Physical might: Strongest characters in comics and other media, and benchmarks

[megaplayboy]

Was just thinking about this the other day, wondering "who is the strongest character in comics?" Then I thought it might be fun to start a thread here about this. Obviously, there are a lot of candidates from comics that come to mind, including
Superman(especially the pre-Crisis version)
Captain Marvel
Black Adam
Gladiator
Sentry
Thor(with or without belt of strength, warrior madness or Odinpower enhancement)
Silver Surfer(with or without cosmically boosting his might)
Hulk (probably of World War Hulk vintage)
Hyperion
Mr. Majestic
Supreme
Superman Prime
Hercules

From other media, we might include Atlas(greek mythology), Magni(norse mythology), Optimus Prime, etc.

My personal nominee for the title: Validus. It took the combined might of Superboy, Mon-El and Ultraboy to subdue him, and these were the planet-shifting variety of those characters.
But other villains are also ridiculously strong:
Juggernaut
Count Nefaria
Bizarro
Doomsday
General Zod
Red Hulk
Omega(from LSH--but this character appeared only briefly and their exact strength is difficult to gauge--but he could one-punch pre-Crisis Mon-El!)
Broly (of Dragon Ball Z movie infamy)

I think, absent a meaningful quantifiable measurement of all these characters, there is a useful set of benchmarks for super-strength I worked up:
Level 1--character can lift a car
Level 2--character can lift a truck
Level 3--character can lift a main battle tank
Level 4--character can lift a jumbo jet
Level 5--character can lift a barge
Level 6--character can lift a battleship or aircraft carrier
Level 7--character can lift a skyscraper
Level 8--character can lift a pyramid
Level 9--character can lift a mountain
Level 10--character can lift/move an asteroid
Level 11--character can lift/move a moon
Level 12--character can lift/move a planet
Level 13--I've never seen this in a comic book or anywhere else, but this would be nigh-infinite strength--e.g., the character can lift/move a star or equivalent amount of mass

I think Marvel comics characters are typically operating around level 3 or 4 on this scale, with the high end characters occasionally hitting level 5 to 7 and rarely getting into the 8 to 10 range. DC comics characters tend to skew a couple levels higher, with a handful of them being able to actually move planets. I peg Validus between a 12 and a 13, simply because he's substantially stronger than characters who can move planets.

Anyway, gotta run before I get snowed in here. Have fun arguing for your "top" bricks. :D

[Clonus]

Count Nefaria was intended to be an equivalent for the pre-crisis Superman as was the X-Men's Gladiator.

[steamteck]

Pre-crisis Validus gets my vote also. I remember Superboy bouncing off his jaw. the same Superboy who towed a 1/2 dozen planets out of a solar system.

[lapsedgamer]

Don't forget the Gladiator from the Imperial Guard in Marvel. He is just a Silver Age Superman clone, but I believe that he was written to be as strong as he believed that he was. He had a form of contact telekinesis that worked with his strength to allow him to pull off physically improbable feats as long as he was confident that he could. Technically, he would be Level 11 or 12, but I've never personally seen that in print.

While we are talking about this, I want to complain about DC's power level. One of the reasons I've never been into DC as much as Marvel is the fact that DC characters all tend to be the strongest one there is. You have people with massive strength in addition to broad suites of secondary powers. Most of the Justice League is stronger than someone like The Thing, and then they have laser vision and flight on top of that. Hell, even Aquaman is about as strong as, if not stronger than, Luke Cage. Don't even get me started on Superman and the Martian Manhunter and that power-of -the week stuff they used to pull. Marvel only has three examples of this that I can think of: Iron Man, Thor, and The Sentry.

The Sentry is like Marvel making fun of Superman, so he doesn't really count. Iron Man used to be written as significantly weaker than a Thor or Hulk, but things may have changed. In head-to- head combat, Thor was deemed to be less than Superman, so... Anyway, DC has always been a little over the top for my tastes.

[RexMundi]

Validus. In any DC "crisis" version.

Easier though to Break it up by Company.

~Rex

[steamteck]

While we are talking about this, I want to complain about DC's power level. One of the reasons I've never been into DC as much as Marvel is the fact that DC characters all tend to be the strongest one there is. You have people with massive strength in addition to broad suites of secondary powers. Most of the Justice League is stronger than someone like The Thing, and then they have laser vision and flight on top of that. Hell, even Aquaman is about as strong as, if not stronger, than Luke Cage. Don't even get me started on Superman and the Martian Manhunter and that power-of -the week stuff they used to pull. Marvel only has three examples of this that I can think of: Iron Man, Thor, and The Sentry.

.

I have to agree with you. Although theoretically my favorites tend to be the DCs. Its more from less powerful incarnations that have shown up like Roy Thomas Earth 2 stuff. Bruce Timm's earlier Justice league stuff and TAS Superman are the more preferred power level for me. One of the nice things about very early post crisis was the powering down but they used their powers more efficiently. Flash who can run at about the speed of sound with appropriate reflexes is plenty for me. The TAS style Superman is pretty much one of my favorite characters ever. The higher level guy not as much.

[palaskar]

What, if I may ask, is TAS?

BTW, let's not forget Magog. I've never seen him, but I've read he had the power of an entire warrior race -- a billion billion people, IRC. Also IIRC he fought the entire legions of Asgard, and was strartin gto win, before Thanos called him back. Or so I heard.

Odinpower Thor is also stupidly powerful. He den't Captime America's shield! And then he hammerd out the dent. Probably this is due to the Odinpower...didn't Odin have power around the level of Galactus?

And then there's World Hulk, who held down this Thor when he had x10 strength from warrio's rage....maybe the stupid level of power above (denting Cap's shield) only apply to hs hammer?

[Bloodstone]

Was just thinking about this the other day, wondering "who is the strongest character in comics?" Then I thought it might be fun to start a thread here about this. Obviously, there are a lot of candidates from comics that come to mind, including
Superman(especially the pre-Crisis version)

Meaningful comparison ceases to exist as soon as you reach the "as strong as the plot demands" and "physics as we know it need not apply" levels of strength.

At the point where you are so strong that you can change history by punching the walls of reality, we're not even talking about super strength any more.

Plus, lets be honest here, cosmic level stuff like Plant Pushing or moving a Sun has less to do with strength and more to do with other powers.

Flying Supers push planets. Macroscopic heroes push planets. Guys with cosmic level telekinesis can push planets.

Dudes like the Hulk?

Just kinda does a hand stand and grunts a lot...

[Bloodstone]

What, if I may ask, is TAS?

The Animated Series

[Bloodstone]

Of course, there's always this too...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x296/acewasp23/as1xf1.jpg

[Lord Liaden]

In terms of sheer physical strength, I'd have to put Marvel comics' Mangog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangog) among the top contenders. At his peak Mangog was supposed to contain all the power of the "billion billion" members of his race, and was able to swat aside Thor's hammer Mjolnir with his bare hand.

[lemming]

The Sentry is like Marvel making fun of Superman, so he doesn't really count. Iron Man used to be written as significantly weaker than a Thor or Hulk, but things may have changed.

Iron Man could channel energy for brief periods of time to get him into their range, but normally he was weaker.

I'm with Rex, maybe easier to break down by company.

And yes, Vladius seemed at least to be the toughest (and certainly pretty dang strong). Not sure I saw anyone else tow a few planets around on a chain other than superboy...

[Steve]

From DC, I'd add Darkseid to the list of physical powerhouses.

From Marvel, I'd add the Destroyer. That suit of magic armor has slapped around Thor more than once.

[Enforcer84]

as much fun as these debates are...

I'd say Sllverage Superman established the benchmark.

That said, in my write ups the strongest tend to be The Hulk and Herakles.

[Greywind]

Nefaria was Power Man/Goliath/Atlas multiplied by a factor of 100 after he was repowered. He also had Whirlwind's speed and Living Laser's power multiplied the same.

Then he became a depowered old geezer...

[lapsedgamer]

Nefaria was Power Man/Goliath/Atlas multiplied by a factor of 100 after he was repowered. He also had Whirlwind's speed and Living Laser's power multiplied the same.

Then he became a depowered old geezer...

Great storyline by the way. One of the great classics of the Avengers book. Jim Shooter/ John Byrne team. Just a great read.

[megaplayboy]

Great storyline by the way. One of the great classics of the Avengers book. Jim Shooter/ John Byrne team. Just a great read.

My respect for the Vision only increased after that--densing up to 90 tons and dropping on the big bad from 2 miles up is serious bada**ery.

[austenandrews]

Captain Marvel
Black Adam
Gladiator
Sentry
Hyperion
Supreme
Count Nefaria
Bizarro

Am I mistaken or are all of these characters riffs on Superman of some stripe or other? Kind of funny.

For top brick, I'd call it a tossup between Superman and the Hulk.

[Badger]

Well, mentioning Broly, I think DBZ characters would probably max out at your level 9 maybe level 10. Their big danger is there ability to blast the planet into scrap. THough, I also admit I didnt watch GT or the movies past the 9th (the one I believe between Broly's first and second appearance).

Personally, increased power levels didnt look all that more powerful after Freeza got killed off. And Freeza at least show some crazy TK abilities at times, so it could be questioned whether his STR was physical or TK-enhanced I suppose.

Course, I always wondered What if Superman vs. DBZ character (hard to see a scenario Goku would fight him, so we'd have to ask Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, Buu, Broly etc) would be like. I am just not sure lifting a planet is so effective when your opponent is likely gonna just explode it in your face. Just saying.

[Badger]

Am I mistaken or are all of these characters riffs on Superman of some stripe or other? Kind of funny.

For top brick, I'd call it a tossup between Superman and the Hulk.

I'd go with Superman. Hulk never chucked around planets (at least that I remember). Course, Marvel seems a bit less amped on the STR scale overall.

[megaplayboy]

Well, mentioning Broly, I think DBZ characters would probably max out at your level 9 maybe level 10. Their big danger is there ability to blast the planet into scrap. THough, I also admit I didnt watch GT or the movies past the 9th (the one I believe between Broly's first and second appearance).

Personally, increased power levels didnt look all that more powerful after Freeza got killed off. And Freeza at least show some crazy TK abilities at times, so it could be questioned whether his STR was physical or TK-enhanced I suppose.

Course, I always wondered What if Superman vs. DBZ character (hard to see a scenario Goku would fight him, so we'd have to ask Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, Buu, Broly etc) would be like. I am just not sure lifting a planet is so effective when your opponent is likely gonna just explode it in your face. Just saying.

There was some scene in one episode where Piccolo is meditating, and he's levitating stuff while he's doing so...including a pyramid. He's casually levitating a pyramid while meditating.

[Matt Holck]

Fire Wing in my universe

Crystal Child was the indestructible body guard of Phantagia, one of the seven living gods.
When Phantaga died, the Heroes didn't not know what to do with the indestructible hostile brick
so Defender flew Crystal Child to the center of the Sun and left him there
where the child remained for years.

His shape slowly transformed into a manta ray
and Crystal Child developed a heart that could fuse hydrogen
and used the fusion energy to escape the Sun's gravity
and return with magnetically controlled plasma wings.

He now calls himself Fire Wing former Gladiator of the Gods

[lapsedgamer]

Fire Wing in my universe

Crystal Child was the indestructible body guard of Phantagia, one of the seven living gods
when Phantaga died, the Heroes didn't not know to do with the indestructible hostile brick
so Defender flew Crystal Child to the center of the Sun and left him there
where the child remained for years.

His shape slowly transformed into a manta ray
and Crystal Child developed a heart that could fuse hydrogen
and used the fusion energy to escape the Sun's gravity
and return with magnetically controlled plasma wings.

He now calls himself Fire Wing former Gladiator of the Gods

But did your world's version of Spider-Man beat him in a fight?

[Matt Holck]

No
but the earth swimming White Tiger, Captain Power and the Black Knight surfing on his own shield
defeated Fire Wing while in free fall to Earth.
Two had to be miraculously treated for radiation exposure later.

[Lucius]

Of course, there's always this too...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x296/acewasp23/as1xf1.jpg

Yeah! Spit it out!! Superman isn't the only one who wants to know!

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary adds - and while you're at it, who the heck are you and these other people? and are you going to shut the machine off or just leave Superman standing there holding it all day?

[RexMundi]

That's actually All Star Superman. He's a bit over the top, but it was so well written and drawn, it worked.

~Rex

[Susano]

Well, mentioning Broly, I think DBZ characters would probably max out at your level 9 maybe level 10. Their big danger is there ability to blast the planet into scrap. THough, I also admit I didnt watch GT or the movies past the 9th (the one I believe between Broly's first and second appearance).

Personally, increased power levels didnt look all that more powerful after Freeza got killed off. And Freeza at least show some crazy TK abilities at times, so it could be questioned whether his STR was physical or TK-enhanced I suppose.

Course, I always wondered What if Superman vs. DBZ character (hard to see a scenario Goku would fight him, so we'd have to ask Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, Buu, Broly etc) would be like. I am just not sure lifting a planet is so effective when your opponent is likely gonna just explode it in your face. Just saying.

There's a scene of a unpowered Goku training with 40 tons of weights (10 per limb). He's struggling until he goes SSJ and then has no problem. Vegita would regularly train in the 100 G room, which meant he weight roughly 15,000 to 17,500 pounds and was still able to move, punch, kick, and so on (not to mention breath and simply stand up!)

[Susano]

Certain characters in Battle Angel: Last Order have stuuupid levels of STR, and I think Seperoth from Final Fantasy VII was supposed to be really, really strong. Not sure about other anime series. Most of the super strong characters are only 30-40 in HERO terms.

[RexMundi]

Except for, Ultra Man, The Guyver, and A-ko.

~Rex

[Susano]

Except for, Ultra Man, The Guyver, and A-ko.

~Rex

*BANG**BANG**BANG*

That's me slamming my head on my desk for forgetting A-ko.

Okay, Ultraman doesn't count as he's a live-action character, not anime. Oddhat knows those better. What little I know of Guyver says yeah. he's like Battle Angel strong. And I gave A-ko a 75 STR since she tosses MBTs around like I'd toss an empty shoebox.

[RexMundi]

Ultraman counts. He's had several Anime's. The Ultraman was the first one and ran 50 Episodes from the middle of 1979 to 1980. And you Forgot A-Ko?! For Shame. How could you forget the Daughter of Clark Kent and Diana Prince?

~Rex

[Susano]

I know... I know.

[Bloodstone]

Yeah! Spit it out!! Superman isn't the only one who wants to know!

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary adds - and while you're at it, who the heck are you and these other people? and are you going to shut the machine off or just leave Superman standing there holding it all day?

This is from All Star Superman #1. It's a series of 12 tales set in it's own continuity. It was written by Grant Morrison and the art is by Frank Quitely. Very modern Silver Age stuff.

In this scene, Superman is being tested at P.R.O.J.E.C.T. The man in the technicolor labcoat is Dr Leo Quintum.

Superman has just come back from outer space, where he saved the good Doctor and his crew during the first manned mission to the Sun.

Lex Luthor was using this historic event as a trap to kill Superman.

Dr Quintum is about to tell Superman that Lex's plan worked. He's dying and only has about a year to live :(

And no, they don't really have to shut off the machine. As you can see in the second panel, Superman overloaded it and broke it when he straightened out his arm ;)

[lemming]

I know... I know.

Your fine is 12 cat girls.

[Enforcer84]

Am I mistaken or are all of these characters riffs on Superman of some stripe or other? Kind of funny.

For top brick, I'd call it a tossup between Superman and the Hulk.

yeah, or Captain Marvel.
You can say that Supes had his roots in the Gladiator character.
Captain Marvel may have flown first...which in some eyes seperates Supes from Gladiator, so the "Superstrong, invulnerable, fast guy who can fly" was actually the big red cheese and that everyone since has been riffing of him.

[Enforcer84]

I'd go with Superman. Hulk never chucked around planets (at least that I remember). Course, Marvel seems a bit less amped on the STR scale overall.

We could point out that Marvel was never so daft as to allow someone to 'grab a planet'; but you're right.

[Susano]

Your fine is 12 cat girls.

Over my dead body!

(looks out window)

Or totally snowed in body....

[Matt the Bruins]

That's actually All Star Superman. He's a bit over the top, but it was so well written and drawn, it worked.

Heh. Not as over-the-top as the Silver Age version of Superman though. He occasionally moved weights about 35 times as large as the mentioned value.

I seem to recall the Spectre throwing a star at an opponent in one of his 1970s stories, but despite being drawn as if he were a baseball pitcher flinging a fastball that really falls under the cosmic power heading rather than simple brute strength.

[lapsedgamer]

Heh. Not as over-the-top as the Silver Age version of Superman though. He occasionally moved weights about 35 times as large as the mentioned value.

I seem to recall the Spectre throwing a star at an opponent in one of his 1970s stories, but despite being drawn as if he were a baseball pitcher flinging a fastball that really falls under the cosmic power heading rather than simple brute strength.

Again, this is why I avoided DC like the plague back in the day. Marvel might have Galactus, Phoenix and other cosmic being who have this level of power, but they used more "realistic" means to show what they could do.

[Checkmate]

Again, this is why I avoided DC like the plague back in the day. Marvel might have Galactus, Phoenix and other cosmic being who have this level of power, but they used more "realistic" means to show what they could do.
Yeah I suppose, but what really bothered me about Marvel, wasn't so much about the muscles but the Mental powers. For example you mentioned Phoenix. During the Mutant Massacre, there was this Morlock that was possessed by Malice. He had the power to absorb other people into his body. It was gross and made him powerful yadda yadda yadda. Marvel Girl (without the Phoenix power) read his mind and discovered that if the bodies stayed in him a few minutes longer, all those people would die and be part of him forever, so she reached out and killed him by shutting off his mind. Now if she, and all the psi's as strong or stronger could do the same thing, yet no one does. I dunno there are things like that on both sides I just sort of overlook them as part of the genre

[lapsedgamer]

Yeah I suppose, but what really bothered me about Marvel, wasn't so much about the muscles but the Mental powers. For example you mentioned Phoenix. During the Mutant Massacre, there was this Morlock that was possessed by Malice. He had the power to absorb other people into his body. It was gross and made him powerful yadda yadda yadda. Marvel Girl (without the Phoenix power) read his mind and discovered that if the bodies stayed in him a few minutes longer, all those people would die and be part of him forever, so she reached out and killed him by shutting off his mind. Now if she, and all the psi's as strong or stronger could do the same thing, yet no one does. I dunno there are things like that on both sides I just sort of overlook them as part of the genre

Oh, Marvel has its moments too. The thing with comics is that it is hard to have a consistent read on a character's power levels because the writers often get carried away. They go and write something that conforms to the rule of cool , but totally changes the scope of the character. At that point, subsequent writers can either ignore what was written or use it as a new set point. As time goes on characters get more and more powerful until someone says enough and there's an Infinite Crisis on Multiple Earths, or some such, to hit the reset button.

To address your point more directly, Professor X was always supposed to be capable of this level of power, but he always took the high road. Theoretically, he could have probably solved a lot of the X-Men's problems by himself, but he and Magneto chose to fight it out through proxies for the most part. A very 1960s conceit, which is probably understandable considering when Stan Lee came up with all this.

Also, I haven't followed X titles with any consistency since the late 1980s. In my casual reading, I have noted that Jean Gray has gotten a lot more powerful over time. She would not have been capable of that kind of thing back in the Bronze Age heyday of the book. Things change I guess.

[Bloodstone]

Heh. Not as over-the-top as the Silver Age version of Superman though. He occasionally moved weights about 35 times as large as the mentioned value.

Depends on if we're using using short or long scale ;)

[Bodkins Odds]

*BANG**BANG**BANG*

That's me slamming my head on my desk for forgetting A-ko.


How could you forget the only child of Clark Kent and Diana Prince?

EDIT:Oh, RexMundi already said it.

[RexMundi]

Well remember. Marvel wanted the Scale, of "World Outside your Window". DC basicly went for, "No Limits." Currently Now, within their Respective Scales they are pretty comparable. Silver Age, was a bit wonky for DC, but that's because they wanted Over the Top.

Mad Props to my Fellow Big Red Cheese fans out there for remembering Captain Marvel beat Superman to flying (Whiz Comics #5 1940, as opposed to Action Comics #65 1943 for Superman), however, not long after Superman learned how to fly he was shoving planets around (1949, Superman #58). So even in the Golden Age, Superman was flexing his Silver Age Muscles. Any version of the Spectre, other then Ostrander's more, "marvel like in scope" run, is pretty much a force of Nature and shouldn't be counted in a battle of Brawn.

The 200 Quintillian Tons pushed by Big Blue in All Star Superman #1 there was also stated as three times his normal Strength for that Continuity. Don't recall if they stated Long or Short Scale for that number though. "The exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown." is the current write up for the mainstream continuity superman. Superman has been gradually moving back into that "Class of 1" scale again.

~Rex

[Susano]

How could you forget the only child of Clark Kent and Diana Prince?

I didn't get up and look at my movie collection.

[RexMundi]

And to think, Project A-Ko was slated to be Hentai originally, heh.

~Rex

[bigbywolfe]

And to think, Project A-Ko was slated to be Hentai originally, heh.

That explains so much...

[Lucius]

Lex Luthor was using this historic event as a trap to kill Superman.

Dr Quintum is about to tell Superman that Lex's plan worked. He's dying and only has about a year to live :(



Let me guess - dying of an overdose of yellow sun radiation?

You don't have to tell me how well that worked out for Lex Luthor.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary wonders what a country would be like if their greatest hero was the "smartest Man in the World" and his greatest enemy/archvillain was the Strongest Man in the World.

[Bloodstone]

Let me guess - dying of an overdose of yellow sun radiation?

You don't have to tell me how well that worked out for Lex Luthor.

Got it in one.

It probably doesn't end quite how you think it would though...


The palindromedary wonders what a country would be like if their greatest hero was the "smartest Man in the World" and his greatest enemy/archvillain was the Strongest Man in the World.

Superman: Red Son ;)

Though Lex certainly doesn't start off as an American hero, nor does Superman start of as a Communist villain...

[RexMundi]

Red Son is actually a very good Read.

~Rex

[Checkmate]

To address your point more directly, Professor X was always supposed to be capable of this level of power, but he always took the high road. Theoretically, he could have probably solved a lot of the X-Men's problems by himself, but he and Magneto chose to fight it out through proxies for the most part. A very 1960s conceit, which is probably understandable considering when Stan Lee came up with all this.
Oh I completely agree, which is why I'm equally able to ignore it from both companies.

The trouble with your solution though, is that the numerous times Prof X turned Evil or the Evil Prof X from another dimension should have been able to do the same thing to their enemies, but yeah I love writers, let when they forget whole powers *Gambit's hypnotism). Take the good with the bad I guess.

[RexMundi]

Yeah but forgetting powers is something I'm used to (Martian Manhunter is the single biggest victim of this). STUPID stuff (Gambit, dropping Juggernaut), I find unforgivable. As far as Strongest HERO, by Company right now, it would look like this.

Marvel: The Hulk (No Naysayers here, Hulk is Strongest One there Is.)

DC: Superman

Wildstorm: Mr. Majestic

Top Cow: Tough one since they've gone all "I GOTS SHARP THINGS ON ME DIDGITS!" ....Playing it safe, and saying Patriot, from Rising Stars. If I can't use Rising Stars, then it's Pitt.

Image: Currently, most likely the Savage Dragon. Formerly Supreme. Samaritan trumps Dragon, but Supreme outclasses Samaritan. Could toss Invincible in there as well. Continuity is not an Image Strong point.

Arcade Comics: Supreme (Cause Liefelds a poofta)

Dark Horse: Toss up between Titan, and Grace. Goes back and forth though Vortex cheats and can beat both of them.

Dynamite: Tough call. Lot of Strong guys. Hero though, it has to go to Samson......Former Hero....Captain Future though Black Terror ranks with either of them.

Could add a Lot more if I want to touch on the Limbo companies or the Oddball Indies.

~Rex

[lapsedgamer]

Oh I completely agree, which is why I'm equally able to ignore it from both companies.

The trouble with your solution though, is that the numerous times Prof X turned Evil or the Evil Prof X from another dimension should have been able to do the same thing to their enemies, but yeah I love writers, let when they forget whole powers *Gambit's hypnotism). Take the good with the bad I guess.

The one thing I really liked about the Grant Morrison X books that I read was Cassandra Nova. She was really the answer to the question of what would happen if Professor X was a villain.

This is why I like my characters to be relatively uncomplicated. I prefer a character with a small tight group of abilities to Swiss Army knife characters with a little bit of everything thrown in. I think it makes fro a better story when you have someone trying to stretch their abilities to fit a tough situation as opposed to a situation where the writer has to have the hero forget a power, or a full range of powers, for the villain to be a challenge. Spider-Man or Green Arrow, not Superman or Iron Man.When I was playing Champions regularly, all my builds were along this line.

[casualplayer]

Is there a reason why no ladies made the list, other than most of the ones who would likely be included are female versions of men who made the list? Suprema and Supergirl and Mary Marvel and She-Hulk and such. Makes me think there needs to be a non-derivative powerhouse female.

There was a window of time when She-Hulk started weight training as Jen Walters and was so strong she had to wear a restraining suit just to function.

[megaplayboy]

Is there a reason why no ladies made the list, other than most of the ones who would likely be included are female versions of men who made the list? Suprema and Supergirl and Mary Marvel and She-Hulk and such. Makes me think there needs to be a non-derivative powerhouse female.

There was a window of time when She-Hulk started weight training as Jen Walters and was so strong she had to wear a restraining suit just to function.

Titania is non-derivative, and her strength is fairly high up there. Maxima, too. Wonder Woman, of course. Zarda. Fairchild. Frenzy. Rampage. Night Girl. M, from New Mutants. I'm sure there are plenty more.

[lemming]

Nightgirl, as long as it was dark

[lapsedgamer]

Nightgirl, as long as it was dark

I read this Legion book recently where they finally hit upon the idea of teaming Night Girl with Shadow Lass. A definite case of the whole being more worthwhile than the individual parts. In that book, they also entertained that idea that Color Kid was actually tied into the emptional spectrum, amping his powers up quite a lot. They played with various little stunts like that so that the Subs actually were pretty tough in a fight.

[lemming]

I read this Legion book recently where they finally hit upon the idea of teaming Night Girl with Shadow Lass. A definite case of the whole being more worthwhile than the individual parts. In that book, they also entertained that idea that Color Kid was actually tied into the emptional spectrum, amping his powers up quite a lot. They played with various little stunts like that so that the Subs actually were pretty tough in a fight.

Nice. Did they use Infectious Lass?

[SuperPheemy]

I'm gonna have to go with Big Green here. His displays of strength are (dare I say..) subtle when compared to planet-moving, time-stream-punching, or other similar example which can be pulled from the thousands of years of mythology and fantastic tales. But what Hulk is written as doing is always pushing the limits of what he was established to do. Thor's Hammer, only lifted by the worthy? Hulk drags it from the ground, and gives everyone a shock. He punches Onslaught so hard that it shatters it into a being of pure psychic energy. Or in other words, there literally is no upper limit to the Hulk's strength as the character is defined.

Now, Hulk's baseline strength, like when he's running with the Banner Persona dominant, is simply really *really* strong. In the league with Thor or Martian Manhunter. So when he's "STRONGEST THERE IS", we're talking about his might becoming a plot device.

The same really can be said for almost any hero who's defining characteristic is strength though. The only real benchmark comparison I can make in this instance is that Hulk and Superman have tangled more than a few times in situations where they're representative of their respective Universe's definition of unbridled strength. In these fights, it's well established that Superman is stronger than Hulk, until Hulk gets too angry at which point even Superman realizes that the Hulk will indeed become stronger.

I'll extrapolate this a bit, because Superman has had more crossovers than Hulk between different companies, and in those instances, it's acknowledged that Superman is the strongest character in the room, so by that scale, the Hulk can grow stronger than those characters as well.

But we are going into a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type of argument here. All of these characters have been written at times so strong that the writer has had to if not make up terminology, at least think of really-super-big-scientific-numbers to describe how awesomely strong the character in question is. In the end is Superman's press of 200 Quintillion Tons that much less or more than Goku when his power goes "over 12,000!!!"?

[RexMundi]

Since someone brought it up, as far as the XX Chromosome characters out there, at least by company (And not dealing "age"), would look like this. Not listing villians or folks that cheat either. Raw Muscle.

DC: Wonder Woman. Followed by Power Girl, then Supergirl.

Marvel: She Hulk (Walters, not the....other one)....Marvels got a legion of other Super Strong Women but they all fall significantly behind the Jen Walters She Hulk.

Image: Suprema (this of course qualifies for Arcade as well), followed by Caitlin Fairchild when Gen 13 was an Image Title.

Wildstorm: No one. All the women in Wildstorm, tend towards Guns, Sharp Things, or Nanites. I honestly can't think of a super Strong Woman in Wildstorms line up. Wait! Caitlin Fairchild from Gen 13. The whole Image Exploding into 34,000 separate companies makes things annoying to qualify.

Dynamite: None. Dynamite goes more for the Femme Fatale "Pulp-esque" heroines. No real Muscle flexers there that I can think of.

Pretty much it. In comics, your Women, tend towards, Flashy stuff. Blasters Stuff Psi Stuff, anything that let's them pose as in a Thong stuff in a pose that would destroy the spine of even the most ardent Stripper. It's not from a lack of trying though, it's just that character wise, there's no real competing with what's already out there. Even more so then the "men", you just end up with "clones" and "Xerox Commandos".

~Rex

[Lucius]

Yeah but forgetting powers is something I'm used to (Martian Manhunter is the single biggest victim of this). STUPID stuff (Gambit, dropping Juggernaut), I find unforgivable. As far as Strongest HERO, by Company right now, it would look like this.

Marvel: The Hulk (No Naysayers here, Hulk is Strongest One there Is.)

DC: Superman

Wildstorm: Mr. Majestic

Top Cow: Tough one since they've gone all "I GOTS SHARP THINGS ON ME DIDGITS!" ....Playing it safe, and saying Patriot, from Rising Stars. If I can't use Rising Stars, then it's Pitt.

Image: Currently, most likely the Savage Dragon. Formerly Supreme. Samaritan trumps Dragon, but Supreme outclasses Samaritan. Could toss Invincible in there as well. Continuity is not an Image Strong point.

Arcade Comics: Supreme (Cause Liefelds a poofta)

Dark Horse: Toss up between Titan, and Grace. Goes back and forth though Vortex cheats and can beat both of them.

Dynamite: Tough call. Lot of Strong guys. Hero though, it has to go to Samson......Former Hero....Captain Future though Black Terror ranks with either of them.

Could add a Lot more if I want to touch on the Limbo companies or the Oddball Indies.

~Rex

Archie Comics: Big Moose.

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises

[RexMundi]

Heh, technically speaking, Archie Comics would have been The Shield, from their Red Circle Line, still, DC bought that, so you are correct. It's All Moose now.

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

DC: Wonder Woman. Followed by Power Girl, then Supergirl.

While I would put Wonder Woman at the top too, her strength level varies so much based on writer. Some writers get the idea that she's supposed to be on par with Superman. Others feel that she's clearly inferior in both strength and speed to the Kryptonians and the Marvel Family...


Wildstorm: No one. All the women in Wildstorm, tend towards Guns, Sharp Things, or Nanites. I honestly can't think of a super Strong Woman in Wildstorms line up. Wait! Caitlin Fairchild from Gen 13. The whole Image Exploding into 34,000 separate companies makes things annoying to qualify.

Zealot's actually got Spider-man level superstrength. So not on par with Fairchild, but no slouch either.


Dynamite: None. Dynamite goes more for the Femme Fatale "Pulp-esque" heroines. No real Muscle flexers there that I can think of.

Red Sonja? Pretty damn strong, if not an outright brick...

[Susano]

Red Sonja? Pretty damn strong, if not an outright brick...

By all rights, she should be weaker than Conan, who's not more than a 30 (I give him a 25).

[RexMundi]

Heh, I'll go with Red Sonja. She would be the most powerful Physically of the batch of folks Dynamite put out. As for Zealot in the Wildstorm Universe, Kinda iffy there really, she's still more "Sharp Things" then strong as her gimmick. Still, good point.

In DC though (current), Wonder Woman is the # 2 spot, more then capable of over powering Super Girl (Was one of the funniest fights ever) for example, slapping aside giant chunks of falling moon, holding up the golden gate bride etc. Only the DUMB writers, forget how strong she's supposed to be and if you ask the majority of the DC writers who the strongest one is after Superman, they're gonna say, Wonder Woman.

I would have tossed Mary Marvel in the list but right now, she doesn't have any powers so she doesn't count. Trying to keep the list at Current Production levels, heh. Another reason for avoiding the Spidey Strength girls, because then you would need 50 pages just for the marvel list. Golden Age Wonder Woman was able to pull the entire Island of Themescryia out of the way of a Tsunami, with one hand, and Golden Age Wonder Woman could increase her strength ten fold, by taking off the bracers, though berserk amazon rage, is not a good thing for collateral damage issues.

Going back to the Image thing, A lot of their Sharp Things and thongs crowd, started poofing in with super strength as more of an Add On then anything else. Lot of after the fact thing.

~Rex

[Susano]

Looking over my library, I made found these super-strong anime/manga characters. All STR values use HERO.

Goku and company from Dragon Ball. Most of the main cast is super strong, starting around 30 for the weakest and getting up near 50 (or more) for the strongest. This only takes into account DB and DBZ. I'm ignoring DB GT.

Haruko from FLCL. How strong is she? No idea, but she hits a baseball into orbit.

Aisha Clan-Clan from Outlaw Star. Exact strength is unkown, but no more than 35.

A-ko and B-ko from Project: A-ko. A-ko is the daughter of Superman and Wonder Woman and can toss around MBTs like they were toys. B-ko's battlesuit is almost as powerful.

Gally/Alita from Battle Angel. Once again her strength is hard to say, but it's at least 40 and might be up around 60. She's really fast too, and most of her power comes from her extra Damage Classes on her martial arts, not just raw strength.

Mian Toris from Caravan Kidd. Minimum of 30 STR, maybe higher. Shion Claris from the same series has around a 40.

Oh, and Dark Horse has Empowered, who's suit lets her chuck Hummers around. STR of... well... 50? Might be higher.

[Matt the Bruins]

I stopped reading DC comics at the end of Infinite Crisis, but in that series it was at least implied that Power Girl's abilities finally stopped yo-yoing after contact with her cousin and Earth-2's Lois Lane. If she ended up running on all cylinders as a pre-Crisis Earth-2 Kryptonian from that point on, she should be considerably more powerful than Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain Marvel.

[RexMundi]

Nope PG is stabilized at More Powerful then Super Girl, Less powerful then Either Big Red S. (Because she's basically, the Adult Super Girl) but they pretty much tossed Pre Crisis Out the Window with the Exception of Superboy Prime otherwise Kal-L would have mopped the floor with ALL of them. Power Girl is being fixed up in her own series right now which I have to say, is VERY good, and well worth reading. She ended up running on all Cylinders, Just not Pre First Crisis All Cylinders. Most of her wonky power curve stuff though came from other Writers trying to do stuff with her (She's Atlantean! Yeah that's Right!), so they basically applied some "Subjective Reality" to the situation, and went back to her being Kryptonian.

Again, her new Comic, is very good. Arts a lot of fun to. I'd say, it ranks as good as Gail Simone's Secret Six Stuff. Written by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray, and drawn by Amanda Conner (Who draws a touch cartoony, but it's expressive and really works for some reason in this book).

http://i.livescience.com/images/AmandaConnerSuperman.JPG http://i.newsarama.com/preview_images/dcnew/june09/4/pgl_cv2.jpg

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

Again, her new Comic, is very good. Arts a lot of fun to. I'd say, it ranks as good as Gail Simone's Secret Six Stuff. Written by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray, and drawn by Amanda Conner (Who draws a touch cartoony, but it's expressive and really works for some reason in this book).

I read it and like it, but Jimmy does some very odd things with the book. It's pretty silly, so the tone doesn't quite fit in with rest of the DCU or even PG's other appearances.

It reminds me of She-Hulk, in a good way.

But I will have to protest if PG continues to give aliens a free pass on murder! :p

Oh, and Amanda is both skilled and rather cute ;)

She's also Jimmy's GF, the lucky dog!

[RexMundi]

It should change. You're right the book is quirky, but it's Fun to read and look at. A lot of it carries over into the JSA and JSA All Stars book to where you run into PG doing Laundry and Mundane stuff like that (Which is really funny, but you have to see it). Honestly, that set of Writers and Artists have turned her into a very fun character, and her solo book, is worth adding to anyone's list. Even if it's not your Style, it grows on you fast. DC's current crop of writers and Artists are very good right now, and as far as the topic goes, DC's Top 5, Has three Women in it.

~Rex