told nightcrawler to teleport to saftety 'crawler said he couldn't due to the law of consevation of energy he hadto finish his teleport with the same speed he started with ,that a eleport fropm idair would kill him just like the fall would

That just means that Nightcrawler's Teleportation ability wasn't built with the No Relative Velocity Advantage.

[bigbywolfe]

Yup, Nightcrawler does not have the "No Relative Velocity" option on his teleport.

EDIT: Dang it Hyperman, you're too fast.

[Steffen]

It's a quirky way to travel, but with the addition of his adders, it's perfectly fine. And he probably doesn't have to worry about people wanting to hitch rides.

That's also one of the ideas behind this mode of travel. He wants to keep the other group members from seeing him as the transporter guy. He even took a limitation that makes people sick (i.e. lose CON) when teleporting with him. :eg:

[bigbywolfe]

It'll be fun when a repeat villain figures out that he goes straight up first thing whenever he teleports and shoots him out of the air. Extra knockback for being air born, and possibly a CON Stun resulting in falling helplessly to the ground and taking even more damage...

[Ian Mackinder]

Yeah, he would need to make sure that each teleport destination besides the final one is high enough that he'll have time to teleport again before hitting the ground. Not a power I'd take with an Activation Roll, that's for sure.

... Not JUST the ground, either.

If in an urban environment (likely), then there are any number of things he could hit before reaching the ground - buildings, power lines, flocks of pigeons, aerials, other supers, etc..

[lemming]

One thing I will mention:

Don't overly penalize the character while he's doing this since, I'm guessing an equivalent point expenditure for flight would be perfectly safe & boring. Make it fun, maybe have him teleport over a roof top swimming pool with some skinny dipping. Will he continue, or ogle for a bit?

[Matt Holck]

It'll be fun when a repeat villain figures out that he goes straight up first thing whenever he teleports and shoots him out of the air. Extra knockback for being air born, and possibly a CON Stun resulting in falling helplessly to the ground and taking even more damage...

5" persistent gliding outside the teleport power would be handy

[dmjalund]

EDIT: Dang it Hyperman, you're too fast.
he just bought more speed than you

[BoloOfEarth]

One thing I will mention:

Don't overly penalize the character while he's doing this since, I'm guessing an equivalent point expenditure for flight would be perfectly safe & boring. Make it fun, maybe have him teleport over a roof top swimming pool with some skinny dipping. Will he continue, or ogle for a bit?
Or dive on in? :)

I second this motion. I was just pointing out the consequences if it is a NC teleport. And frankly, I like the idea of a CON roll to avoid a (IMO minor) DEX penalty. Over time, I might even award the guy a +1 to his CON roll (usable while teleporting, on rollercoasters, etc.) because he'd get used to it.

[BoloOfEarth]

5" persistent gliding outside the teleport power would be handy
Actually, this was the movement power for my (long-ago) character, Bolo: Teleport + Gliding, and I can heartily endorse it. Great combo.

[JmOz]

Just tell him to buy Safe Blind Teleport...then he won't have to worry about mis-ports.

However he can and should keep the f/x

[Steffen]

I second this motion. I was just pointing out the consequences if it is a NC teleport. And frankly, I like the idea of a CON roll to avoid a (IMO minor) DEX penalty. Over time, I might even award the guy a +1 to his CON roll (usable while teleporting, on rollercoasters, etc.) because he'd get used to it.

Thank you, I'll keep your idea in mind although I'm not planning to include a theme park anytime soon. :winkgrin:

[Steffen]

Just tell him to buy Safe Blind Teleport...then he won't have to worry about mis-ports.

He cannot yet afford to buy Safe Blind Teleport, Movement Skill Levels or Range Skill Levels to make sure that he arrives where he want to be. It's not just the fear of arriving inside of something, it's also the possibility to completely miss the target area.

While we're at it, how are teleporters like Cheshire Cat or Tesseract supposed to work without any of the above? Do they simply rely on their OCV when they cannot see their destination?

[lemming]

Well, one method I've used in the past, teleport your distance near the end of a segment just before your next segment usually at an upward angle. Then on your phase, teleport to a safe place you can see and you're not going very fast at that point.

However, most of the time, it doesn't come up. (I'm thinking 1/2 dozen times while playing since '81)

[BoloOfEarth]

Thank you, I'll keep your idea in mind although I'm not planning to include a theme park anytime soon. :winkgrin:
I've run an adventure where the heroes had to defuse bombs on two roller coaster cars, while both were in motion. I gave them penalties to their Demolitions rolls due to the motion of the cars, but I really should have also allowed for potential motion sickness.