Stats for a Forklift

[Balabanto]

Sigh. I figured the stats for everything I needed in terms of construction vehicles would be in 6e2, but apparently no construction vehicles are listed. Does anyone have a link to one, or am I building a forklift tomorrow?

[prestidigitator]

I'd probably go with....

Size 0 (2m^3)
Str 35 (~3 tonnes)
Dex 8
OCV 3
DCV 3
Speed 2
PD 6 (Doesn't Protect Passengers (-1/2); 9 active, 6-3=3 real)
ED 6 (Doesn't Protect Passengers (-1/2); 9 active, 6-3=3 real)
Body 10
Ground Movement 12m (x2 NCM)

Total Points: 27

Certain types might have more Str (very heavy forklifts can apparently lift more like 50 tons, vs. the 1-5 tons of typical models) or protect the passengers (e.g. explosion proof models).

[Balabanto]

I think that the lift might need telekinesis rather than a high STR score. This is why I'm asking.

[Greywind]

Why TK?

You can also apply Stretching for a Reach Truck.

[Hyper-Man]

here's an older related thread:
attack of the construction equipment (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/69845-attack-of-the-construction-equipment?highlight=vehicle)

[Rapier]

Sometimes for stuff like this I usually tend to lean towards "as much as it needs to do." I basically let dramatic license just take over. However, if said forklift is going to be integral to the game and you can't get around statting it up, I believe 20 STR and 15m of movement, SPD 2 should just about do it.

[dmjalund]

Id give the Forklift extra limbs (1, limited) to indicate it can lift things in a way regular vehicles can't

[Escafarc]

I could see making the forks a Killing Attack.

[Fearghus]

Sometimes for stuff like this I usually tend to lean towards "as much as it needs to do." I basically let dramatic license just take over. However, if said forklift is going to be integral to the game and you can't get around statting it up, I believe 20 STR and 15m of movement, SPD 2 should just about do it.

Well said... Is it really necessary to put stats to everything? I guess if you actually build it then you know for certain what the vehicle is capable of, but the bottom line is unless you are planning on it being a recurring vehicle in your game let it do what needs to be done for the story and move on. Now if your hero is Construction Guy! and he drives a super powered fork lift then by all means build stats for it. but if the bad guy wants to use a fork lift to drop a heavy box on the heroes then just say a fork lift can do that.

[dmjalund]

IMHO Making stats is just a way of putting thought to how the vehicle will interact. Reducing the requirement of the GM to make arbitrary on-the-fly decisions during game time. No real need to work out how many points the vehicle is made of, but thinking about how much STR might be required to stop its forward motion, or destroy it, how fast it can move, how sharply it can turn is good to have before hand.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Something to keep in mind: most forklifts will have several levels of increased mass. In order keep from tipping over when they lift a couple of tons with their front-mounted forks, they have a huge counterweight in the back. I've seen 'lifts no bigger than size 2 that weighed almost 4 tons.

[bigbywolfe]

Sometimes for stuff like this I usually tend to lean towards "as much as it needs to do." I basically let dramatic license just take over. However, if said forklift is going to be integral to the game and you can't get around statting it up, I believe 20 STR and 15m of movement, SPD 2 should just about do it.
20 seems really low unless it's one of those little electric numbers or one of the smaller propane run ones. We have pretty small forklift for flooring and that's about a 24 or 25. We regularly move pallets with with over 1,000 lbs. and rolls of carpet, that while usually not that heavy, stick out 12-15ft. which drastically effects the pressure on the machine. I know we've had carpet rolls over 1,000 lbs. and granite counter tiles that were over a ton (though we don't risk raising the mast more than a few feet once we get to those weights). My point is, while I've seen smaller forklifts, any thing that can be run outside or used in any "heavy duty" industry is going to be around 25 STR, give or take a point or two, and large2 material handling devices closer to 30 or more.

[prestidigitator]

Something to keep in mind: most forklifts will have several levels of increased mass. In order keep from tipping over when they lift a couple of tons with their front-mounted forks, they have a huge counterweight in the back. I've seen 'lifts no bigger than size 2 that weighed almost 4 tons.

Good point. Which, in 6E, really just becomes some extra KBR on top of the Str. Probably not enough of a disadvantage to merit a Complication for the vehicle.

[IndianaJoe3]

PD 6 (Doesn't Protect Passengers (-1/2); 9 active, 6-3=3 real)
ED 6 (Doesn't Protect Passengers (-1/2); 9 active, 6-3=3 real)

I disagree with the part about the PD not protecting the operator. Most lift trucks these days have a roof over the operator's head in case something falls off what's being lifted.

[bigbywolfe]

I disagree with the part about the PD not protecting the operator. Most lift trucks these days have a roof over the operator's head in case something falls off what's being lifted.
Perhaps change it to Doesn't protect from attacks aimed at Passengers (since most are open on all four sides) and change it to a -1/4 Limitation?

[IndianaJoe3]

Perhaps change it to Doesn't protect from attacks aimed at Passengers (since most are open on all four sides) and change it to a -1/4 Limitation?

Limited Coverage (only from Above) would be a -1.

[bigbywolfe]

That's a bigger discount than the "Doesn't Protect Driver" at all is, which seems...odd in this situation.

[Tasha]

Ok according to Hyster's Website their Electric and Propane small lifts can lift 3000lbs - 4000lbs (1360kg - 1814kg) or approx Str 28- Str 32
They can travel at a rate of around 10mph which is about 4.5m per second or around 26m per phase (assuming the lift has spd 2) or around 18m per phase if spd 3
The roll cages on a forklift is incredibly thick steel for the head so I would give it like def 16 or so which covers the top and front top.
It can lift a load to a height of 3m so 2" Stretching straight up only

http://www.hyster.com/americas/en-us/products/electriccounterbalanced/j30-40xnt.htmx
http://www.hyster.com/Americas/SiteCollectionDocuments/Products/J30-40XN-XNT-BTG.pdf
http://www.hyster.com/americas/en-us/products/internalcombustioncushiontire/s30-35ft,s40fts.htmx
http://www.hyster.com/Americas/SiteCollectionDocuments/Products/S30-40FTS_TG.pdf

BTW the Electric lift weighs 4000kg for the base model. Lifts of higher capacity weigh more due to their increased counterbalance weight.

Also all forklifts are rearwheel turning vehicles so IMHO it should require it's own Transport familiarity. When I used to train newbies on these it became crystal clear that one cannot easily get on a forklift and drive it proficiently without a period of training.

Also the forks should be a Killing attack. There have been people who have been killed by being accidentally pierced by the fork on a lift.

Like in all things Google is your friend and it's better to not pull stats out of your head :D
Tasha

PS I used to drive one very similar to the models that I posted.

[Tasha]

Sigh. I figured the stats for everything I needed in terms of construction vehicles would be in 6e2, but apparently no construction vehicles are listed. Does anyone have a link to one, or am I building a forklift tomorrow?

I can't imagine needing one of these stated up beyond Body/Def and total weight. These really go about as fast as a normal person running flat out (Slightly faster), and can lift about a ton and a half of stuff. Seems like a waste of time to me, but enjoy the Real world stats above.

Tasha

[dmjalund]

That's a bigger discount than the "Doesn't Protect Driver" at all is, which seems...odd in this situation.you should have to buy defense that doesn't protect passengers (protects vehicle) AND defense that protects the passengers from above

[Balabanto]

Id give the Forklift extra limbs (1, limited) to indicate it can lift things in a way regular vehicles can't

There is if you're putting it in a published adventure.

[bigbywolfe]

you should have to buy defense that doesn't protect passengers (protects vehicle) AND defense that protects the passengers from above
Gotchya.

[IndianaJoe3]

They can travel at a rate of around 10mph which is about 4.5m per second or around 26m per phase (assuming the lift has spd 2) or around 18m per phase if spd 3

You might even give it SPD 1. They're not designed to handle.


The roll cages on a forklift is incredibly thick steel for the head so I would give it like def 16 or so which covers the top and front top.16 PD is bank-vault level. 7-9 sounds more reasonable.


It can lift a load to a height of 3m so 2" Stretching straight up onlyThat depends on the model. I'm pretty sure the lift truck at work can extend to 6m or so.


Also all forklifts are rearwheel turning vehicles so IMHO it should require it's own Transport familiarity. When I used to train newbies on these it became crystal clear that one cannot easily get on a forklift and drive it proficiently without a period of training.Yeah, definitely a 1-point TF.


Also the forks should be a Killing attack. There have been people who have been killed by being accidentally pierced by the fork on a lift.Not every lift truck has a fork. At work there is a truck with a clamp that we use for moving rolls of paper around.

[Tasha]

You might even give it SPD 1. They're not designed to handle.

16 PD is bank-vault level. 7-9 sounds more reasonable.

That depends on the model. I'm pretty sure the lift truck at work can extend to 6m or so.

Yeah, definitely a 1-point TF.

Not every lift truck has a fork. At work there is a truck with a clamp that we use for moving rolls of paper around.

I like keeping it at spd 2 I am pretty sure that one could reasonably turn it more than once every 12 seconds.

I was just recommending armor that is heavier than platemail, and it does need to be strong enough to resist a 3000-4000 kg drop which is what the upper armor is supposed to be rated for. (ie if you messup and drop your lift's payload on the top of the vehicle. You are supposed to be able to survive it). 16 is probably excessive

I was just basing it on Hyster's basic Forklift models. There is another lift that is based on the electric forklift model that can reach forward. I forgot about the ones with a clamp, I worked at a place that printed ad inserts. Though I suspect that Bala was looking for the kind of lift one would encounter in your average Warehouse.

[Lord Liaden]

Here are raw Fourth Edition stats for a Small and Medium Forklift that were published in the Corporations sourcebook:

Vehicle>Size>DCV>Mass (KB)>STR>DEF>BODY>DEX>SPD>MOVE>MAX>Notes
Small forklift>1.6x.8>-1>400 (-2)>20>3>12>10>2>12x4>96
Medium forklift>2.5x1.25>-2>1.6T (-4)>30>4>14>10>2>20x4>160

[Teflon Billy]

I would start with the stats for a light truck and add the rated mass for the max lift to the overall weight with 1 limited extra limb that has the necessary strength of the max lift.

Military forklifts can move faster than 10mph, I know the M448 10,000lbs Forklift can get up to 20+mph, not sure of the M443 4k forklift but 10mph seems a little low.

TB

[Tasha]

I would start with the stats for a light truck and add the rated mass for the max lift to the overall weight with 1 limited extra limb that has the necessary strength of the max lift.

Military forklifts can move faster than 10mph, I know the M448 10,000lbs Forklift can get up to 20+mph, not sure of the M443 4k forklift but 10mph seems a little low.

TB

My experience with mid weight forklifts suggest that they were faster was well. but looking on Hyster's website the difference is between 10mph and 13mph which makes sense given that it would be easy to roll most forklifts in a quickturn at any speed beyond running speed. Also travelling quickly increases the danger to the load by quite a bit. Also I think that because you are open and so high up on a forklift that any speed feels much faster than it is really travelling.

The Volvo BM-4400 is based on the same design as their construction loader and in 4th gear can reach 24mph and can lift a max of 4700kg. (the military version is designated L-90) Though this Forklift isn't really one that is suitable for warehouse use. It's like one that you would find on a construction site or in a scrapyard.
http://www.volvo.com/constructionequipment/corporate/en-gb/AboutUs/history/products/wheel+loaders/Volvo+BM/Volvo+BM+4400.htm

LOL thanks to you guys, I find myself knowing about a ton of weird seemingly unrelated topics. From Chemical Warfare to Lift trucks to goddess knows what... :P

[Balabanto]

Here are raw Fourth Edition stats for a Small and Medium Forklift that were published in the Corporations sourcebook:

Vehicle>Size>DCV>Mass (KB)>STR>DEF>BODY>DEX>SPD>MOVE>MAX>Notes
Small forklift>1.6x.8>-1>400 (-2)>20>3>12>10>2>12x4>96
Medium forklift>2.5x1.25>-2>1.6T (-4)>30>4>14>10>2>20x4>160

Thank you. This is highly appreciated. I'll figure out how I want to do the lifty stuff on this end.

[prestidigitator]

Well, a motorcycle's defenses would protect the rider if attacked from underneath as well, but it's suggested that a motorcycle's defenses take the limitation that they don't protect the passengers. I suppose decreasing it slightly or adding another defense with a small activation roll would work. Or just let the GM deal with the corner cases. Either way.

I chose the PD/ED based on about the medium level of machinery on the object chart. More? Perhaps.

Don't know about a killing attack. Maybe some extra HA or separate Str for attacking, but really the issue is the mass being driven into you, not something incredibly sharp. I mean, someone strong enough could probably impale you with a spoon, but most people don't write up a spoon as a KA.... ;)

[Tasha]

Well, a motorcycle's defenses would protect the rider if attacked from underneath as well, but it's suggested that a motorcycle's defenses take the limitation that they don't protect the passengers. I suppose decreasing it slightly or adding another defense with a small activation roll would work. Or just let the GM deal with the corner cases. Either way.

I chose the PD/ED based on about the medium level of machinery on the object chart. More? Perhaps.

Don't know about a killing attack. Maybe some extra HA or separate Str for attacking, but really the issue is the mass being driven into you, not something incredibly sharp. I mean, someone strong enough could probably impale you with a spoon, but most people don't write up a spoon as a KA.... ;)

All warehouse forklifts have attached to their rollcages, a thick piece of thick steel plate that protects the driver from objects falling from above and slightly to the front. From the bottom most forklifts are formed from even heavier gauge steel plate that also acts as a counterbalance to the loads the forklift is expected to lift. Granted, from the rear, and sides there is 0 protection for the driver, the front's lift mechanism should give some slight coverage. Also on propane powered lifts there's that volatile propane tank that sits right behind the driver. It could armor the driver from some hits, but the tank should be pretty easy to pierce and propane gas is very flammable.

[Tasha]

Here are raw Fourth Edition stats for a Small and Medium Forklift that were published in the Corporations sourcebook:

Vehicle>Size>DCV>Mass (KB)>STR>DEF>BODY>DEX>SPD>MOVE>MAX>Notes
Small forklift>1.6x.8>-1>400 (-2)>20>3>12>10>2>12x4>96
Medium forklift>2.5x1.25>-2>1.6T (-4)>30>4>14>10>2>20x4>160

I know that these are official writeups, but honestly even the lightest forklift can easily lift 800kg and remember the stats from the manufacturer's website said that the trucks could lift up to 1300kg(1400kg for the heavier duty small forklift)

[Balabanto]

That's why I'm going to build the lift with telekinesis and a slightly lower STR score, Tasha. Sadly, it's also going to have unified power and the killing attack, but I think that's a better way of designing it.

[Greywind]

All warehouse forklifts have attached to their rollcages, a thick piece of thick steel plate that protects the driver from objects falling from above and slightly to the front. From the bottom most forklifts are formed from even heavier gauge steel plate that also acts as a counterbalance to the loads the forklift is expected to lift. Granted, from the rear, and sides there is 0 protection for the driver, the front's lift mechanism should give some slight coverage. Also on propane powered lifts there's that volatile propane tank that sits right behind the driver. It could armor the driver from some hits, but the tank should be pretty easy to pierce and propane gas is very flammable.You could also simulate the top with "doesn't protect from small objects" as the top is usually a screen or grate.

[IndianaJoe3]

I was just recommending armor that is heavier than platemail, and it does need to be strong enough to resist a 3000-4000 kg drop which is what the upper armor is supposed to be rated for. (ie if you messup and drop your lift's payload on the top of the vehicle. You are supposed to be able to survive it). 16 is probably excessive.

The more I think about it, the more interesting this gets. I think that above a certain level of damage, the safety cage will start to collapse (the lift will take BODY), but the operator will not be injured. How should a crumple zone like this be modeled?

[Tasha]

You could also simulate the top with "doesn't protect from small objects" as the top is usually a screen or grate.

Only the front is a screen (at least on the Hyster models I used to drive) about a foot of the front steel is perforated with holes that allow the operator to see the load when you have the boom at it's highest. Behind that is whole 1/4" steel plate that extends to where the back of the lift starts.

[Tasha]

Honestly I would go with Strength(Only for lifting) and Stretching +3m(only to lift and drop in the machines front facing)which should be worth at least a -1 or better on the strength. I guess one probably should buy Extralimb Forks so that the truck can have the ability to lift an object. TK is just too ranged and feels wrong for this. With the Stretching you can clearly define how high the lift boom can go. BTW I am assuming that lifting something to a height of 2m is part of having strength (Lifting something over your head)

[Greywind]

3575835759

These are what I've driven.

[Tasha]

3575835759

These are what I've driven.

I have driven the 20yr old versions of the forklifts I posted the manufacturer's specs for. Which are Hyster's small Electric and Propane models. I was really glad when my employer got rid of the electric lift. It was nice and all, but the propane lift was better in every way.

[prestidigitator]

I don't think either TK or a limitation on Str is required. It seems like by default a Vehicle can only use its Str for carrying capacity; the implication seems to be that you may have to buy it separate Str to do things like attack with. See 6E2/C&A p. 186.