03. Old 1: - DCV As A Force Field

[MistWing]

This is an old debate that was never resolved. It kind of died, but I was still curious about it.

Waaayyyy back when, I had a character who had a starship. In building it, I increased the ship’s DCV (I didn’t like a negative DCV). A player in the group commented that the DCV bonus would cause the passengers/crew to be thrown around whenever it was used, since DCV was defined as a character’s innate ability to evade attacks. I countered, saying that my ship’s DCV was actually a virtually impenetrable force field. My justification was that DCV game-effect was to prevent the character/ship from taking any damage. The player countered by saying the DCV caused attacks to miss, so the attacks could travel past the character and hit something behind the character. A force field would prevent that.

The debate died because it was irrelevant. In deep space, where the ship normally operated, there was nothing ‘behind’ the ship that could be hit. So, my definition was allowed to stand.

My question is, in general, who was right? I realize that there will always be special cases where one or the other would be more proper. I’m curious about the more general situation.

Thanks
MistWing SilverTail

[Chris Goodwin]

You would have been right in this instance. Claiming that the people inside the ship would have been thrown around is an attempt to assign SFX to a game mechanic.

[Lord Liaden]

I concur with archer. Increased DCV is just the combat mechanic: it can look like anything from dodging, to deflecting an incoming attack, to blocking it outright with a barrier (a hit meaning that the barrier was penetrated).

[Killer Shrike]

By default in the HERO System, missed shots just miss unless you are benefiting from cover or in the case of AoE attacks. There is no "hitting another target behind them" rule by default.

DCV isnt to prevent damage, its to prevent getting hit.

With that said the SFX of how that is accomplished are immaterial, and dont have a direct game effect unless the GM interprets their SFX to make it so.

Insisting that the crew of a ship would be jostled by the DCV of the ship is an erroneous claim. However, you could take a Side Effect to this ends as a Limitation -- a Change Environment penalty to DEX rolls vs the contents of the ship frex -- if you wanted a point break on the DCV levels.


In this case, if you want to prevent your Spaceship from taking damage you should buy Force Fields or Force Wall or Armor or Damage Reduction or Damage Resistance. Your DCV "Force Field" wont work vs Area of Effect attacks, which almost all heavy ship to ship weapons should be (at least 1 hex radius, or Explosion), IMO.

[Farkling]

But if my ship occupies 50 Hexes, how is a single Hex Area Effect an Area Effect attack against it?

[prestidigitator]

I don't believe ships should have negative DCV vs. other ships the same size (see the rules under Growth). It doesn't make much sense to use the reduced DCV, especially if you scale up hexes to mean something significant for spaceships. Now, if a character is firing at a ship taking off from the surface, the negative DCV (maybe adjusted for speed) makes sense: the darn thing is big!

I think the DCV bonus for the ship works. That could easily represent a "deflection shield" Special Effect (which might work against directed weapons, but not against Area of Effects, such as big explosions).

By the way, there is a mechanic for missed shots, at least for Area of Effects. You miss by one hex for each point by which the attack roll failed, to a maximum of half the distance between you and the target, in a random direction. I don't think this is very good for Special Effects such as bows or guns unless there are other targets in the way, so I often use it (along with OCV 0 attack rolls) to see if you hit another target when firing into a melee, and not much else.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Farkling
But if my ship occupies 50 Hexes, how is a single Hex Area Effect an Area Effect attack against it?
I think ship weapons should only be automatically considered Area of Effect attacks when you deal with small targets, such as normal characters. For dealing with other ships, attacks should be bought with the Area of Effect Advantage in order to actually work that way, and most things like lasers, projectiles (even large ones), and maybe even some missiles, should not be bought this way.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by prestidigitator
By the way, there is a mechanic for missed shots, at least for Area of Effects. You miss by one hex for each point by which the attack roll failed, to a maximum of half the distance between you and the target, in a random direction. I don't think this is very good for Special Effects such as bows or guns unless there are other targets in the way, so I often use it (along with OCV 0 attack rolls) to see if you hit another target when firing into a melee, and not much else.


Killer ShrikeBy default in the HERO System, missed shots just miss <span style="background-color:Yellow; font-size: 14pt;font-weight: bold;border: double gold 1px;color:black;">unless you are benefiting from cover or in the case of AoE attacks.</span> There is no "hitting another target behind them" rule by default.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Farkling
But if my ship occupies 50 Hexes, how is a single Hex Area Effect an Area Effect attack against it? If you think about this for a second, it should come to you.

[Farkling]

I'm thinking Shrike. I think my psych breakdown is that I picture an Area Effect as hitting the whole target...I will continue to ponder. :)

And as a side note...a common defensive ship option involving DCV levels does exist in science fiction.
Robotech.

Point Defense systems could be either DCV levels or Missile Deflection...

[TheEmerged]

Think of +DCV levels as the "deflector screens" and suddenly it isn't too hard of justify.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I've done that myself quite a bit.

My Star Hero campaign has personal Deflector screens that provide DCV bonuses instead of Def.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite
I've done that myself quite a bit.

My Star Hero campaign has personal Deflector screens that provide DCV bonuses instead of Def.

Shields do that as well - they provide DCV bonuses vs attacks (p 334 FRED) - small size personal shields that is.

[VictorVonDoom]

remember the Displacer beast: it displaced itself to make a copy few inches away of itself . So your forccefield would serve as displacement shield giving you a +DCV bonus... (like a dexterity bonus in D&D)

It wouldn't be a forcefield persay but it offers you a dodging bonus instead... or you should add the bonus to your dexterity (because DCV is derived from dex) instead... like it was a characterics power link to your heroes dex score