What makes a module worth buying?

[KA.]

Okay, I have been reading the various posts about the slow initial sales of S.O.B.

In the interest of my own curiosity, (and a little unsolicited market research for DOJ), I would like to ask the question "What makes a module worth buying?"

I am not looking to open up the debate on S.O.B.'s relative merits. And, for the moment, I am not trying to open the PDF/Printed can of worms.

I want to know, based on those of us who have bought Champions/Hero modules, (and modules for any other game system, for that matter), what qualities were present in the modules that you were most happy with?

What made you look at a module you purchased and say, "That was worth the money! I'm glad I bought it."

I have some opinions of my own on this topic, but before I muddy the waters by introducing them, I wanted to take a poll and see how others feel.

Before we begin, a few requests.

1) Please read the choices carefully and pick the answer that best describes your opinion.

2) Please offer any other qualities that you feel a good module should possess.

3) Please do not answer with: "Well, the thing I didn't like about Shades of Black is . . ."
There are already threads running on that topic.

4) If you are a person who would never buy a module under any circumstances, please select that choice. Please don't select something like "Original Villains" and then go on to explain that the only thing you would actually buy is a Sourcebook filled with villains and nothing else. I am trying to get opinions from people who would be willing to buy modules if they met their expectations.

5) Since printed modules do not seem to be a choice at this time, please try not to turn this into an "I hate PDF's." debate. If we can find a "formula" for a module that will sell, then the anti-PDF delegates can plead their case.
But, right now, I think it is more important to find out what people here want in a module in the first place.

Thanks, and I look forward to seeing your opinions.

KA

[lemming]

I feinitly look at all of the above to consider buying a module.

Quality of any of the above makes me want to buy a module. I hardly ever use modules as is, but I'll pick out ideas and use them in some manner years down the line.

Which means that maps, counters, villians, etc... are probably not all that useful to me, but I enjoy reading. The more entertaining the book is to read, the more I'll want to buy the next.

So far, nothing that DOJ has produced has made me want to shy away from the next book. There's been value in each.
SOB is on the list to buy.

[KA.]

Originally posted by lemming
I feinitly look at all of the above to consider buying a module.

Quality of any of the above makes me want to buy a module. I hardly ever use modules as is, but I'll pick out ideas and use them in some manner years down the line.

Which means that maps, counters, villians, etc... are probably not all that useful to me, but I enjoy reading. The more entertaining the book is to read, the more I'll want to buy the next.

So far, nothing that DOJ has produced has made me want to shy away from the next book. There's been value in each.
SOB is on the list to buy.

Thanks for the reply.
I hope the tone of this poll did not come off as negative.
I am also planning to buy SOB, maybe today if my connection is good. And I agree on the quality of Hero products.

But I would like to know what, specifically, people are looking for in a module, and I wanted to ask before I gave my opinions.

KA

[Ghost Archer]

I have to vote "None of the Above" as I buy every book, be it paper or PDF, HERO puts out. I am probably just being a 'completest' but everthing I have picked up from DOJ has play value to me. Even for genres I am not planning to ever use. I use Star Hero for aliens. I use Fantasy Hero] for mages and refuges from fantasy realms. I will use modules for ideas and maps and characters even if they are taken out of context.

And I actually like PDF's

[Tom McCarthy]

I'll buy just about any Champions module, but the best ones are distinguished from the rest by a great plot, then great villains, then the rest. And by "great plot", I mean one that will draw in and excite your players.

Shades of Black, for example, stands out because it's a truly challenging plot that reinforces the genre while being a story that really screams out to be told if you have ever used Black Paladin in your campaign. After SOB, it will be personal between your heroes and the villain.

Champions Battlegrounds is another recent module which suffers slightly by comparison. Individual chapters are great, but I find the main antagonist uninspiring and his overall plot lacks a unique twist to set it apart. The product remains strong because the battles in the mall, theme park and construction site look cinematic and dramatic.

Take an old classic like the Great Supervillain Contest. Thin, bare bones, simplistic. It borders on the formulaic. But it has a few key elements that elevate it to a quality product: it motivates the villains, they try to humiliate the heroes, the players get to solve the mystery of the motivation, and infiltrate the event, competing with the villains. Great stories abound of characters discovering they just don't rank as targets in the Contest, and their indignation. Engaging the players is the goal.

[Hermit]

I went with "Great Plot" I have most of the books with the enemies in them, or can fake it. Maps and other things are great, and new characters are wonderful... but ultimately, a good plot that isn't too cliche', and yet isn't so 'out there' as to be out of genre is worth it's weight in gold.

[Monolith]

I went with villains, myself. I seldom use an adventure as written. What I end up doing is stealing bits and pieces of the adventure and incorporating them into my ongoing campaign. So for me maybe only a couple of paragraphs will be used out of 10 pages of adventure material. I especially like when an adventure can introduce a new location (a new VIPER contact area or the local thug's hangout). That type of material can be used in my campaign over and over, instead of just being part of one plot.

That is also the main reason why I chose villains in the poll. A good villain gets used again and again. Long after the reason for the adventure is gone a good villain lives on. Ripper is a good example of this. Escape from Stronghold is a simple little adventure but it gave the Champions' universe Ripper, who has endured for 20 years. People might not remember how Ripper escaped, but they do remember him. And we all know where Dr. Destroyer came from. :)

[JohnOSpencer]

Foxbat. Any module with Foxbat I will buy, 'cause it's bound to be a hoot.

John Spencer

[Magmarock]

I voted for all of the above, but its really like this: When I have a job, I buy one of everything in the game systems I run. (Barring any particular module a friend might be running me through, then I wait until the game is finished before buying the module.)

Currently, I am unemployed, so I have been buying only the bare-bones of what I need, and then only if I can actually use it, with the full intention of catching up once I am working again. That said, my most recent purchases have been Battlegrounds (from a gamestore) and the online purchase of a Bundle- CKC & MC (my brother owns both of these, so I had access to them, but since I am running Battlegrounds right now, I wanted my own copies of these source books- also, I mark mine up and color the pics while plotting my scenarios...).

But, even though I usually buy one of everything, I still want for quality in all aspects of the product. Sometimes I use bits and pieces, other times I use the whole thing as written- I'm very unpredictable.

Mags

[Lord Liaden]

I voted "all of the above" because it comes closest to what really matters to me in a module: long-term usefulness. A wonderful plot makes for a great story, but once that story's been run through it's really not reusable (unless and until you get together with another group of players who haven't been through that adventure). New villains don't matter that much to me if they're simplistic or single-note characters that function primarily as adjuncts to the plot of the module.

I recently mentioned Wrath of the Seven Horsemen on another thread. There have been a number of adventures that I enjoyed more, but the module introduced so many elements that were ripe for springboarding into more game sessions that I kept referring back to it again and again.

Another example would be To Serve and Protect. The story in that module is solid, but what really made it special was the Protectors hero team, probably the most colorful, diverse and well rounded NPC team Hero Games ever put in print. They became fixtures in my campaign, even as PCs on occasion. That module also taught me volumes about constructing a balanced team, developing character personalities and backgrounds, and employing team tactics. To top it off, the Skull Pendant became one of my favorite plot-generating McGuffins.

[hawkfu]

I also went with 'all of the above'.
To me first and foremost the villains are the most important because they are the component that has the best chance of continuing in my campaign.
The story is the next important because an exciting plot is always welcome. I have not yet used a module adventure as is but I have utilized ideas and settings for my own game.
Then I would say the maps and resources for the adventure. If you're gonna sell an adventure then sell the whole package.

Incidentally, I bought SOB and loved it. It represents exactly what I am looking for - cool story and includes all of the maps and resources to run it.

-Hawkfu

[proditor]

I went with plot. For me, I can usually make any changes needed to the villains, I make my own minis and counters and terrain, and most "bits" in a great module are specific to the plot so they tend not to be generic enough to use again. If they are, odds are I don't like them. ;)

But a compelling story, aye, there's the stuff.

I agree with the person who mentioned making it personal. I lifted a plot in my teens from (of all places) the Marvel GI Joe comic book and substituted VIPER and Eurostar for what became the longest running fued I have had in any game ever. The base story idea was compelling and grandiose enough to get the players hooked and spark rivalries that lasted years.

[Enforcer84]

Well, it depends. Now I tend to buy name brand, if its a Champions Product or Hero Product I buy it.

When I was younger, it was art. If the art appealed to me I would buy it.


not scientific, but I did have a very ecclectic and personally asthetically pleasing collection of gaming material.

[Ghost who Walks]

None of the above (I'm one of those)

At one time I would buy a module purely for the art, or for a map. I was young and foolish, and the google search didn't exist. Now I find most of the art I want online, same as maps.

Villains and NPC's are always good. Mainly, cause I get to see a different take on a power, a disadvantage, or a character. But I always have to modify, and usually end up redoing them anyway.

It has been a long time since I have used a module I have bought, like others, I pull out the parts I like and use them.

But if I were to pic one up, what would draw me to it is if it had more than one scenario/adventure in it. They don't have to be long. They don't have to be connected. But they help spark ideas for me.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Gents: I put plot.

The tricky part is that this is impossible to judge over the net or by picking up a module. That is why I often use game reviews. If several game reviews are good I'll buy it. I also use writers. I've discovered that I like certain writers. That will also convince me to buy certain products.

Anywho...nice poll idea.

[Rune]

I chose "all of the above," but a major selling point for me is the extent that I can continue to reuse the elements in the module whether they're characters or interesting locations.

[Agent X]

Plot, New Characters, Maps, Other Resources

[TheEmerged]

Speaking for myself, plot is the #1 concern but new characters is WAY too close of a second. If these were the only two factors, it would be 50.1% plot versus 49.9% characters.

Without new characters, a module suffers from very poor reuse.

[Polaris]

I put all of the above.

The least important was the first (challenging/interesting plot). I don't believe I would get much use out of the individual adventure because our players tend to go off in their own direction, and finding an adventure that would 'fit' into the plot would be difficult.

I like the source material (villains, bases, weapons, NPCs, community political and social structures, etc) that can be taken from adventures. I just bought a number of d20 supplements from Avalanche Press for the source material in them (settings, cultures, etc).

I do like a good read, also. I am going to be getting Alien Wars for the reading more than thinking that any part of it would fit into my Star Hero game.

There are too many adventure ideas offered on the web and other sources of stories (books, TV, movies, etc) to spend money on one as an adventure. If I am going to spend money on it, I would really want it to be something that I can use more than once. The more I can use it, the more likely I would be to buy it.

Polaris

[loraxxx]

and don't forget cool art--especially of the characters....

[starblaze]

I personally feel that plot is the most important with character being the second most and actual art being just an additional treat. My two favorite adventures to run were Street Magic from Shadows of the City and Menace out of time from Champions Present 1. They both had good plots and characters with alot of plot twists.

[KA.]

Okay, I finally decided to cast a vote of my own.

First, I would like to thank everyone that contributed, and encourage anyone else with a strong opinion to vote.

My vote was for "New Villains/NPC's to use in my campaign."

One of the complaints about modules is that once they are run through once they don't have much value.

What can give a module "lasting value"?

Let's look at the options, one by one:

Interesting/Challenging Plot

Well, unless a GM has a new group every few years, it is pretty hard to re-use a plot, no matter how good it is.

New Villains/NPC's to use in my campaign

Obviously, I place a lot of weight on this one. I know that there are sourcebooks of villains available, but those are "common ground".

If your group takes turns GM'ing, it is a little harsh (and unrealistic) to say:
"No one but me can get CKC. I don't want you looking at the stats for villains I might use."

Not only that, it would hurt sales of "big books" even if you could get the group to cooperate.

By having original villains in modules, there is an incentive for a GM to buy them.
Even if he changes the plot, he may get a couple of great new villains for his campaign.
And, unless every player buys every module, these will be "his" villains.

Traps, Tricks, Encounters, "Bits", to use in my campaign

Many Traps, Tricks etc. are one-use items. The group will see right through them the next time around.

Maps, Counters, Other Resources

These can have major replay value. (Ask my players how many times they have seen the basic map from Viper's Nest!;))
But, I think it is to be expected that a module will include some maps, even if there is no other art. So it is not exactly a selling point.

GM only material (any of the above)

Again, I see this as the main value of modules.
They are intended to be GM Only.
Even back in our D&D days many years ago, my group would "divide up" who would buy which module.
That way, even though we all bought the "sourcebooks", we could have some official material that "belonged" to us, without having to create everything ourselves.

Okay, that's my take on things.

Now, I can finally reveal My Master Plan!TM

When I first saw that DOJ's policy on modules was to use pre-existing villains, I did not like the idea.

I thought it might affect sales of modules.

But, since I have agreed with just about every single thing that DOJ has done up until now, and have the greatest of admiration for their work, I just kept quiet.

I did not want to do anything to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. (By getting everyone started on the "new villains" thing before SOB came out, and possibly discouraging sales.)

However, since sales of SOB have been a bit lower than expected, and now it seems that the whole idea of future modules may be in question, I felt the need to speak up.

I think modules have excellent potential as a "gateway drug" into GM'ing. And, while there is sometimes a lack of players, there seems to always be a lack of GM's.

If a player is faced with having to create an entire world of his own just to run a game. And create new villains. Or spend the money to buy an entire book full of villains, when he only wants one or two, it can seem rather daunting.

I always saw modules as the "slice and bake cookies" of RPG's.

Almost anyone can pick one up and "get cooking" without having to buy a lot of other stuff, and without having to worry about figuring a lot of stuff out.

Anyone with a good enough knowledge of Hero to play can pick up a module and try GM'ing without a lot of expense or commitment. If they do a good enough job, BOOM, a new GM in the world!

Let's say a group of friends are thinking of trying Hero. The first thing they have to determine is "Who is going to GM?"
With a ready supply of modules, it is a lot easier for someone to step up and say: "Okay, I'll give it a try."
After all, if no one steps up, they may just move on to another, inferior, system that does have modules.

So, to shorten this as much as possible, my opinion is that:
a) Modules are important.
b) They should contain original villains.

Please offer your comments and opinions,

KA

[Supreme Serpent]

Villains/characters. Simple "Enemies" style books are great, but it's good seeing the (hopefully) more in-depth attention villains get in modules. Gives you a better feel for them seeing how they are presented within a story. Like the difference between reading a "Who's Who" or "Marvel Universe" writeup of a villain compared to reading a good comic with him as the villain.

Though the main villains were not "new", I still LOVE the Deathstroke module. Presented the ex-Destroyers well, moving them to the next level - taking them from a bank-busting villain group to a real world-class style threat, complete with agents, giant bug armies, etc. Plus we had Dr. Draconis, a great tin-plated nutjob. OH, and S.A.T.! And cool base maps! And good gaming/roleplaying sections! And DR. DEATH!!!!

Gads, what a great module. Good in its own right, and also can add so much to an ongoing campaign. After an adventure like that, players are sure to love/dread running into the villains again. And S.A.T. can earn a regular role in the universe as well. Stronghold worked well in this regard too - added a very useful "piece" to the Champions Universe.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Supreme Serpent
Villains/characters. Simple "Enemies" style books are great, but it's good seeing the (hopefully) more in-depth attention villains get in modules. Gives you a better feel for them seeing how they are presented within a story. Like the difference between reading a "Who's Who" or "Marvel Universe" writeup of a villain compared to reading a good comic with him as the villain.

Though the main villains were not "new", I still LOVE the Deathstroke module. Presented the ex-Destroyers well, moving them to the next level - taking them from a bank-busting villain group to a real world-class style threat, complete with agents, giant bug armies, etc. Plus we had Dr. Draconis, a great tin-plated nutjob. OH, and S.A.T.! And cool base maps! And good gaming/roleplaying sections! And DR. DEATH!!!!

Gads, what a great module. Good in its own right, and also can add so much to an ongoing campaign. After an adventure like that, players are sure to love/dread running into the villains again. And S.A.T. can earn a regular role in the universe as well. Stronghold worked well in this regard too - added a very useful "piece" to the Champions Universe.

Yep, those are exactly the kind of modules I am talking about!

A chance to see a villain (or villains) in-depth, in a way that a sourcebook can't duplicate.

And add something to your campaign.

I know that many of us are crusty old-timers who can whip this stuff up in our sleep, but for Hero to prosper, we need new players AND new GM's.

Not everyone is up to doing it all themselves.

I know that Hero 5th is "The Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit",
but when the people at Shopsmith want to sell you their
"Complete Woodworking Homeshop in a Single, Easy-To-Use Machine", they know enough to give you a book of simple projects to get you started.

That way people don't end up staring at the thing asking: "Why did I buy this, I don't really know what to do with it?"

I just don't want people staring at Fred asking the same thing.;)

KA