GADGETS & GEAR -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

As some of you know, in my "copious spare time" I've been plinking away at Gadgets And Gear -- a Champions equipment supplement on the schedule for next year. It's a nice break from all the editing work I'm doing at present.

So, even though the book's release is many, many months away, I thought I might as well start the usual "what do you want to see?" threads. The one I ran for the USPD netted me some extensive powers lists and other great suggestions, so hopefully this thread'll do the same.

To save time and trouble, let me explain what the book is, and is not.

G&G is a book of personal equipment for Champions characters. It covers all sorts of personal gadgets -- weapons, defenses, sensory, movement, you name it. All gadgets have a template, much like the ones in USPD or the FHG, for ease of use. The gadgets depicted include not only gadgets "inspired by" favorite comics gadgets (Cap's shield, Spidey's web-shooters, GL's power ring, etc.), but lots of original stuff as well.

What G&G Will Not Contain, So Please Don't Suggest It
1. Mystic artifacts, enchanted items, etc. (that subject needs its own book)

2. Real-world/mundane weapons and tech (that's something to cover in the Dark Champions line)

3. Vehicles or vehicular equipment (that subject's covered in TUV, the forthcoming HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook, and other supplements).

4. Bases or base equipment (that'll appear in The Ultimate Base).

5. Doomsday devices, Cosmic Cube-like "plot device devices," or the like (we've got enough of those in other books, and/or they don't need writeups).

6. Rules for gadgeteering, gadget creation, or the like (that'll appear in The Ultimate Gadgeteer).

7. Robots or like devices.


So, with those provisos in mind, what would you like to see in G&G?

[Hermit]

You may have already thought of these, here's what I can think of off the top of my head.

While I know you covered it in the 4th Edition Dark Champions, for those new fans, a redo of the swingline/dragging cable you made (ala Batman: tAS) would be great, and was always one of my favorites.

Power Gaunlets of high tech nature, be it electricly charged, or whathave you.

How about comic book variations on the whip? Be it able to move "like a living thing" , the deadly monowhip ("It's only one molecule thick"..also works for super swords) and other goodies.

Jet/Jump boots

And variations and logical (by super hero standards) high tech ways for quick costume changes.

[Lord Liaden]

I was very pleased to read that this book was on the schedule. Andrew Robinson's classic Gadgets! sourcebook was always one of my favorites, and inspired quite a few ideas in my games.

Just from reading your comments here I get a good idea of what you plan to do. I can see that you have the categories of gadgets pretty well covered, and based on USPD and the FH Grimoire I'm sure the various devices will have possible variations included.

Since this is for a role-playing game, I'd expect "Weapons" to have a lot of entries. ;) I would suggest dividing them into "Lethal Weapons" and "Non-Lethal Weapons." Not just by whether or not they're built with Killing Attacks, but whether they're intended to or could seriously injure or kill an opponent (normal or super, by either the type or magnitude of the damage they do), or merely incapacitate them in some way.

I'd also like to see a discussion of "squad-level" gadgets: the kind of singular devices that a whole squad of agent-level characters or team of superheroes or villains might bring to a mission, such as a heavy or specialized weapon or device to protect the whole group. This could also cover an "arsenal" of devices which a hero team may have access to, including items captured from villains. A lot of GMs just assign these based on the needs of a scenario, but others prefer to account for the costs in the equipment loads of the characters, so I'd like to see suggestions for how to divide the cost of these gadgets among several characters, rather than one paying for the whole thing.

Plot uses for gadgets would be helpful, as a general discussion at the beginning or end of each category of gadget, and/or as "plot seeds" with the description of a particularly exotic gadget. Sometimes an interesting gadget can generate ideas for scenarios all by itself. This might also include the tactical uses of certain types of weapons.

[Hugh Neilson]

I probably won't say this very well...

What I DON'T want to see (and don't expect to see either) is a bunch of USPD powers with focuses.

I think that, in large part, Gadgets and Gear and USPD, are very closely related books. The key difference is that everything in G & G will have a focus. I can apply a focus to a USPD power very easily. By the same token, I suspect I will be able to make a lot of powers from G & G personal by removing the focus (eg. Spidey's web shooters vs. natural webspinning). I don't need, for example, "Trick Arrows" if all it does is apply a focus to a batch of USPD attacks to create an archer.

I'm far more interested in the power constructs themselves, stuff that hasn't been done in USPD. Some of the comic book gadgets you cite would be excellent. There are some that get argued all the time (Cap's shield, as you said), so let's see the Hero Guru's take on these. Wonder Woman's lasso comes to mind.

Have to agree with the "cosmic cube" omission. I think I can design a "XXX Point VPP, OAF Cube" myself [there, I just did it!] if I see the need to stat one out. Besides, I think there's a need to differentiate between a book of things a GM may let characters have and a "plot device" ability. If we need a "cosmic cube", I'd rather see it in a scenario where we also get some examples of how to use it. A creative "plot device" gadget would be OK ("Mind Tranfer Machine", perhaps?)

As for mystic devices, well it's pretty easy to change the source of power and voila - it's a mystical Champions item. Again, something we can do ourselves very easily.

So what could be included. Hmmm...

How about a chapter on the ever-popular Utility Belt, with lots of good low point gadgets for inclusion there? This could also be a good opportunity to talk about "GM Permission" items (eg. flash defense goggles or an infrared visor in a **gasp** Multipower **gasp** OAF Utility Belt .

A section with some creative weapons for agents (perhaps falling in the point values of VIPER agent sidearms) would be nice. It's easy to power these up (or down) for use by more (or less) powerful characters, but some creative attacks for those poor agents would be nice, and easlily adopted by a PC looking for something different.

How about some more Elder Worm technology for Slug and all his buddies. [Slug and his buddies ARE still out there somewhere, right?]

Maybe a section on powered armor? Not whole suits, but possible inclusions in that powered suit.

Is it stretching too much to put the "remote controlled robot" under the category of "Gadgets"? I'm recalling the Red Doom character here, or It, the Living Colossus, or even Iron Man's remote controlled systems.

How about a super power dampener (personalized and wide area effect) for those fascinating "let's see how you do WITHOUT your powers" situations.

Assuming this will be a big book, I'd like to see more than just hand-held battery powered devices (if you hadn't noticed).

[JmOz]

This wound up a little rambling, sorry, consider each segment a seperate idea, with no real coherent order :D

I want to double (even though I suggested already in a chat :D) a section on "Miniture Gadgets" , essentialy gadgets ready to be placed in a Utility Belt, I know you do not want to organise the book by points (and I agree with you for the most part) but it would be nice if you chose a certain value as a baseline for this chapter (Say 30 points, as I remember some writer suggesting it in a 4th edition book for UT Belt MP's, now who was that again :)) and did not make any of the basic write ups over it .

I would actualy like to see one or two doomsday devices (I know fat chance), but agree that any more than that would be overkill

A deeper look at the Foci rules, including the expanding to include a Inherent/external catagory (For where the power comes from, so a laser pistol is inherent, but a crystal that focuses the heroes mind powers would be external, PLEASE IF YOU USE THIS COME UP WITH A BETTER NAME FOR IT). Also a couple of paragraphs on when to use Inobvious and Obvious, special interest to when the foci is NOT in use (so if the Hero has a sword hidden in a cane that when sheathed is NOT OBVIOUSLY a sword , but in use is OBVIOUSLY a sword, should it be an OAF or IAF)

A chapter on Super clothes (Power Armor, Costumes, Space suits---Super Hero Style). One word on Power Armor, While some basic suits would be appreciated, I would probably not "Build" a complete suit, but instead have some "Exo-suits" that grant strength and protection, but for the flight they can get a "Jet Pack" and for the weapons systems some "Missile Launchers" etc...

I would like to see a chapter on "Ammunition", again with a eye on that it will most likely be going into a MP. This would be things like Blast Ammunition, Swing Line Ammunition, Net Ammunition, etc... So a Archer will have Blast Arrows, a gun weilder would have Blast Bullets, a person with boomeranges would have "Blastarangs" etc...

Movement orientated Gadgets

Multi Gadgets (multi class gadgets)

Confinement gadgets (Handcuffs and more)

Sensors

weapons, Weapons, ohh yes and WEAPONS (ammunition can be moved into here as the second part of the chapter)

i would like to see some "Filed off serial number gadgets", One that I would really love to see is a "Cold Gun" ala Captain Cold, etc...

Again try not to copy from USPDB (This will be hard as that book is so full of good powers)

Will post as I think of things

[ParitySoul]

Here is a few variations that don't get much play:

1. Bio-devices. Examples being the Guyver suit from the Guyver anime. Great power armor but what happens when it becomes organic? But a section on 'living' devices would be cool. Like alien tech that dribbles into superhero settings from time to time.

2. Robotic companions: Dino-mutt anyone? K-9 from Dr. Who is another example.

3. Giant Robots: A variation on powered armor actually, I know Ult: Vechicals does the technical breakdown but say something an evil scientist uses would be nice.

4. Spy gear : Beyond the utility belt. Computer hacking tools, laser cutter pens, anything that Q might have dreamed up at one time. Super X-ray binocs, grapnel system, THE SUPER CAR!

5. Drugs, Drugs, Drugs! Anti-super drugs, Temp-super drugs, strange alien virus that give psionic powers sold on the market as a headache medicine. Etc.

6. Power amplifiers. Aid to be sure, but some creative versions. Like a helmut that gives people a massive 'creativity' boost...but at the cost of slowly driving them insane.

I'd love to see devices that have real cost to use them too. Radiations, side-effects, mental aberations. Just the fun stuff.

Sure Dr. Omazo's death chair allows you project your will to kill people, but did you know it caused brain cancer in the user? Mwahahaha!

[ParitySoul]

Oh,oh! Missed one:

Rocket Powered Skateboard!

Done.

[Steve Long]

I'm sure the various devices will have possible variations included

They will, never fear. ;) Some of the standard variations include “Strong” and “Weak” versions (built on more or fewer Active Points, or otherwise better or worse than normal); “Realistic” versions (designed to mimic “reality” more closely -- such as applying a Limitation to a Glider Cape that requires the user to use both his hands to control the gadget, or a Force Field Belt that imposed DEX Roll penalties because the field makes it hard to handle objects); “Experimental” versions (which have an Activation Roll or other Limitations reflecting the fact that they’re prototypes, don’t always work properly, or the like); and versions with more or fewer Charges.


Since this is for a role-playing game, I'd expect "Weapons" to have a lot of entries.

Yup. ;) AAMOF, of what I've written so far it's about half weapons. But that's in part because they're easy to think of.


What I DON'T want to see (and don't expect to see either) is a bunch of USPD powers with focuses.

As a basic guideline, I'm 100% with you, Hugh. But there's a problem with this viewpoint: if applied strictly, it eliminates a huge number of potential gadgets (in fact, so many that I probably couldn't write the book). I took pains to make the FHG more than "USPD with Expendable Foci," and it is. I'm taking pains to differentiate USPD and G&G, too, but ultimately there are only so many ways to build certain things and some amount of overlap is inevitable. I'm afraid you're going to have to suffer through a whole bunch of trick arrows and suchlike -- if for no other reason than that if I publish a book of gadgets that has no trick arrows, the fans will (justifiably) be scornful and angry. ;)


Wonder Woman's lasso comes to mind ... How about some more Elder Worm technology for Slug and all his buddies?

These are mystic items, and therefore going to get left out. There'll be a gimmicked-up lasso, though. ;)


A section with some creative weapons for agents

VIPER and UNTIL already cover this territory so thoroughly I'm not going out of my way to emphasize them in G&G. There'll be plenty of weapons and gear agents could use, but they're not specifically designed as "agent gear."


Maybe a section on powered armor? Not whole suits, but possible inclusions in that powered suit.

Already written it. ;) It's got a little series of accompanying tables that let you randomly roll up a powered armor suit, if random rolling is your thing. ;)


Is it stretching too much to put the "remote controlled robot" under the category of "Gadgets"?

Yup, 'fraid so. Time to edit my list above. ;)


A chapter on Super clothes

Already got that -- it's called "Hot Couture." ;)

[ParitySoul]

If no robots, where are they going to get some coverage?

[Crimson Arrow]

Most of mine are weapons from comics, and I bet many are already on the list.

Hi-Tech survival kit (collapsible ladder, Life Support bubble, fire extinguisher, emergency multi-tool).

Blue Beetle's Air Gun (whatever it was he called it), the one that fired compressed air.

Marshal Law's pistol. Fired lots of different types of ammo.

Judge Dredd's Lawgiver (ditto). I know that's more sci-fi, but there's an obvious overlap with Marshal Law's gun.

In fact, I would like to see more examples of trick ammunition. I can't see why it could be presented as that and then you can choose a strong, medium or weak version for your grenade, arrowhead or special bullet, as appropriate. It should include non-damaging options like a wire for sliding down, flare rounds, fire extinguishing bombs, etc.

Sandman's Gas Gun.

Golden Age rocket pack (as per "The Rocketeer" or "King of the Rocket Men").

I am sure some more will come to me.

[death tribble]

Jet Packs or Flight packs in a variety of guises from Jets to wings to helicoptor attachments.

Blasters that fire things other than bullets and lasers so grapnels (as lethal weapons as well); entangles (not major but minor), stuff, flash and entangle (like glue over the eyes); projectiles that do little damage but propel you back at some rate (extra KNB)

Handcuffs and hand to foot restraints

Spring boots

Devices that make you partially invisible or cause attacks to go straight through you (desolid for the latter)

More as I think of it or am inspired by colleagues.

[ParitySoul]

Hell, most the JSA is ripe for gaget ideas. Sandman, Hourman, Dr. Midnight, Starman, etc.

I'd love to see the Star Rod and Belt type items.

Funky powersource, ho!

[Talon]

What I'd like to see:

Continued innovation in the area of easy-to-read summaries of the powers. USPD and FHG made big strides in this area, but there's no reason not to keep moving. In particular, computers and frameworks seem in need of improvement, and I can see both being included in at least a couple writeups.

Listing (or index) by Active points (including variants), so that players can look for VPP or MP slots with ease.

Close attention (as in FHG) to having limitations match special effects. A radio gadget should be useless if the character is hit with a Hearing Flash -- unless it uses neural link technology or something, it should have an appropriate Limitation.

A "bargain basement" section with 1-5 point gadgets for characters with just a few points to spend. (Also known as "how to get radios for everyone after the first session".)

Perfect math so we don't have to check it. :)

[Steve Long]

If no robots, where are they going to get some coverage?

Well, they've already gotten a good bit in the various Star Hero books and the HSB. A detailed examination of the subject will be forthcoming in The Ultimate Automaton, though that's not on the schedule yet.


A radio gadget should be useless if the character is hit with a Hearing Flash -- unless it uses neural link technology or something, it should have an appropriate Limitation.

Well, I may have missed one here or there, but pretty much every radio or like device printed in a 5E book has a Limitation already covering this. ;) But that's a good general suggestion. I think the gadgets I've written up so far do a good job in this department, and the "Realistic" options go even further for those who want "realism." ;)

[Steve Long]

Perfect math so we don't have to check it.

LOL! "A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?" ;)

But really, the problem isn't that the math isn't perfect. The problem is that too many of the fans fuss around and check the math rather than just accepting it as being the One And True Correct Word. :) :) :)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Re USPD:
As a basic guideline, I'm 100% with you, Hugh. But there's a problem with this viewpoint: if applied strictly, it eliminates a huge number of potential gadgets (in fact, so many that I probably couldn't write the book). I took pains to make the FHG more than "USPD with Expendable Foci," and it is. I'm taking pains to differentiate USPD and G&G, too, but ultimately there are only so many ways to build certain things and some amount of overlap is inevitable. I'm afraid you're going to have to suffer through a whole bunch of trick arrows and suchlike -- if for no other reason than that if I publish a book of gadgets that has no trick arrows, the fans will (justifiably) be scornful and angry. ;)

I like JMOz' suggestion on "Ammo", which could be trick arrows, boomerangs or blaster clips.

And I'm sure we'll see some EB's, RKA's, etc., because these are basic attacks. But I also expect NOT to see a "Weapons" chapter where every gadget is "Xd6 EB". For weapons, I'd rather see "Xd6 EB" and then some other special effect specific settings as a multipower.

Part of the problem (and same for USPD) is that, while we can all build an EB, leaving no EB in Fire, Electiric and Sonic powers clearly leaves a gaping hole.

[Hugh Neilson]

OOOH OOOH OOOH

Some weapons that use "Usable as an Attack" in a game-balanced and non-sleazy fashion!

[It must be good for something, right?]

[Talon]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Well, I may have missed one here or there, but pretty much every radio or like device printed in a 5E book has a Limitation already covering this. ;) But that's a good general suggestion. I think the gadgets I've written up so far do a good job in this department, and the "Realistic" options go even further for those who want "realism." ;)

You have done a generally good job with this, which is why I complimented you on it right before making this statement. :) I just wanted to make sure that the standard continued to be high, especially for gadgets which tend to have a little more real-worldliness to them than spells or superpowers.

[Lord Liaden]

I apologise if this has been covered in detail in another Hero book and I missed it, but I think this would be a good venue to discuss variations on Breakable Foci: ways to give them additional quantifiable Defenses representing extra toughness; ways to incorporate a Body stat so that some devices don't completely break down when they take any Body damage (without making them Unbreakable); modifiers for repairing or replacing various Foci based on available resources and Skills.

A more thorough discussion of the drawbacks of Unbreakable Foci would be nice, too, if appropriate. ;)

[JakSpade]

Heh Heh...

"All the 1pt gadgets you can keep down for a dollar!"

I would think that a gadget book should hold information for many types of heroes:

Realistic: Police officer gear (pepper spray, hand cuffs, night sticks, battering ram, gas masks, eye protection, special boots, etc)

Heroic: James Bond or Lara Croft gadgets (flying hats, garrots, boot knives, swing lines, mini lasers, rebreathers, collapsible knives, lock pick tools...)

Superheroic: Jet boots, blaster gauntlets, force field and invisibility suits, special use items (arrows, pills, shuriken, tiny bombs), gasses and drugs, eye gear...)

that's it for now...
Jak

[Tom McCarthy]

Might as well throw down some unpalatable or untenable suggestions:

How about a bit of discourse on the BODY and DEF of gadgets and gear ? While the rules for assigning a DEF and BODY to foci are relatively clear, I keep finding myself in midfight wondering just what it takes to break a given object. (And I of course should recognize the contrary case - Blowtorch in CKC has the DEF of his fuel tank explicitly stated in the text.)
I also wonder if there might be a simpler system or guidelines a GM can use to assign values that have dramatic applicability (like if Blowtorch's tank had DEF equal to campaign DCs + 4 instead of 23, how much more interesting is the fight ?).

How about a paragraph or three on the engineering skills needed to create or fix the gadgets (was it "psionic engineering" in Ultimate Mentalist ?) ?

Obviously, you need to start by grabbing writeups from a number of already published sources, like Nighthawk's gear, and STARGuard's staff, for example.

[Mark Rand]

Hi all,
This book is on my list of books to buy, as is VIPER. I'd like to see bladed weapons, from a simple knife to a lightsaber, or, if you prefer, an energy sword.
Yours,
Mark Rand

[Tom McCarthy]

Now that I think more about it, I might even want an optional detailed gadget building rule set. A way to make a gadget with an arbitrary BODY and DEF (and other defences) and arbitrarily set the points at which it loses its powers or abilities.

Like a suit of light body armour which is very durable, like
Armour (3 rPD, 3 rED), OIF armour
but somehow isn't destroyed by the first hit which does 4 BODY.

I'm thinking it might be some 'Incomplete Character' style riff on Automata or Computers. A character class which defaults to a BODY, DEF, and one or more powers. Inaccessible foci might have powers or skills to make them inaccessible (Security Systems ? Lockpicking ? Clinging ?). Foci which don't lose their powers until destroyed would take the similar Automaton power, and pay correspondingly higher prices for DEF. The gadget would be purchased at a fraction of the total cost (perhaps not 1/5th; some fraction keeping it in line with comparable foci under the current system).

[Steve Long]

I would think that a gadget book should hold information for many types of heroes

I tried to make this clear in my initial post, but I guess I didn't, so let me state it outright:

Gadgets And Gear is a Champions supplement. It's not going to have gear primarily intended for Dark Champions characters, Fantasy Hero characters, Star Hero characters or the like -- just comic book supers-style gadgetry. Of course, you could adapt many of the gadgets to other genres or types of campaigns, but it's not intended as a multi-genre gadget book, any more than STK is. ;)

After all, just trying to think up and prepare game write-ups for a slew of comic book gadgets is work enough -- if I tried to cover all the genres at once, the book would end up being 600 pages long and I'd give myself a mental breakdown creating it! ;)


an optional detailed gadget building rule set

That sort of thing is gonna have to wait for The Ultimate Gadgeteer. I definitely want to create a set of optional rules such as you're describing, but I can't cover it in sufficient detail in G&G, and I don't want to do a halfway job on it.


Thanx for all the suggestions so far, everyone -- keep 'em comin'! These "what do you want to see" topics are always helpful.

[Wormhole]

Some suggestions for the weapons section:

Taser Whip
Taser Gloves
Cryogun
Razor Disc Launcher
Diamond Toothed Chainsaw

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Steve Long
After all, just trying to think up and prepare game write-ups for a slew of comic book gadgets is work enough -- if I tried to cover all the genres at once, the book would end up being 600 pages long and I'd give myself a mental breakdown creating it! ;)



I thought you had already had that? You do know that you really are not an owner of a gaming company, you are a lawyer who had a nervous breakdown...

And your recovery seemed to be going SO Well

Ohh well :D

Another section I want to see is a Psi Gadgets section

[JakSpade]

Any chance there's going to be an Ultimate Doomsday Device sourcebook? :D

Jak

[GreyGuardian]

Probably more appropriate for the ultimate gadgeteer - rules for figuring out foriegn or alien gadgets so they can be used. Rules about invention time. Discussion of the impact of super tech on the "real world". Dealing with professional skills and knowledge skills and how they interact with gadgets. repair and alteration of gadgets.

- actual gadget thingys - items to be used by shrunk or super shrunk characters. time travel devices (cosmic treadmill etc). sword gadgets (like the booby trap in blade's sword in the movie but more stuff). chemical weapons / biological weapons / radiological weapons and the basics on the stuff that is needed for cleanup? Spy satellites. spy stuff. nano machines (and things that can go wrong). a things that can go wrong table of events? medical equipment to use on super types? - ultra strong needles, energy scalpels etc?
Mirror gadgets ala Mirror Master. Cold and Heat guns etc. Encryption stuff for secure data transfer. hologram projectors.

[Crimson Arrow]

ParitySoul has reminded me.

Mr Terrific's T-Spheres. Love to see a write-up of them.

[assault]

Originally posted by JakSpade
Any chance there's going to be an Ultimate Doomsday Device sourcebook? :D

Jak

Wouldn't that be the Ultimate Ultimate Weapon sourcebook? :)

Alan

[BobGreenwade]

Okay, here's my two cents' worth....

First -- and you're probably way ahead of me on this -- go light on any new gadget rules. Despite what others are requesting here, I'm with you in that such things are more appropriate for The Ultimate Gadgeteer. A couple of new aspects of the Focus Limitation would be okay, but the rest can wait until later.

Second, despite the slew of weapons-based suggestions here, I'd really like to see lots of movement devices. Jet-packs, flight-rings, glider-capes, teleportation belts, and others of their kind would be great to see. For that matter, while I know other fans hated them, I rather liked the "panic rings" used by PSI in their original appearance.

And on a similar note (call it 2A), please bend just a little on the "no Vehicles" rule. One or two would be good (though no more than three).

Third, please try to get as many gizmos from existing Champions characters into the book as you can manage.

That's it for now; I'll probably come up with more at a later time. :D

[Dr. Confoundo]

Originally posted by Steve Long
That sort of thing is gonna have to wait for The Ultimate Gadgeteer. I definitely want to create a set of optional rules such as you're describing, but I can't cover it in sufficient detail in G&G, and I don't want to do a halfway job on it.

I'm not so sure I see the reason to have these as two separate books. Once you have a huge list of various gadgets a character can use (in G&G), what are you going to put in Ultimate Gadgeteer? Some rules on how to make them, and a bunch of 'See G&G page x' references?

Don't get me wrong... I love the new direction that you have sent Hero Games. However, I'm a little concerned that you might be contracting the dreaded game company disease of splat-bookitis. Is there really enough material here to justify these being two separate books? Ultimate Vehicle and the Champions specific vehicle you mentioned? An Ultimate Automaton book?

Doc

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Dr. Confoundo
I'm not so sure I see the reason to have these as two separate books. Once you have a huge list of various gadgets a character can use (in G&G), what are you going to put in Ultimate Gadgeteer? Some rules on how to make them, and a bunch of 'See G&G page x' references? The only thing that concerns me about this is the potential of having the proverbial cart before the horse -- in other words, first The Ultimate Gadgeteer for rules on building gadgets, and then a book or two of them (or perhaps as many as four -- one each for superhero, sci-fi, fantasy, and action-adventure) using those rules.

But I fear it's too late to change the schedule at this point. Spacer's Toolkit is already out, and Gadgets & Gear is under way.

Really, the books do very much deserve separate tretment. G&G is to be a book of gadgets centered on the superhero genre, just as STK is a book of gadgets (and, as it happens, Vehicles) centered on the science-fiction genre. TUG would be a book of rules for making gadgets in any genre.

Does that help? :)

[eepjr24]

A rail gun.

Various sensor suites, to include a satellite targeting system.

A couple gag devices? (jokes, not verbal restraining devices, heh)

A paint bomb.

Weather controlling device.

Technology based "Gate" system (teleport, mega, gated, etc)

Nanotech?

A computer virus generator?

Powered armor mine? (deactivates or interferes with armor powers)

Some gadget twists on nets, whips, manacles, etc.

That's it for now.

- Ernie

[Dr. Confoundo]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Does that help? :)

A little, but not much. Then again, I've been in the Hero Games world for a lot longer than my measly threadcount would imply, and I've often seen you put forth ideas on products that seem awfully narrow in scope. Not bad, mind you, just too narrow in scope for me to want.

Doc

[Ghost who Walks]

Teleportation tubes

A freeze/cold Pistol!

A section on gadgets that could be just handed out to flunky thugs might be nice. They would probably all have activation rolls...

So a gadgeteer villain could quickly equip his minions.

[Stray Cat]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Since this is for a role-playing game, I'd expect "Weapons" to have a lot of entries. ;) I would suggest dividing them into "Lethal Weapons" and "Non-Lethal Weapons." Not just by whether or not they're built with Killing Attacks, but whether they're intended to or could seriously injure or kill an opponent (normal or super, by either the type or magnitude of the damage they do), or merely incapacitate them in some way.



What LL said. I'd just to second the idea of the lethal/nonlethal/subdual organization..

Cat

[Steve Long]

Mr Terrific's T-Spheres. Love to see a write-up of them.

Here my lower KS of the DC Universe comes into play. I've never heard of these and have no idea what they are. If someone would describe 'em briefly for me, I'll see what I can do. :)

[Steve Long]

Is there really enough material here to justify these being two separate books? Ultimate Vehicle and the Champions specific vehicle you mentioned?

If I didn't think there was enough material, I wouldn't separate them. But trust me, there's enough material to fill The Ultimate Gadgeteer when its time comes. ;)

The HSVS, just to be clear, is not a Champions-specific vehicle book; that would be far too narrow in scope for a book at this stage of the product lines of the company. It's a book of all sorts of vehicles, usable in just about any genre -- sort of like the HSB, but for vehicles instead of critters and monsters. ;) One of the chapters will focus specifically on "super-vehicles," but there'll be lots of other vehicles in there that would work fine in a Champions game as well.

[Lord Mhoram]

Stuff that I saw come up that I second..

Some nice "usable as attack" gadgets that aren't too cheesy. :-)

A number of sample multpower gadgets (swingling gun, utility belt type things).

A lot of non-combat gadgets. Sensory stuff, a lot of movement gadgets, investigation helping gadgets. Load those on.

I also like the ammo suggetsion to make building multiguns or archers a snap.

[assault]

Originally posted by Lord Mhoram
A number of sample multpower gadgets (swingling gun, utility belt type things).

Yes. This is something I would like, too.

I've been working on a Batman-like character over the last couple of days. The Dark Champions utility belt has a lot of modifiers on its slots that are more suited for that subgenre than for general Champions. Stuff like: must hit an unarmoured location, or range based on strength.

A more general (simpler) utility belt would be nice. It would be handy if there were suggestions on varying the size of it's pool, too. That way, for example, your gas grenades could be more or less powerful, depending on the campaign's limits.

(Batman-like characters really really need nice big ranged attacks. Otherwise they suck and die in higher end games.)

Alan

[Enforcer84]

Offensive Gadgets
Defensive Gadgets
Sensory Gadgets
Movement Gadgets
Multipurpose Gadgets

Combat Armors
Communications Gear
Sensory Gear.
5th Ed really changed the Enhanced senses. I'd like to see several gadgets that explain the subtle nuances and unusual Sensory abilities like
Concealed, Transmit, and Rapid.
I'd like to see a couple of ways to do similar weapons.

Powered armors would be nice (Turtle Armor!) but I suspect there might be an "Ultimate Powered Armor" somewhere down the road.

High Tech Melee weapons.

Magic Seeming Tech?
Since its Champions, perhaps some Champions Specific Weapons? Like What tricks would Binder or Foxbat come up with after fighting the same heroes again and again.

Some ARGENT tech.

[MisterD]

My ideas. Just brain storming

1) Closer look and explanation on limitations and advantages related to foci. (Charges, OAF, OIF..., Activation, ECT)

2) Ammo: broken down to or grouped in Bullets, Arrows, Ect.

3) Utility Bults (MP and VPP versions)

4) Weapo.... Well. that is an automatic given.

5) Computers (Wrist, Battlearmor control computer, Hero-Base computer)

6) Character as computer (Cameras to see. Microphones to hear, speakers to speak, holograms to be seen)

7) Q's toy-chest (ala James Bond)

[McCoy]

Looks like what I really want is the Dark Champions Gadgets. I want off the shelf current tech: cell phones, directional mikes, night vision goggles/cameras, the stuff you can order off the web in RL but have to pay points for in Champions.

[wcw43921]

I like the suggestion of "super-drugs," especially stuff like knock-out darts, temporary stat-boosters, etc.

Don't completely discount real-world tech--I think one of the best resources for anyone running a superhero/modern-world campaign are magazines like Popular Mechanics and Popular Science you'll find all sorts of items that fall into the cutting-edge realm of technology and beyond. And if a particular device or technology is featured in a magazine like those, that means it's actually possible to build something like it, that it doesn't stretch the laws of physics or credibility the way certain bits of comic-book tech have been known to do.

I'd also go through all the back issues of Adventurer's Club and see what gadgets could be updated to 5th Edition.

I don't suppose you're accepting outside submissons for gadgets, are you? :) :) :)

Also, considering all the gadgeteering supervillains--Binder, Laser, Cyclone, Brainchild, etc.--it's a wonder that some bright group of minds at PRIMUS or UNTIL (or VIPER or ARGENT) haven't been able to duplicate their technology for more widespread use. Granted, PRIMUS may not admit that their new multi-function assault rifle was reverse-engineered from Foxbat's ping-pong gun, but they'd be glad to have the technology anyway.

[ParitySoul]

T-Sphere: Small flying remote controlled camera/scanners. Think the spheres from phantasmagoria but make them 'good'. They're a combo of spy camra and micro tools. Makes Mr. Terrific a good tactical leader. Hell he used one to ram someone once. (If I remember.)

[Steve Long]

I don't suppose you're accepting outside submissons for gadgets, are you?

No, 'fraid not. That's far more trouble than it's worth, particularly since I have no way to inform potential contributors about what I've already created.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by ParitySoul
T-Sphere: Small flying remote controlled camera/scanners. Think the spheres from phantasmagoria but make them 'good'. They're a combo of spy camra and micro tools. Makes Mr. Terrific a good tactical leader. Hell he used one to ram someone once. (If I remember.)

I seem to recall them having the ability to make holigrams as well, as you say they have been used for a ramming attack, pick up any of the collections of JSA that have a Black Man with a T on his face and the words "Fair Play" on his jacket for more information

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Lord Mhoram
Some nice "usable as attack" gadgets that aren't too cheesy. :-)


A shrinking ray just pops into my head, for some reason...

[Tom McCarthy]

Some oddball items with oddball powers might be nice.

Blue Beetle's BB gun either had a bright strobe (Flash) or compressed air (knockback only). "Knockback only" has been a bit of a problem in the past, typically winding up with very high AP and lots of limitations.

Trick boomerangs. I haven't seen trick boomerangs published in a while.

Teleport suppression or extradimensional movement suppression is a neat one, and there's a nice writeup in Battlegrounds. For a trickier one, how about the classic attack which doesn't prevent EDM, but scatters the group that's trying to travel together ?

Maybe a writeup illustrating the paralyzing effect of electric current.

Perhaps a writeup of an 'Inobvious until activated' weapon, like a walking stick that becomes a big hammer when struck on the ground.

Deadly squirting flowers, joybuzzers, jack in the boxes.

[Talon]

A paint-marking gun that doesn't use Cosmetic Transform (so that it's not harder to shoot big people). :)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
A paint-marking gun that doesn't use Cosmetic Transform (so that it's not harder to shoot big people). :)

Not to steal Steve's thunder, but wouldn't the "partial effect" structure manage? If he was small, he'd be fully painted, but since he's large, all I got is his rear end.

[Barrier]

Okay Steve, You Asked:

How about cyberware and other cybernetic gear?

Or some of those gadgets from the Saturday Morning Superheroes? (No, not the MMPR. Although for the next Vehicles book...) I mean those of the 60's 70's and 80's. Like Space Ghost's PowerBands, etc.

Or some of the vide variety of gear in Anime? Captain Harlock's sword/blaster, Nagisa Kano's braclet from Iczer One (combination defensive sheld and defensive weapon ), various wepons from Ninja Team Gatchaman/G-Force/BoTP/ER,


--Just my two cents.

[Crimson Arrow]

T-Spheres - Roughly the size of grapefruit.

Mr. Terrific carries 4 or 5 of them, but there are normally three floating around.

They can be ordered to fly to certain places (controls are in Mr. Terrific's costume), so can indeed knock people or things. They were also used to cover Black Canary's, er, modesty once.

They contain cameras which broadcast information back to Mr. Terrific's mask (which contains a HUD). The cameras send images on the visible and infra-red spectra. I wouldn't mind betting they have a starlight or similar function and are probably capable of communicating auditory information.

They can project holograms, including complex images.

They can also make someone invisible, not only to sight, but also to visual and audio sensors. I am not sure but think they can fulfil the latter function without making Mr. Terrific invisible to normal sight. hence he cannot be recorded on video tape, digital cameras, etc. I am not sure if this only works on Mr. Terrific himself. I can't recall seeing it work on others. He might be able to use the images power to do something a little similar.

Knowing DC, they could easily have other functions.

[mattingly]

Not to steal Steve's thunder, but wouldn't the "partial effect" structure manage? If he was small, he'd be fully painted, but since he's large, all I got is his rear end.

That's how I just wrote it up last week, for a heroine who has a gadget pool of survival/sports equipment. 2d6 Cosmetic Transform, Partial Effect. Fits nicely in her 15-point VPP.

[BobGreenwade]

A couple of more thoughts...

I'd really like to have a good selection of gadgets intended for use out of combat. In particular, include some things that can be used in investigation or espionage situations. I'm not talking about real-world technology here, though if you can come up with some superhero-oriented extensions of such technology it would be extremely cool.

And again I'll emphasize the need for more movement gadgets. I don't know how many times as GM I've gotten a cool-looking character, but had to ask, "How does he get to the scene of the action?" (Usually the character ends up hitching a ride with someone else, though one individual actually intended to use taxi cabs and public transportation.) Swing lines, jet-boots, concealable hang gliders, spring-boots... and, of course, the ever-lovin' Rocket Lawnchair. ;)

[Sketchpad]

This was mentioned in another thread and I wasn't sure if it was mentioned here, but I'd like to see the return of Dr. McQuark :) I always loved using this character and he'd make a great tour guide through the book ;)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Sketchpad
This was mentioned in another thread and I wasn't sure if it was mentioned here, but I'd like to see the return of Dr. McQuark :) I always loved using this character and he'd make a great tour guide through the book ;)

I'll second that - putting some of the discussion in the words of a character, rather than a player or GM, makes these nicer reads. Kind of like UNTIL descriptions of superppwers for USPD.

Of course, the function of the book should not be overshadowed, but running commentary from the King of Gadgeteers would be a nice touch for the book.

If McQuark is "unavailable" for whatever reasons, perhaps a new "Master Gadgeteer" could be used, then appear in Ultimate Gadgeteer.

[Tom McCarthy]

UNTIL, Wayland Talos, and Warlord would all seem like good narrators for this book. Tougher to pull off, but fun, would be Foxbat making a wish list of foci for the characters to donate when they buy off the limitations with their XPs.

[Tom McCarthy]

Power suppressing manacles

Hot sleep chambers for Stronghold

A Stronghold cell design or two (suitable for a danger room)

A VPP-based danger room writeup

[mattingly]

Knockout Gas / Chloroform. It's incredibly expensive (under most methods) to build a simple handkerchief that puts the target to sleep after a grab.

Team Gadgets. Lots of examples of team communicators, locators, uniforms, etc.

Traps and security systems. Base-type equipment. Also, rules and samples of Danger Rooms.

Surveillance equipment, including Spidey-tracers.

Rope! :)

[Tom McCarthy]

Mind swapping machine

[BobGreenwade]

Something I almost forgot about, and don't think has been mentioned before...

Medical gear. Life-sustaining chambers, stasis field generators, wound sealants, bioscanners, that sort of thing.

I thought of one other thing yesterday while I was away from the computer, but now I can't recall what it was. If I remember it, I'll post it...

Oh, and I'd strongly recommend dividing the book up by purpose (though I assume you already are doing that). :)

[CraterMaker]

I'd like to see:

A floating orb that can shoot down incoming attacks..

A frictionless bodysuit

"Magnetic" boomerangs or shuriken

Hoverboards (ala Back to the Future)

Psi-static generators

The old but trusted Bag of Marbles, and the new Bag of Exploding Marbles

Limpet mines and triggered devices

Sattelite Lasers controlled by a wrist computer

Inertia-ray guns

Force field projectors

Bolos of various flavors

EMP weapons

A Vibro-cannon

And a jet-staff

-CraterMaker

[Yogzilla]

This might be a bit much to ask, but you did open the floor to requests...

The henshin (transform) belt from the Kamen (Masked) Rider series

Specifically, the most recent series' have the belts doing more than just acting as a focus for the hero's powers. In fact, the current show (Kamen Rider 555 [Faiz]), the Faiz Driver (what the belt is called in that show) is *constantly* being stolen and used by the bad guys.

Of course, there's certainly grounds that this would be a better entry for "The Ultimate Powered Armor"...

-Yogzilla

[JmOz]

Also, I am sure you are planning on douing this anyways but a reminder that in Hero, there are more than one way to make a power, and while this is one way it is not the only way (I prefer my EMP weapons to be based on RKA's not dispells, and I also prefer my Astral Forms to be Multiforms, for instance)

[JmOz]

Ohh a Nuke Warhead would be nice as well (or have we seen one of those in 5th yet?)

[Steve Long]

There are nuclear missile writeups in SH and TUV. Nukes aren't appropriate for G&G in any event because they're not personal equipment... even for supervillains! :)

[JmOz]

Remote controls for vehicles and other goodies

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Steve Long
There are nuclear missile writeups in SH and TUV. Nukes aren't appropriate for G&G in any event because they're not personal equipment... even for supervillains! :) That depends, of course, on the supervillain. (Obviously you've never played in any of my games....) ;)

[Tech]

Already mentioned but I'd like to see (Spidey) Tracers.

Multi-purpose wrist communicators, including triangulating on the person you're speaking to, GPS, etc.

Already mentioned again but a very detailed Shrinking ray. (Ok, they're shrunk. What stats do they have?)

Ice Bullets (melt with no trace)

[talisman]

I'd love to see a write-up for various effects. Gas clouds, for example (they cover a large area and fade after a certain time period). Also, I'd love to see some discussion concerning the unique game concepts that gadgets bring up:
-a table to relate gadget size to OCV modifiers to hit the gadget
-a guidline for how damage to a gadget might effect the gadget's abilities.
-repair timetables for gadget damage
-skill lists and skill roll modifiers to build and repair gadgets.

...and last but not least: GRAPHICS!! Lots and lots of pretty pictures...

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by talisman
...and last but not least: GRAPHICS!! Lots and lots of pretty pictures...

Hear Hear!

Keith "gotta eat!" Curtis

[wcw43921]

You also might want to consider a chapter on how to build gadgets from different comic "ages"--Golden Age gadgets would have a much different look and operating principle than current-age gadgets; just compare early diagrams of Batman's utility belt to today's diagrams, or the original design for Spider-Man's webshooters as opposed to today's design.


Also, gadgets make great plot devices--if you'll pardon the expression. I remember an Adventurer's Club adventure where the PCs had to deal with an influx of autofire laser pistols called "Retaliators" that exploded lethally if used once too often. And of course, there are those gadgeteer-types who neither fight nor commit crime, but sell their works to whomever can pay. I can easily see such a character catering to the "wannabe" crowd--those who believe all you need to fight crime are a rocket pack and a bandolier full of stun grenades, or stickup artists who think a freeze-ray weapon will make them unbeatable. You get the idea.

[Tasha]

Hand-held computing devices- up to and including hand-held AI devices (like Box from StarCops). AIs and computers need more coverage in a book soon.

Tasha :)

[Supreme Serpent]

Originally posted by wcw43921
Also, gadgets make great plot devices--if you'll pardon the expression. I remember an Adventurer's Club adventure where the PCs had to deal with an influx of autofire laser pistols called "Retaliators" that exploded lethally if used once too often. And of course, there are those gadgeteer-types who neither fight nor commit crime, but sell their works to whomever can pay. I can easily see such a character catering to the "wannabe" crowd--those who believe all you need to fight crime are a rocket pack and a bandolier full of stun grenades, or stickup artists who think a freeze-ray weapon will make them unbeatable. You get the idea.

I'll second that. The main focus of the book should be the gadgets themselves, but secondary sections would be good. Briefs on organizations that churn this stuff out, some guy like the Tinkerer in Marvel who makes/repairs foci for villains, etc.

And if it hasn't already been presented in some 5th Ed book already...TURTLE ARMOR!!!! :D :D :D

[Tech]

Originally posted by Tom McCarthy
Hot sleep chambers for Stronghold

I can't recall where at the moment but this was described somewhere already. I think a 4e book.

[JmOz]

Here is one for the "Serial number rubb off" A Mother Box.

If you are not familiar with it ask DW...

[Steve Long]

Placeholder post to indicate to me that I've copied all above relevant suggestions into my notes. Nothing to see here, just a hedge. ;)

[wcw43921]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Nothing to see here, just a hedge. ;)

Omigosh. . .A hedge??!! A hedge??!!


I WASTE IT WITH MY CROSSBOW!!!!!

[Supreme Serpent]

...not like it was a collie or something.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by wcw43921
Omigosh. . .A hedge??!! A hedge??!!


I WASTE IT WITH MY CROSSBOW!!!!! It could be worse. It could have been a gazebo. ;)

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
It could be worse. It could have been a gazebo. ;)

"Gazebo Boy's singular power of transformation proves useless against The Evil Termite!"

[TheQuestionMan]

Bump

[loraxxx]

Originally posted by CraterMaker
I'd like to see:

....Limpet mines and triggered devices....

DAS LIMPET!!--THRUUUUUUUMMMMMMM!!!!

[loraxxx]

Originally posted by JmOz
Remote controls for vehicles and other goodies

like giant, flying robots--CRUSH THEM NOW, GIANT ROBO!!

[megaplayboy]

For agents--disposable power armor/ one shot hero swatters
for villains--"foolproof" escape devices, dehydrated agent pills(just add water!)
for heroes--the definitive superteam communicator/scanner; the basic superhero utility kit(restraints, flares, 50 feet of rope, 2 weeks iron rations--y'know the usual;) )

[pinecone]

I didn't have time to even skim so I may be repeating...but please include a section on premodern/Pulp gadgets maybe just a paragraph of guidlines you know super tech Before silicon chips and atomic energy......

[Space Cadet]

Hermit made mention of high-tech instant change devices in an
earlier post to this topic, and I agree that a gadget like that
would be interesting to see in the Gadgets and Gear book. It'd be especially interesting to see large-scale versions
of such a gadget as well as the "Only affects person wearing it"
versions. The best examples of this kind of superhero hardware
can be found in animated shows such as Science Ninja Team
Gatchaman (a.k.a. Battle of the Planets and, somewhat
more recently, Eagle Riders; the wristbands that the good
guys wore that not only changed their street clothes into their
uniforms, but also transformed their normal-looking vehicles into more advanced versions -- the team leader's propeller-
driven plane became a jet at the instant of tranformation, for
example), and Sonic Soldier Borgman (the combination
wrist communicator/transformation devices worn by the Borg-
men that allowed them to change into their battle armor).

Space Cadet :cool:

[AnotherSkip]

How about ( and I kid you not this _is_ a champions item) Jet Earrings.

some notes on Disguising the ideas source with different SFX (ie instead of "spring boots" how about air pressure boots that have to be pumped up before use? The do the same thing just slightly differently.


Things that protect the character from his own powers.

Mr Fantastic's Unstable Molecule clothing (it is what everyone in the Marvel universe wears so their power usage doesnt leave them nekkid.)

Rather than a section on Arrows, then on Bullets then on boomerangs then on yo-yo/s, then on Shuriken, etc... just have notes as to what you need to do to convert from the main list of Arrows to bullets to bommerangs etc...

Writeups for :thingamabobits, whatchamacallits, doohickies, etc...
Champions level of course!

OOooooh how about Instant change items ( not just swordcanes anymore!)

Bladed Yo-Yo's,

Skill roll modifier items

Ablative working with the Breaking items rules. After all if an item gets broken every time it's defense gets breached then Ablative seems to be an advantage..... it keeps on going and going and going.


there was a thread (that you have probably allready seen) that had the Ultimate Swiss Army Knife ( I being an american bought the Ultimate Leatherman). You might want to check that out and see if there is anything you can use.

[FenrisUlf]

We've seen a lot of suggestions here for 'hard' tech -- what about ideas for gadgets made with the life sciences? One of the characters we've got in our group is a doctor, and a list of tools and drugs would be a BIG help.

And, of course, the ever-popular supermutant virii, genetic/chemical ways of graning or removing superpowers, etc. The sort of stuff Teleios would use to create posthumans or the like.