Unenthusiatic players

[tkdguy]

I've been having trouble getting the players together for a game lately. I know life happens and people are busy, but is it too much to ask people to set aside some time once a month to get together and play the game?

The problem is there's always at least one person who isn't free when the others are. It wouldn't be so bad in a large group, but there are only three players, excluding myself. Add to the fact I'm trying to teach them how to play HERO; it would be much simpler to be able to show them all at once how to do things.

Even more frustrating is their lukewarm attitude about the campaign. They all say it's okay, and they're willing to give it a shot, but their lack of enthusiasm shows, and it's frustrating to have a year of hard work get that kind of reaction.

Does anyone know how I can spice things up? I've asked the players what they want, and they don't have any suggestions.

[RadeFox]

There could be one or a few things going on with your group. Take all this with a grain of salt, friend.

1: They are old AD&D junkies, and the hero system is like trying to teach them 'html in japanese'. They may feel they already know how to game, so why learn another system.This is rather more common amongs the , ahem, less intelligent gamers, or those who don't put any extra effort in games. IE- The hack and slashers from AD&D days.

2: Your story line isn't what they wanted. Did you poll them before working on the game, a year is a long time, so did you brief them on the campaign before inviting them, since it sounds like you had the campaign mostly done when you sought out players.

2.5: They don't like their characters. Did they make them up themselves, or were they premade by you? Many gamers prefer to have a hand in the creation of their alter egos, and find it hard to really 'get into' a character handed to them. Even if they DID have a hand in the making of their characters, I get the drift that you are teaching them Hero as they play. Chances are many of them are finding out their characters aren't performing up to their expectations. It might be a very good idea to ask them how they feel about their characters, and offer everyone a chance to 're-work' them, now that they are seeing how the system works.

3: This is the rough one, Maybe your storytelling skills need some work. Has this happened to you with groups in the past? That can tell you a lot. If this is your first game, then maybe you need to find a way to get a GM you enjoyed playing under to sit in for at least a session and give you an honest critique after the game. Dont be afraid to ask the players to do the same. Gaming is a Team Hobby, the GM is just the Team captain. All good captains listen to their teammates. :)

Outside of this, maybe you just need to get another group and try again.

[MoonHunter]

My post was basically 2, 2.5, and 3.

Might I suggest you do both of the followings:
Part A
Talk with your players and find out what "bits" would make the game interesting for them. Each bit is a genre elements, a type of adventure they want to see, a type of opposition, plts/ subplots, npcs and places to see and go to, and so on. After talking to them, modify your existing campaign ideas or cobble together a new one.

Generate some characters that fit the new campaign. Story weave them together, trying their histories and motives together. Have them generate a few more bits, related to their characters and campaign.

Mix and play a will.

Part B
Find some new players that are interested in the same kind of gaming you are. Harsh, but better to gameless for a little while, while you find a new group that you can really play with, than playing with people who don't want to play what you want to play.
Then do part A with them.

[RadeFox]

Good points MoonHunter. It was what I meant to infer in part of my #3, the whole team captain bit, but its late, and me mind isn't quite as eloquent in the wee hours. Thanks for being on the ball! :)

tdkguy, I hope these ideas help you out. I think every GM has been where you're at least once. Let us know how things turn out!

[tkdguy]

It's probably a bit of all of it. Maybe my GMing skills are rusty, although I've never had much of a problem with storytelling before. One player said he was used to the D&D-style campaign, although another player asked me not to use D&D or GURPS for the campaign.

It could be the setting. Maybe they weren't expecting a fantasy campaign without magic. But I already told them what the campaign was about, and I made sure I included what they wanted with their characters. I did speak to them about it, and they approved the characters I made for them.

In all fairness, the most experienced roleplayer said he could do anything in the campaign, although he'd rather stay out of politics. Another gave me a few plot ideas. Still, I'd like them to be more open about what they like and dislike about the game. Since we are close friends, they know they can be frank with me.

And thanks for the suggestions, guys. They are much appreciated.

[RadeFox]

Thats your answer then. You need to institute a GameTalk time. I suggest when the pizza arrives (when I do it). Let it be known that you are open to any and all game ideas, grudges, bitches, wishes, and whatever they wish to say. Take notes, listen to them, let them know their opinions really do count. I think you'll likely see a much higher interest rate in the game then.

GM's have a lot on their plate, and its hard to meet so many goals and expectations. its very easy to forget things or get sidetracked. Letting the players help out with their own goals/wishes and wanted plots is a nice cookie for a Gm to get. I've found that letting the players help steer the game with their imput (and using Whimsy Cards), adds layers on complexity and interest I NEVER would have come up with on my own. :)

[tkdguy]

The game talk time would be good, thanks, RadeFox. I've been talking to the players on a one-on-one basis. It doesn't seem to get me anywhere. Maybe a collective effeort will solve the problem.

Maybe they'll even do their homework. Especially the guy who plays an ex-priest. He didn't even read the stuff I sent him about the religion his character is supposed to follow. Granted, the article was a bit long, but he should at least get the basics down. If nothing else, I can at least go down in history as the father of Zen Catholicism (I coined that phrase before I read it on Star HERO).

[Herolover]

I am pretty much in the same kind of place you are.

It might not be you. I think many gamers today are not dedicated to this. This really isn't their hobby this is just something they do. This is why I feel more and more quick and easy game systems are coming out. No one wants to put the time and effort into their games.

My current group has the same problem. No one wants to GM, but since I enjoy GM'ing I say I will. I ask what everyone wants and the answer is: "I don't care." So now I have a Fantasy campaign and my group seems totally unexcited about it. I mean, is it to much to ask that in a week or two weeks time the player might have looked at this character sheet?

I think many gamers today are just showing up to game. They don't want to put much effort into their game. My opinion is that this is my hobby and it doesn't bother me if I have to work a little at it.

I personnally am going to sit down and talk to my group and see if they want to play, what they want to play, and none of the bs "I don't care."

[austenandrews]

It's also true that sometimes people's interest in playing just wanes. It especially happens when jobs, marriages, kids and whatnot become more and more prevalent. No big deal. You shouldn't automatically think of it as a reflection on your game. Life and schedules just work that way sometimes.

Of course it might also be your GMing style. Unfortunately that's happened to me in the past, where my style drifted from what the group wanted and one or two campaigns died on the vine. Even more unfortunate is that my players, good friends all, didn't want to explain it to me in those terms. That can be a kick in the gut, for sure. But you get over it. Your friends won't think less of you. They're only games, after all, and once you get over the time lost in campaign preparation, it's not that hard to bounce back. Take some time off, rethink your style, maybe play in someone else's game, and then it's right back in the saddle again.

-AA

[tkdguy]

The good news is everyone has agreed to convene a week from today. I'll be entertaining questions and comments about the game, my GMing style, the characters, etc. Since there are only four of us, and we're all friends, it shouldn't be too difficult to come to some sort of arrangement.

[RadeFox]

We wish for you the best, and may this revitalize your game, so all your hard work can be appreciated!

Let us know how it pans out in the end. :)

[tkdguy]

I will. Thanks.

[GrooveD70]

Im having much of the same trouble. Ive been running RPG's for a long time, and had I pretty successful D&D campaign recently (a two and a half year campaign). And though the group expressed interest in a Champs campaign, my old D20 group of 6 PC's dwindled to 2. One said that the system was "daunting" and the others got "busy". What's worse is I REALLY do not want to go back to D20 and all the gamers in this town seem to like is D&D 3e (or 3.5) and White Wolf LARPs.
I feel Hero is hands down a better system than D20 and most others. Any tips on how to convert the D20 masses?

[tkdguy]

Actually, GrooveD70, I left a gaming group because I felt the group was in a rut. I wanted to play other systems besides AD&D, and I was tired of Greyhawk. Nobody else wanted to change. Aside from having to travel to Alameda via BART and AC Transit (which got expensive to do weekly; I didn't have a job at the time), that was my main reason for leaving the group.

I did start a D&D game (3.0, although I still prefer 2nd Ed.) set in the Forgotten Realms. My main rule: No Greyhawk in my game. Ever. That game died because the players got busy, and they lost their own character sheets. Go figure.

[RadeFox]

Woohoo, Grove, from Grand Rapids, my ole stomping grounds!

Only way to convert players to Hero from d20 is to get them to try Hero. Enitce, lure, Bribe (pizza works great), or coerce (hold their d20 books hostage), heehee.

Make a simple gamestory, light on combat and heavy on focusing on the many different aspects of Hero play- skills, peceptions, talents, perks, etc, and then run it for them. Those who like realism in their games, will likely come back, the others, toss em to the dungeons. Heehee :P

[Trencher]

Asking the players what they want sound like a good idea but the problem is that players dont really know what they want...
Try to give them something they did not know they wanted.

[Killer Shrike]

In this case, consider just not running at all and/or finding a different group to play with.

[tkdguy]

Well, the game session ended a half-hour ago, and I talked to the players abut what they wanted and didn't want. So far, they're willing to give the HERO system and the campaign a shot for now. I had planned a few changes to the map and the religion, and they said it was my call. I told them they were giving up the chance to change anything they didn't like, and they said they were okay with that. Well, I gave them the chance. If they don't like how the campaign shapes up, they can't complain now.

[Victor]

Originally posted by tkdguy
If they don't like how the campaign shapes up, they can't complain now.

They could, at least in theory, but it doesn't sound like they would.

Maybe it's worth an attempt at a troupe-style or shared-world game, to try to get them more involved?

[Mayday]

When you and they talk about other things, like movies what gets their attention and energy? If you can distill that down maybe that would help? Like Star Wars fans, playing in a Star Wars universe. Or Matrix. Or Underworld. Whatever their topic.

My problem is that for awhile our game group fell into hiatus. Some went to college some lived farther away.... I really really want to game again, desperately, but now that they are together again I dont get invited much and when I do I mess up :(

I Loathe Greyhawk, I like AD&D and Champions 4, and dont see the need to upgrade to the new systems when you can and we have been "House Ruling" them for years.

Most recently I was invited back for a Greyhawk Campaign in the new D&D system with a character made with no input by me and several pages of detailed bio that did not "click" with me at all.

Then when the GM laid out a new Champions 5 campaign by handing me a pre-made clone of my favorite character Mayday, but not Mayday, I made his life miserable trying to get to play the real Mayday. Finally he explained that it wasnt just a character clone, it was a CLONE of Mayday. Doh. Unfortunately the clone had none of the things that made Mayday a heroine rather than a villain, but she had cool toys and I was looking forward to it even if the clone was by all rights a brat. That whole week I was sick, and the day of the game I threw up three times before the first segment was over with, and had to stop. Havent heard from them since.

So I thought ok, if I can't play I'll run something for them! My GMing ability is a history of doing ok then mess up, crash and burn, and when I floated the offer I was turned down flat.

I guess what I'm saying is... I hope it works out for you and your team. :-)

[tkdguy]

Mayday, I feel your pain. Maybe you should find a new group, if you can't come to terms with your current group. I hope you find people you'll be happy gaming with soon.

Thanks for the well wishes. The group is becoming more positive, so maybe things will turn out okay after all.