Lord Liaden
Oct 27th, '11, 06:30 PM
Steven S. Long (07:58.09 PM)
Bon soir, mes amies!
Narf the Mouse (07:58.13 PM)
*Goes into a ramble on kids these days and no patience, why in my day, we waited hours to connect to a local BBS*... :D
Lord Liaden (07:58.14 PM)
Hi, IJ.
Narf the Mouse (07:58.25 PM)
Hi, Steve
Lord Liaden (07:58.34 PM)
Steve's gone continental on us. ;)
Narf the Mouse (07:58.36 PM)
Hi, IJ, MM
Steven S. Long (07:58.41 PM)
Hope everyone's doing well tonight. ;)
Gordon Feiner (07:58.51 PM)
hey Steve.
Narf the Mouse (07:58.56 PM)
Well, slight headache, but that's common after hot dogs.
Steven S. Long (07:59.00 PM)
Hey Narf, Gordon!
Lord Liaden (07:59.04 PM)
Actually, I'm hoping this will be an upswing on my day.
Matthew Martin (07:59.12 PM)
Hello, Narf.
Hello, Steve.
Steven S. Long (07:59.26 PM)
Hey Matthew.
Lord Liaden (07:59.34 PM)
Matthew!
Indiana Joe (07:59.51 PM)
Looking forward to getting my latest Hero order fufiled.
Narf the Mouse (08:00.07 PM)
APGII? Bought it myself, book and .pdf.
Indiana Joe (08:00.27 PM)
Yes, among other things, including Star Hero.
Steven S. Long (08:00.37 PM)
As usual we'll give it a few minutes for stragglers to arrive before I make the announcements. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:00.54 PM)
I need to buy Hero books soon...
Matthew Martin (08:01.04 PM)
I bought Star Hero a couple of weeks ago from the Fraim brothers. It arrived the same day as my copy of LUG's Star Trek: TOS RPG. :)
Steven S. Long (08:01.27 PM)
Fine books, the both of them, with quality writers involved. :)
Matthew Martin (08:01.54 PM)
I referred to it mentally as a Double Dose of Full-Color Steve Long Sci-Fi Goodness. :)
Steven S. Long (08:02.08 PM)
There ya go! :)
Though I don't recall whether Jim Cambias contributed to the TOS RPG core book, it might be Double Dose o' Cambias as well.
I know he did some supplements, but not sure he did core book work for the ST RPGs.
Matthew Martin (08:03.16 PM)
He _is_ in there. So's Ken Hite, who is always worthwhile. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:03.40 PM)
gah, hate it when I leave a record on the player and end up with one in my hand to put on... then I get to the do One Hand Vinyl Shuffle
Steven S. Long (08:03.41 PM)
Yup, Ken was Line Developer for the TOS line, as I was for DS9. We each think we had the best job at the company. ;)
I feel your pain, Gordon... though sadly I haven't had a turntable set up in years.
Lord Liaden (08:04.06 PM)
Does everybody in the RPG business know everybody else?
Matthew Martin (08:04.08 PM)
I'd say you had the better one, but it's close. :)
LL--small business. :)
Steven S. Long (08:04.59 PM)
LL -- not quite, but it can seem that way sometimes. It's a fairly small industry; in fact, I've been told that there are more astronauts in the space program than there are full-time RPG designers, though I think that probably depends on definitions.
Gordon Feiner (08:05.12 PM)
USB players a cheap, and eay to hook up. Not quite the pure quality of a Technique, but good still.
Steven S. Long (08:05.21 PM)
In this case it's a matter of building on existing relationships. I hired Jim to help write SH because I knew the quality of his work from the ST RPGs.
OK, I'd say we've waited long enough, time for... announcements!
First, as several of you just mentioned, APG2 is now available! Pick up your copy today if you ain't already. ;)
Second, THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS is currently in layout! Every day the Fraim Brothers (who are doing all the art for the book) send in another piece or three, and I have to say that so far they're doing their usual phenomenal job. Sometimes I'd swear they're reading my mind, they get so close to what I was thinking when I spec'd out a piece.
Just saw a great one yesterday of V'han's top command planning a dimensional invasion, mwah hah hah hah hah. :)
Third, right now I'm almost entirely focused on MYTHIC HERO! Just today I *finally* finished the chapter on American Indian mythologies. It topped out at over 30,000 words, for that one chapter alone. This book's gonna be a monster. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:08.19 PM)
It's in the hands of TOP... MEN.
Gordon Feiner (08:08.48 PM)
if you have to cut MyH - cut it so we can get MH2 next year :)
Steven S. Long (08:08.50 PM)
I spent the rest of the day working on Armenian mythology, and am nearly done (it being a far less detailed and complex topic than most mythoi). In fact, I'll probably finish it up tomorrow 'fore headin' off for InDesign class.
Gordon -- the thought of splitting the book in two, as with the Asian Bestiaries, has crossed my mind. ;)
Narf the Mouse (08:09.31 PM)
...But then the finished produced wouldn't stop a bullet. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:09.32 PM)
I can't see how that could wrong....
Lord Liaden (08:09.41 PM)
If you did split it, what would be the most convenient dividing line?
Steven S. Long (08:09.54 PM)
After Armenian is done, depending on how I feel I'll either do Assyro-Babylonian or Aztec/Mayan. I need to do some preliminary research to decide whether I want to combine A-Bab with Sumerian into "Mesopotamian Mythology."
LL -- not sure. The commercial consideration is "Greek in one volume, Norse in the other." So probably somewhere around Japanese or Hawaiian, alphabetically speaking.
But hopefully that won't be necessary. I'd rather not do it.
I'm also nearly finished with the chapter on Norse mythology (my favorite), which I plink away at in my spare time. It's going to be 15-20K words, looks like.
Gordon Feiner (08:12.05 PM)
I know you guys may not want to - but honestly Bestiary is too big physically, it's a total pain in the ass to use. If it ends up that big I'd rather two books.
Lord Liaden (08:12.41 PM)
Aztecs and Mayas are only two of the Meso-American culture groups -- maybe just call them that?
Steven S. Long (08:13.21 PM)
LL, no, because it's going to emphasize Aztec, with some additional Mayan stuff. I'm not doing to delve into Zapotec, Mixtec, Olmec, or any others, except incidentally at best.
It's going to be a heart-rippingly awesome chapter! :)
That's another big favorite of mine, though sadly it lacks the "literariness" and sophisticated/unified presentation of Greek or Norse.
Narf the Mouse (08:14.20 PM)
...That is a noxious pun. You're good at the artichoke.
Steven S. Long (08:14.21 PM)
But then, most mythoi do.
Gordon Feiner (08:14.54 PM)
how many books are left in the cue to print? Or is everything caught up?
Matthew Martin (08:15.04 PM)
I think we're still waiting on CV3.
Steven S. Long (08:15.18 PM)
Just CV3 right now, I believe, Gordon, since BotE isn't done with layout (and won't be yet, for awhile).
After that it'll be a good long while until MH is done, I suspect. Lots of mythoi left to explore! But it's not like I'm hating it. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:15.59 PM)
yeah, exploring cultures and myths... must be torture
Steven S. Long (08:16.36 PM)
The trick is to not get TOO wrapped up in it. There's a point past which more research isn't as helpful, so I gots ta know when to cut my losses and move on. For a completist like me, that's tough.
Lord Liaden (08:16.37 PM)
It must suck when the business of game-writing clutters up the fun of game-writing. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:17.34 PM)
That's how American Indian ended up being so long -- there are a almost a dozen major cultural groups/regions to cover, and I wanted to have some gods, heroes, and monsters in each. In effect I could've split that chapter up into eight.
Yeah, LL, it's a burden. ;)
In fact, for American Indian, I ended up with a LOT of weird monsters in particular. Most just get textual descriptions (plus a "for this monster, use so-and-so from HSB ??? with these changes..."), but that's still plenty for a creative GM to run with.
Lord Liaden (08:19.02 PM)
Did any of those American Indian cultures spill up north into Canada?
Steven S. Long (08:19.33 PM)
LL, yes, absolutely. The Arctic/Subarctic group is almost entirely in Canada, and Plains and Northeast both lap into the Great White North as well.
In fact, the lists of Inuit gods, heroes, and monsters is pretty damn extensive, if'n I do say so m'self. ;)
And Northwest Coast, too, for that matter. Can't forget those Haida, Tlingit, Kwakiutl, et cetera. :)
Lord Liaden (08:20.46 PM)
Inuit tend to get short shrift in fantasy fiction, but there's some fantastic stuff there.
Steven S. Long (08:20.49 PM)
When you get down to it, only Southeast and Southwest are entirely in the US, since I didn't cover the Great Basin or Californian regions.
There definitely is, LL, though there's a certain one-dimensionality to it. The Inuit don't have a lot of varied landscapes or wide variation of life concerns to worry about.
There's a loooot of sea gods, and hunting gods... and that's mostly it. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:22.06 PM)
I guess I like the stark harshness of it -- reminds me of Norse, a little.
Steven S. Long (08:22.14 PM)
But some of it is definitely smack-ass weird. Ten-legged polar bear monsters, giant burrowing critters that can't live on the surface, fingerless gods....
I can see that. It's even MORE harsh, really, much more.
Gordon Feiner (08:22.58 PM)
arg, the problem with 12" is there's only 2-3 songs a side..
Steven S. Long (08:23.23 PM)
Ah, the burdens of being a music afficionado. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:23.55 PM)
Has a decision been reached on where the Arthurian stuff will end up yet?
Gordon Feiner (08:23.57 PM)
it's a terrible price to pay.
Steven S. Long (08:25.14 PM)
MM, I haven't formally discussed it with Darren, which is where the rubber meets the road planning and budgeting-wise, but my inclination right now is to do LEGENDARY HERO as a separate book, in which case two major chunks of MH stuff -- the entire Arthurian chapter and the bogatyrs et al. from Slavic/Russian Mythology -- would get moved over to LH.
The response to the idea of LH was really strong, and I can certainly fill a book with non-mythological, non-historical figures of legend.
Gordon Feiner (08:26.13 PM)
I think LH is an awesome idea.
Lord Liaden (08:26.35 PM)
More books that look like they'd sell is always sound publishing strategy. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:26.46 PM)
Have you thought about putting in more 'modern' Legends, like the 19th century Gothic Horror stuffs (Frankenstein, Dracula, et al)
AirborneRob (08:26.53 PM)
Evening
Lord Liaden (08:27.07 PM)
Happy landings, Rob. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:27.11 PM)
Gordon, I have, and I have roundly rejected that idea. Though it's possible some such figures may show up in VICTORIAN HERO. ;)
AirborneRob (08:27.17 PM)
;)
Steven S. Long (08:27.17 PM)
Hey, ARob!
AirborneRob (08:27.26 PM)
How goes it
Steven S. Long (08:27.37 PM)
Just fine; we're busy jawing about MYTHIC HERO, mostly.
AirborneRob (08:27.45 PM)
Nice
Gordon Feiner (08:27.52 PM)
Oh, any reasons that modern Legends don't make the cut?
Steven S. Long (08:28.05 PM)
Because they don't fit my definition of "legendary."
Lord Liaden (08:28.31 PM)
Steve, regarding BOTE -- will there be any sort of dimensional map or chart included?
Matthew Martin (08:28.36 PM)
Hmm...Siegfried/Sigurd, Fafnir, and the rest of the Germanic stuff going in there, perhaps?
Gordon Feiner (08:28.56 PM)
remind me to update your internal dictionary... :)
Steven S. Long (08:29.02 PM)
LL, no, there will not. I don't want to shatter any artists' minds trying to draw one up. Well, we'll probably reprint the basic multiversal "diagram" from TMW, but that's it.
MM, no, they're covered in Norse Mythology under their proper names. If you want to adapt to Germanic versions that's easy enough, but I don't want to take the time or page space to do it m'self. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:29.51 PM)
OK.
Steven S. Long (08:29.55 PM)
I've already done Sigurd's character sheet, in fact!
Narf the Mouse (08:30.39 PM)
Hey, Rob
Steven S. Long (08:30.48 PM)
Along with several Norse gods and related figures from the sagas and eddas... with a good many more to come.
AirborneRob (08:30.53 PM)
lol, anyone have the game on ;)
Lord Liaden (08:31.00 PM)
I wouldn't be surprised if a little Germanic myth leaks into Golden Age Champions.
Steven S. Long (08:31.34 PM)
LL, that's certainly possible. On that note, one illo I spec'd for BotE has gotten us the first pic we've ever had of der Sturmvogel. Turned out qutie well.
quite*
Lord Liaden (08:32.21 PM)
Actually, Der Sturmvogel is drawn in both Digital Hero and Champions Universe.
Steven S. Long (08:32.59 PM)
DH doesn't count. I don't recall him in CU, though I could've forgotten.
Matthew Martin (08:35.55 PM)
So, Steve, with all the stuff you've been digging up, what's going to wind up having the weirder gods and monsters: MYTHIC HERO or CTHULHU HERO? :)
Lord Liaden (08:36.27 PM)
Well, there's a picture on CU 5E p. 13 that looks almost exactly like Sturmvogel's DH illo. I just assumed that was him. If not, mea culpa. :o
AirborneRob (08:36.35 PM)
I take it Mythic Hero is up and coming; forgive me i was both hi-jacked by an alien and we were watching the ball game
Steven S. Long (08:36.50 PM)
That's a good question, Matthew. I suppose it depends on one's definition of "weird," but honestly there are some things in American Indian mythology that seem even more bizarre to me than the Cthulhu Mythos.
Yes, Rob, MH is the book I'm currently writing.
AirborneRob (08:37.23 PM)
Ok, now im tracking
Steven S. Long (08:37.24 PM)
I suspect when I get to Chinese and Hindu mythologies I will also encounter rampant weirdness. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:38.00 PM)
I'm not familiar with it firsthand, but I think Chinese literature/folklore may also be rich with stuff for Legendary Hero as well.
Steven S. Long (08:38.01 PM)
I can grok Lovecraft's thought process; his gods are like something I could maybe create. There's no way in hell I could ever think up some of the stuff I've been reading from American Indian mythology. ;)
AirborneRob (08:38.15 PM)
lol
Steven S. Long (08:38.22 PM)
Possibly, MM, though there may be a limit as to how much of that sorta thing I can take! ;)
Matthew Martin (08:38.23 PM)
I worry about anyone who can grok Lovecraft's thought. :)
Lord Liaden (08:38.27 PM)
It's an interesing question -- what would be stranger to a Westerner, creations of a foreign culture, or the imagination of someone from the same culture?
Gordon Feiner (08:38.31 PM)
Some American-Indian myths I've encountered are too weird to not be real...
AirborneRob (08:39.01 PM)
you want weird, watch Ancient Aliens
Steven S. Long (08:39.08 PM)
I came across a bunch of stuff too weird or disgusting to even put in MH; it just wasn't worth the time to try to explain it.
AirborneRob (08:39.49 PM)
or stupid, im on the fence with that show
Raiden was Chinese folk lore correct?
Matthew Martin (08:40.55 PM)
Say, Steve, something a release from the competition had me wondering: Does Dracula exist in the Champions Universe?
Lord Liaden (08:41.05 PM)
I'm pretty sure the storm-god Raven is Japanese.
I mean "Raiden" -- no idea why I wrote that. :o
Steven S. Long (08:41.52 PM)
Matthew, if you read the early history section in CU, I'd say that if there aren't references to him there are to enough of his contemporaries to make it not much of a leap to say "Yes."
Gordon Feiner (08:41.53 PM)
Raiden is Japanese.
Steven S. Long (08:42.03 PM)
Raiden is Japanese, correct.
AirborneRob (08:42.04 PM)
Ok, tanks
Matthew Martin (08:42.17 PM)
It's been a long time since I picked up CU 5E, and I don't have 6E. :)
Narf the Mouse (08:42.19 PM)
Countess Bathory makes a much more likely vampire than Dracula.
Lord Liaden (08:42.21 PM)
Dracula is specifically mentioned in the CU historical timeline.
Steven S. Long (08:42.30 PM)
That'
is what I thought. Thanx, LL.
Lord Liaden (08:43.02 PM)
I found it interesting that Champions Online introduced Vlad's vampire-father, Vladic Draycul.
Steven S. Long (08:43.05 PM)
Given Darren's Wold Newton-istic tendencies, I'd've been surprised otherwise. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:43.35 PM)
One thing I've thought the CU is missing is an ancient vampire-lord-type villain.
Steven S. Long (08:44.21 PM)
Feh, I don't think we need one, really. Stalker's plenty as far as I'm concerned. ;)
AirborneRob (08:44.27 PM)
I love undead villans ;)
Matthew Martin (08:44.33 PM)
I'd think there's a risk of Takofanes bringing said villain under his thumb if he got too high up on the radar, though.
Gordon Feiner (08:45.00 PM)
grr, nothing more annoying than a badly cut center hole.
Steven S. Long (08:45.17 PM)
There ya go, IIRC Kal-Turak had a vampire sidekick or something of the sort, just dig him up and Champions-ize him. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:45.25 PM)
There are powerful undead running around the CU now who don't work for Tak. I don't see a problem.
Gordon Feiner (08:45.26 PM)
the Evil Taco is biggest undead threat the CU needs I think.
Narf the Mouse (08:45.43 PM)
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Wight%27s_Chant - Undead Villains FTW.
Lord Liaden (08:45.47 PM)
But don't forget, vampires sell nowadays. :D
Steven S. Long (08:46.00 PM)
I've been thinking it might be fun to do a book all about the undead at some point, in which case ultra-powerful vampires would certainly get coverage. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:46.23 PM)
vampires are on their way out, the next big thing will be Flying Monkeys. mark my words.
Lord Liaden (08:46.32 PM)
Steve, do you mean in general, or universe-specific?
Indiana Joe (08:46.46 PM)
Vampires sell... werewolves sell... zombies sell...
AirborneRob (08:46.48 PM)
@LL: I think Vampires have always had alot of popularity
Matthew Martin (08:46.55 PM)
Gordon--Vampires have already been succeeded by ponies. :)
Lord Liaden (08:46.58 PM)
'Cause I'd love to see a character sheet for Kostitchie the Deathless.
Steven S. Long (08:47.11 PM)
I mean, in general. Though if we did such a book there could in theory be CU-specific sidebars. It was just an idea I had the other day, not a fully-formed conception. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:47.14 PM)
Zombie novels are actually on the rise in a big way I've noticed lately.
Narf the Mouse (08:47.37 PM)
...Vampire Ponies!
Steven S. Long (08:47.37 PM)
LL, you're going to, either in MH, or LH if we do that book. He's been on the Slavic/Russian list for many moons. ;)
AirborneRob (08:47.58 PM)
@Narf:................yea
:)
Gordon Feiner (08:48.17 PM)
I'm really excited about the idea of LH - I hope that gets chosen for a future book.
Lord Liaden (08:48.41 PM)
Rob -- I'm old enough to remember before vampires were popular, let alone angsty or sparkly. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:48.45 PM)
Gordon, if we do it, I suspect it won't be a "future" book at all, but follow right on MH's heels. Though maybe not. There are many possibilities.
Matthew Martin (08:49.23 PM)
I'm just old enough to remember when Anne Rice was the Hot New Thing, not an assumed baseline. :)
AirborneRob (08:49.23 PM)
Im old school as well my friend ;)
Matthew Martin (08:49.52 PM)
For me, Dracula is Bela Lugosi . . . or Orson Welles. :)
AirborneRob (08:50.01 PM)
What was his name...Bela Lagosi that played the first?
lol
Narf the Mouse (08:50.13 PM)
Vampires - Any Undead - Are personifications of Entropy and should reflect that.
AirborneRob (08:50.15 PM)
Guess so
Gordon Feiner (08:50.23 PM)
Bela Lagosi played the first Hollywood vampire, not the first Screen Vampire
AirborneRob (08:50.40 PM)
He delivered that role
Narf the Mouse (08:50.40 PM)
Lugosi, according to Google.
AirborneRob (08:50.54 PM)
set the bar
Narf the Mouse (08:50.56 PM)
Fred Saberhagen's Dracula is best Dracula.
Gordon Feiner (08:51.04 PM)
I'm pretty sure the German film "Nosferatu" was out first.. could be wrong though
Steven S. Long (08:51.12 PM)
I almost forgot, the costume contest! The prize for best Foxbat costume goes to... ::rolls on hastily-assembled chart:: Indiana Joe!
Congrats, IJ, you win a no-prize. ;)
AirborneRob (08:51.30 PM)
lol, wow
Matthew Martin (08:51.36 PM)
Nosferatu (with Max Shreck) does predate Dracula, but it's not a legal adaptation of Stoker.
Indiana Joe (08:51.46 PM)
Hah! My master plan is proceeding perfectly!
Gordon Feiner (08:51.48 PM)
*launches Throwing Badger at Indiana-Joe*
Matthew Martin (08:51.49 PM)
The second legitimate screen Dracula was Carlos Villeras, IIRC.
Indiana Joe (08:52.14 PM)
*shoots badger down with ping-pong ball gun*
Gordon Feiner (08:52.29 PM)
legal shmegal, it was Dracula. And a creepy one at that.
Lord Liaden (08:52.42 PM)
I've actually seen the Villeras Dracula. Same sets as were used for the American version, but IMO much more interestingly directed.
Steven S. Long (08:52.43 PM)
OK, I think things are getting too rowdy in here. Time for me to scoot so that I can make it to class bright-eyed and bushy-tailed tomorrow. ;)
See y'all next week -- have a great Halloween!!
Bon soir, mes amies!
Narf the Mouse (07:58.13 PM)
*Goes into a ramble on kids these days and no patience, why in my day, we waited hours to connect to a local BBS*... :D
Lord Liaden (07:58.14 PM)
Hi, IJ.
Narf the Mouse (07:58.25 PM)
Hi, Steve
Lord Liaden (07:58.34 PM)
Steve's gone continental on us. ;)
Narf the Mouse (07:58.36 PM)
Hi, IJ, MM
Steven S. Long (07:58.41 PM)
Hope everyone's doing well tonight. ;)
Gordon Feiner (07:58.51 PM)
hey Steve.
Narf the Mouse (07:58.56 PM)
Well, slight headache, but that's common after hot dogs.
Steven S. Long (07:59.00 PM)
Hey Narf, Gordon!
Lord Liaden (07:59.04 PM)
Actually, I'm hoping this will be an upswing on my day.
Matthew Martin (07:59.12 PM)
Hello, Narf.
Hello, Steve.
Steven S. Long (07:59.26 PM)
Hey Matthew.
Lord Liaden (07:59.34 PM)
Matthew!
Indiana Joe (07:59.51 PM)
Looking forward to getting my latest Hero order fufiled.
Narf the Mouse (08:00.07 PM)
APGII? Bought it myself, book and .pdf.
Indiana Joe (08:00.27 PM)
Yes, among other things, including Star Hero.
Steven S. Long (08:00.37 PM)
As usual we'll give it a few minutes for stragglers to arrive before I make the announcements. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:00.54 PM)
I need to buy Hero books soon...
Matthew Martin (08:01.04 PM)
I bought Star Hero a couple of weeks ago from the Fraim brothers. It arrived the same day as my copy of LUG's Star Trek: TOS RPG. :)
Steven S. Long (08:01.27 PM)
Fine books, the both of them, with quality writers involved. :)
Matthew Martin (08:01.54 PM)
I referred to it mentally as a Double Dose of Full-Color Steve Long Sci-Fi Goodness. :)
Steven S. Long (08:02.08 PM)
There ya go! :)
Though I don't recall whether Jim Cambias contributed to the TOS RPG core book, it might be Double Dose o' Cambias as well.
I know he did some supplements, but not sure he did core book work for the ST RPGs.
Matthew Martin (08:03.16 PM)
He _is_ in there. So's Ken Hite, who is always worthwhile. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:03.40 PM)
gah, hate it when I leave a record on the player and end up with one in my hand to put on... then I get to the do One Hand Vinyl Shuffle
Steven S. Long (08:03.41 PM)
Yup, Ken was Line Developer for the TOS line, as I was for DS9. We each think we had the best job at the company. ;)
I feel your pain, Gordon... though sadly I haven't had a turntable set up in years.
Lord Liaden (08:04.06 PM)
Does everybody in the RPG business know everybody else?
Matthew Martin (08:04.08 PM)
I'd say you had the better one, but it's close. :)
LL--small business. :)
Steven S. Long (08:04.59 PM)
LL -- not quite, but it can seem that way sometimes. It's a fairly small industry; in fact, I've been told that there are more astronauts in the space program than there are full-time RPG designers, though I think that probably depends on definitions.
Gordon Feiner (08:05.12 PM)
USB players a cheap, and eay to hook up. Not quite the pure quality of a Technique, but good still.
Steven S. Long (08:05.21 PM)
In this case it's a matter of building on existing relationships. I hired Jim to help write SH because I knew the quality of his work from the ST RPGs.
OK, I'd say we've waited long enough, time for... announcements!
First, as several of you just mentioned, APG2 is now available! Pick up your copy today if you ain't already. ;)
Second, THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS is currently in layout! Every day the Fraim Brothers (who are doing all the art for the book) send in another piece or three, and I have to say that so far they're doing their usual phenomenal job. Sometimes I'd swear they're reading my mind, they get so close to what I was thinking when I spec'd out a piece.
Just saw a great one yesterday of V'han's top command planning a dimensional invasion, mwah hah hah hah hah. :)
Third, right now I'm almost entirely focused on MYTHIC HERO! Just today I *finally* finished the chapter on American Indian mythologies. It topped out at over 30,000 words, for that one chapter alone. This book's gonna be a monster. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:08.19 PM)
It's in the hands of TOP... MEN.
Gordon Feiner (08:08.48 PM)
if you have to cut MyH - cut it so we can get MH2 next year :)
Steven S. Long (08:08.50 PM)
I spent the rest of the day working on Armenian mythology, and am nearly done (it being a far less detailed and complex topic than most mythoi). In fact, I'll probably finish it up tomorrow 'fore headin' off for InDesign class.
Gordon -- the thought of splitting the book in two, as with the Asian Bestiaries, has crossed my mind. ;)
Narf the Mouse (08:09.31 PM)
...But then the finished produced wouldn't stop a bullet. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:09.32 PM)
I can't see how that could wrong....
Lord Liaden (08:09.41 PM)
If you did split it, what would be the most convenient dividing line?
Steven S. Long (08:09.54 PM)
After Armenian is done, depending on how I feel I'll either do Assyro-Babylonian or Aztec/Mayan. I need to do some preliminary research to decide whether I want to combine A-Bab with Sumerian into "Mesopotamian Mythology."
LL -- not sure. The commercial consideration is "Greek in one volume, Norse in the other." So probably somewhere around Japanese or Hawaiian, alphabetically speaking.
But hopefully that won't be necessary. I'd rather not do it.
I'm also nearly finished with the chapter on Norse mythology (my favorite), which I plink away at in my spare time. It's going to be 15-20K words, looks like.
Gordon Feiner (08:12.05 PM)
I know you guys may not want to - but honestly Bestiary is too big physically, it's a total pain in the ass to use. If it ends up that big I'd rather two books.
Lord Liaden (08:12.41 PM)
Aztecs and Mayas are only two of the Meso-American culture groups -- maybe just call them that?
Steven S. Long (08:13.21 PM)
LL, no, because it's going to emphasize Aztec, with some additional Mayan stuff. I'm not doing to delve into Zapotec, Mixtec, Olmec, or any others, except incidentally at best.
It's going to be a heart-rippingly awesome chapter! :)
That's another big favorite of mine, though sadly it lacks the "literariness" and sophisticated/unified presentation of Greek or Norse.
Narf the Mouse (08:14.20 PM)
...That is a noxious pun. You're good at the artichoke.
Steven S. Long (08:14.21 PM)
But then, most mythoi do.
Gordon Feiner (08:14.54 PM)
how many books are left in the cue to print? Or is everything caught up?
Matthew Martin (08:15.04 PM)
I think we're still waiting on CV3.
Steven S. Long (08:15.18 PM)
Just CV3 right now, I believe, Gordon, since BotE isn't done with layout (and won't be yet, for awhile).
After that it'll be a good long while until MH is done, I suspect. Lots of mythoi left to explore! But it's not like I'm hating it. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:15.59 PM)
yeah, exploring cultures and myths... must be torture
Steven S. Long (08:16.36 PM)
The trick is to not get TOO wrapped up in it. There's a point past which more research isn't as helpful, so I gots ta know when to cut my losses and move on. For a completist like me, that's tough.
Lord Liaden (08:16.37 PM)
It must suck when the business of game-writing clutters up the fun of game-writing. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:17.34 PM)
That's how American Indian ended up being so long -- there are a almost a dozen major cultural groups/regions to cover, and I wanted to have some gods, heroes, and monsters in each. In effect I could've split that chapter up into eight.
Yeah, LL, it's a burden. ;)
In fact, for American Indian, I ended up with a LOT of weird monsters in particular. Most just get textual descriptions (plus a "for this monster, use so-and-so from HSB ??? with these changes..."), but that's still plenty for a creative GM to run with.
Lord Liaden (08:19.02 PM)
Did any of those American Indian cultures spill up north into Canada?
Steven S. Long (08:19.33 PM)
LL, yes, absolutely. The Arctic/Subarctic group is almost entirely in Canada, and Plains and Northeast both lap into the Great White North as well.
In fact, the lists of Inuit gods, heroes, and monsters is pretty damn extensive, if'n I do say so m'self. ;)
And Northwest Coast, too, for that matter. Can't forget those Haida, Tlingit, Kwakiutl, et cetera. :)
Lord Liaden (08:20.46 PM)
Inuit tend to get short shrift in fantasy fiction, but there's some fantastic stuff there.
Steven S. Long (08:20.49 PM)
When you get down to it, only Southeast and Southwest are entirely in the US, since I didn't cover the Great Basin or Californian regions.
There definitely is, LL, though there's a certain one-dimensionality to it. The Inuit don't have a lot of varied landscapes or wide variation of life concerns to worry about.
There's a loooot of sea gods, and hunting gods... and that's mostly it. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:22.06 PM)
I guess I like the stark harshness of it -- reminds me of Norse, a little.
Steven S. Long (08:22.14 PM)
But some of it is definitely smack-ass weird. Ten-legged polar bear monsters, giant burrowing critters that can't live on the surface, fingerless gods....
I can see that. It's even MORE harsh, really, much more.
Gordon Feiner (08:22.58 PM)
arg, the problem with 12" is there's only 2-3 songs a side..
Steven S. Long (08:23.23 PM)
Ah, the burdens of being a music afficionado. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:23.55 PM)
Has a decision been reached on where the Arthurian stuff will end up yet?
Gordon Feiner (08:23.57 PM)
it's a terrible price to pay.
Steven S. Long (08:25.14 PM)
MM, I haven't formally discussed it with Darren, which is where the rubber meets the road planning and budgeting-wise, but my inclination right now is to do LEGENDARY HERO as a separate book, in which case two major chunks of MH stuff -- the entire Arthurian chapter and the bogatyrs et al. from Slavic/Russian Mythology -- would get moved over to LH.
The response to the idea of LH was really strong, and I can certainly fill a book with non-mythological, non-historical figures of legend.
Gordon Feiner (08:26.13 PM)
I think LH is an awesome idea.
Lord Liaden (08:26.35 PM)
More books that look like they'd sell is always sound publishing strategy. :)
Gordon Feiner (08:26.46 PM)
Have you thought about putting in more 'modern' Legends, like the 19th century Gothic Horror stuffs (Frankenstein, Dracula, et al)
AirborneRob (08:26.53 PM)
Evening
Lord Liaden (08:27.07 PM)
Happy landings, Rob. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:27.11 PM)
Gordon, I have, and I have roundly rejected that idea. Though it's possible some such figures may show up in VICTORIAN HERO. ;)
AirborneRob (08:27.17 PM)
;)
Steven S. Long (08:27.17 PM)
Hey, ARob!
AirborneRob (08:27.26 PM)
How goes it
Steven S. Long (08:27.37 PM)
Just fine; we're busy jawing about MYTHIC HERO, mostly.
AirborneRob (08:27.45 PM)
Nice
Gordon Feiner (08:27.52 PM)
Oh, any reasons that modern Legends don't make the cut?
Steven S. Long (08:28.05 PM)
Because they don't fit my definition of "legendary."
Lord Liaden (08:28.31 PM)
Steve, regarding BOTE -- will there be any sort of dimensional map or chart included?
Matthew Martin (08:28.36 PM)
Hmm...Siegfried/Sigurd, Fafnir, and the rest of the Germanic stuff going in there, perhaps?
Gordon Feiner (08:28.56 PM)
remind me to update your internal dictionary... :)
Steven S. Long (08:29.02 PM)
LL, no, there will not. I don't want to shatter any artists' minds trying to draw one up. Well, we'll probably reprint the basic multiversal "diagram" from TMW, but that's it.
MM, no, they're covered in Norse Mythology under their proper names. If you want to adapt to Germanic versions that's easy enough, but I don't want to take the time or page space to do it m'self. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:29.51 PM)
OK.
Steven S. Long (08:29.55 PM)
I've already done Sigurd's character sheet, in fact!
Narf the Mouse (08:30.39 PM)
Hey, Rob
Steven S. Long (08:30.48 PM)
Along with several Norse gods and related figures from the sagas and eddas... with a good many more to come.
AirborneRob (08:30.53 PM)
lol, anyone have the game on ;)
Lord Liaden (08:31.00 PM)
I wouldn't be surprised if a little Germanic myth leaks into Golden Age Champions.
Steven S. Long (08:31.34 PM)
LL, that's certainly possible. On that note, one illo I spec'd for BotE has gotten us the first pic we've ever had of der Sturmvogel. Turned out qutie well.
quite*
Lord Liaden (08:32.21 PM)
Actually, Der Sturmvogel is drawn in both Digital Hero and Champions Universe.
Steven S. Long (08:32.59 PM)
DH doesn't count. I don't recall him in CU, though I could've forgotten.
Matthew Martin (08:35.55 PM)
So, Steve, with all the stuff you've been digging up, what's going to wind up having the weirder gods and monsters: MYTHIC HERO or CTHULHU HERO? :)
Lord Liaden (08:36.27 PM)
Well, there's a picture on CU 5E p. 13 that looks almost exactly like Sturmvogel's DH illo. I just assumed that was him. If not, mea culpa. :o
AirborneRob (08:36.35 PM)
I take it Mythic Hero is up and coming; forgive me i was both hi-jacked by an alien and we were watching the ball game
Steven S. Long (08:36.50 PM)
That's a good question, Matthew. I suppose it depends on one's definition of "weird," but honestly there are some things in American Indian mythology that seem even more bizarre to me than the Cthulhu Mythos.
Yes, Rob, MH is the book I'm currently writing.
AirborneRob (08:37.23 PM)
Ok, now im tracking
Steven S. Long (08:37.24 PM)
I suspect when I get to Chinese and Hindu mythologies I will also encounter rampant weirdness. ;)
Matthew Martin (08:38.00 PM)
I'm not familiar with it firsthand, but I think Chinese literature/folklore may also be rich with stuff for Legendary Hero as well.
Steven S. Long (08:38.01 PM)
I can grok Lovecraft's thought process; his gods are like something I could maybe create. There's no way in hell I could ever think up some of the stuff I've been reading from American Indian mythology. ;)
AirborneRob (08:38.15 PM)
lol
Steven S. Long (08:38.22 PM)
Possibly, MM, though there may be a limit as to how much of that sorta thing I can take! ;)
Matthew Martin (08:38.23 PM)
I worry about anyone who can grok Lovecraft's thought. :)
Lord Liaden (08:38.27 PM)
It's an interesing question -- what would be stranger to a Westerner, creations of a foreign culture, or the imagination of someone from the same culture?
Gordon Feiner (08:38.31 PM)
Some American-Indian myths I've encountered are too weird to not be real...
AirborneRob (08:39.01 PM)
you want weird, watch Ancient Aliens
Steven S. Long (08:39.08 PM)
I came across a bunch of stuff too weird or disgusting to even put in MH; it just wasn't worth the time to try to explain it.
AirborneRob (08:39.49 PM)
or stupid, im on the fence with that show
Raiden was Chinese folk lore correct?
Matthew Martin (08:40.55 PM)
Say, Steve, something a release from the competition had me wondering: Does Dracula exist in the Champions Universe?
Lord Liaden (08:41.05 PM)
I'm pretty sure the storm-god Raven is Japanese.
I mean "Raiden" -- no idea why I wrote that. :o
Steven S. Long (08:41.52 PM)
Matthew, if you read the early history section in CU, I'd say that if there aren't references to him there are to enough of his contemporaries to make it not much of a leap to say "Yes."
Gordon Feiner (08:41.53 PM)
Raiden is Japanese.
Steven S. Long (08:42.03 PM)
Raiden is Japanese, correct.
AirborneRob (08:42.04 PM)
Ok, tanks
Matthew Martin (08:42.17 PM)
It's been a long time since I picked up CU 5E, and I don't have 6E. :)
Narf the Mouse (08:42.19 PM)
Countess Bathory makes a much more likely vampire than Dracula.
Lord Liaden (08:42.21 PM)
Dracula is specifically mentioned in the CU historical timeline.
Steven S. Long (08:42.30 PM)
That'
is what I thought. Thanx, LL.
Lord Liaden (08:43.02 PM)
I found it interesting that Champions Online introduced Vlad's vampire-father, Vladic Draycul.
Steven S. Long (08:43.05 PM)
Given Darren's Wold Newton-istic tendencies, I'd've been surprised otherwise. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:43.35 PM)
One thing I've thought the CU is missing is an ancient vampire-lord-type villain.
Steven S. Long (08:44.21 PM)
Feh, I don't think we need one, really. Stalker's plenty as far as I'm concerned. ;)
AirborneRob (08:44.27 PM)
I love undead villans ;)
Matthew Martin (08:44.33 PM)
I'd think there's a risk of Takofanes bringing said villain under his thumb if he got too high up on the radar, though.
Gordon Feiner (08:45.00 PM)
grr, nothing more annoying than a badly cut center hole.
Steven S. Long (08:45.17 PM)
There ya go, IIRC Kal-Turak had a vampire sidekick or something of the sort, just dig him up and Champions-ize him. ;)
Lord Liaden (08:45.25 PM)
There are powerful undead running around the CU now who don't work for Tak. I don't see a problem.
Gordon Feiner (08:45.26 PM)
the Evil Taco is biggest undead threat the CU needs I think.
Narf the Mouse (08:45.43 PM)
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Wight%27s_Chant - Undead Villains FTW.
Lord Liaden (08:45.47 PM)
But don't forget, vampires sell nowadays. :D
Steven S. Long (08:46.00 PM)
I've been thinking it might be fun to do a book all about the undead at some point, in which case ultra-powerful vampires would certainly get coverage. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:46.23 PM)
vampires are on their way out, the next big thing will be Flying Monkeys. mark my words.
Lord Liaden (08:46.32 PM)
Steve, do you mean in general, or universe-specific?
Indiana Joe (08:46.46 PM)
Vampires sell... werewolves sell... zombies sell...
AirborneRob (08:46.48 PM)
@LL: I think Vampires have always had alot of popularity
Matthew Martin (08:46.55 PM)
Gordon--Vampires have already been succeeded by ponies. :)
Lord Liaden (08:46.58 PM)
'Cause I'd love to see a character sheet for Kostitchie the Deathless.
Steven S. Long (08:47.11 PM)
I mean, in general. Though if we did such a book there could in theory be CU-specific sidebars. It was just an idea I had the other day, not a fully-formed conception. ;)
Gordon Feiner (08:47.14 PM)
Zombie novels are actually on the rise in a big way I've noticed lately.
Narf the Mouse (08:47.37 PM)
...Vampire Ponies!
Steven S. Long (08:47.37 PM)
LL, you're going to, either in MH, or LH if we do that book. He's been on the Slavic/Russian list for many moons. ;)
AirborneRob (08:47.58 PM)
@Narf:................yea
:)
Gordon Feiner (08:48.17 PM)
I'm really excited about the idea of LH - I hope that gets chosen for a future book.
Lord Liaden (08:48.41 PM)
Rob -- I'm old enough to remember before vampires were popular, let alone angsty or sparkly. ;)
Steven S. Long (08:48.45 PM)
Gordon, if we do it, I suspect it won't be a "future" book at all, but follow right on MH's heels. Though maybe not. There are many possibilities.
Matthew Martin (08:49.23 PM)
I'm just old enough to remember when Anne Rice was the Hot New Thing, not an assumed baseline. :)
AirborneRob (08:49.23 PM)
Im old school as well my friend ;)
Matthew Martin (08:49.52 PM)
For me, Dracula is Bela Lugosi . . . or Orson Welles. :)
AirborneRob (08:50.01 PM)
What was his name...Bela Lagosi that played the first?
lol
Narf the Mouse (08:50.13 PM)
Vampires - Any Undead - Are personifications of Entropy and should reflect that.
AirborneRob (08:50.15 PM)
Guess so
Gordon Feiner (08:50.23 PM)
Bela Lagosi played the first Hollywood vampire, not the first Screen Vampire
AirborneRob (08:50.40 PM)
He delivered that role
Narf the Mouse (08:50.40 PM)
Lugosi, according to Google.
AirborneRob (08:50.54 PM)
set the bar
Narf the Mouse (08:50.56 PM)
Fred Saberhagen's Dracula is best Dracula.
Gordon Feiner (08:51.04 PM)
I'm pretty sure the German film "Nosferatu" was out first.. could be wrong though
Steven S. Long (08:51.12 PM)
I almost forgot, the costume contest! The prize for best Foxbat costume goes to... ::rolls on hastily-assembled chart:: Indiana Joe!
Congrats, IJ, you win a no-prize. ;)
AirborneRob (08:51.30 PM)
lol, wow
Matthew Martin (08:51.36 PM)
Nosferatu (with Max Shreck) does predate Dracula, but it's not a legal adaptation of Stoker.
Indiana Joe (08:51.46 PM)
Hah! My master plan is proceeding perfectly!
Gordon Feiner (08:51.48 PM)
*launches Throwing Badger at Indiana-Joe*
Matthew Martin (08:51.49 PM)
The second legitimate screen Dracula was Carlos Villeras, IIRC.
Indiana Joe (08:52.14 PM)
*shoots badger down with ping-pong ball gun*
Gordon Feiner (08:52.29 PM)
legal shmegal, it was Dracula. And a creepy one at that.
Lord Liaden (08:52.42 PM)
I've actually seen the Villeras Dracula. Same sets as were used for the American version, but IMO much more interestingly directed.
Steven S. Long (08:52.43 PM)
OK, I think things are getting too rowdy in here. Time for me to scoot so that I can make it to class bright-eyed and bushy-tailed tomorrow. ;)
See y'all next week -- have a great Halloween!!