If HERO didn't exist...

[zornwil]

and somehow (?) the whole course of gaming continued as it did, which system(s) do you think you'd be playing now?

I don't know if I'd end up with GURPS. I never actually have played it even now.

I think maybe some weird tweaked "D20", seriously. And if HERO never exsted but M&M somehow came forth (which I think not) I'd be pretty into it I bet, although I'd be tweaking the rules sort of crazily.

Or actually maybe I wouldn't be playing: before Champions I didn't know of any super-hero games and oddly enough hadn't even considered such a thing. My interest in RPGs was real but not wedded to any system although wedded to a few friends. After I moved I eventually met up with Champions players. Otherwise, though, I might not have stayed with RPGs - you see, super-heroism really is my favorite genre by far, and I wasn't interested in playing other genres (well, maybe besides futuristic apolypse stuff, which I wrote an RPG of my own for). Had I not realized Championx existed I probably wouldn't have considered picking up gaming again, maybe.

Well, maybe not. I do really like role-playing. In fact, this summer, while very busy with music which I love, I felt something lacking. It wasn't until our gaming group (divided by other summer diversions) got back together I realized it was RPGing.

Anyway, what think you re a HEROless world?

[McCoy]

While I've experimented with V&V and Superworld, neither really held my interest. Was heavly into a RuneQuest campagine before second edition Champions came along, may have continued that, or probably outgrown gaming.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by McCoy
While I've experimented with V&V and Superworld, neither really held my interest. Was heavly into a RuneQuest campagine before second edition Champions came along, may have continued that, or probably outgrown gaming.

"outgrown"

scary

[Victor]

Probably D&D 3.x, or the Traveller du jour (or any of them except [expletives deleted] TNE... the "Voyager" of Traveller).

I love the Shadowrun setting, but I hate the dice mechanics of the game (almost as much as those of Earthdawn), so I can't really see myself playing it on any regular basis. The magic system would be eviscerated with any other system, though.

[Lord Mhoram]

Likely SAS, MnM and/or some modified version of d20/D&D.

[misterdeath]

Did Champions never exist at all?

There wouldn't be d20 in the form we know it (move equivalent and attack actions are a distinct ... homage to Hero system. There are others.)

Gurps wouldn't exist in the form as we know it. IIRC they had a thanks to Champs in the beginning of one of their books.

Heck, who really knows how the gaming landscape would have changed without Champions.

classic MSH probably.

D

[lemming]

GURPS probably would of come into being without Hero. I don't know what shape the Superhero portion of it would of been like though.

The first RPG that I ran was The Fantasy Trip. Sort of a proto-GURPS.

So I'm pretty sure I would of contuined along when GURPS came about. That and the occasional Paranoia and would of been sucked into Deadlands.

[Fitz]

I'd be using d20 -- most likely Call of Cthulhu d20 -- as a base for pretty much everything. In my opinion, CoCd20 is what d20 *should* be; D&Dd20 is a looser straitjacket than its antecedents, but it's still too restrictive for my taste.

[austenandrews]

Probably RuneQuest and its cousins.

-AA

[Vondy]

I would have quit gaming altogether around the age of 20 if it weren't for champions.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by D-Man
I would have quit gaming altogether around the age of 20 if it weren't for champions.

And in my case, I probably wouldn't have gotten back into gaming -- or, I wouldn't have gotten back into pencil-and-paper gaming -- as I did in 1989 or 1990.

If I had somehow gotten into gaming again sans HERO? I'd probably be playing more d20 for one thing. I already play it more than I do any other non-HERO system. There's actually a debate amongst the gaming group whether to use HERO or a homebrew "d20 Modern with Sovereign Stone's magic system and our homebrew psionic system" for our next fantasy campaign.

There's also a pretty good chance I would have tried harder to stick with Alternity (AKA "What happens when you mix 2nd Edition D&D with HERO") -- but then, Alternity might not have developed the way it did without HERO so...

[Alcamtar]

Back in college I discovered Fantasy Hero, and then GURPS about a month later. I liked Hero better and left AD&D for it... but with no Hero, I would have gone to GURPS, no question.

I probably would still have switched over to Fudge and Savage Worlds when they came out, and still be playing them today, although SW would perhaps have been less attractive (it's powers system is very Hero-like). And who knows I might have become a tragic Aria diehard.

Actually, without 5th edition, and I wouldn't be playing Hero... Even if I had FRED but not Fantasy Hero 5th, I'm not sure I'd be playing it.

Mike

[The Mad GM]

I would have invested all the money I spent on six sided dice in dot coms and lost my shirt when it all collapsed.

Thanks, Hero!

But seriously, I would probably not be playing now. I might be playing d20, and I probably would have experimented with Deadlands for the novelty, but I wouldn't be gaming on any regular basis.

[TheImperialKhan]

99% of my gaming is the direct result of observing a game of Champions being played back in 1981 and talking to the GM afterwards. That man became my best friend and introduced me to a world of gaming that I didn't even know existed. Take away HERO and you take away that first contact. Then the whole thing collapses like a house of cards.

So to answer your question at best I would be playing the very occasional boardgame, but more likely I wouldn't be gaming at all.

[Mark Taylor]

I play and run mostly GURPS anyway (heresy! I hear you scream). I intend to run a HERO based campaign "sometime" but I have really no idea when I'll actually get around to it. There is no way I would not be gaming if one system or another hadn't existed, it's the concept of roleplaying that I'm hooked on, not any particular system. I've been hooked on it ever since the day I picked up a copy of GW's Judge Dredd RPG and started reading. My immediate reaction was not "I wanna play this" but "I wanna be the GM". I'm sure I would have got my introduction to roleplaying through some other avenue if JD hadn't existed. I'd have gravitated towards it with the inevitability of a moth towards a lightbulb. It just fits me. I was born to GM.

[Beetle]

Chalk up another vote for "would probably be stuck with GURPS." But I'd also be trying to find people for a ftf "Buffy" game. That system looks pretty interesting.

[WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Beetle
Chalk up another vote for "would probably be stuck with GURPS." But I'd also be trying to find people for a ftf "Buffy" game. That system looks pretty interesting.

"Buffy"? Tell me more..

[WhammeWhamme]

Oh, and as for me...

I'd be playing AD&D, or nothing. Thing is, I self taught from Hero books I bought cheap. Take away Hero, I'd never have seen a book with the cool Fantasy Hero cover, and RPing would have had to wait until someone else shoved me into it.

Since that would be Michael, a few years later, who likes AD&D...

[Edsel]

At the time 1st Ed Champions came out we were playing D&D (what other game system was there really?). Our group had been toying around with the Idea of adapting D&D to alow us to play a Marvel Superhero game. That really was proving to be an impossible feat so we undertook the design of our own game system.

When Champs came out one of us bought a copy and we loved it. We were amazed that our homebrew had some minor simularities to Hero. We droped our design asperations and embraced Hero system. I have always wondered what would have become of our early efforts if we hadn't discovered Hero.

If Hero never existed we'd have probably continued our efforts, so I might be playing it. I can't even remember if we'd come up with a name. Ah well, the road not taken...

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Edsel
At the time 1st Ed Champions came out we were playing D&D (what other game system was there really?). Our group had been toying around with the Idea of adapting D&D to alow us to play a Marvel Superhero game. That really was proving to be an impossible feat so we undertook the design of our own game system.

Kinda funny - we used the x-men as AD&D characters for a while. The fantasy trip was OK, but lacked the detail I wanted. Got into Rolemaster in the early 80s and still play it, even though we mainly do 3.5e D&D now (startting a champs campaign though). Probably that or Rolemaster (was working on RMSS Supers for a short time). Given the quantity of games I have, I'd probably be roaming more or making my own system without Hero.

[Beetle]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme
"Buffy"? Tell me more.. Eden Studios has come out with a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" RPG. The core book and it's supplements have been very high quality. The system seems to be light on number-crunching. The emphasis is keeping the tone of the series.

They also have an "Angel" came coming out soon.

[Curry Wolf]

In my less then humble opinion, GURPS would not be what it is wihtout Hero.

I remember when GURPS was in it's infancy back in the day, and Steve Jackson told me that he took several important ideas from Hero. Disadvantages are original to Hero.

I have been gaming for about 28 years, and I think that even Stroyteller would have never come about without Hero, nor many other systems we now play.

Being that I have been playtesting and developing gamws for most of my life, I think the idea of Hero never comming to pass is silly.

Something else would have come out which captured the same ideas, and similar combat.

I played a game called En-Garde which used a speed system not unlike Hero. Several game ideas scratched the surface of the ideas of points and disadvantages. Steve Jackson's Fantasy Trip had a point system, as did Supergame from Chaosium, developed from different origens.

Ironicly many of the developers of Hero, and many contributers would have put those ideas into other systems.

GURPS might have become Hero, based on having people like George, and Ray and Aaron working there magic for Steve Jackson in a different way. GAmes would have evolved differently.

A project from the south-west in the 80's calles Aeon might have made it, or that wierd french game of space exploration. Role Master probably would have been unchanged, and might have contributed to an eventual d20 as it exists today, or maby not.

Hero has been one of the cornerstones of modern gaming, even when the company was belly-up it had influence, and the writers were feeding themselves through other game projects.

Lords! Steve Long would have made some major contribution to gaming, and whatever he might have come up with that did not have Hero influencing his brain, would still have been mechanicly sound... Well one would hope.

The RPGs which existed before Hero influenced gaming were limited.

I thing Jeff Dee, and Jack Herman, and Bill Willingham would have worked woth Aaron Allston, Dennis Loubet, and maby even Steve Jackson on some kind of Superhero Game System eventually.

Nay! I say Hero would have come about even if George MacDonald had been slain by demons in 1978, and Steve Peterson had been eaten by a troll in 79'. Hero would be different, but Hero would be!

But if somehow a time manipulating villian had shattered all hope for Hero...

Well I played Top Secret with Randy Greer back when Hero was first comming out, and gamed a bit with Ray too... They had realy good ideas, and inspired a few friends...

I would probably have been in on the ground level of a game based on modern role play and espianoge, Ray probably would have been the major mechanical contributer, and Randy the source amterial guru. Maby when Randy and Ray went back to the Bay area they would have gamed with Greg Stafford and his cronies... so a modern game with extensive rules making it real, and a time impulse combat system, using % dice and a % skill system published by Chaosium, with universal appeal and a multy-genre structure...

I do belive a system like this came out in 81' which was not influenced by Hero. A Chaoseum system which was trying to have multiple genre compatability. Superworld!

Well that is my story, and I am sticking to it.

[Tech]

I'd be playing the Robotech RPG like I am now (just this Friday I GM'd one, which was a blast), although I'd have checked into Mutants & Masterminds or one of the other superhero games out there nowadays, I guess.

[Trencher]

I would have played old style dnd house ruled to the extreme.

[CourtFool]

G.U.R.P.S.

[TechnoViking]

Hero does not exist in Salt Lake City (or least I can not find a group to game with), so I'm playing HackMaster.

Mike

[DreadDomain]

I would have played GURPS and Runequest up until now and I would have just switched to Heroquest from Issaries.

Which is not too far off from real life. I have mainly played RQ between 87 and 91 than switched to Hero 4th. In 1995 we switched mainly to GURPS and switched back to Hero around 1999. Now, I really love Heroquest.

So main game played in real life :
Pre 87 - Pendragon
87 - 91 - Runequest
91 - 95 - Hero System
95 - 99 - Gurps
99 - 03 - Hero System
03 and + Hero System/Heroquest

Without Hero:
Pre 88 - Pendragon (easy and yet interesting game)
88 - 95 - Runequest( great game! It should have been updated)
95 - 03 - Gurps (Excellent for simulationist but somewhat clunky and unbalanced)
03 and + Heroquest (Great narrative game! A must try!)

[ZootSoot]

If there were no Hero I would be playing (not exclusively but primarily) CoC (and not that d20 bilge, CoC's original system is simpler, more intuitive and more flexible than d20; a d20 CoC is just pointlessly stupid) and Ars Magica.

[Badger]

Still looking for an rpg that I could really go with.

[Theron]

At the time I discovered HERO, I was playing V&V. In fact, my best friend was so ticked off about me wanting to try a new system, that he intentionally built his first Champions character as stupidly and ineffectively as possible (a copy of his V&V character built on 100 pts so he didn't have to take any disadvantages).

I agree that without HERO, GURPS would look a good deal different, if it existed at all. Superworld might not have happened either.

What would I be playing now? Hard to say. Apart from V&V, we were hard-core Chaosium fans, so RuneQuest, Stormbringer, and Call of Cthulhu are likely suspects.

[Wolf]

As I'm not too much of a supers gamer, I play mainly for the modern combat flexability of Hero. So I'd be stuck playing Palladum's Ninjas and Superspies to do my stuff. Thank you Hero.
-Wolf

[MoonHunter]

I started Champions in the Early 80s....

Would of continued with my Fantasy Trip campaigns and probably given GURPS a fairer shake than I did.

I would of kept playing Tri-Tac's Fringeworthy, Stalking the Night, and FTL. (Well I had to, I was working for the company). I would of finished the super powers rules I started for them, but were made irrelovent by Champions and SuperWorld. (The market was, to most people's opinions, flooded with super hero games at that time. )

I would of finished and published the roleplaying game desgin I was working on at the time. It was skuttled by the game company I was working with because of the popularity of Hero and Basic Roleplaying. It had similar themes to both. If Hero was not around, it would of been published and I would of been famous...

Hmmmm. Where is that time machine?

[death tribble]

Cthulhu and D+D.

Maybe Mutants and Masterminds or Silver Age Sentinals.