d20 Mecha

[Polaris]

Greetings,

For those that don't know, Guardians of Order has been working on a book titled d20 Mecha for some time. They gave a copy of the manuscript to a company called Dream Pod 9 (DP9) so that DP9 could use the rules to make up mecha from DP9's various storylines.

The plan was that they would both release their respective books (GoO with d20 mecha, and DP9 with d20 Mecha Compendium) at roughly the same time.

Well, GoO ran into a series of delays... and, DP9's patience ran out. The d20 Mecha Compendium was released this past spring (when both were going to be released, prior to GoO's various delays--which were caused by such things as a death in the family of one of the artists, priority being placed on getting a core book of theirs out, etc).

After GoO's delays continued, it was announced that GoO is apparently going to do some alterations to the rules (I am unsure if this will cause DP9's product to no longer be entirely consistent with GoO's rulebook).

DP9 has recently announced that on October 10, they are going to ship a new book: d20 Mecha Compendium--Deluxe Edition. This edition will include OGL rules from the D20 MECHA manuscript that GoO gave them at the beginning.

Here is my question (I am not looking for a "by the law" answer, as much as your own judgment, and if this sort of thing would affect your decision to buy either book): Should DP9 do this? Why or why not?

Needless to say, GoO is not very happy about it (the President over there, Jeff, commented that they had 'warned' DP9 about doing something like this, and that he "hopes" it doesn't "blow up in their faces").

I am just curious as to any thoughts people might have about this.

Being from academia, I am of the view that what DP9 is doing is unethical. I can understand their frustration with GoO for all the delays (and having their sourcebook out on the market without a rule book, and then learning that their sourcebook may not be entirely legal under any rule changes that GoO decided to do after giving them the original manuscript). In academia, you should be credited with your ideas whenever possible ("Ideas are incestuous", it is nearly impossible to know the true originator of any idea, as they are combined with the ideas of others, added upon, etc). d20 Mecha is the work of Guardians of Order, and they should be given the opportunity to profit from it.

Any thoughts....?

Polaris

[Pattern Ghost]

If I understand this, DP9 and GoO had an agreement to publish two books concurrently. Then GoO delayed producing their book. Now, I'd say at this point that if GoO had agreed to a firm deadline, and had failed to deliver within a reasonable timeframe, then DP9 is entitled to print their own book, b/c GoO would have broken their part of the deal. Without a firm date set (which would be stupid in this type of agreement), I'd be more inclined to think that DP9 should have just dealt with the delays.

Now, the second part (if I understand correctly) bothers me. Apparently, DP9's book requires the rules in GoO's book to be usable. If GoO dropped the ball on a firm publication date, this would put more of an onus on GoO to deliver, and DP9 might have a case to sue them for damages for disrupting their production schedule, however, under no circumstances does DP9 get to assume the right to publish GoO's material. If DP9 was stupid enough to print a book that relies on another company's delayed product to be usable, that's their problem. If they re-release it (if I got the timeline right) with GoO's material to compensate for their own stupidity, they are thieves. The only way I can see this action using GoO's material is if there is a clear contractual agreement allowing the use of said material. Lacking that, DP9 has acted both stupidly and unethically.

A better course of action would have been to offer to print some of the material from GoO's manuscript along with DP9's book for a share of the profits, and with editorial approval from GoO. Not enough to preclude GoO from later publishing a book of their own, but enough for customers to use the DP9 product. If GoO had refused such an offer, then DP9 would only have the recourse of suing for breach of contract for missing set deadlines (if deadlines were set). Simply taking the material and publishing it is an unethical solution.

As to whether it'd affect my decision to buy the book, yes. (I'm not in the market for any d20 product, though.) I wouldn't buy from thieves. Of course, before I set any of the above in stone, I'd have to know a lot more about the situation and the agreements that were made regarding the project. As it stands, it looks like simple copyright infringement, and I find that intolerable.

[Pattern Ghost]

Needless to say, GoO is not very happy about it (the President over there, Jeff, commented that they had 'warned' DP9 about doing something like this, and that he "hopes" it doesn't "blow up in their faces").

This makes me think that either a) GoO doesn't believe it's worth the cost/effort to pursue legal action for copyright infrignement or b) DP9 may in fact have had some right to use that material according to their agreement. Is there anything more extensive about GoO's/Jeff's position on this? Linkage would help.

[Spudboy]

I worked on/playtestde GOOs book and...well, it needed more work, honest. Haven't seen the finished results, but I can only hope the extra time was worth it.

[Mark Taylor]

Makes me wonder if this had anything to do with David Pulver's decision to return to work for GoO from SJ Games. After all, he's written Mecha books for two different systems (GURPS and BESM) already.

[Bartman]

This bit cought my eye.

Originally posted by Polaris
DP9 has recently announced that on October 10, they are going to ship a new book: d20 Mecha Compendium--Deluxe Edition. This edition will include OGL rules from the D20 MECHA manuscript that GoO gave them at the beginning. Aren't the OGLs supposed to be fair game for exactly this? I thought that anything under d20 which was placed under a OGL is freely distributable by anyone else so long as they give proper credit and make no changes. Kind of like gnu ware on Unix/Linux.

It looks to me like GoO gave DP9 something under a freely redistributable license. Then GoO fell through with their end of the bargain. DP9 spent money, time and effort on a product, that due to GoO's actions has lost a bit of money in the marketplace. Now to recoup those losses, DP9 is going to distribute something that GoO gave them every right to distribute. It sounds like bad business planning and sour grapes on GoO's part to me.

Note: This opinion is formulated under the assumption that GoO actually DID give DP9 an OGL. If they did not please consider the proceding opinion null and void.

[Mark Taylor]

Anything PUBLISHED under the OGL is 'fair game', but GOO's book was not published yet... I think that changes things.

[Polaris]

Bartman,

d20 Mecha does have OGL content. When DP9 went ahead with plans to publish the Deluxe Mecha Compendium (as a result of GoO's enormous tardiness in getting out the rulebook), it was using the manuscript that was supplied to them from GoO. GoO made the point that they may have CHANGED what was going to be OGL and what was going to be closed content.

I think one of the things I am most impressed with about Hero Games and WoTC (and, what I have heard about DP9) is that they get product out when they say they are going to, or let us know in a very timely manner if it is going to be delayed.

Nothing against the folks at GoO, but they are building a reputation for saying something is going to be out in a given month, even saying that during the month it is to be out, only to have us find out later that the book wasn't even completed yet, much less at the printer.

I can understand DP9's frustration having such a 'partner'. My understanding is that this is not the first time that GoO has had trouble maintaining a schedule (I have not followed them long enough to know this first hand, so please understand this is coming second hand)... perhaps DP9 should not have relied upon them this time (just my opinion).

As it turns out, GoO's book came out, and DP9's book is still a week from delivery. I hope both books do well, and the mecha genre continues to get gaming support.

Polaris