Advantaged HAs, STR, Martial Arts, and max dice

[Silbeg]

Ok, I know this has been visited many a time, but I am still a bit confused by the interaction of martial arts, HAs with advantages, and Strength damage added to that.

Ok, I know that if you have an advantage on your HA, if your STR is less than or equal to the DC of the HA, you can add that STR to the HA without paying for the advantage (the HA exception clause, as our group defines it).

I also know that Martial Arts DCs are added with the advantages intact, as well.

The question is, do the MA DCs add to the base attack (the HA), or to the STR. In other words, do using the HAs consitute an "unarmed attack", or a weapon.

See the following example:

Reptile has 20 STR, and 4D6 HAs w/ Armor Piercing advantage (claws). He also has Thai Kickboxing, which includes the Fast Strike manuever (+2 OCV, +0 DCV, STR+2d6).

Does he get:
1) 10d6 AP (8d6 w/ STR, plus 2d6 from the manuever)
or
2) 8d6 AP (8d6 w/ STR, the additional +2d6 is lost as this more than doubles the base attack).
Or is there a case 3?

Also, does he need to purchase a weapons kata (claws/natural weapons) in order to use the style with the natural weapons?

Thanks for the help!!!

Silbeg...

[Steve Long]

I think a lot of the confusion here results from a fundamental issue: does the HA add to the character’s STR, or does the character’s STR add to the HA? The text on 5E 119 clearly states the HA adds to STR. The text on 5E 272 phrases things as if the STR adds to the HA to make the rule clear, but the truth is the HA adds to STR, not the other way around.

In this case, both the HA dice and the Martial Maneuver dice are adding to the character’s STR. Technically this limits the character to 8d6 AP damage, but as discussed in the Rules FAQ and elsewhere, many GMs waive the “doubling” rule when applying Martial Maneuvers and just let them add straight up. In that case the character does 10d6 AP.

As a default rule, a character with natural weapons like claws or fangs needs a Weapon Element to use them with his Martial Maneuvers — but as always, the GM can grant an exception if he thinks that would be appropriate.