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BoloOfEarth
Sep 12th, '03, 06:41 PM
Yes, it’s that time again (a little late, but hopefully not horribly so). The MC8 has already generated a lot of buzz here, but you’re getting my review anyway. ;) It’s a bit long because I wanted to get a bit more into the contest characters. After all, the authors obviously put a lot of thought into them.

Cover: Blaine’s cover treatment of the MC8 was stunning, IMO. Exceptionally well done.

When Last We Left Our Heroes: The VIPER organization book is one that I’ve been awaiting since Champions came out. I have no doubts that Scott Bennie and Steve Long did a bang-up job on it. I only got to glance through part of the playtest version, but what I saw I liked. Put it on my shopping list!

HEROglyphs: While I understand the metagame issue, I’d have to take a longer look at the optional changes to AP before I adopt any. I could be wrong, but it seems to me the whole thing is a bit moot. Yes, cutting defenses in half seems to hurt the high-defense character more than the low-defense one. However, a high-power attack with AP in either normal or optional formats seems like it would reduce defenses fairly similarly. A low-power attack probably won’t do much, if anything, to a high-defense character no matter which way you do AP. It seems to me that the optional way of doing AP adds the potential to completely remove defenses from the low-defense character, which could get icky.

HERO Universe (Sentinels): I like the way the intro was written as an excerpt from the “Official Sentinels Handbook.” The characters themselves were good, and the accompanying pictures were great work by Derrick Thomas. Of the three, Rocketman is my favorite, both for his history and his writeup, though I’m not keen on having enhanced senses in a Multipower.

You Gotta Have Character (Reynard the Fox): This was interesting and entertaining, but not one of my favorite YGHCs. I think it’s that the character is fictional (albeit historical fiction), and fictional characters can do or get away with whatever their authors decide they can. One of the things I really like about YGHC is being amazed at nearly unbelievable things that real people actually did or unlikely things that actually happened. (I still think that, if Jason wrote textbooks, schoolchildren would be eager to learn.)

That doesn’t mean this article was bad; on the contrary, Jason did his typical thorough job of researching combined with a great job of writing. It just didn’t “wow” me like past YGHCs did.

Optional Maneuvers: I’m not normally one for modifying or adding to the rules, but this article seems to do a good job of working “within the system,” even though it has the sidebar note that these aren’t official HERO rules. I think I might go with some of these, but I’m leery of having my players draw up new maneuvers on the fly.

Millennium City 8 (Intro/Sidebars): A good story, showcasing each individual without overly highlighting any one character. The one thing it needed was dialogue, although adding that would have either made it too long or required cutting some action. Tough call, but I probably would have trimmed some action to include a few quick quotes. The sidebars, particularly the Most Amusing Quotes, were a great idea.

Millennium City 8 (Art): I’ve said it before, and I’m sure I’ll be able to keep on saying it: Blaine’s artwork rocks. The individual character pics rank up there with the best I’ve seen in HERO books and other superhero RPGs. My only (minor) qualm was with Lady Liberty, whose wide smile clashes with the “no-nonsense” attitude listed in her disads. But since the character writeups came after Pat Zircher’s original CU cover, Blaine may not have had Lady Liberty’s character writeup when he drew her.

Millennium City 8 (Lady Liberty): Never in a million years would I have come up with a magical cop character, either from the illo or from my own mind. Truly a great, unique concept Geoff has here. Having her don a more traditional robe to appear and warn others magically is a nice touch. Her writeup looks nicely balanced, allowing good roleplay whether superheroine or cop.

Millennium City 8 (Psiphon): My favorite part of Psiphon’s background was the inside look at PSI’s “recruitment” practices, though his giving villains a chance to repent fits well. Also, I liked his head swelling as he absorbs or transfers powers. I’m guessing that, since PSI knows his identity, that PRIMUS’ witness relocation didn’t work too well. Big surprise there. ;) All in all, a nicely done mentalist getting away from the Standard Mentalist Multipower (my term for the normal Ego Attack / Telepathy / Mental Illusions / Mind Control suite seen with many mentalists).

Millennium City 8 (El Aguijon): His background has lots of neat bits (events in the Amazon, his brother, etc.) and they work well as a whole. I’m not sure why, but I had a minor problem that his ex-wife was an expert in size-changing technology. Other than that, I like. His writeup had a great set of powers relating to insect swarms (the Images is my favorite).

One “tiny” question (sorry, I couldn’t resist the pun): is “The Minstrel” secretly part of The Choir mentioned in Stalker’s background?

Millennium City 8 (Stalker): This is, IMO, the best-written text of the MC8. Favorite bits: “When they pulled the sheet over his son’s body at the E/R, that faith was shattered.” and “… in this case, it is indeed the clothes that make the man.” It was a very entertaining and compelling read. The writeup is also well done, especially the Luck. Stalker would make a great character to play: plenty of personality, skill, and capabilities.

Millennium City 8 (Raaktor): I enjoyed Raaktor’s background a lot, especially with its built-in archnemesis. It was well written and interesting. (I’m guessing the Raaktor is a distant cousin to the raccoon.) Definitely not a Wolverine clone, which was something I feared would win.

The character writeup is good, too, though there’s one thing I don’t like as much as the rest. It’s just a personal preference thing, but I’m not keen on having lots of characteristics in a Multipower, especially DEX and SPD. Arguably, some of the characteristics (PD, ED, and STUN) are really only applicable in combat, so the Limitation “Only in Combat” is questionable to me. Personally, I’d like to see this outside the Multipower, replacing the “Only in Combat” with Limitations for Extra Time (Extra Phase) and a set duration, kinda like psyching himself up for battle. To me, an instant Berserker Fury doesn’t fit as well with Raaktor’s more thoughtful nature. Again, this is just my personal preference.

Millennium City 8 (Steadfast): Denver gave us another very entertaining text. (My personal favorite was the spit take.) It manages to present a religious character without getting preachy or overpowering, which fit the character very well. The character is a pretty straightforward brick, though I like the “Heavy Burden/Blessing” name on the Density Increase.

Millennium City 8 (Megeara): I liked the background presented and wonder if you’ve drawn up Tisiphone and Alecto, her sisters. At first, as I was reading this I thought the three were going to mystically combine into one heroine, which I thought might be neat but hard to play. She’s a nice “living goddess” character.

Millennium City 8 (Commando Rubberbando): This is the winner of my own “favorite name” contest. It makes me wonder whether Ed watched Chip and Dale’s Rescue Rangers years ago. Making him a serious character, with Stretching, is a bit of a departure from normal. (No, I wasn’t going to say it was “a stretch.”) The background was well done, and the character writeup was pretty complete. (I like the points spend for Military Retirement and his Settlement.)

Crimson Arrow
Sep 13th, '03, 04:24 AM
Great review BoloOfEarth.

I think it was the great story for Stalker that hooked me, too. It had a "classic" feel and was well-written too.

You've raised a few points about some of my submissions, so I thought I'd deal with them on this thread.

El Aguijón: The thing I was aiming for in the background was "plot hooks". I had in mind that this would be a character where, like Peter Parker, his personal life would cause him as much grief as his heroic identity. This is the reason Marisa is an expert in size-change technology; it provides a reason she might be kidnapped, threatened, go missing, etc. She can still get caught up in bank robberies, be mugged, or trapped in a bomb damged multiplex, but there is now something extra for the GM to use. Maybe she becomes a hero herself.

Glad you liked the insect powers. The Images thing was inspired by cartoons where, say, Porky Pig, was chased by a swarm of bees. He'd jump in the river and the insects would form themselves into a question mark over the water.

The Minstrel? Absolutely nothing to do with Denver's intriguing villain group (I'm sorry to say). It's not a name he gave himself, although one of the plot seeds I wrote related to something he did threatening Millennium CIty.

Raaktor: The animal I actually thought of is a creature that lives in the north of North America, has vicious claws and is known for its tenacity and cunning. ;) It as a little nod to the fact that everyone assumed this character would go down a certain route.

I didn't think of a raccoon, but I really like the idea. The stripes on his costume (as shown on Blaine's excellent illustration) point in that direction and I'm happy to go with it. Wish I'd thought of it!

I note your dislike of characteristics in MPs, but it was supposed to reflect his ability to channel his mental energies in different ways. A Meditative Multipower, if you like. :)

This is also the reason it takes him no time to activate the slot; he is so used to meditation and trance-like states, he can slip into one instantly. While I referred to it as a beserker state (for ease of reference), it is more akin to him entering a combat-ready form of mind, channeling his mental energies to his body, instead of his will.

The PD, ED and STUN thing took a little thought and I was not sure if a Limitation was appropriate. Note that they do not help him if he is attacked when he is not in combat (even if he is expecting a fight and has the slot activated), if he falls from a speeding train, or is rescuing people from a burning building. Also, I thought it would be a nice touch if, at the end of a combat, he might pass out due to his "beserk" state wearing off (ie his STUN total drops below zero when his extra STUN goes away).

Megaera: I have started work on the other Furies (in fact I did that back in June, when I found out Megaera had won). Work (of the paying variety) got in the way, but I have strong ideas on powers for them.

I sort of regret giving Tisiphone two sorts of powers (mega points), but I have a couple of choices for how I am going to handle that. She's also the one whose personality is causing me a little trouble. I have one in mind, but I'm not sure I like it.

I know exactly how Alecto will behave. I am not sure if I could use the quote I had in mind, or if I'll have to opt for the tame one! ;)

Hermit
Sep 13th, '03, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by BoloOfEarth
Yes, it’s that time again (a little late, but hopefully not horribly so). The MC8 has already generated a lot of buzz here, but you’re getting my review anyway. ;)

And it's well worth the wait :)

I think my favorite Sentinel in DH13 was Microman, not sure why. Perhaps I have a sympathetic vibe for the "overlooked" hero.

Killer Shrike
Sep 13th, '03, 09:38 AM
As a side note, Ive never seen Chip & Dales Resuce Rangers -- sounde like some kind of a softcore porno for women "Male Strippers Save Lucky Housewives From Their Boring Existences!"

Something freaky like that. :D

Actually, I never watched much TV even as a kid. Never cared for it. My idiot brother on the other hand practically lived in front of the TV.....so most of my exposure to TV came from walking thru the family room while he was watching the idiot box ;)

BoloOfEarth
Sep 13th, '03, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Killer Shrike
As a side note, Ive never seen Chip & Dales Resuce Rangers -- sounde like some kind of a softcore porno for women "Male Strippers Save Lucky Housewives From Their Boring Existences!"

Something freaky like that. :D


Actually, it was a Disney cartoon series about, oh, 12-14 years ago, involving those two chipmunks that tormented Donald Duck. In one episode, Chip gets the ability to stretch and becomes the superhero Rubberbando.

By the way, my wife and I love your sig line.

Nato
Sep 13th, '03, 10:11 PM
I agree, both Blaine and Derrick did some great work in this issue. Nice work guys.

JohnTaber
Sep 15th, '03, 02:46 PM
Hi Gents: I have NOT read 100% of the latest issue yet but a couple of things are nagging at me.

The issue appears to be 95% Champions characters. I would rather have seen the winners posted 1 per issue just after they won (i.e. right away) OR have them spread out so the entire issue is not Champions characters. Maybe 2 per issue or something?

On a related note about the issue...

I essentially NEVER use published Champs HEROES. I use villains every so often but not heroes. I know I know...I plan to convert the M8 team into villains possibly but I just wanted to air my opinion.

I dunno...in my mind issue #13 does not look that good...I like a mix of stuff. The art IS top notch! :D

Can I vote for a regular column, maybe only a page or two long, that contains adventure hooks? That would be cool...

Killer Shrike
Sep 15th, '03, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by BoloOfEarth
Actually, it was a Disney cartoon series about, oh, 12-14 years ago, involving those two chipmunks that tormented Donald Duck. In one episode, Chip gets the ability to stretch and becomes the superhero Rubberbando.
Ah. I see. Truth is stranger than fiction I suppose. Or in this case, fiction is stranger than fiction. Im sure there is a deeper meaning to all this, but damned if I can figure it out ;)

Originally posted by BoloOfEarth
By the way, my wife and I love your sig line. Thanx! I didnt think of it of course; if I did Id have made a lot of money off of my clever wit by now. Sadly, Im just not that clever ;)

One of my players has a shirt with this on it. The 1st time he wore it I almost shot Mt Dew out my nose when he walked in the door. I have it printed out and posted outside my cubicle. Youd be amazed at how many supposed IT Professionals -- even some of my fellow developers -- wander by and ask "so what are the other 8 types?" or something to that effect. I get to roll my eyes and make fun of them, which makes me feel better about the fact that Im sitting in a 8 x 12 cubicle and people wandering by my Les Nesman are free to bug me without having to go thru a secretary or copious screening first. ;)

mattingly
Sep 16th, '03, 06:48 AM
The issue appears to be 95% Champions characters. I would rather have seen the winners posted 1 per issue just after they won (i.e. right away) OR have them spread out so the entire issue is not Champions characters. Maybe 2 per issue or something?

That was my decision. Normally, I try to have at least a little something for each of the major genres in any given issue, but the MC8 winners took up more space than I had originally expected. Especially since Ben and Darren wrote up the "group history," it didn't seem right to split them up.

Next issue, though, there should be a good bit of Fantasy Hero served up.

Hermit
Sep 16th, '03, 08:31 AM
Well, John, I hope when you read it all you decide you like it after all. :) I confess, I'm glad the MC8 were kept together because I'd really wanted to see what the other winners were like and do not (currently) subscribe.

Originally posted by JohnTaber

I essentially NEVER use published Champs HEROES. I use villains every so often but not heroes. I know I know...I plan to convert the M8 team into villains possibly but I just wanted to air my opinion.


It should be pretty easy to convert them if need be. Though getting them together might be harder to rationalize.

I can see Stalker having gone the killer vigilante route with just a few psychological tweaks. A darker version of him might even team up with Thunderbird.

Conversely, there's nothing to prevent Stalker I's body (and suit) from having been found by the WRONG guy. Stalker II would then become muscle for hire (or an assassin if he's good enough at it) while a certain George was trying to stop him.

While Steadfast wasn't designed to be a whacked out zealot, he could be made one. He could merely make 'sinful' heroes lives hell, or he could even hunt them down as 'abominations'.

On the flip side, if you want Steadfast truly evil... what if he had called on God and no help came? In desperation, he says something he'd regret about selling his soul. You could make his power from the 'other' side. Steadfast (And likely he'd change that name) could then either be a desperate puppet trying to get his soul back (Kind of like Hell Rider in 4th Ed) or totally twisted and reborn to evil.

(excuse me, I have to go take a shower now... I feel unclean ;) )

I know you didn't ask for input on it, but I DO want them to be useful to you.

Talon
Sep 16th, '03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Killer Shrike
One of my players has a shirt with this on it. The 1st time he wore it I almost shot Mt Dew out my nose when he walked in the door. I have it printed out and posted outside my cubicle. Youd be amazed at how many supposed IT Professionals -- even some of my fellow developers -- wander by and ask "so what are the other 8 types?" or something to that effect.

Get one of these:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/lights/59e0/

I've gotten similar effects around my office, plus it's actually useful. :)

Talon
Sep 16th, '03, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by JohnTaber
I essentially NEVER use published Champs HEROES. I use villains every so often but not heroes. I know I know...I plan to convert the M8 team into villains possibly but I just wanted to air my opinion.

I'm sure you could convert Lady Liberty to a villain, but I'm not going to try it! She actually works very well as an NPC in a number of modes: a cop with a mini-mystery to solve; a mystic adviser/contact/mentor; an independent hero.

Boy, as a villain she'd be a real pain in the ass. :)

JohnTaber
Sep 16th, '03, 10:19 AM
Great comments guys...thanks! :)

FYI. I still plan to buy every issue of DH...I just wanted to let folks know what I thought... ;)

Talon
Sep 16th, '03, 10:47 AM
Here's what I thought of the other MC8:

PsiPhon: I like the hook of reformed villain, and the great non-standard explanation for the swollen head. A very good "moral dilemma" NPC to drop into a game.

El Aguijon: Great history and powers set. If I was choosing a PC out of the MC8, he'd be on the short list (get it?). Seriously, I love the combination of plot hooks, personality traits, and abilities.

Stalker: This has been said already, but...the Choir is cool. The dual nature of Stalker's origin is also very nice, and I really like the special effect for Luck. While not so much a moral dilemma, he would provide a great mini-mystery for PCs to solve.

Raaktor: Very original concept of what was (at least for me) the hardest concept to remove from the standard stereotypes. I like the non-mentalist mental powers, and the use of RSR for his "super-skill" powers. Well done.

Steadfast: I never would have thought of a faith-based character for that picture! A good concept (solid, even) and a great set of powers.

Megaera: I like the mythological origin, and the fact that she's not a stereotypical female hero in pretty much any way at all. A very well-crafted character,

Commando Rubberbando: You had me with the name. :) Great concept which touches on a lot of the standard elastic tropes while remaining very, very original.

Secret Master
Sep 17th, '03, 05:05 PM
BoloOfEarth:
As time goes by I'm trying new things with YGHC; but if you folks don't like a particular experiment, then I defiantly will not repeat it. Reynard the Fox was just such an experiment, as is the article I just sent Dave for DH#14. Let me know what you think.... and thanks for the textbook statement. That is praise of the highest sort.

Jason

Arthur
Mar 13th, '04, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by BoloOfEarth

Optional Maneuvers: I’m not normally one for modifying or adding to the rules, but this article seems to do a good job of working “within the system,” even though it has the sidebar note that these aren’t official HERO rules. I think I might go with some of these, but I’m leery of having my players draw up new maneuvers on the fly.


Thanks for the kind words. I did my best to reverse-engineer all the existing Maneuvers. Glad to hear you were favorably impressed.

As I stated in the article, I too would not want my players to come up with new Maneuvers in the middle of a game unless they were VERY simple (like swapping OCV for DCV). Even then, I might put a stop to it if it started to get abusive.