Lord Liaden
May 26th, '11, 06:41 PM
Steven S. Long (07:58.19 PM)
Good evening, all and sundry. ;-)
Indiana Joe (07:58.25 PM)
Hi Steve
Gregory (07:58.27 PM)
small group tonight!
Steven S. Long (07:58.39 PM)
Yup, small group so far... perhaps some more folx will show up soonly.
Indiana Joe (07:58.52 PM)
People may be getting ready for the holiday.
Steven S. Long (07:59.15 PM)
Could be that too. I keep forgetting Monday is a No Mail Day.
Gregory (07:59.54 PM)
and a lot of people take friday or a half a day off too
Steven S. Long (08:00.10 PM)
Day off? What the hell is a day off? ;-)
Gregory (08:00.19 PM)
:-)
Lord Liaden (08:00.47 PM)
Can I be sundry? :-)
Indiana Joe (08:00.59 PM)
I normally get Fridays off (because I hit 40 hours Thursday afternoon), unless it's the week before a holiday week. (Normally. This week is an exception.)
Steven S. Long (08:01.36 PM)
I had a friend who used to do that, IJ -- he worked 10 hours per day Mon-Thurs so he always had Fri off.
Lord Liaden (08:01.42 PM)
I'm in the GWN -- what's the holiday in the States?
Steven S. Long (08:01.49 PM)
Memorial Day.
Narf the Mouse (08:01.51 PM)
Hi, Steve
Gregory (08:01.54 PM)
Same here on that schedule
Steven S. Long (08:01.55 PM)
Hi Narf!
Indiana Joe (08:02.05 PM)
Yeah, that's my schedule.
Gordon Feiner (08:02.05 PM)
hey Steve.
Steven S. Long (08:02.15 PM)
Hey Gordon!
We'll give it a few more minutes, just in case anyone else decides to join the party. ;-)
In the meantime I'll keep listening to all the music I uploaded to my computer yesterday.
Indiana Joe (08:03.59 PM)
Most holidays we do early production on Fridays, but not this time. Not sure why.
Gordon Feiner (08:04.19 PM)
how goes the music hunt?
Steven S. Long (08:04.48 PM)
Pretty good -- I have polished off most of one list (Beach Music). The real toughie will be when I tackle my Seventies lists, which are a muddle.
Indiana Joe (08:04.56 PM)
http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/ :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:05.06 PM)
I'm dying to know what's in "Beach Music"
Steven S. Long (08:05.27 PM)
Beach Music is a regional category of music local to the Carolinas and Virginia, mostly.
Gordon Feiner (08:05.41 PM)
ooh...
Indiana Joe (08:05.43 PM)
Ah, it's distinct from Surf Music.
Steven S. Long (08:06.10 PM)
It's hard to define; the best definition is probably, "music that was on jukeboxes in Myrtle Beach in the Fifties and Sixties, plus later music in that style." Heavier on keys and horns than on guitar in most respects.
Yes, distinct from Surf Music, which is the Beach Boys, Jan & Dean, etc.
Gregory (08:06.46 PM)
I prefer Allan Sherman Camp Granada myself :-}
Steven S. Long (08:06.48 PM)
Beach Music is groups like the Tams, the Embers, the Catalinas, the Clovers, the Platters, the Band of Oz.
Indiana Joe (08:07.04 PM)
Dick Dale, the Surfaris, the Bel-Airs, etc.
Gordon Feiner (08:07.05 PM)
ah. ok.
Steven S. Long (08:07.10 PM)
OK, it looks like we've waited long enough, time for announcements! ;-)
Indiana Joe (08:07.12 PM)
Right.
Gordon Feiner (08:07.20 PM)
*makes note: steal Steves music collection*
Steven S. Long (08:07.38 PM)
*makes note: establish anti-Gordon music perimeter*
Gordon Feiner (08:07.56 PM)
foiled!
Steven S. Long (08:07.56 PM)
*but then loan him my Ocean Boulevard CD collections*
Gordon Feiner (08:08.06 PM)
that's fair.
Steven S. Long (08:08.42 PM)
First, as y'all know, last week or thereabouts we got two new things up in Ye Olde Online Storre: the hardcopy of HSEG (and the resultant bundles); and the PDF of CHAMPIONS BEYOND. So far both are well received, so don't forget to pick up your copies if you haven't already!
Second, this week Fred and I (mostly Fred at this point) have been finalizing STAR HERO. Just a couple hours ago he put the final in my inbox for final review, so I'll take care of that tomorrow.
Lord Liaden (08:09.41 PM)
That sounds pretty final. ;-)
Steven S. Long (08:09.55 PM)
In the meantime the cover art, by the highly talented Tyler Walpole, is up on the message boards! (And on my FB feed, if you prefer.) We really love it and I think most of y'all do too. ;-)
And the interior art is, from what I've seen, equally good. There's some excellent stuff in the book, very evocative, top-notch. And of course the text is first-rate, and the illustrative quotations very illustrative. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:11.07 PM)
even the Walter Gibson ones.
Steven S. Long (08:11.11 PM)
Third, with SH nearly off my desk I've been working on THE ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II! So far I've mostly been organizing notes and pre-existing material, so there's still plenty to doo.
do*
That Walter Gibson, he's a tricksy one. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:11.51 PM)
:-)
Steven S. Long (08:11.53 PM)
Today I finished off the Skills and Talents sections, including some expanded rules for "doing Skill Rolls like Attack Rolls" and Skill Quality.
Gordon Feiner (08:12.06 PM)
ooh, wicked cool.
Gregory (08:12.06 PM)
AWESOME!!!!
Steven S. Long (08:12.11 PM)
Tomorrow I dive headlong into Powers, which is likely to take awhile.
Gregory (08:12.22 PM)
AWESOME X2
Narf the Mouse (08:13.23 PM)
Coolness.
What about "Doing attack rolls like skill rolls"?
Steven S. Long (08:13.38 PM)
I expect this book'll be shorter than APG1, but it'll still have lots of enjoyable (or at least intriguing) stuff. ;-)
Narf -- that's in the Combat chapter. ;-)
Along with some stuff that ties into the Skills chapter, re: expanding and changing Weapon Familiarity.
There's a section on changing the cost of WF based on difficulty of using a weapon, and I'm going to do one where you change them all to rolls (like Swords 13-) for use in a combat-as-Skills system.
So in the end you can rejigger the game to all work whichever way you want. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:14.59 PM)
awesomesauce
Narf the Mouse (08:15.05 PM)
@Steve: Thanks.
I should also note that Hero is still the best generic RPG I've found.
Gregory (08:16.10 PM)
What will be in the Powers section this time around?
Gordon Feiner (08:16.12 PM)
Anything else on the near horizon?
huh... wonder if there's a way to turn Powers into Skills... Blast 15-....
HERO: The Skill Toolkit!
Steven S. Long (08:17.35 PM)
Gregory -- all sorts of stuff. First I'll toss in all the stuff from the Rules FAQ that's worth having in print. Then I'm going to include some optional new Powers like Object Creation, Probability Manipulation, and Time Manipulation. The theme here, as with APG1 stuff, is often "providing optional easy ways to do stuff you can already do, but with difficulty."
Gordon -- interesting idea. I've thought about that in the past, might be worth further pondering. ;-)
Narf the Mouse (08:18.14 PM)
Yaay @ Object Creation.
Steven S. Long (08:18.16 PM)
On the horizon -- let's see, I think BOOK OF THE EMPRESS is next, and then MYTHIC HERO, but I may have the order off a little.
Gregory (08:18.44 PM)
Any special (and new) goodies on the big baddie of a google dimensions?
Indiana Joe (08:18.55 PM)
Object creation would be good - Transform is kind of a kluge.
Steven S. Long (08:18.57 PM)
Nope, that's right, BotE, then MH, then Time Travel Hero to round out 2011.
Gordon Feiner (08:19.21 PM)
I'm so looking forward to BotE.
Steven S. Long (08:19.43 PM)
Gregory -- nothing really "new" per se, just lots of extra details: her superpowered lieutenants; her many types of soldiers; her vehicles; and of course capsule reviews of many dimensions that she rules.
Gordon Feiner (08:20.07 PM)
needs to be info on running a campaign from Her Side, emesaries and such.
Steven S. Long (08:20.20 PM)
The thing that most interests me about BotE, though, is this: explaining how, with all her vast resources, she can't effortlessly conquer Earth or any other dimension.
Lord Liaden (08:20.35 PM)
Steve -- I assume a WDYWTS thread will go up at the appropriate time?
Steven S. Long (08:20.40 PM)
LL -- absotively!
I didn't do one for SH because there wasn't really any need (or as it turned out any time), but for the rest of the year you should see one for all the books.
Gregory (08:21.30 PM)
What mythos are you looking to cover in MH?
Lord Liaden (08:21.33 PM)
Well, V'han is trying to govern near-infinity. That must take up a lot of her time, attention, and resources.
Steven S. Long (08:21.39 PM)
Though for MYTHIC HERO it's likely to be pretty slight; I already have so much slated for that book it'll be a miracle if I can get it done in time.
Gordon Feiner (08:21.53 PM)
I imagine V'han's court looks a bit like Amber.
Steven S. Long (08:21.58 PM)
LL -- exactly. Her Achilles' heel is "administration and bureaucracy." ;-)
Gregory (08:22.37 PM)
Trying to keep her own henchmen in line would be infinite task in itself!!
Lord Liaden (08:22.41 PM)
That's actually the thing I'm most interested in -- how she manages to do it. (I'll offer my suggestions when the venue is right.)
Gordon Feiner (08:22.53 PM)
"You can't possibly invade here. We've not filled out the proper forms, completed the necessary reports, and even done a basic survey!"
Steven S. Long (08:23.09 PM)
Gregory -- that's a loooong list. Of course I'll cover all the old standards (classical, Norse, Aztec, Chinese, et cetera), but I am hoping to really open this up and cover a bunch that have had little or no coverage for gaming (Finnish, Slavic/Russian, Hungarian, Hawaiian, Yoruban, and more).
LL -- I suspect your thinking along these lines will be similar to mine, in the broad strokes at least if not the specifics. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:24.28 PM)
When you think about it, comic-book Earths must have some sort of uber-jinx when it comes to invaders. They always crap out. :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:24.47 PM)
Earth's got a lotta luck.
Narf the Mouse (08:24.48 PM)
She probably has rivals herself - And fighting them is more important than taking over a backwater that hasn't even colonized its own solar system.
Steven S. Long (08:24.51 PM)
I love mythology, and I have what I think most folx would say is a laaarge library on the subject, so the trick with MH is to rein myself in and not try to take six months writing it.
LL -- that was sort of the message I was sending with the Qularr and the Gadroon... and then Cryptic came along and fouled up my plans. ;-)
Narf the Mouse (08:25.18 PM)
A backwater that, due to various dimensional convergences, would take far more resources relative to what she'd gain to be worth the bother.
Gordon Feiner (08:25.19 PM)
Oh, pertinent to last weeks conversation; I've managed to put together (or organize) a list of Cyberpunk books. A little over 200 of them.
Steven S. Long (08:25.29 PM)
Wow, that's pretty impressive Gordon!
Narf the Mouse (08:25.39 PM)
Cool.
Steven S. Long (08:25.51 PM)
I am currently struggling through a collection of John Shirley short stories, and may give up on it soon as not very relevant to gaming.
Narf the Mouse (08:26.03 PM)
Or at least, that's how I'd spin it. :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:26.08 PM)
Which collection?
Steven S. Long (08:26.33 PM)
HEATSEEKER.
Lord Liaden (08:26.34 PM)
I actually like V'han's machinations with the Gadroon and Qularr that Cryptic came up with. Shows her long-term-master-planner mode.
Steven S. Long (08:26.36 PM)
There
Gregory (08:26.40 PM)
What are some of the rough ideas you plan on getting into with Time Travel Hero?
Gordon Feiner (08:26.52 PM)
huh. I don't think I finished that one either.
Steven S. Long (08:26.55 PM)
have been a couple of good stories, but also a lot of what I sometimes call "literary wanking."
Gordon Feiner (08:27.31 PM)
Shirley does that. So does Sterling. Cadigan. Asimov. Bradbury. . . . I think most authors wank-literary at some point
Steven S. Long (08:27.41 PM)
Gregory -- well, basically I intend to take the SH chapter on Time Travel and expand it, then provide some overview of common historical eras visited by time travelers. Again, the trick is to rein myself in and not bite off more than I can chew.
Lord Liaden (08:28.31 PM)
Will the new Star HERO touch on the cyberpunk genre at all? Or will it basically be "See Cyber HERO?"
Steven S. Long (08:28.31 PM)
I need more Cyberpunk authors like William Gibson and the Sprawl Trilogy, or Walter Jon Williams and HARDWIRED, to give me stuff that works well for games.
LL -- it has a section on Cyberpunk in Chapter One. CYBER HERO is basically that section expanded to book length. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:29.04 PM)
Rucker's Ware Tetralogy would be interesting for gaming.
Burrito Boy (08:29.20 PM)
But John Shirley wrote some songs for BOC. That automatically makes him awesome in my book. :-P
Steven S. Long (08:29.21 PM)
But I took the computer programs and such out of SH and just said "see Cyber Hero," since I can cover 'em better there.
I have the Ware books; haven't read 'em yet.
Gregory (08:29.34 PM)
There is a whole slew of good time travel stories out there. It's tough to choose.
Gordon Feiner (08:29.41 PM)
Also, the Dryco series from Jack Womack
Steven S. Long (08:29.48 PM)
Not familiar with that one.
Lord Liaden (08:30.42 PM)
Steve -- will there be any reference in TTH to Hero Games's past or future official settings?
Gordon Feiner (08:30.51 PM)
Ambient - Terraplane - Elvissey - Heathern - Random Acts Of Senseless Violence - Going, Going, Gone :: are the books in the series.
good, but strange, and on the side of ultra-violence, which pretty much defines half the CP games I've ever been in
Steven S. Long (08:31.27 PM)
LL -- not sure at this point. It's possible; that was certainly one reason for setting up the Hero Universe. But I wouldn't expect to delve into 'em in any detail; I'll have enough to do summarizing actual historical eras.
Gordon -- lol, true enough. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:33.02 PM)
Hmm... the Hero Universe waxing/waning of magic might be a useful example of time-travel to eras when the ground rules of how things work may be different.
Gordon Feiner (08:33.12 PM)
I'll post my CP reading list to Star Hero in the near future. I'm desperately trying to remember the names of some books I read aeons ago.
Steven S. Long (08:33.42 PM)
I know that feeling, Gordon, though in my case it happens more with Fantasy. ;-)
Just started Pat Rothfuss's new novel, which he was kind enough to send me. That'll occupy my pleasure reading for quite some time. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:35.31 PM)
everyone has their fave genre where they can't remember the names of things :-p
Steven S. Long (08:36.11 PM)
Yup, Fantasy would be mine. That's why there are many more illustrative quotes in FH than SH... not that SH is really lacking. Just ask Fred; they drive him crazy. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:37.05 PM)
He knew the job was dangerous when he took it. :-p
Burrito Boy (08:37.12 PM)
Some of the books in the post-apocalypse series The Traveller were written by John Shirley.
Steven S. Long (08:37.17 PM)
Exactlly. ;-)
Haven't read those, BB. Will have to remember 'em if I ever delve back into the PA genre seriously.
OTOH, I think Fred is looking forward to MYTHIC HERO as much as I am. We were tossing around some cover ideas earlier this week just for fun.
Lord Liaden (08:39.36 PM)
I'd think just trying to narrow down what you could illustrate from mythology would be a challenge.
Gordon Feiner (08:40.11 PM)
cage match between Thor and Horus
Steven S. Long (08:40.21 PM)
LL -- oh, it is. Believe me. I can't even do the full art list in advance, because I won't know what I'm including for all the pantheons until I've done the research. I'll send Fred what I've already got or what's obvious, then the rest will come to him in dribs and drabs.
It's gonna be odd.
And no doubt will include a lot of art references to weird-ass stuff, statues, weapons, etc. from Wikipedia and elsewhere. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:42.21 PM)
So, Mythic Hero, color or B&W?
Steven S. Long (08:43.01 PM)
LL -- probably B&W, but it depends on what we think will sell. I'd *love* to make it color... but that's one gargantuan art bill.
Gordon Feiner (08:43.30 PM)
are Time Traveler, Cyber, and Mythic Hero going to come out as "sub-genre" books, or as their own, and Hard or Soft cover?
Steven S. Long (08:44.17 PM)
TTH and CH are both subgenre books for Star Hero, essentially, Mythic Hero sort of stands on its own as a system supplement, though I suppose it'll see the most use in FH. AFAIK right now, all softcover. If we made one color, it would probably be hardcover too.
Gordon Feiner (08:44.41 PM)
cool.
Lord Liaden (08:45.23 PM)
You just know that Champions players are gonna want to rumble with gods and divine monsters, though. :-D
Steven S. Long (08:45.33 PM)
Though I suppose some Champions games may get plenty of MH use.
LL -- great minds think alike, soft minds run together. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:46.08 PM)
My mind just runs, depending on the rain. :-(
Steven S. Long (08:46.20 PM)
Assuming Tezcatlipoca is held up as a standard (and I'm not necessarily saying that's going to be the case), I don't expect too much trouble from uppity Champions heroes. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:47.25 PM)
I saw what you did with Typhon in Book of Dragons, though. I don't care if I'm playing Superman's illegitimate nephew, I see that thing coming, I'm heading for the hills! :-o
Steven S. Long (08:47.54 PM)
Typhon will be re-appearing in MH... so will Jormungandr, Fenris, and the rest of their pals. }: )
Typhon may be a special case, though, given that he's a monster deliberately intended to tackle the entire Greek pantheon at once.
The Midgardsormr is probably just as being a threat, even though he only killed one god. ;-)
Burrito Boy (08:49.00 PM)
You had me at Fenris.
Lord Liaden (08:49.26 PM)
Typhon vs. Astron -- now that would be a cage match. And pretty soon we'll be able to play it!
Gordon Feiner (08:49.50 PM)
Astron is awesome, kind of a pain in the @$$ though.
Steven S. Long (08:49.51 PM)
The Norse section is by far my favorite in the book; it's already over half written I think, though no character sheets yet.
Burrito Boy (08:50.05 PM)
Wait. I just noticed the mention of Tezcatlipoca. Any chance of Tlaloc getting in there?
Steven S. Long (08:50.11 PM)
LL -- ha! That sounds like a con event. Tell Dave Mattingly. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:50.21 PM)
wait, character sheets... how far off is Mythic? end of 11?
Steven S. Long (08:50.31 PM)
BB -- oh yeah. The whole Aztec pantheon. I have more books on Aztec mythology and cviliization than most libraries. ;-)
Burrito Boy (08:50.54 PM)
Send them to me when you're done. :-)
Steven S. Long (08:51.06 PM)
Gordon -- it's after APG2 and BotE. So I'll probably be working on it August-September-October, in there. IIRC we arranged the schedule to give me two months to work on it.
BB - sorry, you'll have to buy the book.
Gordon Feiner (08:51.19 PM)
cool.
Steven S. Long (08:51.46 PM)
Though we may do something we're going to do soon with CHAMPIONS VILLAINS -- sell excerpted PDFs of specific pantheons (or in CV's case, specific villains or groups).
Burrito Boy (08:51.56 PM)
Buy the book? I knew there had to be a catch.
Steven S. Long (08:52.03 PM)
Always. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:52.28 PM)
Selling excerpts? Mind explaining the thinking behind that?
Steven S. Long (08:52.43 PM)
One of the hard parts with MH will be to prevent myself from retelling dozens of myths. ;-)
LL -- sure. Like everything else we do, it's an attempt to earn more money. ;-) Someone may not want all of CV2, but just a couple of teams, so this way they can buy them. The price is proportionately greater than their share of the book, so in effect buying the whole book could be considered a "bundle deal." ;-)
The customer gets what he wants, we get what we want, everybody wins! :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:54.24 PM)
except Dr. Claw - he never wins
Lord Liaden (08:54.38 PM)
Following up the CV example -- would everything eventually be excerpted? If not, what's the criterion for choosing?
Steven S. Long (08:54.40 PM)
Well, yeah, but Dr. Claw deserves what he gets, the bastard.
Burrito Boy (08:55.22 PM)
I'd happily buy just the Aztec pantheon.
Steven S. Long (08:55.24 PM)
LL -- not everything. Just what we think there might be a demand for that we can easily create. The first one we did was CASTLES & SIEGES, and while it hasn't blown the doors off the barn it's brought in enough money to justify its existence.
Burrito Boy (08:55.37 PM)
Well, the Norse too.
Steven S. Long (08:55.48 PM)
You will also want several others BB. Better just buy the book. :)
Burrito Boy (08:56.14 PM)
:lol: Nice try.
Steven S. Long (08:56.26 PM)
Trust me... you'll see. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:57.08 PM)
The Norse myths are probably among the easiest for fans of adventure games to relate to, which may be why they're such a popular subject.
Steven S. Long (08:57.42 PM)
LL -- that, and (a) they are easily accessible in English, (b) form a coherent story pattern, (c) are already deeply ingrained into our culture, and (d) are Just Plain Awesome. :-D
Many Asian myth-cycles are as detailed or moreso, but are harder for Westerners to read/grasp.
Lord Liaden (08:58.17 PM)
For my part, I'm delighted you're treating some of the more "obscure" (to modern Western audiences) bodies of myth.
Steven S. Long (08:58.20 PM)
Hell, even Celtic Mythology is difficult to approach compared to Greek or Norse.
Gordon Feiner (08:58.29 PM)
giant wolves, massive snakes, and a guy with a hammer hitting things. Pretty much defines fantasy gaming...
Steven S. Long (08:58.39 PM)
And Chinese myth... good lord, hacking my way through that thicket's gonna be tough.
Gordon -- lol. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:59.19 PM)
Steve -- why do you think the Chinese invented the world's biggest bureaucracy? ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:59.32 PM)
lotta hells
Steven S. Long (08:59.39 PM)
Exactly. Too much population over too great a period of time = mythological confusion.
Burrito Boy (09:00.41 PM)
Celtic mythology too? Maybe I will buy the book.
Steven S. Long (09:00.48 PM)
I need a Chinese Snorri Sturluson or Ovid to come along and write a definitive version that can easily be grasped by my non-Chinese brain. ;-)
Lord Liaden (09:00.57 PM)
The Celtic thing with the guy getting so enraged his eye pops out of his head -- that's just creepy.
Steven S. Long (09:00.59 PM)
BB -- I told, you trust me. You want the whole book. :-)
Gordon Feiner (09:01.01 PM)
any African mythologies going to be in there?
Steven S. Long (09:01.26 PM)
Gordon -- yes. Yoruban for sure, and Voodoo (which has heavy African elements of course). And Egyptian, though that's not what you were getting at I suspect.
The trick is to find mythoi that are large and comprehensive enough to merit full descriptions and write-ups in the book.
I don't want one or two gods here or there from a dozen different tribes.
Lord Liaden (09:02.14 PM)
Egypt's long history makes it tricky to come up with a definitive gameable version.
Burrito Boy (09:02.20 PM)
One of these days, Steve, you're gonna be wrong and I hope I'm there to see it.
Steven S. Long (09:02.23 PM)
There's a great book on Yoruba mythology in English, so that's easy. If I can find a similar book for, say, Zulus or Ashanti or Masai, bingo.
Gordon Feiner (09:02.25 PM)
South Africa has a pretty rich tradition from what I gather... but I haven't gathered much
Steven S. Long (09:02.42 PM)
LL -- true. Similar to the Chinese problem in some aspects, though not nearly as hard to sort through.
Burrito Boy (09:02.53 PM)
Told you the hyper drive was fixed indeed.
Gordon Feiner (09:02.56 PM)
I've seen Steve be wrong .... :-)
Steven S. Long (09:03.00 PM)
BB -- I'm never wrong, I am just occasionally misinterpreted. ;-)
Lord Liaden (09:04.03 PM)
Dang, now I have to rephrase my forum signature! :-p
Steven S. Long (09:05.13 PM)
LL -- either version works. :-)
OK, folx, I think it's time for me to sign off. Have a great Memorial Day Weekend and I'll see you next week!
Good evening, all and sundry. ;-)
Indiana Joe (07:58.25 PM)
Hi Steve
Gregory (07:58.27 PM)
small group tonight!
Steven S. Long (07:58.39 PM)
Yup, small group so far... perhaps some more folx will show up soonly.
Indiana Joe (07:58.52 PM)
People may be getting ready for the holiday.
Steven S. Long (07:59.15 PM)
Could be that too. I keep forgetting Monday is a No Mail Day.
Gregory (07:59.54 PM)
and a lot of people take friday or a half a day off too
Steven S. Long (08:00.10 PM)
Day off? What the hell is a day off? ;-)
Gregory (08:00.19 PM)
:-)
Lord Liaden (08:00.47 PM)
Can I be sundry? :-)
Indiana Joe (08:00.59 PM)
I normally get Fridays off (because I hit 40 hours Thursday afternoon), unless it's the week before a holiday week. (Normally. This week is an exception.)
Steven S. Long (08:01.36 PM)
I had a friend who used to do that, IJ -- he worked 10 hours per day Mon-Thurs so he always had Fri off.
Lord Liaden (08:01.42 PM)
I'm in the GWN -- what's the holiday in the States?
Steven S. Long (08:01.49 PM)
Memorial Day.
Narf the Mouse (08:01.51 PM)
Hi, Steve
Gregory (08:01.54 PM)
Same here on that schedule
Steven S. Long (08:01.55 PM)
Hi Narf!
Indiana Joe (08:02.05 PM)
Yeah, that's my schedule.
Gordon Feiner (08:02.05 PM)
hey Steve.
Steven S. Long (08:02.15 PM)
Hey Gordon!
We'll give it a few more minutes, just in case anyone else decides to join the party. ;-)
In the meantime I'll keep listening to all the music I uploaded to my computer yesterday.
Indiana Joe (08:03.59 PM)
Most holidays we do early production on Fridays, but not this time. Not sure why.
Gordon Feiner (08:04.19 PM)
how goes the music hunt?
Steven S. Long (08:04.48 PM)
Pretty good -- I have polished off most of one list (Beach Music). The real toughie will be when I tackle my Seventies lists, which are a muddle.
Indiana Joe (08:04.56 PM)
http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/ :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:05.06 PM)
I'm dying to know what's in "Beach Music"
Steven S. Long (08:05.27 PM)
Beach Music is a regional category of music local to the Carolinas and Virginia, mostly.
Gordon Feiner (08:05.41 PM)
ooh...
Indiana Joe (08:05.43 PM)
Ah, it's distinct from Surf Music.
Steven S. Long (08:06.10 PM)
It's hard to define; the best definition is probably, "music that was on jukeboxes in Myrtle Beach in the Fifties and Sixties, plus later music in that style." Heavier on keys and horns than on guitar in most respects.
Yes, distinct from Surf Music, which is the Beach Boys, Jan & Dean, etc.
Gregory (08:06.46 PM)
I prefer Allan Sherman Camp Granada myself :-}
Steven S. Long (08:06.48 PM)
Beach Music is groups like the Tams, the Embers, the Catalinas, the Clovers, the Platters, the Band of Oz.
Indiana Joe (08:07.04 PM)
Dick Dale, the Surfaris, the Bel-Airs, etc.
Gordon Feiner (08:07.05 PM)
ah. ok.
Steven S. Long (08:07.10 PM)
OK, it looks like we've waited long enough, time for announcements! ;-)
Indiana Joe (08:07.12 PM)
Right.
Gordon Feiner (08:07.20 PM)
*makes note: steal Steves music collection*
Steven S. Long (08:07.38 PM)
*makes note: establish anti-Gordon music perimeter*
Gordon Feiner (08:07.56 PM)
foiled!
Steven S. Long (08:07.56 PM)
*but then loan him my Ocean Boulevard CD collections*
Gordon Feiner (08:08.06 PM)
that's fair.
Steven S. Long (08:08.42 PM)
First, as y'all know, last week or thereabouts we got two new things up in Ye Olde Online Storre: the hardcopy of HSEG (and the resultant bundles); and the PDF of CHAMPIONS BEYOND. So far both are well received, so don't forget to pick up your copies if you haven't already!
Second, this week Fred and I (mostly Fred at this point) have been finalizing STAR HERO. Just a couple hours ago he put the final in my inbox for final review, so I'll take care of that tomorrow.
Lord Liaden (08:09.41 PM)
That sounds pretty final. ;-)
Steven S. Long (08:09.55 PM)
In the meantime the cover art, by the highly talented Tyler Walpole, is up on the message boards! (And on my FB feed, if you prefer.) We really love it and I think most of y'all do too. ;-)
And the interior art is, from what I've seen, equally good. There's some excellent stuff in the book, very evocative, top-notch. And of course the text is first-rate, and the illustrative quotations very illustrative. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:11.07 PM)
even the Walter Gibson ones.
Steven S. Long (08:11.11 PM)
Third, with SH nearly off my desk I've been working on THE ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II! So far I've mostly been organizing notes and pre-existing material, so there's still plenty to doo.
do*
That Walter Gibson, he's a tricksy one. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:11.51 PM)
:-)
Steven S. Long (08:11.53 PM)
Today I finished off the Skills and Talents sections, including some expanded rules for "doing Skill Rolls like Attack Rolls" and Skill Quality.
Gordon Feiner (08:12.06 PM)
ooh, wicked cool.
Gregory (08:12.06 PM)
AWESOME!!!!
Steven S. Long (08:12.11 PM)
Tomorrow I dive headlong into Powers, which is likely to take awhile.
Gregory (08:12.22 PM)
AWESOME X2
Narf the Mouse (08:13.23 PM)
Coolness.
What about "Doing attack rolls like skill rolls"?
Steven S. Long (08:13.38 PM)
I expect this book'll be shorter than APG1, but it'll still have lots of enjoyable (or at least intriguing) stuff. ;-)
Narf -- that's in the Combat chapter. ;-)
Along with some stuff that ties into the Skills chapter, re: expanding and changing Weapon Familiarity.
There's a section on changing the cost of WF based on difficulty of using a weapon, and I'm going to do one where you change them all to rolls (like Swords 13-) for use in a combat-as-Skills system.
So in the end you can rejigger the game to all work whichever way you want. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:14.59 PM)
awesomesauce
Narf the Mouse (08:15.05 PM)
@Steve: Thanks.
I should also note that Hero is still the best generic RPG I've found.
Gregory (08:16.10 PM)
What will be in the Powers section this time around?
Gordon Feiner (08:16.12 PM)
Anything else on the near horizon?
huh... wonder if there's a way to turn Powers into Skills... Blast 15-....
HERO: The Skill Toolkit!
Steven S. Long (08:17.35 PM)
Gregory -- all sorts of stuff. First I'll toss in all the stuff from the Rules FAQ that's worth having in print. Then I'm going to include some optional new Powers like Object Creation, Probability Manipulation, and Time Manipulation. The theme here, as with APG1 stuff, is often "providing optional easy ways to do stuff you can already do, but with difficulty."
Gordon -- interesting idea. I've thought about that in the past, might be worth further pondering. ;-)
Narf the Mouse (08:18.14 PM)
Yaay @ Object Creation.
Steven S. Long (08:18.16 PM)
On the horizon -- let's see, I think BOOK OF THE EMPRESS is next, and then MYTHIC HERO, but I may have the order off a little.
Gregory (08:18.44 PM)
Any special (and new) goodies on the big baddie of a google dimensions?
Indiana Joe (08:18.55 PM)
Object creation would be good - Transform is kind of a kluge.
Steven S. Long (08:18.57 PM)
Nope, that's right, BotE, then MH, then Time Travel Hero to round out 2011.
Gordon Feiner (08:19.21 PM)
I'm so looking forward to BotE.
Steven S. Long (08:19.43 PM)
Gregory -- nothing really "new" per se, just lots of extra details: her superpowered lieutenants; her many types of soldiers; her vehicles; and of course capsule reviews of many dimensions that she rules.
Gordon Feiner (08:20.07 PM)
needs to be info on running a campaign from Her Side, emesaries and such.
Steven S. Long (08:20.20 PM)
The thing that most interests me about BotE, though, is this: explaining how, with all her vast resources, she can't effortlessly conquer Earth or any other dimension.
Lord Liaden (08:20.35 PM)
Steve -- I assume a WDYWTS thread will go up at the appropriate time?
Steven S. Long (08:20.40 PM)
LL -- absotively!
I didn't do one for SH because there wasn't really any need (or as it turned out any time), but for the rest of the year you should see one for all the books.
Gregory (08:21.30 PM)
What mythos are you looking to cover in MH?
Lord Liaden (08:21.33 PM)
Well, V'han is trying to govern near-infinity. That must take up a lot of her time, attention, and resources.
Steven S. Long (08:21.39 PM)
Though for MYTHIC HERO it's likely to be pretty slight; I already have so much slated for that book it'll be a miracle if I can get it done in time.
Gordon Feiner (08:21.53 PM)
I imagine V'han's court looks a bit like Amber.
Steven S. Long (08:21.58 PM)
LL -- exactly. Her Achilles' heel is "administration and bureaucracy." ;-)
Gregory (08:22.37 PM)
Trying to keep her own henchmen in line would be infinite task in itself!!
Lord Liaden (08:22.41 PM)
That's actually the thing I'm most interested in -- how she manages to do it. (I'll offer my suggestions when the venue is right.)
Gordon Feiner (08:22.53 PM)
"You can't possibly invade here. We've not filled out the proper forms, completed the necessary reports, and even done a basic survey!"
Steven S. Long (08:23.09 PM)
Gregory -- that's a loooong list. Of course I'll cover all the old standards (classical, Norse, Aztec, Chinese, et cetera), but I am hoping to really open this up and cover a bunch that have had little or no coverage for gaming (Finnish, Slavic/Russian, Hungarian, Hawaiian, Yoruban, and more).
LL -- I suspect your thinking along these lines will be similar to mine, in the broad strokes at least if not the specifics. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:24.28 PM)
When you think about it, comic-book Earths must have some sort of uber-jinx when it comes to invaders. They always crap out. :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:24.47 PM)
Earth's got a lotta luck.
Narf the Mouse (08:24.48 PM)
She probably has rivals herself - And fighting them is more important than taking over a backwater that hasn't even colonized its own solar system.
Steven S. Long (08:24.51 PM)
I love mythology, and I have what I think most folx would say is a laaarge library on the subject, so the trick with MH is to rein myself in and not try to take six months writing it.
LL -- that was sort of the message I was sending with the Qularr and the Gadroon... and then Cryptic came along and fouled up my plans. ;-)
Narf the Mouse (08:25.18 PM)
A backwater that, due to various dimensional convergences, would take far more resources relative to what she'd gain to be worth the bother.
Gordon Feiner (08:25.19 PM)
Oh, pertinent to last weeks conversation; I've managed to put together (or organize) a list of Cyberpunk books. A little over 200 of them.
Steven S. Long (08:25.29 PM)
Wow, that's pretty impressive Gordon!
Narf the Mouse (08:25.39 PM)
Cool.
Steven S. Long (08:25.51 PM)
I am currently struggling through a collection of John Shirley short stories, and may give up on it soon as not very relevant to gaming.
Narf the Mouse (08:26.03 PM)
Or at least, that's how I'd spin it. :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:26.08 PM)
Which collection?
Steven S. Long (08:26.33 PM)
HEATSEEKER.
Lord Liaden (08:26.34 PM)
I actually like V'han's machinations with the Gadroon and Qularr that Cryptic came up with. Shows her long-term-master-planner mode.
Steven S. Long (08:26.36 PM)
There
Gregory (08:26.40 PM)
What are some of the rough ideas you plan on getting into with Time Travel Hero?
Gordon Feiner (08:26.52 PM)
huh. I don't think I finished that one either.
Steven S. Long (08:26.55 PM)
have been a couple of good stories, but also a lot of what I sometimes call "literary wanking."
Gordon Feiner (08:27.31 PM)
Shirley does that. So does Sterling. Cadigan. Asimov. Bradbury. . . . I think most authors wank-literary at some point
Steven S. Long (08:27.41 PM)
Gregory -- well, basically I intend to take the SH chapter on Time Travel and expand it, then provide some overview of common historical eras visited by time travelers. Again, the trick is to rein myself in and not bite off more than I can chew.
Lord Liaden (08:28.31 PM)
Will the new Star HERO touch on the cyberpunk genre at all? Or will it basically be "See Cyber HERO?"
Steven S. Long (08:28.31 PM)
I need more Cyberpunk authors like William Gibson and the Sprawl Trilogy, or Walter Jon Williams and HARDWIRED, to give me stuff that works well for games.
LL -- it has a section on Cyberpunk in Chapter One. CYBER HERO is basically that section expanded to book length. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:29.04 PM)
Rucker's Ware Tetralogy would be interesting for gaming.
Burrito Boy (08:29.20 PM)
But John Shirley wrote some songs for BOC. That automatically makes him awesome in my book. :-P
Steven S. Long (08:29.21 PM)
But I took the computer programs and such out of SH and just said "see Cyber Hero," since I can cover 'em better there.
I have the Ware books; haven't read 'em yet.
Gregory (08:29.34 PM)
There is a whole slew of good time travel stories out there. It's tough to choose.
Gordon Feiner (08:29.41 PM)
Also, the Dryco series from Jack Womack
Steven S. Long (08:29.48 PM)
Not familiar with that one.
Lord Liaden (08:30.42 PM)
Steve -- will there be any reference in TTH to Hero Games's past or future official settings?
Gordon Feiner (08:30.51 PM)
Ambient - Terraplane - Elvissey - Heathern - Random Acts Of Senseless Violence - Going, Going, Gone :: are the books in the series.
good, but strange, and on the side of ultra-violence, which pretty much defines half the CP games I've ever been in
Steven S. Long (08:31.27 PM)
LL -- not sure at this point. It's possible; that was certainly one reason for setting up the Hero Universe. But I wouldn't expect to delve into 'em in any detail; I'll have enough to do summarizing actual historical eras.
Gordon -- lol, true enough. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:33.02 PM)
Hmm... the Hero Universe waxing/waning of magic might be a useful example of time-travel to eras when the ground rules of how things work may be different.
Gordon Feiner (08:33.12 PM)
I'll post my CP reading list to Star Hero in the near future. I'm desperately trying to remember the names of some books I read aeons ago.
Steven S. Long (08:33.42 PM)
I know that feeling, Gordon, though in my case it happens more with Fantasy. ;-)
Just started Pat Rothfuss's new novel, which he was kind enough to send me. That'll occupy my pleasure reading for quite some time. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:35.31 PM)
everyone has their fave genre where they can't remember the names of things :-p
Steven S. Long (08:36.11 PM)
Yup, Fantasy would be mine. That's why there are many more illustrative quotes in FH than SH... not that SH is really lacking. Just ask Fred; they drive him crazy. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:37.05 PM)
He knew the job was dangerous when he took it. :-p
Burrito Boy (08:37.12 PM)
Some of the books in the post-apocalypse series The Traveller were written by John Shirley.
Steven S. Long (08:37.17 PM)
Exactlly. ;-)
Haven't read those, BB. Will have to remember 'em if I ever delve back into the PA genre seriously.
OTOH, I think Fred is looking forward to MYTHIC HERO as much as I am. We were tossing around some cover ideas earlier this week just for fun.
Lord Liaden (08:39.36 PM)
I'd think just trying to narrow down what you could illustrate from mythology would be a challenge.
Gordon Feiner (08:40.11 PM)
cage match between Thor and Horus
Steven S. Long (08:40.21 PM)
LL -- oh, it is. Believe me. I can't even do the full art list in advance, because I won't know what I'm including for all the pantheons until I've done the research. I'll send Fred what I've already got or what's obvious, then the rest will come to him in dribs and drabs.
It's gonna be odd.
And no doubt will include a lot of art references to weird-ass stuff, statues, weapons, etc. from Wikipedia and elsewhere. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:42.21 PM)
So, Mythic Hero, color or B&W?
Steven S. Long (08:43.01 PM)
LL -- probably B&W, but it depends on what we think will sell. I'd *love* to make it color... but that's one gargantuan art bill.
Gordon Feiner (08:43.30 PM)
are Time Traveler, Cyber, and Mythic Hero going to come out as "sub-genre" books, or as their own, and Hard or Soft cover?
Steven S. Long (08:44.17 PM)
TTH and CH are both subgenre books for Star Hero, essentially, Mythic Hero sort of stands on its own as a system supplement, though I suppose it'll see the most use in FH. AFAIK right now, all softcover. If we made one color, it would probably be hardcover too.
Gordon Feiner (08:44.41 PM)
cool.
Lord Liaden (08:45.23 PM)
You just know that Champions players are gonna want to rumble with gods and divine monsters, though. :-D
Steven S. Long (08:45.33 PM)
Though I suppose some Champions games may get plenty of MH use.
LL -- great minds think alike, soft minds run together. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:46.08 PM)
My mind just runs, depending on the rain. :-(
Steven S. Long (08:46.20 PM)
Assuming Tezcatlipoca is held up as a standard (and I'm not necessarily saying that's going to be the case), I don't expect too much trouble from uppity Champions heroes. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:47.25 PM)
I saw what you did with Typhon in Book of Dragons, though. I don't care if I'm playing Superman's illegitimate nephew, I see that thing coming, I'm heading for the hills! :-o
Steven S. Long (08:47.54 PM)
Typhon will be re-appearing in MH... so will Jormungandr, Fenris, and the rest of their pals. }: )
Typhon may be a special case, though, given that he's a monster deliberately intended to tackle the entire Greek pantheon at once.
The Midgardsormr is probably just as being a threat, even though he only killed one god. ;-)
Burrito Boy (08:49.00 PM)
You had me at Fenris.
Lord Liaden (08:49.26 PM)
Typhon vs. Astron -- now that would be a cage match. And pretty soon we'll be able to play it!
Gordon Feiner (08:49.50 PM)
Astron is awesome, kind of a pain in the @$$ though.
Steven S. Long (08:49.51 PM)
The Norse section is by far my favorite in the book; it's already over half written I think, though no character sheets yet.
Burrito Boy (08:50.05 PM)
Wait. I just noticed the mention of Tezcatlipoca. Any chance of Tlaloc getting in there?
Steven S. Long (08:50.11 PM)
LL -- ha! That sounds like a con event. Tell Dave Mattingly. ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:50.21 PM)
wait, character sheets... how far off is Mythic? end of 11?
Steven S. Long (08:50.31 PM)
BB -- oh yeah. The whole Aztec pantheon. I have more books on Aztec mythology and cviliization than most libraries. ;-)
Burrito Boy (08:50.54 PM)
Send them to me when you're done. :-)
Steven S. Long (08:51.06 PM)
Gordon -- it's after APG2 and BotE. So I'll probably be working on it August-September-October, in there. IIRC we arranged the schedule to give me two months to work on it.
BB - sorry, you'll have to buy the book.
Gordon Feiner (08:51.19 PM)
cool.
Steven S. Long (08:51.46 PM)
Though we may do something we're going to do soon with CHAMPIONS VILLAINS -- sell excerpted PDFs of specific pantheons (or in CV's case, specific villains or groups).
Burrito Boy (08:51.56 PM)
Buy the book? I knew there had to be a catch.
Steven S. Long (08:52.03 PM)
Always. }: )
Lord Liaden (08:52.28 PM)
Selling excerpts? Mind explaining the thinking behind that?
Steven S. Long (08:52.43 PM)
One of the hard parts with MH will be to prevent myself from retelling dozens of myths. ;-)
LL -- sure. Like everything else we do, it's an attempt to earn more money. ;-) Someone may not want all of CV2, but just a couple of teams, so this way they can buy them. The price is proportionately greater than their share of the book, so in effect buying the whole book could be considered a "bundle deal." ;-)
The customer gets what he wants, we get what we want, everybody wins! :-)
Gordon Feiner (08:54.24 PM)
except Dr. Claw - he never wins
Lord Liaden (08:54.38 PM)
Following up the CV example -- would everything eventually be excerpted? If not, what's the criterion for choosing?
Steven S. Long (08:54.40 PM)
Well, yeah, but Dr. Claw deserves what he gets, the bastard.
Burrito Boy (08:55.22 PM)
I'd happily buy just the Aztec pantheon.
Steven S. Long (08:55.24 PM)
LL -- not everything. Just what we think there might be a demand for that we can easily create. The first one we did was CASTLES & SIEGES, and while it hasn't blown the doors off the barn it's brought in enough money to justify its existence.
Burrito Boy (08:55.37 PM)
Well, the Norse too.
Steven S. Long (08:55.48 PM)
You will also want several others BB. Better just buy the book. :)
Burrito Boy (08:56.14 PM)
:lol: Nice try.
Steven S. Long (08:56.26 PM)
Trust me... you'll see. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:57.08 PM)
The Norse myths are probably among the easiest for fans of adventure games to relate to, which may be why they're such a popular subject.
Steven S. Long (08:57.42 PM)
LL -- that, and (a) they are easily accessible in English, (b) form a coherent story pattern, (c) are already deeply ingrained into our culture, and (d) are Just Plain Awesome. :-D
Many Asian myth-cycles are as detailed or moreso, but are harder for Westerners to read/grasp.
Lord Liaden (08:58.17 PM)
For my part, I'm delighted you're treating some of the more "obscure" (to modern Western audiences) bodies of myth.
Steven S. Long (08:58.20 PM)
Hell, even Celtic Mythology is difficult to approach compared to Greek or Norse.
Gordon Feiner (08:58.29 PM)
giant wolves, massive snakes, and a guy with a hammer hitting things. Pretty much defines fantasy gaming...
Steven S. Long (08:58.39 PM)
And Chinese myth... good lord, hacking my way through that thicket's gonna be tough.
Gordon -- lol. ;-)
Lord Liaden (08:59.19 PM)
Steve -- why do you think the Chinese invented the world's biggest bureaucracy? ;-)
Gordon Feiner (08:59.32 PM)
lotta hells
Steven S. Long (08:59.39 PM)
Exactly. Too much population over too great a period of time = mythological confusion.
Burrito Boy (09:00.41 PM)
Celtic mythology too? Maybe I will buy the book.
Steven S. Long (09:00.48 PM)
I need a Chinese Snorri Sturluson or Ovid to come along and write a definitive version that can easily be grasped by my non-Chinese brain. ;-)
Lord Liaden (09:00.57 PM)
The Celtic thing with the guy getting so enraged his eye pops out of his head -- that's just creepy.
Steven S. Long (09:00.59 PM)
BB -- I told, you trust me. You want the whole book. :-)
Gordon Feiner (09:01.01 PM)
any African mythologies going to be in there?
Steven S. Long (09:01.26 PM)
Gordon -- yes. Yoruban for sure, and Voodoo (which has heavy African elements of course). And Egyptian, though that's not what you were getting at I suspect.
The trick is to find mythoi that are large and comprehensive enough to merit full descriptions and write-ups in the book.
I don't want one or two gods here or there from a dozen different tribes.
Lord Liaden (09:02.14 PM)
Egypt's long history makes it tricky to come up with a definitive gameable version.
Burrito Boy (09:02.20 PM)
One of these days, Steve, you're gonna be wrong and I hope I'm there to see it.
Steven S. Long (09:02.23 PM)
There's a great book on Yoruba mythology in English, so that's easy. If I can find a similar book for, say, Zulus or Ashanti or Masai, bingo.
Gordon Feiner (09:02.25 PM)
South Africa has a pretty rich tradition from what I gather... but I haven't gathered much
Steven S. Long (09:02.42 PM)
LL -- true. Similar to the Chinese problem in some aspects, though not nearly as hard to sort through.
Burrito Boy (09:02.53 PM)
Told you the hyper drive was fixed indeed.
Gordon Feiner (09:02.56 PM)
I've seen Steve be wrong .... :-)
Steven S. Long (09:03.00 PM)
BB -- I'm never wrong, I am just occasionally misinterpreted. ;-)
Lord Liaden (09:04.03 PM)
Dang, now I have to rephrase my forum signature! :-p
Steven S. Long (09:05.13 PM)
LL -- either version works. :-)
OK, folx, I think it's time for me to sign off. Have a great Memorial Day Weekend and I'll see you next week!