Need help pegging a Physical Limitation

[TheEmerged]

I'll have to explain a little backstory before the question makes sense.

Due to some problems I have run into in the past with limited SPD, I disallow it except in specific cases (examples of which include foci-based SPD). In particular, I disallow the "only to do X" kind of limited SPD (like Menton of CKC has). As a rule I require the character (PC or NPC) to buy the maximum possible SPD, and then use a Physical Limitation to express the fact there are thing(s) they can and/or can't do on certain phases.

EXAMPLE 1. Menton is listed in CKC as having a 9 SPD -- 4 of which is bought "can only take mental actions/tk" as a -1/2 limitation. Setting aside that's too much of a limitation in my opinion (-1/4 tops), my campaign's rewrite of him has to pay for all 9 SPD and has a PhyLim saying he can only take "mental" actions on phases 2, 6, 7, and 11. It's pegged at 10 points -- 10 for being "Frequently" and 0 for being "Slightly". After all, most of his powers are mental or TK in use so the fact he can only act "physically" half the time doesn't really hurt him that much.

EXAMPLE 2. Grond is listed in CKC as having a 6 SPD -- 2 of which is bought with a 11- Activation. In his case the limitation is pegged at 20 points -- 15 for being "All The Time" and +5 for being "Greatly". Not only are his possible actions on the "extra" phases far more limited than Menton's, the fact that he still has to make an activation role limits them further.

This system has generally served me well, but I've run into something I can't peg a PhyLim value for. It's an odd case but interesting enough to work for :rolleyes:

Basically, the idea is for a character with a "real" SPD of 6 who also has a 90 point multipower -- built mostly with "variable" slots instead of the usual ultras. The idea is to mimic the function of having SPD in the multipower -- if he wants to act on the "extra" phases it reduces the amount of "pool points" available for other uses.

The part I've worked out so far goes like this.

The character has to pay for all 12 points of SPD.
Acting on even-numbered phases (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12) has no affect on the pool.
When acting on phases 3 or 9, he's limited to only 70 points in the pool.
When acting on phases 5 and 11, he's limited to only 50 points in the pool.
When acting on phases 1 and 7, he's limited to only 30 points in the pool.


Yes, I'm operating by SPD pairs instead of +1 SPD costing +10 points -- simpler that way. And yes, I also know that's not the way having SPD in a multipower would "really" work.

The jest of the matter is that on the "real" phases he acts at full 90 points of pool power -- on the others the fact that he's "pushing" himself to act reduces the amount he can "push" his other powers.

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Having explained myself, what do y'all think is a fair value for the Physical Limitation in this case? I'm leaning toward 15 points for "Frequently" since he'll still have plenty of actions and "Greatly" since it cuts into how effective he'll be during those phases. I could justify 10 (Freq/Slight) however because what he can do isn't limited (only how well he can do it).

Other thoughts?

[dugfromthearth]

I'm sorry I couldn't follow the multipower thing at all.

[misterdeath]

So, are you saying that he's got a Multipower 90 pt reserve, with slots like (simplified example)
90 Multipower 90 reserve
12m +6 speed.
18m 18d6 EB.

If he's using the + 6 speed, that's 60 points of the reserve and then the 30 points he has remaining makes a 6d6 EB.

You're just trying to figure out the limitation on the Speed, except that you want a Phys Lim, not one that directly affects the Speed.

Hmmm. The 10 pointer sounds about right to me. He's got full access to the pool, the limit really only affects the speed slot (if I'm picturing things right).

D

[Supreme Serpent]

Howabout represent it by a limitation on the multipower?

[Zed-F]

I think I follow what you are doing. My instinct is to go with the 10-point limitation. It's a limitation he can choose not to have at any point by simply declining to act on those phases -- e.g. if he has a 90 AP continuous power up, he can choose not to take an action in phase 7 and keep his continuous power at full effectiveness. Thus in my view it's only slightly limiting.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by misterdeath
So, are you saying that he's got a Multipower 90 pt reserve, with slots like (simplified example)
90 Multipower 90 reserve
12m +6 speed.
18m 18d6 EB.

If he's using the + 6 speed, that's 60 points of the reserve and then the 30 points he has remaining makes a 6d6 EB.

You're just trying to figure out the limitation on the Speed, except that you want a Phys Lim, not one that directly affects the Speed.

Hmmm. The 10 pointer sounds about right to me. He's got full access to the pool, the limit really only affects the speed slot (if I'm picturing things right).

D

There is no SPD slot. I consider SPD in a framework to be pretty much the same as limited SPD -- I don't allow it as a rule (with the possibility of exceptions if I hear a good one).

Since there's some confusion, I'll try rewording it.

The character has a 12 SPD. He will act in every phase, every segment.

The character has a 90 pt multipower, with variable slots instead of the usual ultras. The "special effect" of the multipower is that he is boosting existing powers via concentration. The slots are things like PD, ED, STR, running, swimming, an HKA, stretching, that sort of thing.

On the even-numbered phases, he has access to all 90 points of the pool.

On the odd-numbered phases, he can only access part of the pool (cf the above list). The reasoning is that he's having to concentrate to boost his SPD. I'm going the route I am instead of using limited SPD (including the concept of putting it in his multipower) because I don't allow limited SPD under most circumstances; the rules about changing SPD also don't work quite the way I want this character to.

RE: Limit on the multipower pool. That's my fallback method -- if I can't get this working to my satisfaction, that's what I'll do.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
The part I've worked out so far goes like this.

The character has to pay for all 12 points of SPD.
Acting on even-numbered phases (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12) has no affect on the pool.
When acting on phases 3 or 9, he's limited to only 70 points in the pool.
When acting on phases 5 and 11, he's limited to only 50 points in the pool.
When acting on phases 1 and 7, he's limited to only 30 points in the pool.


The Full MP is 90, right? So
(90 * 6) + (70 * 2) + (50 * 2) + (30 * 2) =
540 + 140 + 100 + 60 =
840 effective points per turn or
840/12 = 70 pts/phase average or
78% of the pool is available on average.

So the power is limited 1/4 of the time. Personally, I would apply a 1/4 limitation to the pool of the multipower, which would be 22 or 23 points. But if you want to do this as a physical limitation, I would say "All the time, Greatly" for 20 points.

[TheEmerged]

Yeah, -1/4 is what I've pegged the multipower pool limitation at should I have to go that route (and increasingly, it's looking like the better method).

[Supreme Serpent]

Something to keep in mind as you are working this up.

As you have it now, the player will have access to the full MP on the even phases, EVEN IF he goes ahead and uses his full 12 speed. The player could then organize his turn like this:

1: Recover
2: use MP at full power.
3: Dodge
4: use MP at full power.
5: Dodge
6: use MP at full power.
7: move
8: use MP at full power.
9: Recover
10: use MP at full power.
11: dodge
12: use MP at full power.

...or something similar. Not saying you shouldn't allow it in your game, but something to keep in mind when you're thinking about restrictions for this rationale.

[Talon]

Obviously, it depends on what sort of options the character has outside the pool. Assuming that the pool is the character's main or only source of powers, I'd give it 10 points: Infrequently (how often do you really need more than a 6 SPD?), Greatly.

Since he has complete control over the MP allocation, he can tailor his SPD based on the defenses of who he's facing. Against agents, a 30 point pool might be more than enough -- so he can go 12 SPD and take them out really fast. Against major villains, he drops to 6 SPD and cuts loose with the heavy artillery. Not to mention that whenever he gets tired, he just finds a corner, goes to 12 SPD, and takes Recoveries really fast.