Spear-based Martial Arts

[Ragnarok]

I've often tinkered with the idea of creating a character skilled in the use of a spear, but never actually got around to it. Well, now I am. I think such a character would be really unique and cool because you don't really see people using spears that often.

What I need help with is the specific martial maneuvers. I figure that such character would have...



Some sort of legsweep attack to take the target down. Probably requiring a Strength roll for your average human-sized target. Either sweeping with the haft or hamstringing with the blade.
Martial Block (parrying with haft)
Some sort of extra damage "critical" attack, like an impaling attack. Negatives to DCV maybe?
A bludgeoning hit with the haft, probably the capped bottom.
Perhaps a Disarm


I'm thinking that Find Weakness would also go well with this build (hitting chinks in the armor, like the neck, or the knees, or the armpit, you get the idea...)

What do you all think? Anything I'm missing?

[Escafarc]

Are you looking for something non-Asian in feel? Otherwise the "Chinese" Spear is a common weapon in Kung Fu.

[Ragnarok]

Yeah, I was trying to stay away from the Asian-centric aspect. Though, at some point an effective technique is an effective technique. I could probably just slap a different name on the Kung Fu fighting style, if it came to that.

As I recall, the guy who plays Prince Nuada in Hellboy 2 received a crash course in what I think is the Kung Fu spear form.

[Escafarc]

I usally end up using Kung Fu no matter what name I call it with maybe additiion of a non-traditional manuever or two. Kung-fu is very versitile.

[Ragnarok]

True. Though the Kung Fu build I see in the Rulebook isn't really what I'm looking for.

[Lucius]

I've often tinkered with the idea of creating a character skilled in the use of a spear, but never actually got around to it. Well, now I am. I think such a character would be really unique and cool because you don't really see people using spears that often.

What I need help with is the specific martial maneuvers. I figure that such character would have...



Some sort of legsweep attack to take the target down. Probably requiring a Strength roll for your average human-sized target. Either sweeping with the haft or hamstringing with the blade.
Martial Block (parrying with haft)
Some sort of extra damage "critical" attack, like an impaling attack. Negatives to DCV maybe?
A bludgeoning hit with the haft, probably the capped bottom.
Perhaps a Disarm


I'm thinking that Find Weakness would also go well with this build (hitting chinks in the armor, like the neck, or the knees, or the armpit, you get the idea...)

What do you all think? Anything I'm missing?

The basic attack would have a DCV bonus (keeping them at bay)

There'd also be a charge/set manuever with bonuses for relative velocity (i.e. you charging them, or you setting vs their charge)

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises had planned to put on and charge admittance to an exhibit of spears, javelins, and lances from Armorica, but abandoned the project upon realizing that the public was less eager than expected to learn all there is to know about Brittany spears.

[Ragnarok]

Good stuff Lucius, thanks.

I'd visit. But I suspect I'm also more interested in old weapons than the general public.

[Killer Shrike]

Myrmidon (http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/NPCs/Hegemony/Myrmidon.HTML)

[Lord Widebottom]

Little hard to find much info on it, but there is also a Japanese art called sojutsu (http://www.yachigusaryu.com/school_sojutsu.html). Might find some inspiration there.

[Odraude]

Some ideas.

A choke where you strangle someone with the shaft
A nerve strike where the spear hits a weak point (neck, groin, wrists)
An armour piercing strike from above (jump then stab down)
A throw using the shaft of the spear

From something less realistic, try watching this and replace the bo staff with spear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhW03Rac73o


Spears are good for keeping your distance in melee. Attack the sword swinger before they can get to you and keep your distance.

[Old Man]

KS beat me to it... the Greeks were really big on one-to-one spear tactics, often in conjunction with the shield. Lots of overhand usage (to get over opponent shields).

[Odraude]

Also look into Mesoamerica spear arts, specifically Aztec and Incan. I can't seem to find anything good right now... but Ill keep searching.

[Shadowsoul]

Another possible avenue of research.

Celtic martial arts. (http://sportales.com/martial-arts/celtic-martial-arts/)

Celtic Weapons. (http://scottishmist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=48&Itemid=63)

Gaelic Warfare. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_warfare)

[Ragnarok]

I actually should have clarified this first....

The concept I have is of an agile, acrobatic guy who fights with both hands on the spear, so he can use staff-like attacks when appropriate. Not really interested in a shield+spear combo. I could definitely see him pulling some acrobatic moves where he can get a good angle for AP.

Keep it coming! Great stuff.

[Old Man]

Ah. Well if we're making something up...

- a long-range strike, with the wielder gripping the very back end of the spear... guess this'd be defensive strike
- a throw, where the wielder tangles up the target's limbs and uses the leverage to fling the victim
- pole vaulting, possibly in conjunction with a high-damage kick or movethrough
- twirling the spear to make a sort of autofire slashing attack
- twirling the spear to deflect missiles

Also, if you have time, see if you can find fight scenes from "Musa the warrior" on youtube. Based in Asia, but the spear combat seems more cinematic than kung fu.

[Lawnmower Boy]

There was a (fairly) recent article in Antiquity, I think, about Bronze-Age halberds and possible fighting tactics. They're about 11 feet, same as a half-pike, bill, glaive, or all those other Gygaxian gadgets that were used two-handed without being as stodgy as pikes. If I recall correctly, the conclusion was that people would normally use them like quarterstaffs in hand-to-hand, seeking to knock the enemy down, and then use the spikily-pointy bit on the end for the finishing blow.

I'm not convinced, but while you're looking through the back issues, check out the article on slings, because that one rocks.

[Captain Obvious]

There's a spearfighting martial art in Tuala Morn.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Disclaimer: I do not have the 6th edition, so I am not aware of any changes. Any stats I post are 5th Edition versions.

A spear fighting art should be pretty easy to build, but there are a few things to consider.

The first thing is if your GM is using the Weapon Sizes option. In this option a character wielding a Medium (M) or Short (S) weapon gains a -1 penalty to their OCV when trying to his someone with a Long Weapon (L). The spear is a Long weapon, so that means the majority of opponents you face will get a -1 to their OCV when they face you, until they hit you (at which point the penalty is reversed until you hit them back) Take advantage of this option if you GM is using it and always keep this in mind for your character during encounters.

How is your spear fighter going to fight? You mention an acrobatic style, which is very cool. Acrobatic type characters are known for their agility and can be notoriously difficult to hit. Lets build on that premise.

Lets look at the following maneuvers:

Defensive Strike: One of the best maneuvers in the game. While it doesn't give any damage bonus, it provides a +1 OCV bonus, making the characters attacks slightly more accurate. However the big payoff is in the +3 DCV bonus. The character will have the same DCV as a character using the Standard Dodge maneuver, but will still be able to move and attack! When your character faces off against opponents with comparable Combat Values, this move will make the character extremely difficult to hit...couple that with the -1 OCV penalty for facing off against a longer weapon and your character will prove quite elusive to his enemies. This move is absolutely invaluable when facing off against multple attackers. Utilize this maneuver in conjunction with Defensive Maneuver II (or better) to kick serious buttock. (or rather to avoid getting your butt kicked!)

Martial Strike: A solid middle of the line maneuver. It doesn't provide an OCV bonus, but it does provide a nice +2 DCV bonus and a +2D6N damage bonus (or +1 DC for a killing damage weapon). This maneuver is good to use when facing off against an opponent of equal skill to help in the area of defense. The extra damage bonus can help put the enemy down faster or help the weapon penetrate armor better.

Offensive Strike: This is the big damage dealer. Offensive strike gives a hefty +4D6N damage bonus (0r +2 DC to a killing weapon) so this is the one you want to use to put your enemies down quickly or to puncture an enemy with heavy armor. The down side is that the attack isn't very accurate with a -2 penalty to OCV. However the maneuver does give a +1 DCV bonus when using it, so one doesn't have to give up defense for big damage with this maneuver.

Charge: A classic move for a spear wielder. Your character would charge into his enemy at full force using his momentum to skewer the opponent. This is the big damage causing maneuver. Even moreso than Offensive Strike and Sacrifice Strike if one configures their character correctly (more on that later) Unfortunately, there is a -2 DCV penalty that comes with this maneuver, but if you hit the opponent, it shouldn't matter as they will probably be dead.

Fast Strike: Probably my favorite maneuver in the UMA. This maneuver provides no DCV bonus (or penalty) but it provides a hefty +2 bonus to OCV and a +2D6N (+1DC killing) bonus to damage. It is very useful when one needs an extra OCV bonus such as when you are aiming for a specific hit location or attempting to hit an enemy with a high DCV. It also works great for Sweep maneuvers, as the initial +2 OCV bonus gives your character the ability to hit twice with no reduction in his own OCV. In essence, Fast Strike gives Sweep-oriented characters an extra attack at no OCV penalty!

Leg Sweep: Another classic maneuver for a Staff wielding character. If your character intends to use his spear as a makeshift quarterstaff (what spear wielder worth his salt doesn't?) then this maneuver is almost required. Great for depriving characters of initiative on subsequent phases. If faced with a faster opponent, Leg sweep them, then get the drop on them in the next phase. (I recommend Leg Sweep, then Offensive Strike while they are down)

Takedown: simply an alternative to Leg Sweep. Leg Sweep automatically attacks the targets leg region. Takedown is a general attack maneuver and can hit any location but also knocks the opponent down like Leg Sweep. An all around good maneuver, not as much damage as Leg Sweep but has a bonus to both OCV and DCV (+1 each) and costs the same is Leg Sweep. I personally favor Takedown over Leg Sweep.

Shove: This is a cool maneuver for a spear wielder to posses. Basically Shove forces the opponent back several Hexes based on the STR involved (the Character's STR plus the maneuver bonus which is +15). How is this advantageous for the spear wielder? Well, if an opponent gets inside your spear wielder's gaurd and reverses the OCV penalty for L vs M weapon, simply Shove them back a few Hexes and the game starts all over again. Pretty slick huh?

For defensive maneuvers you have to decide if you want Martial Block or Defensive Block. Both are good. Martial Block gives a slightly better OCV to facilitate the OCV vs OCV block roll, but Defensive Block is great to use when facing multiple attackers because of the +3 DCV bonus (essentially the same as blocking and dodging!) For a highly acrobatic character, Martial Dodge is a must, though Flying Dodge is also good for highly mobile characters who move around the battlefield a lot.

There is much more to discuss, but I have to go for now. Will post more later.

[Nolgroth]

And the HERO Martial Arts guru has spoken. Better listen too.

[Beast]

you might look up Halberd styles
as it is a spear,axe,hook combo
and is a western weapon

[kahuna's bro]

is there a template oin fantasy hero?if so maybe that can be adapted toma spear fighter

[Ninja-Bear]

Sojutsu/naganita is in Ultimate Martial artist 5th. If you get a chance to look at it, it could give you some ideas. One thing that I didn't agree with was that if you wanted to use the shaft like a staff, then you had to wf: staff. WF: spear only allowed you to use the pointy end. They also had a NND manuever defined as striking a vulnerable spot with the butt of the weapon.

[The Suave]

Acrobat + Spear = Zipline

[Lucius]

Sojutsu/naganita is in Ultimate Martial artist 5th. If you get a chance to look at it, it could give you some ideas. One thing that I didn't agree with was that if you wanted to use the shaft like a staff, then you had to wf: staff. WF: spear only allowed you to use the pointy end. They also had a NND manuever defined as striking a vulnerable spot with the butt of the weapon.

Whereas I have to agree. Not sure it should be a seperate weapons element in a martail art, but I could see that too.

Look at it this way - if you're capable of using a spear shaft like a staff, is there any reason you would not be able to use a staff like a staff?

Lucius Alexander

Keeping a palindromedary on staff

[Ninja-Bear]

Whereas I have to agree. Not sure it should be a seperate weapons element in a martail art, but I could see that too.

Look at it this way - if you're capable of using a spear shaft like a staff, is there any reason you would not be able to use a staff like a staff?

Lucius Alexander

Keeping a palindromedary on staff

I think that they did it this way so to be "fair". You aren't to use the staff for free. But for one point, I won't squabble to much.

[Ninja-Bear]

Another thing that you may want to keep in mind is weapon length. In Ninja hero 4th, the stretching for polearms were not bought as 0 end. The reason was in Asian styles there are techniques which the user can "choke up" on the spear as to not have a penalty for using it at close range. Also speaking of length, how long are you considering the spear? Also can this system be used empty handed? There is a fencing style listed in the ulitmate Martial Artists books which allowed you to buy barehanded element with the restriction though that you could only use certain techniques with it, such as disarm, block, and dodge. You couldn't do a martial strike barehanded. I'm curious, even though this is for a fantasy game, how "realistic" are you keeping it?

[Ragnarok]

The spear I had in mind would be about 8 feet. I wasn't really thinking about lots of barehanded elements of the martial art (though that would be cool), just mostly about what are a few awesome "tricks" I could do with a spear.

[Odraude]

Is there magic in your setting? I know you want to be a bit more low key with magic so here is an example of a magic spear that is more low fantasy magic. Maybe you can find it on your journeys. It's built keeping the weapon advantages/limitations of 6E2 in mind. I based it off of the medium spear.

Spear of Coinchenn: A magic spear made from the bone of a massive sea dragon known as Coinchenn. It has barbs on the end of the spear that can bypass the hardiest of armours and strike a clean blow into the enemy.
HKA 2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; -1/2), Armour Piercing (-1/4) plus +1 2-point OCV CSL plus +2m Reach: 56 Active Points; Real Weapon (-1/4), Two Handed Weapon (-1/2), OAF (-1), STR Min (13; -1/2): 17 Real Points

[DusterBoy]

Joint lock/throw using the staff of the spear

[Ninja-Bear]

Copper Spear had a special attack called the spear cyclone. A 2" nonselective area affect.

[Ragnarok]

Awesome stuff, guys, this is gold.

[Odraude]

Copper Spear had a special attack called the spear cyclone. A 2" nonselective area affect.

Well in 6th this could be

Spear Cyclone: Area of Effect for up to 50 AP worth of medium spears (2m radius, +1/4); 12 Active Points

[Ninja-Bear]

Ragnarok, please post on what you decided on. I for one am curious . :)

[Ragnarok]

Ragnarok, please post on what you decided on. I for one am curious . :)

I will, though it probably will take a few days at least. I have schoolwork to do, then I need to sort out things from three separate campaigns I'm involved in right now. Then, I might be able to tinker around with some of these ideas and throw something together. I will say I am leaning toward something like NuSoardGraphite posted, with a few modifications here and there.

Thanks everyone for contributing, and so quickly! There are plenty of things here I probably would have overlooked myself. That being said, the thread remains open of course in case anyone has any other suggestions to make. :)

[Lawnmower Boy]

Okay! Now that all the smart people have posted the useful stuff, I can link to Brothers of the Spear (http://www.comicvine.com/brothers-of-the-spear/49-7426/)!

No scans, though. :(