Legal Questions: Pink Defense

[logue]

I apologize for the long post in advance, but feel it’s necessary to bring the relevant considerations to light before judgments are made.
I have lurked on these boards since nearly 1995, rarely posting since so many questions come down to “What will the GM allow?” I appreciate the amount of trust placed in the GM by this game system, and so I normally resort to direct communication with my GM. The question I have of a legal matter. My gaming group consists of engineers (mostly computer related) and Mail Delivery Specialists. We possess all the combined legal knowledge that can be gleaned from watching “Law and Order and the History Channel (i.e none at all). I realize that the final arbiter of this issue is, in fact, my GM. Unfortunately my GM, I, and the rest of my gaming group have no real world knowledge on which to base our decisions.
So I beseech the members of this community to dispel my ignorance with some level of real world expertise.
I’m in a super hero campaign. Our main opposition, at this point, is a lawyer (Ms W.) with minimal super-powers (High PRE and possible low level Mind Control). She does not directly oppose the super-heroes; but wisely, sends others to perform nefarious deed on her behalf. This has caused us to attempt to gather intelligence on her and her boss(es); Corporation CPT. Thus far these attempts have been thwarted by the “Pink Defense”. The Pink Defense is a form of precognition that determines if you are going to perform actions that are to the detriment of Ms. W’s parent corporation (CPT); and if you are, then it transforms you into a bright pink version of yourself. It works on mice intent on stealing food from the break room (acting on natural instinct). It works on a temporary fashion for those who have the intent, but do not follow through on the intent. It works PERMAENTLY on people opposed to the operation of the corporation in their city who trespass on corporation property to throw stink bombs in to the reception area of Corporation CPT; and then retreat. The retreat was prevented by uniformed security personnel in most cases. Those detained by security personnel were eventually released free of the “Pink Defense”. Those who avoided the security personnel are still bright pink.
My question is “What are the legal ramifications of the “Pink Defense” according to legal precedent currently in effect?” We know that this defense applies to employees of corporation CPT as well as every single person entering the business property of Corporation CPT or the personal premises of Ms. W. There are no signs posted declaring the existence of the “Pink Defense”.
My line of questioning; based on my exceptionally limited knowledge of the legal field falls into two main categories. Please expound on any additional lines of argument that I have neglected and do not limit yourself to the lines of argument that I have delineated.
Does the “Pink Defense” violate any legal protection versus unreasonable search and seizure for employees that have signed a contract with stipulations regarding search in relation to determining “moral turpitude”.
Does the “Pink Defense” constitute a form of slavery to Corp CPT? Consider that failure to act in the corporation’s best interest, regardless of morality, ethics, or legality; and that any abrogation of the corporation’s best interests results in an irreversible change (turning bright pink) to that person with the ONLY recourse being petitioning the corporation for reversal of the same

Thanks for your patience in reading this ridiculously long post and any responses; with especial thanks to those versed in the legal arts for their responses.

[Ian Mackinder]

Yikes.

Not a legal expert, but it does sound to me like this 'Pink Defense' would be a MAJOR violation of both civil rights and safety laws. This corporation is using an unknown (or, at least, very very very undocumented) process on people without either prior warning OR prior consent. No indications as to possible long-term effects, or even that these have ever been examined.

Sounds to me like this bunch would get into a world of hurt very quickly - the class action suits will be simply ROLLING in.

[DusterBoy]

No way this is legal. And everyone knows that pink is teh ebil.

(No not P!nk the singer fools, pink the "colour" :D)

[McCoy]

Wow.

It's 4 am here, I may have a different answer after I think about it. But my first reaction is that unless the trespassers can claim they are being harmed by being turned pink, the corporation could argue that this is no different than identifying them through security camera footage. If the pink people didn't do what the company claims they did, they are, of course, free to pursue that matter through the civil courts (probably a bluff, this would involve disclosing in open court just how the "pink defense" selects those it turns pink and what precautions are in place to prevent false positives).

Employees, much more complex, probably depends on how coercive the demands are for receiving the "cure." If it is something like "Sign the non-disclosure agreement, hand in your resignation, clean out your desk, and it will fade by the time you leave the building," I'm thinking legal. If it involves any sort of "get back to work and we'll see," more questionable. I may be back after I figure out just what questions I need to ask.

[kahuna's bro]

why is the print inthe OP so small ?i can barely read it

[wick]

I would think that there would be a lot of Pink people working at the company. I mean it is pretty extreme trigger. just think about an employee who gets frustrated at the fax machine and...whoosh turns Pink. The trigger seems really too touchy to be useful.

If you think about this in terms of Dye markers in bank vault money bags (the closest analogy) sure the criminals can't sue the banks for being dyed (not sure in if true) but then again bank robbery is a fairly serious crime and criminals know there maybe dye and take the risk. In terms of the pink defense, in a normal society people have an expectation not to be turned pink for some minor activity, it seems overkill for minor crimes much less bad feelings towards the company.

Intent: People can be held in the Custody of law enforcement officers if there is a risk of a person committing a serious crime but they are otherwise not imprisioned for very long unless they had committed a crime and are otherwise unpunished. This company seems to punish people and mice above and beyond established legal boundaries. Only in extreme cases such as threats made against our countries leader or threats against national security is there an extreme reaction for actually doing nothing.

Ohh.. and my advice on taking down this company:
A. find an insider and convince him that he needs to provide you with certain information to "help the company." In fact the information would be damning.
B. infiltrate the company and take the pink hit, hope that you can fix this condition later. Note: That being pink colored will only have cause a major/ imprison reaction toward security at the company that you just took down..i.e. you will just have the stigma of being pink.
C. Same as B, but up your Power Defense.

[Netzilla]

Does the “Pink Defense” constitute a form of slavery to Corp CPT? Consider that failure to act in the corporation’s best interest, regardless of morality, ethics, or legality; and that any abrogation of the corporation’s best interests results in an irreversible change (turning bright pink) to that person with the ONLY recourse being petitioning the corporation for reversal of the same

Not a lawyer, but I suspect that this would end up violating various Whistleblower laws.

[Beast]

what about paint bombs in money that banks toss in when you rob them
while this is paint that will wear off with time (and a lot of scubbing)

marking a tresspasser might be legal to ID that they did tresspass(you can only get marked in a certain area)
but marking someone on their thoughts is totally invasion of privacy and the 5th amendment

lets say somebody from PETA hated the animal testing and wanted to take the CPT to court to ruin them would be come pink along with anybody who helped them
or the resident down the street from the HQ that hates how all the parking dumps on to their street because it is the fastest way to the freeway and at 5pm it is a mad house

[McCoy]

If you think about this in terms of Dye markers in bank vault money bags (the closest analogy) sure the criminals can't sue the banks for being dyed (not sure in if true)
This is America. You can sue anyone for any reason or no reason. Winning is a separate issue.


If you think about this in terms of Dye markers in bank vault money bags (the closest analogy) sure the criminals can't sue the banks for being dyed (not sure in if true) but then again bank robbery is a fairly serious crime and criminals know there maybe dye and take the risk. In terms of the pink defense, in a normal society people have an expectation not to be turned pink for some minor activity, it seems overkill for minor crimes much less bad feelings towards the company.

marking a tresspasser might be legal to ID that they did tresspass(you can only get marked in a certain area)
but marking someone on their thoughts is totally invasion of privacy and the 5th amendment
Again, can pursue that in civil court, but to get the criminal justice system involved would mean first making a prima facie case that the "victims" were being harmed, beyond being embarrassed, by being turned pink.

[casualplayer]

Again, can pursue that in civil court, but to get the criminal justice system involved would mean first making a prima facie case that the "victims" were being harmed, beyond being embarrassed, by being turned pink.

Prima facie! Arrrgh!

Oh wait, you used it correctly. Nevermind.

[Balabanto]

Just because it turns someone pink does not mean that they are visible. Send an invisible guy in to steal the information you need, and when they try to say the evidence was illegally obtained, you tell the judge "It's unreasonable for us to rely on ordinary methods when any attempt to acquire the information legally under normal circumstances would have resulted in our inability to obtain the information in the first place. It should be illegal to use the law to bypass the legal system." Alternatively, go invisible and "Donate" the information you steal to the police department. You're going to be pink whether you do this or not. Just how big is the radius of this effect, anyway? You should test that to see how far it goes. If it covers the world, then you can get the government to shut them down, as if it crosses any national boundaries, technically, that's an act of war performed by private citizens, and constitutes terrorism. The nature of the effect is irrelevant. If I go to Canada, and I plot against this corporation, and I still turn pink, then there's an issue. If I go to venezuela, and I plot, and I still turn pink, there's an issue. You just have to document your research.

Alternatively, break into the computers of the IRS and turn pink. So what? Schedule them for a comprehensive audit of all their corporate holdings. No man can escape the IRS, and no woman or super can either. And if the IRS turns pink, well, all that will do is convince the IRS that the corporation is guilty, and make them look harder.

[McCoy]

Prima facie! Arrrgh!

Oh wait, you used it correctly. Nevermind.
Considered using a smiley behind it, thought too few people would get it.

[McCoy]

Just how big is the radius of this effect, anyway? You should test that to see how far it goes. If it covers the world, then you can get the government to shut them down, as if it crosses any national boundaries, technically, that's an act of war performed by private citizens, and constitutes terrorism. The nature of the effect is irrelevant. If I go to Canada, and I plot against this corporation, and I still turn pink, then there's an issue. If I go to venezuela, and I plot, and I still turn pink, there's an issue. You just have to document your research.
Good point!

[Beast]

turning somebody pink could be construed as vandalism and maybe even battery
throwing acid in ones face is a crime as it changes the persons looks even if it does not damage the eyes

there is the Spartacus ploy where everybody goes and has ill thoughts against CPT(even employees may hate their bosses and get turned pink and fired)to sue CPT and bring them down through massive lawsuits

in any case CPT is just going to have a bad time
the sniper mentalist goes and hits the CEO,CFO,etc with a short term mind control or mental illusion to get them turned pink
and then a cure will be found and the power turned off forever and the creator fired



This is America. You can sue anyone for any reason or no reason. Winning is a separate issue.



Again, can pursue that in civil court, but to get the criminal justice system involved would mean first making a prima facie case that the "victims" were being harmed, beyond being embarrassed, by being turned pink.

[McCoy]

turning somebody pink could be construed as vandalism and maybe even battery
throwing acid in ones face is a crime as it changes the persons looks even if it does not damage the eyes

No, you cannot vandalize a person, only an inanimate object such as a building or a car. Throwing acid causes pain and potentially causes scars, don't think (I'm assuming) painlessly turning someone pink rises to the same level. But disagreements like this are why we have judges (and remember in this case the judges are literally controlled by the GM).

[Beast]

ok so what would you call changing the color of somebody's skin color with out their permission and they commited no crime against CPT(may have thought it but have not acted on it)
remember the 5th amendment protects you from self incrimination, and this power circumvents that

also the GM came to us for thoughts


No, you cannot vandalize a person, only an inanimate object such as a building or a car. Throwing acid causes pain and potentially causes scars, don't think (I'm assuming) painlessly turning someone pink rises to the same level. But disagreements like this are why we have judges (and remember in this case the judges are literally controlled by the GM).

[Balabanto]

That's a hate crime, Beast. Also an excellent point. Many minority groups would be quick to point out that turning people "Pink" is the effective equivalent of turning them "non-black" or "non-asian" or "non-hispanic." The whole thing could be construed as racially motivated, or a colossal act of hate speech.

[McCoy]

ok so what would you call changing the color of somebody's skin color with out their permission and they commited no crime against CPT(may have thought it but have not acted on it)
If you passed out drunk and a buddy drew a magic marker moustach on your face, would that constitute battery? Not in any jurisdictition I know of. Might rise to harassment, take it to civil court.


remember the 5th amendment protects you from self incrimination, and this power circumvents that
Only if the pink people are being charged with a crime, and the "pink defense" is admissible in court.


also the GM came to us for thoughts
No, a player came to us,

I realize that the final arbiter of this issue is, in fact, my GM. Unfortunately my GM, I, and the rest of my gaming group have no real world knowledge on which to base our decisions.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Whether or not this is legal in your superhero world depends on the tone of the campaign. For anti-mutant type of setting it would almost certainly be illegal, because people are scared of powers. For a more cyber-punk style, it may very well be legal, because corporations control everything, including the government. In a four color campaign, it would probably be portrayed as a clever trap for "good guys" but a dirty, underhanded trick if used by "bad guys".

Personally I think public outcry would force the company to end the practice, legal or not, especially as people learn about it and get angry thoughts about the Pink Defense, which could turn them pink, and then their friends and relatives would be outraged and start turning pink too. Before long half the country would be pink and mob mentality takes over.

One final point to consider though. Any judge considering ruling the Pink Defense illegal would likely turn pink. Consider how that would affect their decision.

[Netzilla]

If you passed out drunk and a buddy drew a magic marker moustach on your face, would that constitute battery? Not in any jurisdictition I know of. Might rise to harassment, take it to civil court.

The magic marker isn't permanent like the 'Pink Defense' apparently is. So, one might make a case for disfigurement. How would it be handled if it were a tattoo rather than magic marker?


Only if the pink people are being charged with a crime, and the "pink defense" is admissible in court.I have to wonder if an argument could be made regarding the 'pinkness' biasing the jury in such a case; kind of like not allowing a bank robber to wash the ink off their hands before trial.

I also suspect that the corporation in question would be beset by pink animal rights activists as pink mice (already mentioned), squirrels (digging up the company lawn), birds (beware pigeon bombing runs), etc, start turning up all over the place.

I think this corporation is going to be spending a lot of money on legal fees.

[Broadsword]

I was thinking similar to Balabanto when I read the first post. How big an area does the effect cover? A small area confined to the corporate properties could be argued to be a security system, or crime prevention system, but if it goes out into public property the Corporation is in trouble.

Who determines the intent of the actions? If it is the person committing the action, then you should be able to convince people that what they are doing is in the corporations best interest and so then you could rationalize just about anything, including closing down the whole company.

If it is a powered person who is causing the effect, then you should just need to get at that person, (or machine) and then the problem will be gone. My vote is it is probably a machine of some kind. You could pull a "Ghost Busters" and get the EPA involved!!

[dmjalund]

I had an image of the Jury, one by one, turning pink

[McCoy]

The magic marker isn't permanent like the 'Pink Defense' apparently is. So, one might make a case for disfigurement. How would it be handled if it were a tattoo rather than magic marker?
OP said it was reversable.

[AnotherSkip]

Hi! As Logues Gm I would like to chime in here.

A few things: testing has determined that...

It is limited to organics with brains on the property of the company and some of the residences they have provided to their employees.

It Is reversable so long as the individual admits to exactly what they have done wrong to Warthaw. Mechanically speaking it is a Transform but does not have Sticky (+1/2) Attached....

Shooting someone on the property from outside of the property does not turn them Pink.
Logue himself (Playing the versatile Mr Zero) has determined that stretching to say accquire objects/files would turn him pink. in essence the power has a warning setting. However it WILL cross over Shapeshifting *

It is Known....

Part of the contracts for this group in particular include clauses agreeing to surveilance while at their wokplace and at other company provided locations. in addition to a reasonable measures to prevent moral turpitude clause.

It is not known: if there are pink pigeons out there.
(the Campaign notes are here... http://www.criticalfumble.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16797 )

* and Multiform and Dulplication powers.

This is a puzzle to be solved by the team. So there are several details i feel i cannot share. At least one player has the abilities to solve this easly. However I certainly have no ill will for the player posting this. Good job Logue :D

[Roth]

Let me get this straight... if mice steal food from the break room that turns them pink because it harms "the company". How does this harm the company? It may harm an employee of the company, but as a whole the company will not really be impacted. Now if some one forms the intent to harm the company they also turn pink. What that means is that if some one were to intend to steal from the company they would turn pink and if some one at the company (high or low on the totem pole) was to do an illegal act that had nothing immediately to do with the company they would also turn pink, because if they were caught or exposed it would also harm the company. This means that Ms W would be constantly Pink, because if she is the mastermind behind various crimes, exposure of those crimes would also harm the company. If people who stink bomb the lobbey of the company building turn pink, because of harm to the company (and by the example of the mouse the company includes all employees) then for sure any employee or board member or whatever doing a crime, any crime, will also turn pink because doing so impacts other members of the company and will cause them some form of harm, whether physical, mental or emotional (cause a stink bomb would be some sort of emotional/mental harm to employees and anybody they run into afterwards) thus harming the company.



This also relies on how far the Pink Defense influences spreads. If it's only on the property of the company then only misdeeds against the company will make people pink when they are at work. This would include anybody thinking, when they are at work, about doing a crime that's not against the company, but is a crime in general because of the above reasons, If it is city/state/nation/world wide then we have people turning pink in their homes, if they are employees and doing any of the above. This would include Ms W and any of the upper echelon who think about doing illegal acts for the above mentioned reasons.

This is taking things to a logical extreme, but rules often do that. `` Causing Harm to the Company`` is a pretty big area of statement as we can see and who turns pink will depend on how the effect occurs. If the Pink Defense is caused by some kind of spell, power or machine, all of the people who harm the company, in any way whatsoever (and that means it doesn`t matter if the harm will increase the profits of the upper echelon or not) will turn pink (depending on area affected). If the effect is caused by a person who sees precognitively that these things will happen, then the company has him or her in their back pocket and it might not cause every person who might cause harm to the company to turn Pink.

I wrote this just after Anotherskip wrote his reply to the post... I`m just gonna leave my post as is, but some of my questions have been answered :)

[Prometheus]

This may not fall under Assault, but it can argued to be Battery or Trespass to the Person. Drawing a mustache on someone actually could be Battery, though it may get thrown out of court. Trespass doesn't have to involve land or property.

More importantly, how is a private company giving itself such blanket power over how it handles offenders not setting off alarms with local and state law enforcement? And why isn't a savvy hero making a public statement comparing this to Thought Crime and the Nazi regime? Whether or not the argument holds any substance, the negative PR will have them reeling.

[Netzilla]

OP said it was reversable.

Kind of:


It works PERMAENTLY on people opposed to the operation of the corporation in their city who trespass on corporation property to throw stink bombs in to the reception area of Corporation CPT; and then retreat.


...and that any abrogation of the corporation’s best interests results in an irreversible change (turning bright pink) to that person with the ONLY recourse being petitioning the corporation for reversal of the same

Then there was the clarification posted this evening:


It Is reversable so long as the individual admits to exactly what they have done wrong to Warthaw.

So, it's considerably more permanent than magic marker, which will wear off on it's own after about a week. Even a tattoo can be removed by someone other than the original tattoo artist, so this would seem even more permanent than that. Now, it doesn't carry the pain/disease risk that tattooing does but it still seems to be an (effectively) permanent disfigurement.

[Ian Mackinder]

It Is reversable so long as the individual admits to exactly what they have done wrong to Warthaw.

Hmm. Really sounds liike a "self-incrimination thing" is happening there.

Evil and depraved, anyhow. My compliments to the GM.

[Balabanto]

The problem is, it violates your right to personal property. Period. Let's say I want to sell my stock in the company. This weakens the company and causes it harm, so I turn pink. The end.

[Querysphinx]

The Pink Defense is a form of precognition that determines if you are going to perform actions that are to the detriment of Ms. W’s parent corporation (CPT); and if you are, then it transforms you into a bright pink version of yourself

What I want to know is how the (bleep) it knows that I am going to harm the company. I mean, if it's really precog and not mind reading than you could get a serious case of the observer effect going. I wasn't intending to harm the company but the precog engine determined that I was, so it turned me pink. This made me so mad that I harmed the company.

It also means that if someone sued the company and the court sent a clerk with a summons onto the company grounds, the clerk would be turned pink. This is assault on an officer of the law in the performance of his duties. And with charges like that you don't get to apologize and take it back later.

Bodily changing someone in such a way as to humiliate them would almost certainly amount to battery, especially if the only way to change back was in the hands of the corporation that did it to them in the first place. Has this Pink process been approved by the FDA or any other regulatory agency? If not, it amounts to experimenting on unwilling human subjects. You say it's safe, but can you prove it. What happens if someone has an allergic reaction?

Quite frankly, what I see happening is the govt. declaring emminent domain on the technology and developing it for military applications. Pink IEDs are so much easier to spot and so are pink suicide bombers.

[Matt Holck]

no body has committed suicide here

[Ian Mackinder]

no body has committed suicide here

It's all in the wording. dude. With the right wording, anything is possible.

[wick]

No, you cannot vandalize a person, only an inanimate object such as a building or a car. Throwing acid causes pain and potentially causes scars, don't think (I'm assuming) painlessly turning someone pink rises to the same level. But disagreements like this are why we have judges (and remember in this case the judges are literally controlled by the GM).


And would you say that Carrie from Stephen Kings book of the same name was not scarred by being turned red from a substance that was easily cleaned up. Sure the pigs blood did not cosmetically transform her for even a long period of time but it sure did long term mental/emotional issues that were quite damaging to all.


I am wondering on the mechanism for the Defense. if it is a precog rather than a mind reader. That means if I am an employee and I perform an action that harms the company I would turn pink, regardless of my intent. If you have a human or AI on the other end of the Precognition it could decide if the action deserves triggers the defense. If a CEO decides it is in the company's best interest to take a loss in the short term in order to get greater gains in the long run he should not turn Pink if there is a deicision maker precog but may turn pink if there is not. It also depends on how far out the precog can see. If he can see out 6 months then a CEO taking a risk for gains that will show up a year out will be pinked.

Also how are the heros trying to bring down the company? Legally, physically destroying, uncovering a secret to bring in the Government etcc?

Solution: Use computer hacking. You can remote access to cause harm or gather data.

Use robots/spirits/elementals or what have you to perform your actions.

Set up a long term trap. Example: If I were an employee and xeroxed incriminating data that could bring the company down and mailed it to a private post office box, and then quit the company (i have intent but the precog cannot see intent only results of my actrions right?). I could then bring the data out in the open at a future date that is currently past where the precog can see (by the time the PRECOG sees the results it is too late to stop the action).

[secretID]

[Too lazy to read whole thread - here's my 10 minutes of thought.]

You're not going to get anywhere on the privacy questions. Existing law obviously doesn't cover things like telepathy, clairvoyance, and precognition. The GM has to determine to what degree the campaign world has developed laws accounting for super powers. There's some brief guidance in the Champions book.

Re the slavery, I seriously doubt it - it's not at that level. Slavery, false imprisonment, kidnapping, etc. generally require a threat of force. However, it's likely a battery (harmful or offensive touching) and/or similar offenses, criminal and civil. Again, though, you've got some problems applying real life law to this situation. Most basically, how do you prove who caused them to turn pink?

I'll expand. You walk up to me and dump a can of paint over my head. I have an easy battery suit against you, because you've touched me in an offensive way (though my damages are minimal). If I can get the cops to care, you'll also probably get something like misdemeanor harassment, since criminal assault usually requires harm.

When we switch to your situation, you only have the civil battery if you can get this accepted as a "touch." Whether that could happen is - you'll be happy to hear - your GM's call! FYI, the law does allow for "touching" to be indirect, so programming a robot to offensively touch someone would be a battery.

Criminally, your situation is far worse than the can of paint because it's permanent. If I were a prosecutor, I would certainly be thinking of things like assault and mayhem. But again, you have the question of whether in your world the substantive law and the rules of evidence have been adjusted to accommodate supers.

[casualplayer]

According to current law, if the corporation is not able to corroborate the Pink result with some unimpeachable or really darn convincing evidence someone could wallop the corporation for Slander. Best be some proof that it was a righteous Pinking or the corp is going to pay in civil court.

[dmjalund]

Anyone thought of the slander (or is it libel) angle. Turning someone pink (especially if precog cannot be used as evidence) is making a statement that that person is about to commit a crime - before he actually commited it - it is claiming a person is guilty even before he commits the crime. Since it is indelible (effectively) it could be considered 'written'

[Matt Holck]

A lot of this stipulates that a corporation has something to hide that might but publicly or legally damaging to their operations

[McCoy]

And would you say that Carrie from Stephen Kings book of the same name was not scarred by being turned red from a substance that was easily cleaned up. Sure the pigs blood did not cosmetically transform her for even a long period of time but it sure did long term mental/emotional issues that were quite damaging to all.
Again, may have a civil case, not a criminal one.

[Matt Holck]

bribery
deception
blackmail (pinkmail)
harassment

[Clonus]

Anyone thought of the slander (or is it libel) angle. Turning someone pink (especially if precog cannot be used as evidence) is making a statement that that person is about to commit a crime - '

No, it isn't. It's a statement that the person is about to do something against the company. That something may be perfectly legal.

[Prometheus]

You don't actually need direct contact to claim battery-- it can be committed by the driver of a vehicle, for example.

More importantly, this corporation is acting as judge and jury in a presumed crime. And they're coercing a confession out of someone under duress ("If you don't admit what you've done, you stay pink."). They're not a law enforcement agency or an agent of the courts and they can't make up their own rules about private security. Pardon the pun, but that private security-- and this corporation can't possibly to have any authority beyond that-- is likely acting under color of law, when it is in fact not a law enforcement agency.

Get yourself a good lawyer. Preferably the bookish redhead-- she looks like good DNPC material.

[SKJAM!]

I can imagine any IRS auditor or other government regulator being turned pink the moment they ended up on the premises would cause some problems for the company.

[Matt Holck]

there is no telling the spread of the pink

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=6394497

Note: the practice of dying chinks was ended.
due to the the colorful chicks being abused by their peers

[Blue]

Are there degrees of pink? Does stealing a paperclip from the company give the same shade as if you planned to hack into the mainframe?

Regardless, I have no doubt that it's assault, same as when a crazy PETA protestor runs up to someone with a fur and throws paint on them.

A company has a right to read e-mails and search your desk; it's their premises and you're using their supplies. Courts uphold that sort of thing all the time. If there were a way in real life to read minds I wonder what the law would say. I mean, common sense says it would be illegal, but in times like these, you know someone would argue in favor. Taking a lie detector test is, on a very primitive level, voluntary. Sure they could fire you if you don't take it, but that's still an option. This seems very much not optional.

Funny thing is, I can't imagine if there were such a company in the real world that anyone would want to work for them, or do business with them, or buy from them.

[dmjalund]

If there is nothing stopping the company from reading thoughts not related to the company, than this would be a breach of privacy

[Matt Holck]

Unicorn has troubles with the concept of privacy

13 days since my boss coerced me into quitting
8 days since I've had no job

[bigbywolfe]

Are there degrees of pink? Does stealing a paperclip from the company give the same shade as if you planned to hack into the mainframe?

Regardless, I have no doubt that it's assault, same as when a crazy PETA protestor runs up to someone with a fur and throws paint on them.

A company has a right to read e-mails and search your desk; it's their premises and you're using their supplies. Courts uphold that sort of thing all the time. If there were a way in real life to read minds I wonder what the law would say. I mean, common sense says it would be illegal, but in times like these, you know someone would argue in favor. Taking a lie detector test is, on a very primitive level, voluntary. Sure they could fire you if you don't take it, but that's still an option. This seems very much not optional.

Funny thing is, I can't imagine if there were such a company in the real world that anyone would want to work for them, or do business with them, or buy from them.
I've never heard of someone being fired for not taking a polygraph. I mean, they aren't even admissible in court any more. If you have any references for that happening recently I'd be very interested.

[Netzilla]

I've never heard of someone being fired for not taking a polygraph. I mean, they aren't even admissible in court any more. If you have any references for that happening recently I'd be very interested.

Any company that did that probably wouldn't claim failure to take a polygraph as the reason for the firing (or the sole reason anyway). However, if you're in an at-will (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30022.html) state, refuse to take a polygraph and are let go without cause given, it's probably a fair bet that the polygraph was the cause.

[Ian Mackinder]

In such a case, a reason would be found for termination. May not be a particularly good reason, but it probably wouldn't be for merely refusing the polugraph test. Might be due to "cutbacks" or "attitude problems" or anything else - do enough digging and a reason can be found or created, I'm sure.

[Matt Holck]

or discovered

[SSgt Baloo]

At the very least, I would think that the company might become liable for coercion or extortion. You turn pink. The only way to turn back is to submit to the corporation's ministrations. If you are not an employee, they have no business instructing you what to do to return to your former color. The fact that they do so should weigh heavily against them when civil suits are filed on behalf of anyone who has been turned pink, regardless of whether they "got better". The example given above regarding IRS agents is a very good one. Federal agents, in the course of doing their legitimate duties, are rendered pink on the premises of Corporation X. Said agents can only be rendered unpink by submitting to demands of Corporation X ("Tell us exactly what you were doing that would harm Corporation X.") I don't think so, especially when undercover FBI agents start showing up for work sporting a shocking pink complexion.

Just how long would it be before Corporation X was under investigation for any number of reasons? At the very least, they would likely be given a cease-and-desist order preventing them from using their "pink defense". Just because "Nobody knows for certain it was us" doesn't mean that when the circumstantial evidence starts piling up nobody can do anything just because it's only "circumstantial evidence".

[Captain Obvious]

If this thing extends so far as to turn the mice in the break room pink, pretty much all the employees themselves are going to be pink by the end of the first week. Everyone that takes a personal call or a bathroom break or who zones out for a minute except on their own personal break time is costing the company wages and contributing no work in exchange. And that doesn't even get into those people who write a note to themselves on a company Post-It or use a company staple or paperclip on personal papers.

[Ian Mackinder]

Heck, any employee who ever gripes about the boss, or just finds parallels between 'Dilbert' and work, is probably for it.

[SSgt Baloo]

If this thing extends so far as to turn the mice in the break room pink, pretty much all the employees themselves are going to be pink by the end of the first week. Everyone that takes a personal call or a bathroom break or who zones out for a minute except on their own personal break time is costing the company wages and contributing no work in exchange. And that doesn't even get into those people who write a note to themselves on a company Post-It or use a company staple or paperclip on personal papers.


Heck, any employee who ever gripes about the boss, or just finds parallels between 'Dilbert' and work, is probably for it.
Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! I think we have our winners! I gotta spread some before I can rep Captain Obvious, but I was able to swing the repstick for Ian Mackinder. Of course, since (presumably) this isn't the actual state of things, I suppose the GMhadn't thought of it.


Hi! As Logues Gm I would like to chime in here.

[Snip!]


It is limited to organics with brains on the property of the company and some of the residences they have provided to their employees.
It Is reversable so long as the individual admits to exactly what they have done wrong to Warthaw. Mechanically speaking it is a Transform but does not have Sticky (+1/2) Attached....
Shooting someone on the property from outside of the property does not turn them Pink.
Logue himself (Playing the versatile Mr Zero) has determined that stretching to say accquire objects/files would turn him pink. in essence the power has a warning setting. However it WILL cross over Shapeshifting *
[Snip!]

* and Multiform and Dulplication powers.

[Snip!]

Given the above set of conditions, one might be able to:

Observe carefully from outside the premises, obtaining whatever intelligence you can by video, radio, and other "remote-sensing" devices, powers, or magics. Or you could send in a character who is inorganic to do your surveillance.
Use powers that do not require your presence on the property to obtain evidence, such as telekinesis, telepathy or what-have-you. Police could be alerted to goings-on at Warthaw by "anonymous tip" if sufficient evidence becomes available -- things like what's going on or where to find contraband, etc. I
Now I think about it, I'd like to hear more from the player(s) in the campaign regarding what Warthaw is up to.

[SSgt Baloo]

Kudos to AnotherSkip for the "attacking Flaming gorilla" in his campaign notes. Will Rep as soon as possible. :thumbup:

[dmjalund]

Send in Cameron

[Ian Mackinder]

Or you could send in a character who is inorganic to do your surveillance.

OR a Character for whom this colour change would be totally irrelevant. For example, somebody / something who is all-pink anyhow, or is permanently invisible, or is colour-blind and simply doesn't care how others see him / her / it, or has a power that allows them to change colour at will.

Depending on the exact nature of the Pink Defense, it could even be that somebody with suitable levels of Regen, or Power Defense, or Ego Defense, or certain kinds of Life Support, may be either immune or able to shrug off the effects very quickly. A GM call, basically.

Maybe no one in the group fits the exact criteria mentioned, but you never know. SOMEBODY would, somewhere. Probably a whole bunch of somebodies.