Possible bug relating to charges that Cost END

[Silbeg]

I was creating a power, (happened to be a flight pack) which at first I had assigned fuel charges to as a lim, and then costs END.

After discussion with the player I was working with, we removed the charges, however, the costs END remained.
I thought that was a little quirky (an interesting end-around!).

I was able to replicate this, by creating an Ego Attack, continuous, 0 END, damage shield. I was able to remove all but the damage shield, and the power saved without question (even though it wasn't a legal power any more).

Is it possible to check for the legality of modifiers when removing modifiers?

Thanks,
Jack...

[Simon]

It's something I've been waffeling on for a while now....

It's certainly possible, I'm just not sure whether it should be done or not.

HD will guide you through the creation of powers, letting you know what Modifiers are available, etc.....but should it continue to restrict those powers as remove/alter them?

I guess it's a question of whether the "work around" for some of the program logic should be there or not....

[Silbeg]

Would it be possible to at least warn the user when modifying this?

This would at least let the user know that they might be inadvertantly "breaking the rules".

Or, perhaps, add it as a campaign rule, or preference somewhere? That way, the user can decide?

Just a couple of thoughts...

Silbeg...

[Talon]

The warning model makes sense. I'd hate to start having HD auto-remove modifiers as you alter a character. You could have the warning level settable, so people who didn't care could just turn it off.

Alternately, a "check for legality" command could do this in one swoop, if it proves too difficult/slow to do it dynamically.

[Simon]

It's rather easy for me to put in a filter so that when you remove a modifier from a given Power, or add one in, each of the assigned modifiers will be checked for validity.

This validity check would also occur anytime you opened a given Power/ability for edit (so you could check over existing characters).

I can put in a setting under app prefs (right after the Modifier Intelligence setting) which specifies what to do in the case of violations (ignore, warn, do not allow). If the setting it put to "do not allow" (which would likely be the default), then the offending modifiers would be removed from the ability.

Sound good?

[Talon]

Let me actually think about it for a sec. :)

I see two scenarios for using this logic: players making sure their characters are legit, and GMs making sure players aren't trying to pull a fast one.

For players, the "real-time" warning is ideal -- it lets them know right away.

For GMs, an overall validity check -- not just when you edit a power, but when you open a character -- would be ideal, if it weren't for the performance hit.

I think what you proposed is great for players and so-so for GMs. A "check this character" command is probably the only GM-perfect solution.

[Silbeg]

Dan,

I like what you have proposed, especially if it isn't a ton of work for you to implement. Will be very useful.

Talon, you are probably correct in your estimation, and there is another issue to look at... characters created before this check is implemented. Either way, a method for checking a character for validity (a "sanity check", per se), would be useful. I would want this to be something that I actively enact, as I would prefer to take the performance hit on this at a time of my choosing, rather than each time I am opening a file.

Thanks!!!

Silbeg...

[Simon]

OK...I've got the validation/checks in place.

I put in the "whole character validation" as a menu item under Tools for the time being.

The good news is that the whole character validation is not that big of a performance hit -- I'm able to check over Dr. Destroyer in less than a second, for example. Because of this, I'm wondering if the menu item is even necessary....it might be best/easiest to just put it into the character open process....

Thoughts?

[Mastermind]

I think it is only a matter of preference. Would we prefer to see the rules violations pop-up as we open a character or control when we would see the errors?

Another question.

Would the validation work if you changed the from the default Hero Rules.?

For example: let's say that you have damage level caps in your campaign and someone wants to bring a ready-made. You instiute your Custom Campaign Rules set. Would you get a warning if the character, while legal under Hero Rules, would be illegal under your Campaign Rules?

[Simon]

We're not talking about that kind of validation...this process would be checking the Modifier Intelligence. As such, it's independent of the Campaign Rules.

[Talon]

Since we're testing, try it as part of the Open and see what people think. I'm liking the new speed so much that I'll probably prefer it as a separate item though.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Talon
Since we're testing, try it as part of the Open and see what people think. I'm liking the new speed so much that I'll probably prefer it as a separate item though.
I've got it worked into the character open process...honestly, I don't think you'll notice it (apart from any pauses due to dialog popups telling you about violations).

If folks see a slower load time because of it, it's very easy to pull back out.

I'll probably push out a new build sometime tomorrow (get folks running with a fresh copy for the weekend).