Any news on new Strike Force product?

[djday38]

Hi Steve and Darren,
For a long time now there has been rumours of Aaron Allaston working on a new version of Strike Force for hero 5th and maybe even a series of sourcebooks.
What is the situation with this project? is it still possible? any information you could give about the current and future status of the project would be great.

Also there has been occasional mention of you putting out the original Strike Force project as a PDF. What are the chances of this happening?

As the Strike Force sourcebook has aquired an almost holy grail like status amoung Champions players I feel either a new line of products or a re-release of the old one would be VERY popular.:D

rgds
Dean

[Steve Long]

Aaron's never specifically worked on "a new Strike Force" book, but he does have multiple books' worth of materials about that setting -- I've seen a good bit of it, and it's all pretty darn cool.

While we'd certainly like to consider publishing something of the sort at some point, no such project is currently on the schedule for the next couple of years. Furthermore, a Strike Force product(s) would almost certainly be a Hero Plus PDF book, since we have limited paper publishing resources. The sales of our excellent HP product Shades Of Black have been, to put the matter mildly, lackluster. That means the odds of us adding any major PDF products to the schedule may drop precipitously. It's simply not worth the extensive effort and time required to produce a book if it doesn't sell.

[ChaosDrgn]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Aaron's never specifically worked on "a new Strike Force" book, but he does have multiple books' worth of materials about that setting -- I've seen a good bit of it, and it's all pretty darn cool.

IIRC Aaron was going to create a book updating the Strike Force universe for 4th (5th?) and at some point it ballooned out of control and became more of a series of books, unless you wanted one that's probably double the size of Fred & Fantasy Hero. ;)

And as for buying an updated Strike Force, I'd purchase it regardless of PDF or actual book. Alston's writing is pretty much proven.

[Polaris]

Steve,

I do not believe using the lackluster sales of Shades of Black as an indication that the Hero Plus line should be curtailed significantly would be a fair conclusion to draw. Strike Force would have many sales advantages that Shades of Black simply did/does not have, such as:

1. The target audience of Hero Plus publications are the most die hard of Hero customers (people who frequent the site). Many of the people here have a strong affinity for Strike Force

2. A PDF is bought 'sight unseen'. Just as DoJ would not likely buy a manuscript from an author they have not had much familiarity with, customers are more inclined to buy a book sight unseen if they know the author. Aaron Allston is an icon of an author to the core Hero customers.

3. Strike Force offers more than just an adventure, it offers a lot of good setting material. While many of the people here have purchased Millenium City, most (if not all) could really use the additional setting information that SF could provide. We could gleen more ideas out of SF then we could from SoB. Knowing that, many would be more likely to purchase SF than they would SoB.

4. The Legend of SF makes it an almost necessary addition to a Hero gamer's library. Some might buy it just to have it, or to have a cleaner copy then the one they have had for years.

5. While I am FAR from an expert on the Champions Universe, looking through the message boards, I rarely see a lot of mention of Black Paladin.. he just doesn't seem to be a compelling villain for many people. Strike Force, as a supplement, has been talked about even this many years after it left print. The topic of SoB could have been part of the reason.

I believe that the Hero Plus line should be judged based upon its potential to appeal to the core Hero gamers (since that seems to be who it is marketed to--the people who come to the site).

Paying 12 dollars, then having to print it out for an adventure that people are going to get one use out of seemed, I think, excessive to pay for an unproven author (PLEASE do not take offense Allen, the greats were unproven when they started), a villain that does not seem overly compelling to the customers (I am sure there are people that do like BP, but he seems to remain largely below the perceptual floor here), and then only really be able to use it once.

Paying for a book that is a sourcebook (get many uses out of), from one of our favorite authors (Aaron Allston), with characters and settings that are still talked about this many years after publication ("Strike Force") seems more likely to many people.

Well, this is my opinion...:)

Polaris

[Lord Liaden]

Steve, I understand that the sales of Shades of Black have been a disappointment, but we're all aware that adventures tend to sell less than other types of game book to begin with. I hope that you're prepared to reserve judgement on the Hero Plus line until a few more of the products already advertised for it have gone through. They sound like they'd have wider utility, hence wider appeal.

Unless SoB has put the publication future of Gestalt, Meriquai Falls, Asian Bestiary and the Guide to Everyday Stuff in jeopardy. :(

[Ghost Archer]

Maybe we should get Hermit will start a "Who'd buy a Strike Force PDF" Poll?
Even without the 'Offical Hermit' Poll I put in my two cents . . . Yes, I'd buy it and the only reason I haven't bought SoB is, I'm lazy and will get to it shortly. If I remember . . . the mind isn't a sharp as it used to be.

[Steve Long]

Steve, I understand that the sales of Shades of Black have been a disappointment, but we're all aware that adventures tend to sell less than other types of game book to begin with. I hope that you're prepared to reserve judgement on the Hero Plus line until a few more of the products already advertised for it have gone through. They sound like they'd have wider utility, hence wider appeal.

The problem with that theory is that Champions Battlegrounds has not sold any worse than our average product -- in fact, it's sold better than several books we've published. I don't think the poor sales of SOB have anything to do with the fact that it's an adventure; they have to do with the fact that, regardless of quality or usefulness, people aren't as interested in buying PDFs.

It's also worth noting that there have been a number of public complaints, completely unjustified in my opinion, about the cost of SOB. Considering that all but one of the products you mention would be larger and thus even more expensive than SOB (possibly much larger and much more expensive), they become even more problematic.

I certainly haven't given up on the Hero Plus line yet -- please don't take it from my comments that I have! But I know how much work goes into producing a book, and I know that preparing a HP book takes virtually the same amount of my time as any other book. Therefore producing e-books becomes untenable if they don't sell enough to make roughly as much profit as a hardcopy book (they don't have to sell as many copies because the expenses are less, but the profit margin needs to be roughly equivalent). And since there are many books we can't or won't, for a variety of reasons, produce as hardcopy publications, if e-books can't earn their keep, it means some very cool books may simply never become available. That's a damn shame, but I'm not going to lose money just to produce something that's very cool.

This is not, BTW, something limited to e-books. If a particular type or line of harcopy books doesn't sell well enough for us to continue supporting it, we'd stop doing so and focus our efforts on products that provide a better return.

But as I say, all is not gloom and doom. The jury's still out on the subject, and (if I may be permitted to mix my metaphors) until the fat lady's sung all things remain possible. ;)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Steve Long
The problem with that theory is that Champions Battlegrounds has not sold any worse than our average product -- in fact, it's sold better than several books we've published. I don't think the poor sales of SOB have anything to do with the fact that it's an adventure; they have to do with the fact that, regardless of quality or usefulness, people aren't as interested in buying PDFs.
I am glad to hear that Champions Battlegrounds is selling well. Since I have always been in the "More Adventures" camp that is music to my ears and leads me to believe that there is hope that we might see more adventures in the future.

I also agree with you on the pdf issue. HERO System fans have always had a problem with pdf products. The HERO players are not always as openminded as the standard d20/fantasy gamers when it comes to that market. HERO players just do not like pdf products.

Of course you know I have to say it now, but why don't you just publish SoB in paper form? All of the work is done, and all you would really be out now are the printing expenses. Based on the sales of Champions Battlegrounds I would think a few thousand dollars of printing expense might be justified to put an adventure as good as SoB into circulation. The demand for the module is there, just not in pdf format. I would imagine the sales of a printed SoB will be around the same volume as CB. Granted you per unit profit will be lower due to the smaller page count and retail price, but it would still be a potential profit product for you, and far better than having it go nowhere in HERO Plus.

To be honest, I think HERO Games could use a few "cheaper" products on the shelves. Many gamers are having problems keeping up with the books as they currently are, and a few cheaper products might just persuade people to pick something up. Where the fans are putting off buying $30.00 books they might be tempted by an $19.00 book.

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I know that I'd buy Strikeforce in any format :) I used to have the original book, but sadly it was a victim with the rest of my Champs stuff to the great moving gods :(
As far as SoB and PDFs ... personally, I have snagged it because of two reasons: a) I'm not a big fan of adventures and b) the subject doesn't interest me completly. The price issue is an iffy one with me ... as I do purchase PDF books, butu they usually run $5-$7 ... so for $12 it would have to be something I either really needed or something that said WOW to me :) Would I buy a Strikeforce PDF for $12? More than likely ... unless something was poor quality like the design or art.