Big Honking Sword

[Teflon Billy]

Ok, I've been puttering along on doing a full Old WoD Vampire Conversion, and by full I mean all Clan Books (old and revised), all Thaumaturgy Paths, and even Advanced Disciplines (6 dots and higher.)

But during my contemplations, I was thinking about weapons for the stupendously strong (Strength 7+ & Potence 7+)

I was wondering what would the stats be on a 150-200lbs sword be?

I'd make it be about 3-4' long, made from something heavy but tough (maybe 3-4 barbel bars welded together) that comes to a moderate splitting maul edge (dull for normal cutting purposes but when propelled by someone with a STR 50+, an edge doesn't matter.)

What would the STR Min be for a sword (normal length, hand grib (let's go with Hand and a Half) and Base Damage be?

I realize a very great deal of the items damage ability will come from the added HtH STR of the user.

I basically want a sword that cuts through telephone poles, engine blocks, etc...

Any help from the more experience will be most appreciated!

TB

[IndianaJoe3]

As a point of reference, the highest-damage blade in HSMA is the tetsu-to, and it's a 2.5d6 HKA. You could make your BHS a 4d6 HKA with a STR Min of 20.

[Teflon Billy]

As a point of reference, the highest-damage blade in HSMA is the tetsu-to, and it's a 2.5d6 HKA. You could make your BHS a 4d6 HKA with a STR Min of 20.The sword weighs at least 120lbs, I'm thinking of a STR Min of around 40 maybe even 50.

That's to wield it effectively as a sword and not just a sharp club, not to just lift it.
TB

[IndianaJoe3]

Making the assumption that a blade requires lifting capacity equal to 100x it's mass*, a character would need to be able to lift 5000kg to wield a 50kg sword. That works out to a STR Min of 38 or 39. A 100kg blade would have a STR Min 5 higher.

*About right for a katana, and probably close enough for many other blades.

[Michael Hopcroft]

And to make a big honking sword, give it a Blast with the Sonic side effect. When it "honks", it kill people! :)

You can buy the sword as part of the character with the caveat that ONLY the original carrier can even lift the thing. Thus whenever anyone tries to pick up this massive sword all they get is a hernia, while the original character can wield it with the deftness of a dagger. All this requires you to do is put a limitation on the power the sword represents that nobody else can even begin to lift the thing (meaning among other things that it's useless as a treasure, and that you can't give it to anyone else if you're too injured to fight).

[Chimera 12]

You can buy the sword as part of the character with the caveat that ONLY the original carrier can even lift the thing. Thus whenever anyone tries to pick up this massive sword all they get is a hernia, while the original character can wield it with the deftness of a dagger. All this requires you to do is put a limitation on the power the sword represents that nobody else can even begin to lift the thing (meaning among other things that it's useless as a treasure, and that you can't give it to anyone else if you're too injured to fight).

That's not really an extra Limitation. That's just defining the sword as a Personal Focus rather than a Universal one.

(It also doesn't seem to be what the original poster is looking for...but that's another topic. :))

[Lawnmower Boy]

Okay, now that I have a number to work with, I can go to industry: according to this random website (http://www.dgentile.com/en/overview/54-the-40-ton-hydraulic-forging-press.html), a 40 ton forging press will do the work of a 75--100kg power hammer, which I'm just going to pretend I know is equivalent to a person wielding a 100kg sword. There's a nice demonstration video, although you might want to turn your speakers off if you have a low tolerance for cheese.

At a glance, I would say that a sword blade swung with this force should have no
problem sheering 30cm or more of (presumably) 1000 degree Celsius steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging#Automatic_hot_forging). Hot steel has significantly less tensile strength and hardness than cold. I found this little chart (http://web.archive.org/web/20030818132750/http://www.corusconstruction.com/fire/fr006.htm)easily enough once I thought of looking in the right place --thanks, Truthers. It turns out that you're good for something, after all.

It looks like hot steel at forging temperature only has about one twentieth of the strength of cold steel. so 15mm? This chart here (http://www.panzerworld.net/armourpenetration)suggests that this is in the right range of penetration for a World War II-era 20mm AP round. 6ed doesn't give a damage for the 20mm round, but the listed round weight is 3 times that of the .50 cal (148g versus 48). The .50 is listed in 6ed at 3d6K. That should be roughly two doublings in effect, as KE and momentum both scale linearly, and maps closely enough onto 3 1/2d6 Killing.

That admittedly seems low. Maybe I'm having granularity problems, or maybe someone else can steer the numbers in a different direction. But there you go.

[Ice9]

The sword weighs at least 120lbs, I'm thinking of a STR Min of around 40 maybe even 50.With a Strength minimum that high, even very high strength characters would generally be better off with a lighter weapon. If a tetsu-to is a 2.5d6 KA, then that maxes out at 5d6. Meaning that a 4d6 / Str Min 50 sword isn't even better until you have 70+ Strength.

How high a Strength would you say 7 dots corresponds to? IIRC, one is weak, two is average, so if it scales linearly then seven would be ~35 Strength. Of course if there's a lifting table, that would be a better guideline.

[Teflon Billy]

With a Strength minimum that high, even very high strength characters would generally be better off with a lighter weapon. If a tetsu-to is a 2.5d6 KA, then that maxes out at 5d6. Meaning that a 4d6 / Str Min 50 sword isn't even better until you have 70+ Strength.

How high a Strength would you say 7 dots corresponds to? IIRC, one is weak, two is average, so if it scales linearly then seven would be ~35 Strength. Of course if there's a lifting table, that would be a better guideline.I don't think it was linear, but assuming it was:

STR ***** (5) was Max Human Capable which in Hero terms means STR 30, so 6 Hero STR per dot of OWoD STR. Potence was a completely different power on top of raw strength but lets assume that it was the same as dots in STR, then a STR ***** ** (7) and Potence ***** ** (7) would be a Hero STR 84.

And why are we tying the sword's base damage to one single sword write up, especially for a sword that amounted to nothing more than 4lbs of steel?

I specifically posted this thread to get ideas on a Sword designed for extremely high strength characters. Why would a lighter weapon be better, if a 70 STR character was swinging around a normal katana, it'd snap like a twig.

I was thinking at least 6d6 KA if not higher, it's 150lbs of sharpened steel, being swung at high speed, it's going to hurt.

TB

[megaplayboy]

Well, if 8x mass = +3 DC K, I'd guess offhand that 3d+1, with a STR min of about 35 or 40 sounds about right. A 20+ STR will let you wield a pretty heavy weapon, around 10-15 pounds. If the character has a 50 STR, a martial art adding +2 DC, and some levels adding another +2 DC, he can do about 5d+1 K with it, which is fairly impressive(an average roll would kill a normal human instantly, and slice a small car in half.)

[AnotherSkip]

I reacall that at the local renfair one of the smiths had a 700 times Foldedd katana that he could cleave through stumps and engine blocks.....

he had to resharpen after every stunt like that but still he is reasonably a mortal....

[Lawnmower Boy]

Or, more likely, you were played by this guy. "Folding" is not a metallurgical miracle, and the same properties that make katanas excellent cavalry sabres make them bad choices for this kind of work. Sharpness comes with brittleness.

I'm also not seeing the problem with putting this weapon in the 3-4d6 range. Valak the World Ravager's cosmic halberd is only a 4d6 KA after all (AP x2, admittedly. I can see a rationale for throwing an AP level on your sword, which would bring into the kill-a-dragon-with-a-single-blow range.

[Susano]

Ok, I've been puttering along on doing a full Old WoD Vampire Conversion, and by full I mean all Clan Books (old and revised), all Thaumaturgy Paths, and even Advanced Disciplines (6 dots and higher.)

But during my contemplations, I was thinking about weapons for the stupendously strong (Strength 7+ & Potence 7+)

I was wondering what would the stats be on a 150-200lbs sword be?

Pshaw.... take a look at Weapons of the Gods some times... they mention 10,000 lbs swords!

Actually, if a 12 STR lets you swing a 3.5 lbs broad sword... and 12 STR lifts (at max) 132 kg, that's 291 lbs divided by 3.5 equals 111. So to swing your 200lb sword you need 200 x 111 = 22,200 lbs lift. Or 10070 kg. Or around a 43 STR.