Las Vegas 5E [Archive] - HERO Games Discussion Boards

Hermit

Oct 10th, '03, 04:18 PM

Mutant For Hire had this great concept for heroing in Vegas. I repost it here.

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire

Las Vegas:
Minor league in name and perception only. Technically most supers who've been there or study the place conclude that it is major league in terms of threat level to any super passing through. The place is a very attractive target due to all the gambling money there. The casino owners know it and so have hired the very best mercenary supers that money can get (sometimes from Miami) and then back them up with a squadron of lawyers that are very good at getting 'excessive force' charges dropped. Supervillains who try to knock over a casino have a very high fatality rate and most of the rest end up crippled for life.

Of course this is done with a view towards minimizing the violence in the eyes of the tourists, so as not to scare them. That is the major reason the casino owners object to outside superheroes in Las Vegas. They are too soft on criminals and often do more property dmaage and scare tourists more. Unsactioned superhero activity in Vegas tends to be strongly discouraged, though usually its more through restraining orders than force.

Oh yes, supervillains who think their telepathy, clairvoyance, precogntion or cyber/telekinesis will win them a fortune in Vegas are in for a very bad surprise. Whether its magical, technological, psionic or whatever, most government agencies consider the Vegas casinos to be some of the most secure areas on the planet. In general, supers are not allowed to gamble at those places unless they have been cleaeed with the owners and in general only famous or rich (or preferably both) supers are allowed in to do that, as tourist draws.

Atlantic City and most other famous gambling centers around the planet more or less operate along similar principles. These places are in some ways not good places to set up campaigns but they are great places to send heros through, if only to give them a taste of going up against a high power, highly trained squad of supers that can scare the crap out of all but the most powerful teams elsewhere.

Universities:
Univerisities are breeding grounds for supers. They also tend to have a lot of resources that are very attractive to various sorts of supers on both sides of the law. The more prestigious universities probably have standing superhero teams, and not composed of undergraduates but rather a regular roster that sticks around and is paid out of university funds to deal with supervillain attacks and any disruptive origins.

Of course these days universities all have college superhero teams composed of undergraduates with complicated eligbility rules. Being a high school metahuman, brilliant inventor or mystic type, is a good way to get a college scholarship these days. These teams usually act as backup to the standing superhero teams, working crowd control, making sure that a disruptive event in one spot isn't a distraction for the main team. These teams also compete against other college superhero teams as well. In fact increasingly a lot of the professional superhero teams (or the cities that back them) are paying a lot of attention to would be superheroes on the college circuit. A few supervillains as well.

Universities tend to be very annoyed about outside supers coming in uninvited. It isn't too difficult to get clearance to go in to one of these places, especially if its just a scientific consultation, though due to obvious potential complications superheroes have to clear things through the appropriate office first and have their need evaluated against potential liability. Not too many universities are willing to examine a Doctor Destroyer creation.

Obviously, university sports are getting increasingly good at detecting genetic/chemical alterations, cybernetic enhancements, and mystic power. Certain advanced forms of 'chi' training are currently being debated on the college and professional level. The results could have a profound impact on college and professional sports.

Universities would be a great place to base a superhero team, especially the college team. Origins all over the place, but what brings them together? Their scholarship money. Or they can be the anti-team that didn't make the official team and has to use secret IDs because they're operating in violation of university regulations,

Lord Liaden

Oct 10th, '03, 04:20 PM

Why the heck not! :D

In case you weren't aware of it, Michael Surbrook has posted a writeup of the Graboids from Tremors on his website:

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/adaptionscreatures/fiction/graboids.html

You might find it amusing to look at a short discussion of the Tremors TV series:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2116&highlight=tremors+hero

Blue

Oct 10th, '03, 04:32 PM

Vegas is where I intend to set up my Dark Champions campaign... if I ever get around to running such a game.

Mark Rand

Oct 11th, '03, 07:52 AM

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments.

I've read the Tremors: the Series thread, but it doesn't have much game date in it. I do have the graboid writeup, the scifi.com Tremors information and the movies and series on tape.

The team will be federally sanctioned.

Would a hotel/casino sponsor a team for publicity/good will and to backup its in house team?

Luxor's could have an Egyptian theme while Excalibur's would have an Arthurian one.

Warder, the team's mage, who has a screech owl for a familiar, is a UNLV graduate and was part of their student hero team. She could act as a mentor to them and consultant to the university, and federal agencies on mystical matters.

winterhawk

Oct 11th, '03, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Hi all,
Would a hotel/casino sponsor a team for publicity/good will and to backup its in house team?
Luxor's could have an Egyptian theme while Excalibur's would have an Arthurian one.

This is exactly what I did in my 4th Edition campaign. Each casino sponsored a hero for the team:

Luxor - Pharoah
Caesar's - Gladiator
Treasure Island - Swashbuckler
Circus Circus - Highwire
MGM Grand - Lioness

They were very public figures, often serving as greeters and making appearances a big events like boxing matches.

For my 5th campaign, I decided to use MfH's idea and had a cabal of casino's covertly hire a supermercenary on Mechassassin's level. He called Wildcard and maintains a Batmanesque 'urban legend' reputation. The last supervillains that tried to knock over a casino, were never seen again.

Mark Rand

Oct 11th, '03, 01:33 PM

My original concept was to have Las Vegas's team be a branch team of an established, federally-sanctioned team.

Guardian, the team leader, wears powered armor that was built by his, now deceased father.
Warder, the team's mage, was discussed in a previous post.

The team's headquarters mansion once belonged to Warder's teacher. Since it's a mage's house, its bigger on the inside than the outside.

Taking a concept from some post seventh-season Buffy fan fiction, the Las Vegas area is also home to the nerve center for 4,000 Slayers worldwide. Some stay in Vegas, while others are scattered throughout the world. (Buffy and Giles are in Cleveland, keeping an eye on the Hellmouth there.) The price they paid for staying in Vegas was to do things by the book, learn criminology and teach vampire-fighting techniques to various police forces. At least one Slayer helps federal, state and local agencies keep a watch at the main airport and one's usually with the CSI teams.

Yours,
Mark Rand

HewhoisMatt

Oct 12th, '03, 07:58 AM

I was in a a Vegas game a while back with a team called the Vegas Knights. Some of the probs we ran in to were.

Swinging is not a good way to get around.

Nellis AFB, and Area 51 don't like strange aircraft.

Never could find a good place for a base cept maybe under lake Mead.

All the probs one would expect from mental powers and gambling being close to one another.

Same as above but with the luck perk(now power).

We get to 110 in the summer time and it hardly ever rains cold, water, and plant powers some times have a prob.

Anyway I hope this helps some, if you need any Vegas info drop me a line and I'll try to help you out.

Mark Rand

Oct 12th, '03, 01:47 PM

Thank you for the good points to ponder.

I prefer mansions or estates for headquarters because they're easy to find locations for. According to the Buffy fanfic I'm getting inspiration from, their base is a former Enron compound just outside the city. There could be others like it nearby. One other option, if you're using GURPS IST as a base and have decided thay're part of UNTIL, is to build an office building in town or, if the IST has been in existance for a while, let them have a compound, like IST Kingston, Jamaica. It would serve as an R&R spot for heroes as well as a team base.

As far as aircraft go, I find the ones superhero teams use fall into two catigories. Either they're prototype aircraft loaned to the team for testing or, especially with a branch office team, well-known aircraft. Either way, the air force will know about them and may even provide flight crews.
With the IST, the heroes would probably follow the lead of Buffy's associates and use military aircraft.

Mark Rand

Nov 22nd, '03, 02:35 PM

How's this?

PRIMUS has decided to form superhero teams at some of its bases and Las Vegas is one of them. The heroes are members of that team. Guardian, an armored hero, leads the team. Warder, a female mage, is another member. Warder's accompanied by her familiar, Amber, a Western Screech Owl.

The team has two bases, PRIMUS Las Vegas and, with their permission, Warder's mansion. Like all mage's houses, it's bigger on the inside than the outside. It's also haunted and has gates to alternate realities.

Aside from their housekeeper, the support staff consists of PRIMUS personal.

lemming

Nov 22nd, '03, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by HewhoisMatt

We get to 110 in the summer time and it hardly ever rains cold, water, and plant powers some times have a prob.

Though when it rains, it's a pain in the butt. Flash Floods, etc... Though good for rescueing people.

Hmm, I was about to suggest checking out Viper Net (Based in Las Vegas), but it looks like Shelley has it closed for now. :(

Mark Rand

Nov 23rd, '03, 06:51 AM

I forgot to mention that the alternate realities are pocket dimensions, some as small as a room.

Nightfly

Nov 23rd, '03, 08:30 AM

As a diehard Buffy/Angel fan I really must ask some questions:

1) Please explain your proclivity towards turning the slayer(s) into cops??
I always thought that one of the most basic concepts of BtVS was female empowerment (i.e., Womens Liberation...from conventional *male dominated* institutions).

As an Independent Woman, the Slayer herself / themselves stand as icons of anti-establishment (underground) heroism.  Slayers, by Joss' design, scoff at traditional law enforcement, acting (instead) as demonworld vigilantes.

2) I wonder, is your rush to give them badges connected to Batman (the ultimate vigilante) starting to carry one?

3) I surely appreciate the impetus of including Slayers in anyones 5E world, but, why bind these women to a badge (& penal codes).

4) In this (prolific) fanfic, are the Watcher's no longer good enough [to direct Slayer efforts]?

5-6) Do your Slayer cops have to go through the police academy?  Why are Slayer's suddenly adept forensic scientists (why not private investigators, etc)?

In the end, if it's just a personal thing, than I guess I can understand (like if you make all your PCs have arrest powers, etc).  But, nothing in either Angel or BtVS has made me think Joss was designing another CSI or Law & Order spinoff (I kinda thought that was the whole point).

Mark Rand

Nov 23rd, '03, 11:45 AM

Good points, Nightfly.

I'm trying to combine Buffy post season seven (where there are many Slayers and no Council of Watchers) with the CU.

Since the Initiative, part of the DOD knows about Slayers, vampires, and Hellmouths, it stands to reason that they'd tell other law enforcement and intelligence agencies about them.

I think that these agencies would insist on a working relationship with the Slayers.

By the way, shouldn't we be discussing this on the Sunnydale thread?

Nightfly

Nov 23rd, '03, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Good points, Nightfly.
I'm trying to combine Buffy post season seven (where there are many Slayers and no Council of Watchers) with the CU.
Since the Initiative, part of the DOD knows about Slayers, vampires, and Hellmouths, it stands to reason that they'd tell other law enforcement and intelligence agencies about them.
I think that these agencies would insist on a working relationship with the Slayers.
By the way, shouldn't we be discussing this on the Sunnydale thread?

So what if the establishment pigs 'insist'?!  I believe the Council of Watcher's would maintain the same stand they always have in Joss' Buffyverse.
Perhaps some individual Slayers would wanna join up, but I seriously doubt any working relationship would include the Council (or their Slayers) taking orders from 'badges'.

Just my opinion.

Nightfly

Nov 23rd, '03, 10:47 PM

Also, I'd ask what do the official agencies think of friendly demons?

In Joss' comic book Fray, about a post-apocalyptic Slayer, the titular character has a demon for a Watcher.

Would the various CU law agencies appreciate demon involvement (and all that that entails)?

Mark Rand

Nov 24th, '03, 07:56 AM

Nightfly, I have my copy of the Sunnydale 5E thread beside me. On page 11, after I make my proposal, you say, and I quote, "Awesome!! Excellent Integration". Have you changed your mind?

Nightfly

Nov 25th, '03, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Nightfly, I have my copy of the Sunnydale 5E thread beside me. On page 11, after I make my proposal, you say, and I quote, "Awesome!! Excellent Integration". Have you changed your mind?

I didn't (then) realize the extent (what with the further commentary that has transpired since then) to which your intent was to make them into cops.

Personally, I'm not really a true-believer of the 4000 estimate either.  But its not like my opinion should stop your fun, I'm just pointing out my interpretation of what Joss would approve of (which obviously I can only guess at).  But I believe mine is an educated 'guess'.

The Initiative is cool to 'integrate', but I just think the Slayers should remain independent operators.  If the only way Slayers can exist in your CU is to be assimilated into the law, I guess that's just a personal thing again.

BTW, thanks for considering my views closely enough to be able to recall my past comments.  I appreciate it, even when my qoutes are used against me ;)

Mark Rand

Nov 25th, '03, 04:15 AM

Actually, I printed the whole thread out.

The 4,000 worldwide is assuming that, if you possess the potential, you'll become a Slayer no matter what age you are. If you limit to women between 12 and 25, you'll probably end up with less.

What do you think of a mage casting a spell on the Slayers that would act as a universal translater?

Nightfly

Nov 25th, '03, 04:46 AM

Knowing that 12-25 yr olds would be less (than 4k) sounds better to me!

A Universal Translator spell sounds good, but I'd ask if it'd extend to ancient (dead) languages and/or Alien species?

I rather like that the Watchers are needed to (sometimes roughly) translate ancient mystical texts.

If the UT-spell functioned primarily to aid the Slayers in their everyday (pedestrian) duties it'd be fun,... but I wouldn't want the Watchers to be devalued by it.

Just my two cents, but I could see a UT-spell relating to all actively spoken languages on this globe - but probably only with that limitation. :)

Mark Rand

Nov 25th, '03, 06:10 AM

Since, as I recall, the First destroyed the Watchers Council, the Trismegistus Council has been handling the research chores of the old council, but they're not involved in the training of the Slayers. Other people do that.

A typical team consists of a Slayer, her teacher, an associate of the Trismegistus Council that acts as her researcher, a computer expert and a mage. The researcher and computer expert probably don't have much combat experience.

The UT spell's purpose is for everyday use only. In fact, I came up with the idea after seeing the problems the Chinese potential had understanding everyone else.

Any idea why nobody knew she couldn't drink milk or eat foods made with dairy products or Willow didn't cast a UT spell?

Nightfly

Nov 25th, '03, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Since, as I recall, the First destroyed the Watchers Council, the Trismegistus Council has been handling the research chores of the old council, but they're not involved in the training of the Slayers. Other people do that.
A typical team consists of a Slayer, her teacher, an associate of the Trismegistus Council that acts as her researcher, a computer expert and a mage. The researcher and computer expert probably don't have much combat experience.
The UT spell's purpose is for everyday use only. In fact, I came up with the idea after seeing the problems the Chinese potential had understanding everyone else.
Any idea why nobody knew she couldn't drink milk or eat foods made with dairy products or Willow didn't cast a UT spell?

Well, here's where an element of my ignorance shines thru...what is the Trismegistus Council?  Is it another element from the fanfic you've previously referenced?

Only recently the issue of the Watchers Council arose on Angel (via Wesley's dad), and they didn't seem to indicate any giving up on rebuilding on the Council's part.  Nor was any mention made of the Trismegistus Council? (I'm getting pretty curious about it now, cuz if its show related I really should know about it).

As to a UT spell on the show, I just don't think the concept practically exists there.  Perhaps something like that might exist regarding magical texts, but I'd bet the only place the Scooby Gang (or Team Angel) would've heard about UTs would be Star Trek.

I like the concept though.  I bet given the suggestion, Willow (s.7) might've been able to cast just such a spell.

Mark Rand

Nov 25th, '03, 08:01 AM

The Trismegistus Council is from the CU, not the Buffyverse.

I'm sure the Watchers, being the power-hungry group that they are, would try to rebuild their council and take over the Slayers' lives, but the girls probably wouldn't let them.

Nightfly

Nov 25th, '03, 09:10 AM

touché, good Sir Rand :)

Though I'd assert Watchers exist to assist & advise, but turnabout...etc. ;)

Mark Rand

Nov 25th, '03, 02:52 PM

I have five reasons for calling them power-hungry.

The first is the Cruciamentum that Buffy had during season three.

The second is the fact that they employ hit squads. They sent one after Buffy when her mind was in Faith's body.

The third is that they believe that they think that they're the only ones that have the right to try Slayers. They took Faith from police custody to have their own trial.

The fourth is the fact that they fired Giles for telling Buffy about the test and replacing him with Wesley, who was no good as a Watcher.

The fifth is that they permitted Joyce Summers to be the bait in Buffy's Cruciamentum.

Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander would've told the new Slayers about these events.

Nightfly

Nov 26th, '03, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
I have five reasons for calling them power-hungry.
The first is the Cruciamentum that Buffy had during season three.
The second is the fact that they employ hit squads. They sent one after Buffy when her mind was in Faith's body.
The third is that they believe that they think that they're the only ones that have the right to try Slayers. They took Faith from police custody to have their own trial.
The fourth is the fact that they fired Giles for telling Buffy about the test and replacing him with Wesley, who was no good as a Watcher.
The fifth is that they permitted Joyce Summers to be the bait in Buffy's Cruciamentum.
Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander would've told the new Slayers about these events.

Power-Hungry seems too strong a word for them (pre 'Chosen').  Closer to point, IMO, would be 'power-accustomed'.
Though their methods were certainly (at times) untoward, I see them acting very much like strict (single parent) fathers.  In this mindset, the white-haired white-witches/goddesses (that gave Buffy the scythe) would be the absent mother (parent) figure.
Strict fathers often employ (even) extreme measures to enact their will.
And let's not forget they were literally taming the demon-within within these (inherently immature) girls/teens.

I liken certain rituals/ceremonies the Watchers followed as tribal, and more importantly par for the course.

As to their 'hit squads', I think the term is questionable.  I think I'd call 'em Field Teams.  Unless, one is equally willing to call Riley & The Initiative demon 'hitters' or 'hit squads'. Obviously, though, their Field Teams have license to kill.  Considering even Stafleet had Section 31, and our gov't of course has black ops agencies, I'm not personally indignant on this point.

Wesley, was afterall, the Council's "Head Boy".  I'm assuming that title equates somewhat to top of the class?  His Watcher prowess (which today has *though Slayerless* been proven), was hampered by having Faith as his charge.
Giles, often lamented the special treatment (by normal standards) that Buffy required by virtue of her (pronounced)individuality... well Faith was at least twice as unruly *and individualized* as Buffy.  Surely Wesley (fresh off the boat) couldnt've expected that!  So, I'd say his poor performance was (at least) understandable (and forgivable).

How the Council would react to rebuilding in the face of thousands of new chrages,... is anybody's guess.

Mark Rand

Nov 27th, '03, 04:21 AM

Good points, Nightfly. Thank you.

Mark Rand

Nov 27th, '03, 08:10 AM

Could they be on retainer to either the DOSPA or various agencies as consultants? This happened in the CU. In the Millennium City sourcebook, on page 68, it states that Witchcraft serves as one of the senior advisors to DOSPA's Mystic Affairs Bureau.

Vorsch

Nov 27th, '03, 02:15 PM

Quote

"
So what if the establishment pigs 'insist'?! I believe the Council of Watcher's would maintain the same stand they always have in Joss' Buffyverse.
Perhaps some individual Slayers would wanna join up, but I seriously doubt any working relationship would include the Council (or their Slayers) taking orders from 'badges'.

Just my opinion."

Your opinion seems to label police "pigs" why?

Vorsch

Nightfly

Nov 27th, '03, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Vorsch

Your opinion seems to label police "pigs" why?
Vorsch

Personal experience.  Not only do I come from a family with many cops in it, I personally went thru (more than half) the police academy - and found it to be overly racist.

I know, not every cop is bad.  But Ice-T's song "Cop Killer" was indicative of a real relationship-dynamic between law enforcement (even here in *liberal* California) and dark-skinned citizens.

Nightfly

Nov 27th, '03, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Could they be on retainer to either the DOSPA or various agencies as consultants? This happened in the CU. In the Millennium City sourcebook, on page 68, it states that Witchcraft serves as one of the senior advisors to DOSPA's Mystic Affairs Bureau.

What is DOSPA?  Dept of Supernatural Paranormal Affairs?? (just guessing).

I would believe that Slayers, on an individual basis (or even occassionally directed by their Watchers) might consult for official state-sanctioned agencies.  I just don't personally believe they'd "join up".

Mark Rand

Dec 20th, '03, 02:52 PM

One of my main sources of inspiration for involving the Buffyverse and the olice is the Slayer / CSI series. Please note, there are a few spoilers here.

At the end of the third story, Buffy joins CSI as a consultant. They pay her a retainer and, when necessary, a salary and expenses.

The fourth story concludes with, as an epilogue, the Sunnydale earthquake.

After that, the new Watchers Council is based in Las Vegas in a former Enron compound. Of course, there's a price to pay. The Slayers must help law enforcement and follow due process. In return, they learn state-of-the-art police and forensics techniques. Such things help in cities where they're not working closely with the police. (To me, this sounds like they're a sanctioned superhero team.)

A later story gives us some figures. There are in excess of 100 that they've found, the youngest being a nine year old child. (According to a previous story, said nine year old child is still in training and her parents have to give permission before she can start patrolling.)

Nightfly

Dec 21st, '03, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
One of my main sources of inspiration for involving the Buffyverse and the olice is the Slayer / CSI series. Please note, there are a few spoilers here.
At the end of the third story, Buffy joins CSI as a consultant. They pay her a retainer and, when necessary, a salary and expenses.
The fourth story concludes with, as an epilogue, the Sunnydale earthquake.
After that, the new Watchers Council is based in Las Vegas in a former Enron compound. Of course, there's a price to pay. The Slayers must help law enforcement and follow due process. In return, they learn state-of-the-art police and forensics techniques. Such things help in cities where they're not working closely with the police. (To me, this sounds like they're a sanctioned superhero team.)
A later story gives us some figures. There are in excess of 100 that they've found, the youngest being a nine year old child. (According to a previous story, said nine year old child is still in training and her parents have to give permission before she can start patrolling.)

Is this from the fan-fic you've talked about,... or is it from a real Joss comic, or something else?

Mark Rand

Dec 22nd, '03, 04:10 AM

Fanfiction, Nightfly. You can find the main site at www.fanfiction.net.

Mark Rand

Dec 22nd, '03, 09:18 AM

Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's going to be this way. Slayer Centeral (or Watcher HQ) could easily be at Angel's hotel or an estate in England.

However, in a universe with superheroes, I suspect that the top brass of the DOD would tell the PRIMUS, the DOSPA and, maybe, UNTIL bigshots about their Initiative group, Slayers, Vampires, Demons, Hellmouths and other such things. Somebody in Washington probably would decide that these people either get federal help or supervision, whether they want it or not

Of course, Riley and Samantha Finn would, if asked, tell the feds that it wasn't necessary, but the bigshots probably wouldn't listen until it was too late.

Nightfly

Dec 22nd, '03, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
However, in a universe with superheroes, I suspect that the top brass of the DOD would tell the PRIMUS, the DOSPA and, maybe, UNTIL bigshots about their Initiative group, Slayers, Vampires, Demons, Hellmouths and other such things. Somebody in Washington probably would decide that these people either get federal help or supervision, weither they want it or not

Sounds like an oppressive regime?! Too bad that having a world full of heroes means having less freedom from military oversight.
Just my opinion, but, my CU meets Buffyverse (interpretation) doesn't remotely resemble that reasoning.

Too each, his own.

Mark Rand

Dec 23rd, '03, 04:15 AM

How would you do it, Nightfly?

Mentor

Dec 23rd, '03, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by winterhawk
This is exactly what I did in my 4th Edition campaign. Each casino sponsored a hero for the team:

Luxor - Pharoah
Caesar's - Gladiator
Treasure Island - Swashbuckler
Circus Circus - Highwire
MGM Grand - Lioness

They were very public figures, often serving as greeters and making appearances a big events like boxing matches.

For my 5th campaign, I decided to use MfH's idea and had a cabal of casino's covertly hire a supermercenary on Mechassassin's level. He called Wildcard and maintains a Batmanesque 'urban legend' reputation. The last supervillains that tried to knock over a casino, were never seen again. I love the Vegas themed characters. Consider them respectfully plagerized.

Trebuchet

Dec 23rd, '03, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Mentor
I love the Vegas themed characters. Consider them respectfully plagerized. Oh, crap... :eek:

Nightfly

Dec 24th, '03, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
How would you do it, Nightfly?

Well, for one, my preferred rpg-world is more cyberpunk than Silver Age supes.

In my game, Watcher's have a less direct hold over their Slayer charges.  Slayer's tend to group up in teams of 3-4, often choosing to associate w/ other superhero types whenever possible (and of course w/ hackers & magic users).
Watcher's are only utilized to oversee (said) groupings (of Slayers) and are around primarily for their arcane occult knowledge (as well as training of young newbie Slayers).
While I do include State agencies like UNTIL & PRIMUS, they only appear rarely & almost never carry much impact in my scenarios.

Even if I built my world w/ tons of caped-supers flying around, I'd still believe that most folks would (choose to, if necessary) remain blissfully ignorant (that includes the Gov't) of traditionally paranormal threats (ghosts, vampires, etc).  Especially if there are other known (openly dangerous) threats around [such as worldclass villains bent on dominating the human race / planet / etc].

The fact that Africa, England, and the American Southwest (in fact a former Mexican territory) were chosen as cornerstones of Joss' mythology makes sense to me (especially as he is an athiest).  I fail to see Las Vegas (or anything about it) as being next in that line of (spiritual) locales.
From African (tribal) mysticism, to England's rich Arthurian/Merlin legacy, to the shamanism of the southwest, Joss' chosen landmarks belong to a certain paranormal pedigree.
I believe the Watcher's Council would definitely reform & remain in England, their traditional home (where most of the books are) ;)

As to the public's blissful ignorance, I attribute that to the fact that (as usually depicted) Vamps are both cautious and a
(literal) underground threat (ala they stay under the authorities radar on purpose).
In L.A., Angel hardly spends a majority of his time fighting Vamp threats (quite the opposite).  Who needs the feds when Gunn and his rag-tag group of homies were keeping the (regional / local) vamp threat in check??

As to Joss' writings, only two (spoken of) Hellmouths exist in this country (in) Sunnydale & Cleveland.  Now, naturally vamps (as well as many other evil types) congregate near Hellmouths, but outside of such mystical convergences, I believe the assumption should be that vamps (deliberately & expertly) lay low.
In a land where tons of folks have super-powers, even exceeding a Slayer's, I believe their covert nature would be [even] more magnified.

Please understand,... how you create your own Buffy-fan mythos is up to you.  The only reason I chime in w/ my opinions is because I'm known to be a massive Buffy fan... and it just doesn't (wouldn't) seem right if I (philosophically) couldn't enjoy a scenario created by another [great] Buffy fan.  But then again, I never read fan-fiction of any (of my) beloved franchises.

Perhaps a former Marine Sgt. would have his 5E Slayer join the military, I can kinda understand such stuff,... but for me I'd rather keep it as close to canon as I can get (if only out of respect for Whedon & his beloved creation)

Mark Rand

Dec 25th, '03, 07:28 AM

Mayday. thank you for your comments. They're a great help to me.

Would the Initative, in a superhero universe, tell other federal and international law enforcement and intelligence agencies about Hellmouths, Slayers, Vampires, Demons and such?

Roth

Dec 25th, '03, 05:36 PM

Mark I have a question, What are the names of the Buffy/CSI crossover stories?

Nightfly

Dec 25th, '03, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Mayday. thank you for your comments. They're a great help to me.
Would the Initative, in a superhero universe, tell other federal and international law enforcement and intelligence agencies about Hellmouths, Slayers, Vampires, Demons and such?

I believe The Initiative would share their knowledge / data.

To confess, upon recently watching the Riley (conclusion) epis, it was said that the mission of trying to study / control the demon threat had been abandoned in favor of strictly search & destroy tactics.
So, in that area The Initiative's research aspects probably would've been given over to UNTIL.

Just my $0.02

Mark Rand

Dec 26th, '03, 05:10 AM

Roth, the stories are, in order, Should Have Gone To Vegas, Manhunters, Slayer Las Vegas, and Potential Problems, in the first series. The second series, post season seven, is Welcome Wagon, The Sitter, Cataclysm, Lady Heather's Dominion and Unfinished Business.

Since PRIMUS and other agencies know about Slayers, Vampires and such, what would they do? In my opinion, They'd say, "Since we have enough to do, we'll let the Slayers deal with the problem. All we can do is share information with them."

A superhero, or superhero team could also provide help, especially with magic, computer hacking, medical care and help in figuring out any high-tech gear the Slayer might find.

Although there are only two Hellmouths mentioned in the series, Sunnydale and Cleveland, there could be others. Also, vampires have been found in New York City and other places. Vamps could be drawn to Vegas by the tourists.

Added 5/26/06, the story Cold Cases.

Nightfly

Dec 27th, '03, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Since PRIMUS and other agencies know about Slayers, Vampires and such, what would they do? In my opinion, They'd say, "Since we have enough to do, we'll let the Slayers deal with the problem. All we can do is share information with them."
I'd take it even further and grant that as with The Initiative, they'd be willing to be the (emergency) calvary, and sometimes lend on-the-ground support (in addition to intel)

Originally posted by Mark Rand
A superhero, or superhero team could also provide help, especially with magic, computer hacking, medical care and help in figuring out any high-tech gear the Slayer might find.

This is exactly how I see it. Most Slayer's would either;
1) Join a super-team [as one of the admittedly lower powered members], or maybe even "enlist", which means probably not having an actual Watcher
2) Form a Slayer team of three-to four [like Charlie's Angels :)], which virtually guarantees a Watcher (along with whatever white-hats they want)
3) Go it totally alone - almost guarantees not having a Watcher (would certainly need a specialized team of white-hats)

Originally posted by Mark Rand
Although there are only two Hellmouths mentioned in the series, Sunnydale and Cleveland, there could be others. Also, vampires have been found in New York City and other places. Vamps could be drawn to Vegas by the tourists.
You're totally correct.  Vamps should surely be found in nearly any size city (internationally), and in gangs.  And the Buffy-rpg allows players to make their own Hellmouths with Joss' (implied by licensing) blessing.  Las Vegas would be a deserving (as any other city) candidate - especially cuz its both urban & remote (plus isn't it known as "Sin City"?) :)

I'm liking it :cool:

Mark Rand

Dec 27th, '03, 06:28 AM

Thanks, Nightfly.

Las Vegas's Slayer was trained, by her mother, who owns a gymnastics school, in the ways of the ninja before she became a Slayer. Her mother often joins her on patrol.

Besides stakes and a crossbow, she likes to use a katana (or samurai sword), as did many ninja. Said katana, and its companion wakizashi (or short sword), according to legend, was given to a Slayer in Japan, by the Shogun after dealing with a master vampire there. The legend also states that the swords are blessed.

One of the Slayers friends from the gymnastics school, and another of her mother's ninjitsu students, is the local superhero team's engineer. Said techie/ninja only rarely joins her friend on patrol.

She's also a fifth cousin of fellow ninja Mariko Nakamura who, in my campaign, is Las Vegas's Silver Avenger.

Nightfly

Dec 28th, '03, 08:34 PM

That sounds really cool. I think it's imaginative (too) that you extend your characters families (up to and) even including 5th cousins
My Slayer ('Cherish' as in Cherish The Vampire Slayer) was also martial-trained, as well as a mutant [already] before being "called" (to Slayer duty). She has two meta-brothers (though based in other cities), and is often joined [on patrol] by the great grandson of Riley Finn.

James Gillen

Dec 28th, '03, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Nightfly
The fact that Africa, England, and the American Southwest (in fact a former Mexican territory) were chosen as cornerstones of Joss' mythology makes sense to me (especially as he is an athiest).  I fail to see Las Vegas (or anything about it) as being next in that line of (spiritual) locales.
From African (tribal) mysticism, to England's rich Arthurian/Merlin legacy, to the shamanism of the southwest, Joss' chosen landmarks belong to a certain paranormal pedigree.
I believe the Watcher's Council would definitely reform & remain in England, their traditional home (where most of the books are) ;)

The American Southwest/former Mexican territory includes the entire state of Nevada. Las Vegas also used to be Paiute and Shoshone territory (well, it still is). So the 'spiritual' angle works just as well here.
As for the territory being a Hellmouth, that's not absolutely necessary. ANGEL's Los Angeles has more demons than BUFFY's Sunnydale ever did (well, BUFFY pre-Season 6, anyway). I think their position was, "L.A. isn't a Hellmouth, but most of the things that come from Hell seem to end up there." :)

I don't read any fanfic, but I think one of the regular comic series had a short tale of Buffy (post-movie and pre-Season 1) running away from L.A. and making a brief stop in Las Vegas.

Oh, and here's a real-world story hook for non-Buffy games:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Dec-23-Tue-2003/news/22856152.html

JG

Nightfly

Dec 28th, '03, 10:24 PM

James Gillen,
I don't really know why but at first I had a negative reaction to breaking (show) canon,... but upon reviewing the Buffy-rpg (by Eden) I noticed it allows for pretty-much anything.  And afterall, Cleveland isn't exactly known as a spiritual nexus either (IMHO).

Addressing your point, though Nevada isn't of the 4-corners region, it definitely carries it's own legacy (see Stephen King's The Stand).

On another note, one Angel episode exposed Los Angeles to quite literally be Hell (I believe it was in Season 2), for what it's worth.  Angel got in an elevator (with deceased Holland), intending to go to Hell, and ended up arriving exactly where he started.

Joss created such a wonderfully open / imaginative universe, I'm starting to see that nearly anything is possible within it.

Mark Rand

Dec 29th, '03, 01:42 PM

A bit more on Silver Avenger Nakamura. I used three silver avengers to create her: Maria Chow (San Francisco), Terry Kestler (Portland), and Mayte Sanchez (Millennium City).

She looks like Maria Chow and is Terry Kestler with ninjutsu and Mayte Sanchez's adrenaline junkie style.
She also owns, and uses, her own martial arts weapons. Her favorites include a katana, made by a master swordsmith, that's been her family since the 16th century, throwing stars and a weighted chain.

Mark Rand

Jan 3rd, '04, 06:12 PM

Silver Avenger Nakamura was created as the default Silver Avenger for the campaign. Now that I think of it, I could simply transfer Terry Kestler to the campaign city. That would work, too.

I'm beginning to think a team of three Slayers might be best.

One's the Japanese-American Slayer mentioned above. Her mother now teaches the girls how to fight.
The second is from Jamaica. Her Watcher now serves as the team's Watcher. Since there's already a combat teacher, he serves as a researcher.

The third girl's white, from the campaign city and the daughter of a high school principal. To make things more interesting, said school sits on the local Hellmouth.

Agent Cameron Chase of PRIMUS serves as agency liaison for both teams.

Nightfly

Jan 4th, '04, 09:43 PM

Sounds Awesome, Mark! :) Nice Idea, Nice ethnic mix :cool:

Nightfly

Jan 5th, '04, 06:33 AM

Mr. Rand,
My Slayer (I'm about to make another) carries a scythe axe like the one Buffy used in the show's final episodes.
I'm figuring that (beyond a normal stake) it'd become the primary weapon of choice among Slayers - though neither being restricted to it, nor receiving any special bonuses for it.
It's just great for both beheadings & stakings.

How would you write up the BtVS Scythe?  Based, in part, on your Stake writeup I came up w/ this:
12pts - Scythe, [Axe] 1d6 K (Medium, Thr); plus Stake (1/2d6 K, 2d6 N)

Since I've only been into HERO for about a year, I suspect my version is over simplified.  Would you do it different?
Should the plus be changed to linked?

Maybe you could add it to your Buffy writeup on Surbrook's site. :)

Mark Rand

Jan 5th, '04, 08:47 AM

Hi, Nightfly. Glad you like the three Slayers. One good thing about them is that they're easily moved to whatever campaign city you're using.

I'm thinking of having them all be students at the high school on the Hellmouth and their Watcher become the school librarian. His, more or less, girlfriend is the school's computer science teacher. Of course, the Slayers will occasionally run into the so called Popular Crowd. (Can you tell that I was watching my first season Buffy DVDs last night?)

Although all Slayers are trained with stakes, crossbows, bladed weapons and other hand weapons, each uses what she likes.

The Japanese Slayer prefers her katana, using it either two-handed, for a beheading, or one-handed, with a stake in the left, to bring the vamp to his knees.

The Jamaican Slayer carries her own version of the scythe, a heavy axe with a stake-like point on the handle.

The white Slayer has a scythe like Buffy used.

I like your scythe writeup, Nightfly. Hopefully, the guy who made the Buffy writeup (not me) will add it to the page.

Mark Rand

Jan 5th, '04, 03:23 PM

Here are the names of the characters. The Slayers and their families have lived in the campaign city for, at least, three years.

Kendra Masters is a 16-year old Slayer. Born and bred in Jamacia, she came to the United States with her family when she was 10. She has braided, waist-length black hair and prefers battle axe with handle spike.

John Masters, M.D. and his wife, Sue, a nurse practitioner, tend the team's medical needs.
Keiko Namura is a 16-year old Slayer and ninja. She has shoulder-length black hair and bangs and wields a katana.

Midori Mamura, Keiko's mother, is a ninja, gymnastics coach who owns her own school and the team's trainer. She has waist-length black hair and wears glasses. Like her daughter, she likes the katana.
Hikaru Namura, Keiko's father, is a police detective.

Honey James is a 16-year old Slayer with golden blonde hair. Her favorite weapon is the scythe.

William James, PhD, Honey's father, is the principal of the school all three girls attend. For added zest, its on a Hellmouth.

Cathy James, Honey's mother, is a reporter for the local newspaper.

Tom Marshall is the school librarian and the Slayers' Watcher. Like Giles, he likes books and dislikes computers.

Connie Gray is the school's computer science teacher. She and Tom are dating.

Cameron Chase is a PRIMUS intelligence agent and liaison to the superhero team the Slayers are part of.

Roth

Jan 7th, '04, 06:13 AM

I've been reading the various Buffy Fan Fic at both the Fanfic.net site and at Twisting the Hellmouth, and it's got me to thinking. While I agree with Nightflyer about the whole Slayers joining the police force thing, that they woudn't, they might take the route of consultant. However the CSI crossovers were extremely well written, and it's your universe do what you want*G* It's up to you and your players to have fun. On the whole how much power would a slayer have inrelation to the Supers thing: Since the CU has pretty much stated that the Mana background is extremely high at the time when super powers are in play, that means supernatural creatures, like the slayer might also be more powerful in response to the increased Mana. Just something to think about, among others.

(Edit: Spelling Errors)

Mark Rand

Jan 7th, '04, 08:10 AM

actually, the Slayers wouldn't be PCs. They'd just be characters that the heroes would sometimes run into.

Mark Rand

Jan 8th, '04, 03:42 PM

We know, from the Buffy series that a Hellmouth is a weakening in the barrier between out reality and Hell. Does energy leak through the Hellmouth?

If so, is the leak steady or does it change from time to time?

Can someone that can sense magic sense a Hellmouth and its energy output, if any?

In a high mana world, like the CU, what effects would it have?

James Gillen

Jan 8th, '04, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Mark Rand
We know, from the Buffy series that a Hellmouth is a weakening in the barrier between out reality and Hell. Does energy leak through the Hellmouth?
If so, is the leak steady or does it change from time to time?
Can someone that can sense magic sense a Hellmouth and its energy output, if any?
In a high mana world, like the CU, what effects would it have?

As with any other aspect of magic in the Buffyverse, I'd say, "whatever the scriptwriter (GM) wants." In certain cases, the energy does increase; in "Prophecy Girl" (the final episode of Season 1) there were all kinds of weird effects mentioned as happening off-camera, not to mention the even greater concentration of vampires as the Master prepared to make his escape. Similarly, the flux of Hellmouth energy was a plot device in Season 7 as the gang had to find and deactivate the seal underneath the school.

As for how it would work in a high-mana universe, Hellmouth energy could allow for almost anything (and might explain why superpowers are possible at all). High mana might also be the difference between a "realistic" Buffy (with stats in the 20-23 range) and a truly super Buffy (who really IS 'Spider-Man strong').

JG

Mark Rand

Jan 10th, '04, 06:02 AM

The Slayer team I mentioned above would work in any campaign city, if it isn't Slayer Central and the location of Watcher Headquarters. Remember, the old headquarters, and its library, were destroyed by agents of The First. If it is, we have many Slayers there.

Some are teaching anti-vampire techniques to SWAT teams, some some teach at Slayer Centeral, some are on duty, with people from various agencies, at the airport, and one or two are interning with the local forensics experts. We have newly-discovered Slayers coming in and trained Slayers either returning home either to train furthur, if they're leas than 14-years old, or to help protect their city.

Buffy could take some with her to help deal with a major problem or some could work with the Initiative on missions. If we follow the Slayers / CSI storyline, Rona will be the one that works with the Finns and their team, as a consultant.

Mark Rand

Jan 13th, '04, 06:06 PM

You know me. I'm always adjusting my NPCs. Here are changes in the occupations of the Slayers' parents.

Honey's father, William, now teaches woodshop. At home, in his workshop, he makes stakes and replacement handles for Honey's scythe and Kendra's axe. Her mother, Cathy, is a chemistry teacher. When needed, she helps them with their spellcasting.

Keiko's mother, Midori, doesn't wear glasses. I mistook sunglasses for regular glasses.

Kendra's father, John, isn't a physician, he's the school principal. Her mother, Sue, is the school nurse.

The gang from CSI: Crime Scene Investigations, including the new sheriff and Lady Heather, are there. Gil Grissom and Lady Heather are often seen together at socal events

CarlSagan

Jan 13th, '04, 07:58 PM

SIgh...

Mark Rand did say that there were no Watchers in his universe.

Also, if the police, the courts, the Department of Defense, *insist* on something, it will be hard to not comply.

If a court *insists* that you pay a traffic ticket, you pay it or you don't drive.

Some supers think that this doesn't apply to them, but then I just play out the consequences for them. How would you like to have to fight a horde of agents (with radios, helicopters, other supers on call, etc., etc.) just because you made an illegal left turn? It can put a real spike in your day.

The Slayers could be vigilantes when they were underground and unknown. If you postulate that they are now widely known to law enforcement agencies, the vigilante approach will no longer be tenable. Most Slayers will understand this. They will also understand the benefits of cooperation.

A few will not, and they will have 50 point Hunteds.

Mark Rand

Jan 14th, '04, 04:16 AM

Good points, CarlSagan. Thank you.

Most of the old members of the Watchers Council were killed by The First, but a few probably survived. Buffy, Giles and their accociates are creating a new council.

Slayers that don't play by the rules are going to have Buffy and many Slayers after them, not to mention local, state and federal law enforcemenr agencies, including PRIMUS, the DOSPA, and the Initative.

Mark Rand

Jan 18th, '04, 01:12 PM

I enjoy crossover campaigns and one reason I like Las Vegas is the chance to add Tremors: the Series to the campaign.

According to the Scifi channel's website, Perfection is a few hours from the Nevada Test Site. Since its geography includes mountains, I'd put it in northern Nevada.

The people in Perfection are interesting. Here they are.

Tyler Reed: graboid tour operator and former NSACAR driver

W. D. Twitchell: annoying federal bureaucrat

Rosalita Sanchez: cattle rancher and former Las Vegas showgirl who grew up in Eas Los Angeles

Jodi Chang: shopkeeper

Nancy Sterngood: artisan, lover of solitude and open spaces and ex-hippie

Burt Gummer: survival expert and monster hunter

Melvin Plug: real-estate developer and rat

Harlow Winnemuca: Rosalita's hired hand

Dr. Casey Mathews: government scientist

Larry Norvel: hyperactive scifi fan

Sam Boggs: county sheriff

El Blanco: sterile white graboid

That's the lot. Except for the graboid sheet on Mike Surbrook's site, none have been written up. How many points would you give each character? How would you define Mix Master, the chemical, lining the valley floor, that can make DNA from various non-human speciea compatable?