System trying to be intelligent

[RobCRogers]

I've found that the case of it trying to be intelligent sometimes makes it overly cautious. An example is that I tried to purchase Armor with the Invisible Power Effects Advantage. Invisible was in the Unavailable Advantages list, with the reason that "Armor is already invisible." The first problem is that I don't see that rule written up anywhere (Armor should have special effects--bouncing bullets, clanging metal, toughened hide, etc.) Even if you assume that that requirement is waved, there are several reasons why I might want to buy it with "Invisible power effects." Maybe I'm buying special kevlar clothing that looks normal. Maybe (as in this case), I'm creating a zombie-like character and want him to *seem* to take the damage rather than shrug it off, even if it ultimately doesn't get past his defenses. Etc.

Base point: "Unavailable" limitations and advantages are a fairly cool idea, but there needs to be a way to override them when the human actually knows better than the machine.

[Simon]

1) Armor is inherently invisible. Per Steve and per the rules. Armor costs no END to use, therefore it is invisible. Easy as that.

2) The modifier intelligence will prevent you from taking any modifiers which are not legal on the ability. If you don't want this, then turn off modifier intelligence under the app prefs.

If all you want is some bizarre modifier that is similar to an existing one, then you may want to use a custom modifier instead and leave modifier intelligence on.

[RobCRogers]

Originally posted by dsimon
1) Armor is inherently invisible. Per Steve and per the rules. Armor costs no END to use, therefore it is invisible. Easy as that.

Easy, perhaps. Universally agreed upon, no. Since I couldn't find this clearly defined under either the rules for Armor or the rules for Special Effects, it's not all that cut and dried.


2) The modifier intelligence will prevent you from taking any modifiers which are not legal on the ability. If you don't want this, then turn off modifier intelligence under the app prefs.

I hadn't found that option in the app. prefs, so that does address the problem relatively well. Tell me, though. Other than changing the "Unavailable" modifiers to "Non-Recommended" ones and allowing the user to make non-recommended choices when desired, are there other differences between using modifier intelligence and not? If there aren't other differences, then I'm quite satisfied to leave it off. If I'm losing some other functionality, I'd like to know what I'm giving up.


If all you want is some bizarre modifier that is similar to an existing one, then you may want to use a custom modifier instead and leave modifier intelligence on.

The modifier I mentioned really isn't all that bizarre. While I see your point, please see mine: I prefer a system I can work with instead of work around. Usually, Hero Designer fits the bill, and if the modifier intelligence works as I described above, I have no complaints. But I'd prefer to avoid workarounds (and the additional work of typing in modifiers already in the system, looking up their values, etc.) when a simple "override" check box in program would avoid this problem. Sounds like you've already got that taken care of, though, so I'm a happy camper.

[Simon]

Originally posted by RobCRogers
Easy, perhaps. Universally agreed upon, no. Since I couldn't find this clearly defined under either the rules for Armor or the rules for Special Effects, it's not all that cut and dried.
It is extremely clear and very well established. Read FREd, re: Visibility on Powers -- Powers that cost END (inherently) are considered Visible. Powers that do not cost END (inherently) are not Visible. If you don't agree with this, then you are using your own rules. Period. FREd states this, Steve has backed this up in questions that have been asked on the Rules Questions board. I don't know how much "clearer" or "universally agreed upon" you could want.




I hadn't found that option in the app. prefs, so that does address the problem relatively well. Tell me, though. Other than changing the "Unavailable" modifiers to "Non-Recommended" ones and allowing the user to make non-recommended choices when desired, are there other differences between using modifier intelligence and not? If there aren't other differences, then I'm quite satisfied to leave it off. If I'm losing some other functionality, I'd like to know what I'm giving up.
That's all it does -- allows you to select the Modifiers that are normally not available.




The modifier I mentioned really isn't all that bizarre. While I see your point, please see mine: I prefer a system I can work with instead of work around. Usually, Hero Designer fits the bill, and if the modifier intelligence works as I described above, I have no complaints. But I'd prefer to avoid workarounds (and the additional work of typing in modifiers already in the system, looking up their values, etc.) when a simple "override" check box in program would avoid this problem. Sounds like you've already got that taken care of, though, so I'm a happy camper.
It is extremely clear (see above) that the modifier that you're talking about is "bizarre". It goes against the rules of the system. Period. End of story. Invisible Power Effects is not a valid option for Armor. Ever. Period.

If you want to go by your own rules, you can....I've given you plenty of ways to do so.